|
LvK posted:So, my buddies and I love watching cool wrestling, and we also love cohesive narratives, so tournaments own. All the King of Trios shows are great, though 2007 and 2008 are a little too long and 2008 has some iffy booking. In terms of a great narrative, watching 2010 and 2011 one after the other works really well. Plus 2011 has the 1-2-3 Kid during the one week in the last few years where he was in tip-top shape.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 06:03 |
|
|
# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:47 |
|
What's corrupt about boxing? Or, what's the proper thread to ask about corruption in boxing?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 06:06 |
|
Nostradingus posted:What's corrupt about boxing? You're better off asking either here or here short answer to ur q: everything
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 06:08 |
|
Halloween Jack posted:According to his interviews, the Ultimate Warrior "was sent in a capsule, from a place far from here." He claims that he was given the power of the Ultimate Warrior in "[his] final meeting with the gods from the heavens above." He's also said that he can "feel the power, floating through the veins, of the warriors," and that he "feel[s] the injection from the gods above," further implying that these mysterious gods are the source of his power. To date, Warrior's gods have yet to be implicated in any of the steroid scandals surrounding the WWF/WWE. The one thing this doesn't touch upon is The Sacrifice. He was big on making The Sacrifice, whatever it was, and it apparently involved airline pilots. Where do crashing airplanes come into this? And what does it have to do with the mysterious being called Ho Kogan?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 07:07 |
|
projecthalaxy posted:I thought it was really cool how they had a thing for like a month of Matt Hardy trying to cut to 220 so he could be in the Cruiserweight division in like 2005 or whatever. Or Commissioner Foley making Christian work off a few extra pounds by wearing Kurt Angle's chicken suit
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 11:14 |
|
I caught some of a TNA PPV last night (they're free in the UK - don't judge) and I noticed Bad Influence owe a LOT to the New Age Outlaws in terms of how they conduct themselves, particularly in cutting promos. A) Is this intentional? B) Were they doing it before the NOA started appearing so frequently recently?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 11:32 |
|
sticklefifer posted:The one thing this doesn't touch upon is The Sacrifice. He was big on making The Sacrifice, whatever it was, and it apparently involved airline pilots. Where do crashing airplanes come into this? And what does it have to do with the mysterious being called Ho Kogan? "The Sacrifice" is necessary for him to have teleporting powers, though he failed to complete the job on British Bulldog in WCW and thus was only able to teleport a relatively short distance.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 11:37 |
|
Halloween Jack posted:According to his interviews, the Ultimate Warrior "was sent in a capsule, from a place far from here." He claims that he was given the power of the Ultimate Warrior in "[his] final meeting with the gods from the heavens above." He's also said that he can "feel the power, floating through the veins, of the warriors," and that he "feel[s] the injection from the gods above," further implying that these mysterious gods are the source of his power. To date, Warrior's gods have yet to be implicated in any of the steroid scandals surrounding the WWF/WWE. This right here is the best thing I've ever read on SA. You are a prince. I hope you do this to every absurd thing you encounter in your life.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 12:12 |
|
Jerusalem posted:"The Sacrifice" is necessary for him to have teleporting powers, though he failed to complete the job on British Bulldog in WCW and thus was only able to teleport a relatively short distance. Then what about Santa?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 15:40 |
|
bobkatt013 posted:Then what about Santa? He has already made the Sacrifice.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 16:13 |
|
magnum_valentino posted:I caught some of a TNA PPV last night (they're free in the UK - don't judge) and I noticed Bad Influence owe a LOT to the New Age Outlaws in terms of how they conduct themselves, particularly in cutting promos. Bad Influence have been a team or a couple years now, so probably. And it wouldn't surprise me if it were intentional, the Outlaws were a fun team the first time around. Hell, I'm one of the few around here who likes having them back (although I agree with the sentiment that they probably shouldn't be tag champs at this point in their careers).
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 17:17 |
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:Bad Influence have been a team or a couple years now, so probably. And it wouldn't surprise me if it were intentional, the Outlaws were a fun team the first time around. Hell, I'm one of the few around here who likes having them back (although I agree with the sentiment that they probably shouldn't be tag champs at this point in their careers). If they were better in the ring (Such as not letting Cody die), and if they weren't champions, I wouldn't necessarily mind having them, especially since WWE seems to have decided that every tag team must dissolve except for the Usos. On the surface the NAO seems like it could be a fun little tag team to just have once in a while. However, they're pretty bad in the ring, and they're tag champs.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 18:15 |
|
To be fair, I'm not sure what the hell Road Dogg could have done better on that moonsault. He wasn't directly under him and Cody clearly wasn't looking where he was flipping. It was probably a miscommunication, but once Cody was going there wasn't much that was going to stop him (short of Billy being there too. Which would have been a real good idea, but I don't lay out matches).
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 18:28 |
|
Halloween Jack posted:According to his interviews, the Ultimate Warrior "was sent in a capsule, from a place far from here." He claims that he was given the power of the Ultimate Warrior in "[his] final meeting with the gods from the heavens above." He's also said that he can "feel the power, floating through the veins, of the warriors," and that he "feel[s] the injection from the gods above," further implying that these mysterious gods are the source of his power. To date, Warrior's gods have yet to be implicated in any of the steroid scandals surrounding the WWF/WWE. This is incredible. You're incredible. This is a better answer than I could have ever hoped for, thank you. Pinstripe Hourglass fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Feb 13, 2014 |
# ? Feb 13, 2014 20:58 |
|
Did Flair ever refuse to job the belt to anybody when he was NWA/WCW champ up through the mid 90s?
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:06 |
|
Bigass Moth posted:Did Flair ever refuse to job the belt to anybody when he was NWA/WCW champ up through the mid 90s? Yes in 1991 Jim Herd told Flair to drop the title to Luger. Flair said no he agreed to drop it to Sting, and then he offered Barry Windham. Herd said no, so Flair said gently caress you I am going to the WWF and taking the title with me.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:18 |
|
bobkatt013 posted:Yes in 1991 Jim Herd told Flair to drop the title to Luger. Flair said no he agreed to drop it to Sting, and then he offered Barry Windham. Herd said no, so Flair said gently caress you I am going to the WWF and taking the title with me. I think it was actually: Flair: gently caress you I'm going to WWF Herd: Then give me my belt back! Flair: Well I'm the one who paid the deposit on it, give me that money back and you can have your belt Herd: No, give me the belt AND I keep your money! Vince McMahon:
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:40 |
|
So why did Flair end up leaving WWF in just over a year? I have a hard time believing Vince really couldn't think of anything interesting to do with him.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:43 |
|
DeathChicken posted:So why did Flair end up leaving WWF in just over a year? I have a hard time believing Vince really couldn't think of anything interesting to do with him. I think it was that Flair was not being pushed as much as he wanted to be. Herd left and Flair needed the content humaliation that WCW would give him.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:44 |
|
DeathChicken posted:So why did Flair end up leaving WWF in just over a year? I have a hard time believing Vince really couldn't think of anything interesting to do with him. Flair was diagnosed with an inner ear disorder that was thought to be potentially career ending. Vince had him drop the belt to Bret right away and then when they learned that Flair's issue wasn't as serious as they first thought, they had already planned around him.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 21:55 |
|
I had heard that part of it was that Flair and McMahon had an agreement going in that if Flair didn't like how he was being booked, he was welcome to leave. After he dropped the title, he got tossed into the feud with Mr. Perfect that kept him out of the main event. Flair agreed to put Perfect over and left the company. I suspect Bob Backlund lasting from #2 to the end of the 93 Royal Rumble being a way to wipe away Flair's record in the same way they had Orton become champ just so Lesnar was no longer the youngest.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 22:00 |
|
I think the Flair/Hogan program not catching fire like they wanted had a part in him leaving as well. But basically the story goes that Flair & McMahon mutually agreed to let him leave the company, and he went back to WCW on good terms.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 22:04 |
|
bobkatt013 posted:Yes in 1991 Jim Herd told Flair to drop the title to Luger. Flair said no he agreed to drop it to Sting, and then he offered Barry Windham. Herd said no, so Flair said gently caress you I am going to the WWF and taking the title with me. You have your stories mixed up. Flair agreed to drop it to Sting for what became Sting's run in 1990 with the infamous Black Scorpion. Sting got injured and Herd started getting anxious and wanted Flair to drop it to Luger. Flair said no, I promised Sting I'd drop it to him, that's the plan, we're sticking to it. Flair also refused to drop the belt to Luger in the incident which led to Dusty getting fired and going to the WWF.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 22:19 |
|
Pinstripe Hourglass posted:This is incredible. You're incredible. This is a better answer than I could have ever hoped for, thank you.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:04 |
|
Wasn't Flair's thing that Vince just didn't want see him in the main event long-term? He got the Randy Savage/CM Punk spot in WWF, so he went back to WCW where he could be a top dog. Then Hogan came.Halloween Jack posted:You're welcome...but I'm still reviewing the primary sources. Later this evening I hope to be able to offer a brief exegesis on Warrior's obsession with his unseen rival, Ho Kogan. More hyped for this than Wrestlemania.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:12 |
|
Halloween Jack posted:
Endorph fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Feb 13, 2014 |
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:26 |
|
Just off the top of my head, that also qualifies him to be a Kryptonian, a Robeast, or H.P. Lovecraft's "The Colour Out of Space."
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:30 |
|
Perhaps he is some combination of all of those things, and that is what makes him the Ultimate Warrior.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:32 |
|
Endorph posted:So he's a saiyan? Prince Vegita by the sounds of it.
|
# ? Feb 13, 2014 23:40 |
|
Gonzo McFee posted:Prince Vegita by the sounds of it. An avatar of Khorne, the god of blood and skulls.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 00:46 |
|
Seems strange that Flair would drop the belt to Ronnie Garvin and KVE, but not Lex Luger.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 00:48 |
|
Bigass Moth posted:Seems strange that Flair would drop the belt to Ronnie Garvin and KVE, but not Lex Luger. Garvin was getting huge reactions and was mainly there so Flair could get a big win at Starrcade. Kerry was almost a must given the circumstances. Every time he was told to job to Luger it was for political/humiliation purposes so he knew better.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 00:51 |
|
Flair lasting a year was probably for the best. He always felt very alien in the WWF, since it was a very over the top, cartoonish company that was getting even more cartoonish.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 02:21 |
|
Flair doesn't work when he's cartoony because his personality is already so strong that you buy that he's Cokelord Bonerhitler IRL. He always fit in better in the southern style.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 02:25 |
|
Bigass Moth posted:Seems strange that Flair would drop the belt to Ronnie Garvin and KVE, but not Lex Luger. No one wanted to be a lame duck champion so they asked everyone until someone said yes. That person was Garvin.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 02:48 |
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Flair doesn't work when he's cartoony because his Fixed this for you.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 02:48 |
|
How close was Chyna to a World Championship run, if at all?
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 05:10 |
|
Well, she did get #30 in the 1999 Royal Rumble and she was in the 2000 Rumble as well. It's kind of a shame that WWE no longer acknowledges her existence (they even removed her co-title reign with Jericho,) when in a lot of ways Chyna was treated more progressively than Divas are today. I wonder how much of that can be attributed to her porn career rather than the influence of Stephanie and HHH.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 05:14 |
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:Which begs the question: How much of the that is Hellwig taking creative liberties and how much is Vince's coked up ramblings? Pope Corky the IX posted:Considering that Warrior has continued with his insane bullshit long after leaving WWF/E (WCW, his website, his speaking tours) I'm fairly certain it's the former. sticklefifer posted:The one thing this doesn't touch upon is The Sacrifice. He was big on making The Sacrifice, whatever it was, and it apparently involved airline pilots. Where do crashing airplanes come into this? And what does it have to do with the mysterious being called Ho Kogan? There's only one outside force that we can say, with absolute certainty, has influenced the Ultimate Warrior: a mysterious and yet-unseen entity named Ho Kogan. Like much else concerning the Warrior, all that we know of Ho Kogan comes from passing references and rambling accusations, often addressed to Ho Kogan himself. The reason for Warrior's animosity isn't certain, but in an early interview, Warrior claimed that his enemy "interfered with his pathways" and that he interrupted Warrior's attempt to "communicate with [his] warriors" and his "gods above." In the same interview he claimed that Ho Kogan "controlled a forcefield around" himself that was responsible for these disruptions. Essentially, Ho Kogan is central to the Ultimate Warrior's mythos not because of what Warrior has to say about him, but because while addressing him, Warrior reveals many insights into his own belief system. The vast majority of the Ultimate Warrior's diatribes against Ho Kogan appeared during the promotion of his career-defining match at Wrestlemania VI. In an interview with "Mean" Gene Okerlund on Saturday Night's Main Event, the Ultimate Warrior said that what passes between he and Ho Kogan was "already written a long time ago" by the "warriors who came before." He identifies Ho Kogan as a man surrounded by "walls built with fear" but that the Warrior "needs not [Ho Kogan's] protection." The Warrior then says that the "warriors that could not come have attached theirselves [sic] to the outer structure." Although the Warrior says this while gesturing towards Ultimate Warrior memorabilia decorating the walls, he goes on to say that the warriors are "seeping through," "feeding [him]," and "riding on [his] back." The Ultimate Warrior seems to believe that the warriors are familiar spirits which give him strength, which are disembodied and yet somehow attached to his body. This strikes me as very similar to the belief in "thetans" in Scientology, which is a fitting comparison, given that Warrior's belief system syncretizes science fiction and mythology. Later, in an appearance on The Arsenio Hall Show, the Ultimate Warrior insisted that he did not "disrespect" Ho Kogan, but that he must defeat him because "Ho Kogan is the greatest," implying a grudging respect for his enemy. He went on to say that the "power of the warriors flows through his veins." If the theory concerning the "warriors" being artificially enhanced soldiers of an alien race is correct, the Warrior may rationalize his enhancements as a gift from his familiar spirits. Warrior claimed that his warriors would "cling to the ceiling of the Skydome" during his upcoming championship match. The Ultimate Warrior also addressed the theme of sacrifice in an answer to Hall's question regarding how he should be addressed. He replied that "those who have made small sacrifices call him U.W.," but that those who have "made no sacrifices" must call him the Ultimate Warrior. However, Warrior did not insist on his convention within the World Wrestling Federation. The Ultimate Warrior often discussed "normals" and "normal people" in disparaging terms; perhaps he categorically accords a measure of respect to fellow professional wrestlers, even those for him he has expressed disgust (such as Rick Rude). In another promo addressed directly to Ho Kogan, the Ultimate Warrior states that "There were warriors that made similar sacrifices. Injected themselves with the poison of mankind, knowing that they would give it all! Everything they had! The armies that followed them, the believers with no film over their eyes; they believed, Ho Kogan, that the gods of one last battle was worth losing it all!" Again, the Warrior conflates the meme of intravenous injection with that of totemic spiritualism. He refers to the "pack of warriors that rides [his] back," raising connotations of intravenous drug addiction. The Ultimate Warrior continues his challenge to Hogan by stating, "The deeper I went in to the darkness, the closer I came to the light, and in that light, Ho Kogan, there was a shadow. A man that had walls; walls in himself, not willing to give it all! Ho Kogan, I am reality. I am the frustration that your mankind has swept under the carpet for years...but Ho Kogan, I have creeped [sic] out like a slime." Although it appears that Warrior employs a mixed metaphor, references to light, shadow, creeping slime, and contempt for humanity, along with his claim to have arrived on Earth from a "capsule" from "parts unknown" reminds one of the pernicious cosmic entity in H.P. Lovecraft's short story "The Colour Out of Space." In any case, it appears that the Ultimate Warrior acknowledges and respects Ho Kogan's power, but considers him self-deluded and cowardly. He promised to present Ho Kogan "the ultimate challenge, the ultimate reality." Shortly before this "challenge," the Ultimate Warrior had announced his intention to abduct Ho Kogan by seizing control of his private plane and murdering his pilots, intending to abduct Ho Kogan to "Parts Unknown." As Warrior references his own ostensible point of origin, Warrior may have been planning to subject Ho Kogan to a final reckoning with his "gods." The Ultimate Warrior's match at Wrestlemania VI occurred without incident, and he defeated Hulk Hogan to unify his Intercontinental Championship with the WWF World Heavyweight Championship. There was no evident confrontation with Ho Kogan, and references to him thereafter became rare. If Ho Kogan only existed as a delusion suffered by the Ultimate Warrior, it's likely that winning the World Heavyweight Championship alleviated the Warrior's psychological stress, and that he successfully confronted Ho Kogan as part of an internal experience. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Feb 14, 2014 |
# ? Feb 14, 2014 05:41 |
|
|
# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:47 |
|
Halloween Jack posted:There was no evident confrontation with Ho Kogan, and references to him thereafter became rare. If Ho Kogan only existed as a delusion suffered by the Ultimate Warrior, it's likely that winning the World Heavyweight Championship alleviated the Warrior's psychological stress, and that he successfully confronted Ho Kogan as part of an internal experience. If only watching two guys bite each other's tongues and tell jokes could have translated to buyrates on PPV Wonderful write-up, thank you.
|
# ? Feb 14, 2014 05:47 |