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I guess you don't jump around a lot in that game, then?
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Feb 13, 2014 17:12
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The real roguelikes for real roguelike enthusiasts are in a different tag.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:46
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ProfessorProf posted:The real roguelikes for real roguelike enthusiasts are in a different tag. Pacman, the original roguelike. 
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Feb 13, 2014 18:48
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Levitate posted:I keep having trouble with Shadows and other invisible type monsters as I get further in Sil...any tips on how to deal with them? It seems like if you don't find a helm of true site or a spiffy lantern that shows invisible monsters, you're pretty much completely hosed That's what perception is for! Also, there is a very early ability in the perception tree that gives +5 to detect unseen (as well as the useful ability to see enemies just outside of light range). With just 3 or 4 points in perception and that ability, you'll be able to see invisible monsters about half the time, even without true sight.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:49
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Levitate posted:I keep having trouble with Shadows and other invisible type monsters as I get further in Sil...any tips on how to deal with them? It seems like if you don't find a helm of true site or a spiffy lantern that shows invisible monsters, you're pretty much completely hosed Inner Light and the Song of the Trees are the way to go if you're short on strong sources of light and need to see through darkness. The detect unseen ability can be useful, but it just helps you see invisible monsters, not to illuminate shadows. Straight-up perception helps there too, and I would boost perception over taking detect unseen because of how strong most of the other perception abilities are. edit: oh, you can also drop a second lantern to make more light, I usually carry around an extra lamp/jewel to throw at the darkness when I expect it to be strong. EAT THE EGGS RICOLA fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 19:27
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Keen senses is fantastic for its other effect - letting you see 1 square outside your light zone. It's especially useful in the early game to stop you blundering into violet molds when you only have a 1 tile buffer. I don't take it for the invis. detection though it does help there too. But yeah, worth considering you aren't going to see that shadow regardless unless you can illuminate it.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:41
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Potsticker posted:So, the 7DRL for this year is coming in about a month. (The week of March 8th to March 16th) Time to start coming up with a better plan than last year! Here's an idea I had (wish I had time to learn python to participate) A maze roguelike. You start on the outside of a spiral maze and need to grab an amulet from the center and then escape. The maze would have tougher enemies closer to the center of course. You would also be equipped with a flashlight as the maze would be dark, thus often taking you to dead ends. Perhaps to progress inward in the maze you would have to unlock doors to promote exploration. I was thinking of doing this instead of the usual floors would be an interesting twist.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:34
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Harminoff posted:A maze roguelike. No one likes maze levels in Roguelikes. Magic mapping is generally considered a must when doing maze levels in roguelikes that have them.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:40
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Most people find straightforward mazes boring and tedious to navigate so hopefully your combat is interesting and takes advantage of positioning and the tight, twisting passages of the maze. Even with something as simple as ranged combat, greater miss chances the more dark a target square is, and enemies that do more than just seek the player and I can see it working.
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Feb 14, 2014 04:43
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Geokinesis posted:Has anyone been following the development of Sunless Sea? It is a proper game from the creators of the browser game Fallen London and has a successful kickstarter (with enough to reach the stretch goal of a submarine DLC): I backed that but standard kickstarting operating procedure for me is to forget it even exists until it's out so I don't kill myself waiting for it to come out. In other kickstarter roguelikelike news, Darkest Dungeon looks loving amazing.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:00
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Eonwe posted:Pacman, the original roguelike. It is certainly fair to call Pacman a death labyrinth. Someone should make a Pacman roguelike for 7DRL. Fake Edit: Oh, poo poo, Toe Jam and Earl is on Steam?
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Feb 14, 2014 05:07
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DalaranJ posted:It is certainly fair to call Pacman a death labyrinth. Someone should make a Pacman roguelike for 7DRL. Somebody did make what was a Pac-Man roguelike, but I can't remember what it was called. Edit: vvvv It's NetPac I was thinking of. Dr. Dos fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 05:22
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DalaranJ posted:It is certainly fair to call Pacman a death labyrinth. Someone should make a Pacman roguelike for 7DRL. Is there a random maps mode for the fancy version of PacMan? If not, that really does sound fun.
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Feb 14, 2014 05:23
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Dr. Dos posted:Somebody did make what was a Pac-Man roguelike, but I can't remember what it was called. You're thinking of forget-me-not!
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Feb 14, 2014 05:28
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Airport Simulator 2014 shows up for me as a Procedural Death Labyrinth
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Feb 14, 2014 05:31
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No he's thinking of NetPac
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Feb 14, 2014 05:32
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Anyone try Endless Nights on android? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nationssoftware.EndlessNights&hl=en
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Feb 14, 2014 06:36
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Harminoff posted:Here's an idea I had (wish I had time to learn python to participate) edit: now I'm thinking I kind of want to play Nethack again, but that I'm spoiled to modern conveniences like "auto-explore" and "not having a key to wipe your face." Is there a version that's the original game but with a slightly less prehistoric UI? deptstoremook fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 06:54
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When I say maze I wasn't really meaning a giant labyrinth like that. Something simpl like this x10 with some paths having locked doors.
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Feb 14, 2014 07:51
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deptstoremook posted:edit: now I'm thinking I kind of want to play Nethack again, but that I'm spoiled to modern conveniences like "auto-explore" and "not having a key to wipe your face." Is there a version that's the original game but with a slightly less prehistoric UI? There are versions of nethack with different UIs, but to my knowledge none have auto-explore, since nethack does not have enormous levels full of nothing nor multiple staircases, so a function like that would probably get you hungry, cornered and killed. Vanilla has fast travel, its only real deficiency is that it only works across a single level. Also, it's adom that has a wipe face button. You might want to consider a patch that replaces the tedious gehenom levels though (lethe does a decent job there).
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Feb 14, 2014 08:29
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Harminoff posted:When I say maze I wasn't really meaning a giant labyrinth like that. Something simpl like this x10 with some paths having locked doors. Mazes can be a little dangerous from a game design perspective--it's real easy for them to add a lot of frustration and complexity to a game without actually upping the number of meaningful choices available to the player. Going down a bunch of dead end passages that you have no way of anticipating is really just game busywork--a mindless/skill-less activity that just bogs down gameplay. Of course, there are a lot of ways to make mazes more interesting. All roguelikes are mazes, pretty much, but they tend to make sure that every part of the map is interesting at least in some small way by making it have (the capacity for) treasure, but also making excessive exploration a drain on valuable resources (the food clock, getting into unneeded fights). You could probably make a roguelike entirely made up of hallways that'd still play more or less like most other roguelikes but would feel like the type of maze you're talking about. If you're going to do something like this, though, it seems like you really ought to be asking yourself at every possible stage "How can I use the maze-ness of this map layout to up the number of meaningful choices the player gets to make?" Exploration is most fun when there's an element of active prediction worked into it--how will you make sure that the player can always have some sort of ability to predict what the most desirable path is going to be and how will you reward them for predicting correctly? I think there's a bunch of cool stuff you could do with this. People already brought up how having the entire game in narrow halls could make for some interesting tactical mechanics, but you could also do a lot with limited resources that make a map more readable--string that can mark the path you've taken even when it's outside your torch-light, or an amulet that glows harder the closer you are to the exit, or a wand that blows down walls all become a lot of fun in a tense maze environment. If you just make it Rogue with a gently caress-you map layout it's going to probably disappoint you, though.
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Feb 14, 2014 08:56
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I didn't manage to finish my bakery roguelike last year so this year I might take a week off work to do something which I have already started planning. Is anyone else here planning on doing anything?
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Feb 14, 2014 12:26
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A LOVELY LAD posted:I didn't manage to finish my bakery roguelike last year so this year I might take a week off work to do something which I have already started planning. Is anyone else here planning on doing anything? Tentatively doing a game where you have to eat a procedurally generated 15 course meal without exploding or throwing up, carefully balancing your resources (sparkling water, wine, cocktails, bathroom breaks, napkin cleanliness) to make sure that you're just drunk enough to eat that rough 13th course of pig eyes.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:40
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Harminoff posted:When I say maze I wasn't really meaning a giant labyrinth like that. Something simpl like this x10 with some paths having locked doors. I wouldn't bother, 2d mazes are trivially solved by the left hand rule so at that point you may as well just make it a straight line of appropriate length and stick encounters along the way.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:44
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A LOVELY LAD posted:I didn't manage to finish my bakery roguelike last year so this year I might take a week off work to do something which I have already started planning. Is anyone else here planning on doing anything? OtspIII posted:Going down a bunch of dead end passages that you have no way of anticipating is really just game busywork--a mindless/skill-less activity that just bogs down gameplay. Eschalon III is out It's not an RL but it's full of things we love about them, surely some of you have played I and II, the last of the trilogy dropped today. http://www.gog.com/game/eschalon_book_iii I've been stoked for this one, but who ships a game on Valentine's Day?
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Feb 14, 2014 15:00
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madjackmcmad posted:Eschalon III is out I've played through Books I & II after a Finnish games magazine praised 'em, looking forward to finishing the trilogy. They're difficult to recommend to most people though, you do need to have a certain fondness for real old-school RPGs to enjoy the series. Still, considering how most people have never even heard of the name they're pretty underrated. Also it's not that bad a time to release it since the sale is undoubtedly giving GOG extra traffic and it's on the front page.
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Feb 14, 2014 15:12
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madjackmcmad posted:It can be, or it can be FTL, where you are flipping cards off a deck for encounters that you have no way of anticipating but still everyone has a good time. What sucks about dead-ends is the travel time: going there, seeing nothing, and going back. Even if there's a fight, it's still surrounded by boring. Cut out the travel time and you just have encounter after encounter, even if one ends with "Turn back to page 42 and choose a different doorway" I don't really see that as a great comparison - in FTL you know where the 'goal' is and you can tell if a jump is going to take you further towards that goal or not. The encroaching rebel fleet serves as a soft time limit that encourages you to progress forward, so the player has to make choices between staying ahead while they are safe or lingering to explore every nook and cranny under the threat of confrontation. Specific encounters may not be predictable, but the player is still making a deliberate choice with every jump they do. If you can't tell ahead of time what effects taking a certain path in the maze might have over the other paths, then the player doesn't have the ability to weigh decisions and it becomes a retelling of My First Dungeonmastering Experience - confusion and apathy all around. That isn't to say that a maze layout can't be done - but just by itself, without any new mechanics to add decision making, there wouldn't be any real point to it and it lacks verisimilitude over the dungeons of Crawl or Sil. MrBims fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 15:28
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Tentatively doing a game where you have to eat a procedurally generated 15 course meal without exploding or throwing up, carefully balancing your resources (sparkling water, wine, cocktails, bathroom breaks, napkin cleanliness) to make sure that you're just drunk enough to eat that rough 13th course of pig eyes. I actually know a team of people currently working on a roguelike based on The Magic Porridge Pot in which there are no enemies but everything's based around eating your way through the ocean of porridge that surrounds you.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:10
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Potsticker posted:Most people find straightforward mazes boring and tedious to navigate so hopefully your combat is interesting and takes advantage of positioning and the tight, twisting passages of the maze. I think a lot of the hatred of maze levels in roguelikes comes from Gehennom in Nethack, where there are just tons and tons of nearly-identical maze levels. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the idea of a maze level in a roguelike, but at the same time I think anybody who wants to add mazes to their game needs to take a serious look at what people don't like about Gehennom and try to avoid all of that.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:15
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Couple commercial roguelikes (or borderline hybrid ones at least) in bundles. Bionic Dues is in the latest groupees bundle - Steampunk 2. It's a 1$ minimum. Redshirts is in Be Mine 11.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:18
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Mazes are just things players disilke in general that programmers think will help make their qame more interesting. Interactive Fiction (Like Zork) dev groups have this same converasation a lot too, and you can get some insidious mazes when its just text descriptions. Having a game that's a straight line of encounters isn't a bad design, as long as your battles aren't Dragon Quest style choose "fight" a million times. You need some sort of interesting player choice. That Adventuring Company game used picking a different party member for each attack to make it interesting. If it done away with the random board tapping and restored armor values after each fight I think it would work fine for a no-movement sort of roguelike. Personally, it looks like this year I will not be making a lovely android game for my 7DRL. A college buddy cum coworker has convinced me to team up for this year's event. He's a much better programmer and we've done things like the Global Game Jam a couple of times before, so this year hopefully I won't end up with an unfinished mess. Just have to keep reminding ourselves its the 7DRL and not the 7 Month Roguelike.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:31
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I'd be okay with a maze roguelike that had a geomancer protagonist. Run into a dead end? Disintegrate the wall! Got an inconvenient grouping of walls and foes? Rotate that part of the maze! Also perhaps if you stay on a level (e: or stand still) long enough you get a sense of the layout in addition to the map you can find if you're lucky. Wouldn't guarantee it was actually any good but it would at least be a fair way to introduce meaningful choices to the maze exploration.
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Feb 15, 2014 15:51
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Unormal posted:It's happening. (Joppa loaded from actual CoQ data files, but upside down because Y is reversed in Sproggiwood) Out of curiosity, does CoQ take place in Maryland?
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Feb 15, 2014 19:54
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MacGyvers_Mullet posted:Out of curiosity, does CoQ take place in Maryland? Hah, no. Joppa is a latinization of a very old city name Ἰόππη, which appears in a bunch of places in the world; though the most famous (and I believe the originator of the name that the rest of them copycat, though I'm not a crytocivicetymoligist) is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa
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Feb 15, 2014 20:23
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Unormal posted:Hah, no. Joppa is a latinization of a very old city name Ἰόππη, which appears in a bunch of places in the world; though the most famous (and I believe the originator of the name that the rest of them copycat, though I'm not a crytocivicetymoligist) is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa Without asking you to actually give it away (unless you want to), is CoQ set in a specific part of the present-day Earth and are there enough hints to work out where it is? Or is it more of a "the continents have cracked and shifted and nothing is recognizable any more" kind of deal?
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Feb 15, 2014 21:38
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Without asking you to actually give it away (unless you want to), is CoQ set in a specific part of the present-day Earth and are there enough hints to work out where it is? Or is it more of a "the continents have cracked and shifted and nothing is recognizable any more" kind of deal? Well yes and no; we have a reasonably developed backstory for the world and a good idea in-general for where it's set, and a set of rationale for why the environment is the way it is, and how it relates to the current world; but it's a vast amount of time in the future, so it's not anything directly corollary like Wacky Adventures in Apoclyptic Suburban NewJersy with Guido the Turtleboy. We always loved a lot of gamma world, but never the specific so-close-to-apocalypse-youre-adventuring-in-your-local-mall-plus-mutants setting elaboration; so this was, essentailly, an attempt to fuse the good (as defined by us) subset of Gamma World with a lot of other influences into an original work. Unormal fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 21:44
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Unormal posted:Well yes and no; we have a reasonably developed backstory for the world and a good idea in-general for where it's set, and a set of rationale for why the environment is the way it is, and how it relates to the current world; but it's a vast amount of time in the future, so it's not anything directly corollary like Wacky Adventures in Apoclyptic Suburban NewJersy with Guido the Turtleboy. We always loved a lot of gamma world, but never the specific so-close-to-apocalypse-youre-adventuring-in-your-local-mall-plus-mutants setting elaboration; so this was, essentailly, an attempt to fuse the good (as defined by us) subset of Gamma World with a lot of other influences into an original work. Are you ever going to make any of that info available to players?
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Feb 15, 2014 21:55
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Unormal posted:Well yes and no; we have a reasonably developed backstory for the world and a good idea in-general for where it's set, and a set of rationale for why the environment is the way it is, and how it relates to the current world; but it's a vast amount of time in the future, so it's not anything directly corollary like Wacky Adventures in Apoclyptic Suburban NewJersy with Guido the Turtleboy. I was thinking more Book of the New Sun "Nessus is Rio de Janeiro and the painting Severian can't make sense of is an astronaut" but yeah, I see where you're coming from.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:06
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andrew smash posted:Are you ever going to make any of that info available to players? Well, as parts of games, certainly. There are still a lot of stories we'd like to tell in the setting. We even had the start of a pen-and-paper RPG supplement years ago; but for now, while we're still interested in doing things in the setting, we're going to keep the source material close to the vest. We have a ton of material sitting around that ranges from pretty awesome to very embarrassing, and it'd be fun to just throw up an archive one day in the twilight years. Here's something from the embarrassing camp. 
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Feb 15, 2014 22:10
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Less embarrassing:
Unormal fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 04:03
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