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It's important to note that I'm fairly sure 13A as it stands does not have the D&D problem with casters and fighters. I haven't dived into the math because I do not do math for fun, but the only "fix" barbarian would need is going for a different yet similar (or refluffed) class because you want more varied abilities in combat, rather then any sort of inherent weakness.
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Feb 11, 2014 01:49
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waderockett posted:Or the Stalwart?
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Feb 11, 2014 01:51
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lenoon posted:What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. Am I better off leaving it as it is in the book, giving them the ability to inflict status conditions (weakened, stuck, etc etc) as I've jury rigged it now, or doing something more radical? The Fury sets out to be a much more interesting and involved barbarian. I've not actually seen it in action, but I've read the page for it over like three or four times and it at least looks pretty interesting. It's not quite done yet so certain things might be a bit off, but there's no harm in trying it!
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Feb 11, 2014 02:22
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I'm preempting something that may not be a problem, tbh. In terms of 'fixing' I meant addressing the martial<magic imbalance. Edit: I guess my issue is that while I'm slowly becoming a much more confident GM, my major problem is worrying that players find the mechanics fun as even with my extremely fast and loose GM style, I'm not yet confident to completely rework the mechanics in a way I'm happy with. If that makes sense. Edit 2: thanks for the seeker and fury links! lenoon fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 09:14
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waderockett posted:In my experience GMing, barbarians are insanely fun. They're a mechanically simple class that deals scary amounts of damage to enemies. It's only if your player thinks mechanically simple classes are boring that you'll have an issue. If that's the case, maybe they should take the fighter for a spin. Or the Stalwart? Hey Wade! Just making sure that you got my last PM, haven't heard a response back. So my new 13th Age campaign started the other day, though it ran super short because it turned out one of my players showed up late and hadn't actually created her drat character so the 5 hours we had set aside to play turned into 1.5. The concept pitch for the campaign is that of a dark fairytale - Grimm without the happy endings. I'm taking notes from the works of Tad Williams and George R. R. Martin, and the main focus is on choices and sacrifice rather than combat. The characters are all members of the Court of the Giantkiller, one of the icons of the setting. When he dies later on they're actually inheriting the court as regents for the princess and collectively becoming the icon. Our heroes consist of:
Apart from the shenanigans my Ranger's player is pulling, I'm pretty happy with the group. SageNytell fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 16:45
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A problem with barbarian is there's no way to increase its complexity. It's nice and simple for players starting out, but as it levels up, it stays exactly that simple even as its player gets more experienced. I mean one of its champion moves is literally just a +2 to MD. In what way is that interesting, mechanically or fictionally?
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Feb 11, 2014 17:52
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That makes me think it would have been better for the class to be designed with different complexities at different tiers for beginners. Adventure tier would be the basic barbarian of hit things and they die, champion tier you start getting alternate combat options, Epic it goes full on rogue. But I am no good at designing such things so I have no idea how possible that is.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:58
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Well, all classes do that in a way, because you're picking between more moves and feats. As a rogue, I'm still using some level 1 abilities (Roll with it pairs well with a sash of suppleness, for example, to let you soak 32 damage without losing momentum.) The barb does seem simple on the ground but that's how design goes. There's no reason you can't port a character over to a fury, a savant or a fighter between sessions.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:51
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Or steal the Ranger talent that lets you spelljack sorcerer-powers and become a Barborcerer.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:05
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Rhinoceraptor posted:Or steal the Ranger talent that lets you spelljack sorcerer-powers and become a Barborcerer. That's the one! Appreciated.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:39
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It's what I did with my character to make playing her more interesting. It even came with a little side-plot to explain ho why she can use magic all of a sudden. I also just remembered that Public Opinion made a couple of homebrew Barb abilities a little while ago. PublicOpinion posted:In the further vein of complicated Barbarians, I threw these talents together. I tried to keep them generally in line with the normal talents and each option within the talent generally in line with each other, but it's late and I'd like some feedback on whether or not I accomplished that. I also tried to get each one to encourage a specific playstyle (Hotblooded being to get stuck in with as many foes as possible, Stormlord to leap around like a pinball).
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Feb 12, 2014 04:00
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's important to note that I'm fairly sure 13A as it stands does not have the D&D problem with casters and fighters. I haven't dived into the math because I do not do math for fun, but the only "fix" barbarian would need is going for a different yet similar (or refluffed) class because you want more varied abilities in combat, rather then any sort of inherent weakness. It kinda does in the sense that daily/recharge abilities are usually more valuable than not-daily/recharge abilities, and casters get more and better ones as levels go on so, yeah. I haven't had a major issue with it so far in the games I ran and played in (been running/playing for a party up to level 3 so far so grain of salt and whatnot) and I've seen nearly all casting and non-casting classes in action, but I can see that being a problem on the horizon when they have more slots for 'em and they're better. The primary thing I've noted that's a little iffy so far is that martial classes don't have anything the equivalent of rituals which is pretty lame because rituals are awesome and everyone should have access to them. Rhinoceraptor posted:It's what I did with my character to make playing her more interesting. It even came with a little side-plot to explain ho why she can use magic all of a sudden. As much as I like talents conceptually as a modular building block, what I would really like for the less complicated classes (ranger, paladin, barbarian) would be an optional replacement of their "signature" ability (rage, smite) with a slightly more involved ability set a la rogue powers or at the very least fighter maneuvers. I don't know how you'd swing something like that with the ranger though because for some reason rangers don't get a non-talent class feature - maybe make a talent that's exclusive with the double ___ attack ones?
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Feb 12, 2014 20:55
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I'm just wondering if someone could explain something to me. Earlier in the thread, I remember someone saying that spellcasters are more likely to hit and martial characters do more damage when they do hit. I'm just wondering if someone could explain that or link me to somewhere where that is explained. It's just because that became a sticking point for one of my players --who was playing a Fighter--who felt the Wizard was doing more damage and hitting more often than he was in the last game of 13th Age I ran. I'm pretty sure that it was my fault for not realizing something about the system at the time. Which is why I'm asking if someone could explain this to me so that I don't make the mistake again for the new game I'm going to run.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:44
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It's just common sense: weapon damage rolls get multiplied at higher levels. Spells don't, but thy always target PD or MD.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:51
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Captain Walker posted:It's just common sense: weapon damage rolls get multiplied at higher levels. Spells don't, but thy always target PD or MD. That being said, there are many ways that a spellcaster can bring out the big damage, especially at the high end. Just less frequently, as many of those spells are daily or recharge-based, whereas a martial character can always swing a huge sword. Also, it balances out a bit, with the escalation die.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:53
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Captain Walker posted:It's just common sense: weapon damage rolls get multiplied at higher levels. Spells don't, but thy always target PD or MD. If it really is just that simple, it must have been something with my encounter design, the way he built his character, or he just rolled poorly alot. Either way, it's been too long for me to remember those details so guess I'll just run it as I did last time and adjust my encounter design if I get those complaints again.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:05
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My game went on hiatus a little while after the organised play program was ramping up. Since then I had some adventures emailed to me that I neglected to download before they were auto-filtered away forever. Does anyone know a place I can get a hold of them? I don't do the whole organised play thing, but I enjoy the adventure ideas.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:11
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Roach Warehouse posted:My game went on hiatus a little while after the organised play program was ramping up. Since then I had some adventures emailed to me that I neglected to download before they were auto-filtered away forever. Does anyone know a place I can get a hold of them? I don't do the whole organised play thing, but I enjoy the adventure ideas. Email ash.law@fireopalmedia.com and tell him this. He can resend you links to the adventures.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:15
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I picked up Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds with some of the money from my tax return, and it's good. Super good. It inspired me to make this, plus some magic items that I'll be sharing once the list is complete. 13th Age Zelda Races Let me know what you guys think!
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Feb 16, 2014 22:36
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-Fish- posted:I picked up Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds with some of the money from my tax return, and it's good. Super good. Well, it's pretty clear that Dekus are the best of all possible Rangers. I like where this is going, but a few suggestions: For races that have attacks associated with their racial powers, you should clarify whether or not they deal miss damage. The Kokori will essentially never die. That's not a major problem, after all, neither do Forgeborn in the core rulebook. But it's something to note. I'm a little iffy about the weird gender restrictions on the Gerudo. I know it's thematic, but it still doesn't sit right with me. Other than a few other minor formatting/terminology things (I believe something refers to a swift action, which should probably be quick action) it looks pretty decent.
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Feb 16, 2014 23:28
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The formatting does need some cleanup, I mostly posted it to make sure nothing broken slipped I'm before I went to make the words good and pretty. and I'm not married to the gender restriction thing. Final draft will probably list it as optional, if it's listed at all.
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Feb 16, 2014 23:59
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I thought that the fanon held that Ganondorf was a Gerudo in a female-dominated society, hence rise to evil.
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Feb 17, 2014 03:18
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Quite the opposite. There's only one male born every hundred years to the Gerudo, and when one is born he's crowned and raised as their king. Ganondorf is evil because he is the literal reincarnation of the being of original, pure evil.
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Feb 17, 2014 03:54
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13A also already provides a mechanism for being that one unique male Gerudo if you want to be that most specialist of lore-breaking snowflakes.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:39
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The neat thing is, "I am the one male Gerudo of this century" and "I am the second male Gerudo of this century" would both make great OUTs.
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Feb 17, 2014 05:50
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Captain Walker posted:I thought that the fanon held that Ganondorf was a Gerudo in a female-dominated society, hence rise to evil. Looks like someone didn't talk to all of the gossip stones. 
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Feb 17, 2014 06:31
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Updated the Deku to no longer be the only choice for a Ranger ever.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:28
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-Fish- posted:Updated the Deku to no longer be the only choice for a Ranger ever. Also I thought maybe you could make the seed shooting their racial power? Like Zora and Goron's also have natural weapons but they don't them usable in place of normal weapons so you might as well just make it an attacking racial power similar to the Dragonborn/whatever's Breath weapons. I should read the update before typing!
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Feb 17, 2014 07:32
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Heavy Zed posted:Looks like someone didn't talk to all of the gossip stones. The what now? Those guys that tell the time? In other news I haven't seen Blade Runner and don't remember how Episode VI ends.
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Feb 17, 2014 07:52
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Captain Walker posted:The what now? Those guys that tell the time? If you wear the mask you gain access to at the end of the Mask Salesman quest line, they'll tell you gossip and poo poo.
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Feb 17, 2014 08:08
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djw175 posted:A problem with barbarian is there's no way to increase its complexity. It's nice and simple for players starting out, but as it levels up, it stays exactly that simple even as its player gets more experienced. I mean one of its champion moves is literally just a +2 to MD. In what way is that interesting, mechanically or fictionally? There's a fallacy here - "mechanically simple classes are only used by inexperienced players". In my 4e game I have players with years of D&D experience playing classes like the Essentials Thief because it's simple and powerful in play. Which is a lot like a barbarian in 13th Age. I've played D&D games for a very long time and would have no problem playing a barbarian - class complexity does not equal fun for me, especially since most class complexity in RPGs is just class simplicity plus a lot of trap choices. All that said, I wouldn't have a problem with a class that is specifically designed to be for new players. Make it a bit overpowered so the player can gently caress up a lot and still "win", have it introduce a new game mechanic every level, have it dabble in most niches in the game so the player can find out what they like to do in the game... Gort fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Feb 18, 2014 15:08
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It looks like Kobold Press has just released an edition of Midgar's bestiary for 13th Age. Never heard of the Midgar campaign setting before, but it might be interesting for those who like bestiaries.
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Feb 18, 2014 18:37
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It says each monster entry has a related magic item... is this worth it for someone mainly interested in new treasure, races and icons?
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Feb 18, 2014 19:48
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Gort posted:There's a fallacy here - "mechanically simple classes are only used by inexperienced players". In my 4e game I have players with years of D&D experience playing classes like the Essentials Thief because it's simple and powerful in play. My wife is this player. She loved the Hexblade and Vampire and other e-classes, loves the Barbarian and the Ranger. Not having a lot of options is very relaxing and fun for her.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:03
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-Fish- posted:My wife is this player. She loved the Hexblade and Vampire and other e-classes, loves the Barbarian and the Ranger. Not having a lot of options is very relaxing and fun for her.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:19
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Gort posted:There's a fallacy here - "mechanically simple classes are only used by inexperienced players". In my 4e game I have players with years of D&D experience playing classes like the Essentials Thief because it's simple and powerful in play. Look, I'm just talking about things I've seen in play. I switched to a Bard because it was too simple and Rhinoceraptor took a Ranger talent (The one that gives a sorcerer daily) because it was too simple.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:02
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-Fish- posted:I picked up Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds with some of the money from my tax return, and it's good. Super good. About Gerudo: don't natural 20s already double an attack's damage? So theoretically you could do a quadruple damage attack? Haven't played in a while, so that may not actually be the crit rules, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like there's much reason to take midnight chill.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:18
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Ignore this post. Brain is off. At the end of my shift in a hot call center.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:20
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-Fish- posted:Ignore this post. Brain is off. At the end of my shift in a hot call center. In that case, would you consider changing Midnight Chill to some sort of failure mitigation, instead of a success enhancement? It would also help to make even more of a dichotomy between the two powers. ed: oh, I hit quote before your edit, my apologies.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:24
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The rule in the book is that if you'd double something twice, it becomes tripled instead of quadrupled (you'd have to double something three times to make it quadrupled).
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Feb 19, 2014 02:28
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