|
What hot hatch do you own? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Golf GTI / R / R32 |
|
196 | 0.02% |
| Impreza WRX / STi |
|
133 | 0.01% |
| Mazdaspeed 3 |
|
92 | 0.01% |
| Veloster Turbo |
|
20 | 0.00% |
| Focus ST |
|
149 | 0.01% |
| Other Hot Hatch |
|
230 | 0.02% |
| Elantra GT |
|
1000001 | 99.92% |
| Total: | 1000821 votes | ||
|
Timmy Cruise posted:I'm in Saskatchewan, which will be similar. The WRX sedan starts at $32,495 MSRP and at least in my experience the only break you get is if the manufacturer is offering discounts and only on cash purchases. I've never been 100 clear on this; would MSRP be the final cost of a car, or is that just a bullshit number that you have to add taxes and delivery fees and other poo poo to?
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 15:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:56 |
|
|
Nidhg00670000 posted:I've never been 100 clear on this; would MSRP be the final cost of a car, or is that just a bullshit number that you have to add taxes and delivery fees and other poo poo to? That is without taxes, fees, etc. The $38,169 would be the final cost and includes all of that (with Saskatchewan taxes which are 10%), keeping in mind that it does not include any financing cost. The cash at $33,769 has a $4,000 discount, before taxes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 15:39
|
|
|
A WRX STi is $57k (eqv) out the door here...
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 15:51
|
|
|
You just can't even compare canadian pricing, it's absurd and generally makes no sense. Everytime I look at a new car in canada (Abarth or fiesta ST) I look at how much I'd be paying per year (above 5k on a reasonable term) and that usually stops me. I can support my used BMW habit easily for less than 5k/year in payments. I have wanted a used GTI, but somehow those things have held their value ridiculously. I've never seen one for under 10k, even when approaching 200,000k.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 16:06
|
|
|
I feel the same way. We bought a Mazda 3 new since I wanted to not have to worry about her car (safety and repair wise), but like you said it would be very hard to justify getting a Fiesta or WRX, etc. versus going used as long as you are OK with doing some repairs. You should get a MK3 GTI 2.0l and do a 16v head swap so I can live vicariously through you. You may have to travel to find one that hasn't rusted though... Nidhg00670000 - you're where, Sweden?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
Timmy Cruise posted:That is without taxes, fees, etc. The $38,169 would be the final cost and includes all of that (with Saskatchewan taxes which are 10%), keeping in mind that it does not include any financing cost. The cash at $33,769 has a $4,000 discount, before taxes. Manitoba is even worst at 13% tax, and every single car I've looked at has a just under $1600 freight charge(so dealers see it as non negotiable), plus whatever they want to charge for a block heater and the bullshit dealer fees. Even bargaining them down won't get you close to the US pricing. Just looked up how much a base WRX would cost here, 41.2k otd financed at 1.9% for 5 years, the STI is 54.4k otd for the same term, both of these are without any pre installed accessories like a block heater, or battery warmer, etc. For the otd price of the Veloster the highest trim Impreza I could get is a sedan sport package. The sport hatch ends up almost 2k more than that. So yeah, Canadian pricing sucks. At least insurance isn't insane in Manitoba, at least on cars, it's actually cheaper by about $100 to insure the Veloster turbo over the base.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Timmy Cruise posted:Nidhg00670000 - you're where, Sweden? Yup.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
Nidhg00670000 posted:A WRX STi is $57k (eqv) out the door here... That's including 25% sales tax (and Lord knows what else)
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:That's including 25% sales tax (and Lord knows what else) 25%! That's incredible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
Butt Wizard posted:A new challenger appears... I always like the Delta (and regret not buying a 1.6HF many years ago), but I've seen too many photos of rust to buy one today.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:That's including 25% sales tax (and Lord knows what else) Yes, cars have a 25% VAT. Add 37 USD in registration fees, and then (if we keep to the WRX STi) 410 USD in road tax each year. Then I pay 7.7 USD per gallon at the petrol station, of which about 65% is tax.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Sweevo posted:I always like the Delta (and regret not buying a 1.6HF many years ago), but I've seen too many photos of rust to buy one today. Yea I wouldn't buy one ex-UK or Europe. Thankfully the Japanese went crazy for them so there are some pretty good examples floating around.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:05
|
|
|
Wow. I feel much better about your purchase at least. At first I thought the dealer had swindled you, but now I see it was probably actually a decent deal
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:35
|
|
|
Dr.Caligari posted:Wow. I feel much better about your purchase at least. At first I thought the dealer had swindled you, but now I see it was probably actually a decent deal Yeah, we get fleeced by every dealer in Canada compared to the US. Relatively speaking I feel we got a pretty good deal all things considered, but yeah comparing to US pricing it can definitely be shocking. Edit: If you want some more reference points, just to make a somewhat complete list of various new hot hatches (all similarly spec-ed): Fiat 500 Turbo $26.8k OTD 1.9% finance Veloster Turbo $31k OTD 0% finance Fiat 500 Abarth $31.2k OTD 1.9% finance Ford Fiesta ST $33k OTD 0% finance Ford Focus ST $38.2k OTD 0.9% finance MazdaSpeed 3 $39k OTD + financing Mini Cooper S $39.1k OTD 1.9% finance Subaru WRX $41.2k OTD 1.9% finance VW Golf GTI $45k OTD 3.9% finance Mini Cooper Works $50.2k OTD 3.9% finance Subaru STI $54.4k OTD 1.9% finance Sucks buying a new (fun) car in Manitoba. I really liked the Fiat but my fiance can't stand it's styling so it was out of the running. Bajaha fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 01:17
|
|
|
So I'm pleasantly surprised, reading through the manual, it looks like the Veloster Turbo takes regular 87 octane gas. I guess the GDi tech lets them get away with lower octane in a turbo motor, just was expecting that 91+ would be recommended as with most other turbo cars. I made the mistake of looking at various veloster forums to see if the motor responds well to premium even though it's recommended 87 (being a turbo motor you'd think it would adjust tune if it's fed higher grade fuel) and holy poo poo, those forums are worst black holes of misinformation and poorly thought out arguments than the subaru forums  Anyway, it's a long shot but, is there an owners forum that has a half decent signal to noise ratio? And on the GDi front, do the new ones still have issues with intake valve carbon buildup? I remember hearing that about early GDi motor's and I think I heard that Lexus was one of the first to use a second set of injectors to keep the valves clean but I haven't heard much since about the issue, haven't really looked around either though. And here, have another pic 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
The Focus ST and Fiesta ST I think both can run 87 octane. In fact, my factory manual for my Focus recommends running 87, in spite of the fact that it develops maximum horsepower and torque when 93 is put in.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
bobfather posted:The Focus ST and Fiesta ST I think both can run 87 octane. You'd be stupid to run 87 in either of those cars. That it can do it is no surprise. That it will knock, get poorer fuel economy, and generally suck is also no surprise. My girlfriend's 3.8 Genesis coupe also says it can run on 87, but it knocks under high load. So, I convinced her to start buying 93.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
MetaJew posted:You'd be stupid to run 87 in either of those cars. That it can do it is no surprise. That it will knock, get poorer fuel economy, and generally suck is also no surprise. It doesn't knock, actually. I do extensive monitoring using my AccessPort to log everything related to the ignition, among other variables. The car is 100% fully capable of running 87. Ford says so, and I have logged empirical proof that doing so is not harmful.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
Bajaha posted:So I'm pleasantly surprised, reading through the manual, it looks like the Veloster Turbo takes regular 87 octane gas. I guess the GDi tech lets them get away with lower octane in a turbo motor, just was expecting that 91+ would be recommended as with most other turbo cars. I made the mistake of looking at various veloster forums to see if the motor responds well to premium even though it's recommended 87 (being a turbo motor you'd think it would adjust tune if it's fed higher grade fuel) and holy poo poo, those forums are worst black holes of misinformation and poorly thought out arguments than the subaru forums I'm on velosterturbo.org, I don't know if thats one of the black holes you checked but they have a few vendors that are making and trying a lot of things and seem to know whats going on. Nice to see a change from all the Ford talk 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 23:51
|
|
|
More 'not Ford' talk. I got a new toy last week.  The first thing I did was get it tinted then dipped the wheels red to match the trim.  It was the last 2013 on the dealer lot and they wanted it gone. I got it for a steal loaded with upgraded leather interior with heated seats, Beats sound system, 17" wheels, sunroof, nav, and more I've already forgotten. I think I did really well. I went into the dealer looking at a base model 500, the Pop. My wife already has a Golf R(the nose is in the second pic above) so I was looking for a cheap commuter to replace my 25 year old Range Rover(the Classic will remain my camping and hauling vehicle). I didn't need another hot hatch. I looked at the Fiat, the Fiesta, and even the Leaf. I dropped by the dealer a week later for a second look at the Pop and in passing asked about the Abarth. The price they quoted was just a bit out of my budget. I ended up leaving without buying anything. The dealer called me a couple days later and said what price did it take for me to buy the Abarth. They met my, what I thought was a joke, price. Two hours later I drove home in it. My wife's car is technically faster but the Abarth sure _feels_ faster and is a real blast to drive. I know it's cliche but it handles like it's on rails. I've never, in nearly 30 years of driving, owned a FWD car and it takes a slightly different driving style but I'm getting used to it. And the exhaust note is captivating. Whatever engineer convinced Fiat/Chrylser to drop the muffler for 2013 and on needs to be thanked. That backfire/afterfire popping under acceleration never gets old. Eventually I'd like to drop/level it. I'm not completely sold on the forward rake they have from the factory. I'd like to fill the wheel wells a bit better but not at the cost of handling. I don't want 'stance' for stance's sake. Also I'm shopping around at different tunes. There's a lot going on in that area right now for these and figuring out what's the 'best' is a bit tough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
bobfather posted:The Focus ST and Fiesta ST I think both can run 87 octane. They run 87 fine, but who on earth would buy an ST and get less power just to save $~2-3 per fillup? Baffling. 93 for me all day.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 06:17
|
|
|
Voltage posted:They run 87 fine, but who on earth would buy an ST and get less power just to save $~2-3 per fillup? Baffling. 87 for less torque steer? I'll get my hat...
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 09:10
|
|
|
Voltage posted:They run 87 fine, but who on earth would buy an ST and get less power just to save $~2-3 per fillup? Baffling. Try driving in a MN winter. It's getting 87 until mid April. Plus premium here is generally 50 cents more a gallon. That's $6 or so per tank that goes to the new exhaust fund :-)
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 15:34
|
|
|
Kill-9 posted:More 'not Ford' talk. I pulled up next to an Abarth a few weeks ago and my god it seemed like it was half the size of my Golf. Does it at least feel bigger than it seems?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Kill-9 posted:More 'not Ford' talk. This looks fantastic!
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 21:22
|
|
|
I have an unpopular opinion about people who drop 30k on a new car but don't want to spend a few extra dollars on the right kind of gas for it.. I took my eyes off the road for a few moments in this horrible NY landscape and slammed into pot hole at about 80mph, bent the rim and flatted the tire. Looks like it may be salvageable though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
Sepist posted:I have an unpopular opinion about people who drop 30k on a new car but don't want to spend a few extra dollars on the right kind of gas for it.. That's the thing though, if it's recommended 91+ and you're putting in 87 then I agree with you, but if the motor was designed to run on both 87 and 91+ and is just rated a few hp more on 91+ then I don't really see the harm. Especially I'm the case of the Hyundai where the manual recommends 87 and the power was rated using 87 in the tank. It's nice that 91+ gives a hp boost but if your mileage is the same and you're mostly commuting then why spend the extra if it was designed for 87 anyway? I can see it surprising people, especially since we're used to expecting performance and turbocharged motors to require premium, but if the tech has changed and running regular doesn't result in pinging with the ecu pulling a lot of timing and getting terrible mileage as a result, then spending the extra money for premium doesn't make a lot of sense for the average commuter. Similar to how throwing premium into something designed for regular is considered foolish, the difference being that now performance engines are getting designed around regular but can actually take advantage of the benefits of premium.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 22:27
|
|
|
I don't remember if the Hyundai GDI engines still have coking issues, but if you get symptoms the first things dealers will usually do is ask if you're using premium gas, and tell you to piss off if you're not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
Why not just by the non-hot non-turbo version and save even more money at that point if the main goal is to save a few bucks? My goal was to have fun and if that means $3 extra every fillup than so be it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 00:09
|
|
|
So it's proven the Ford ST's produce more power on premium, does the Veloster turbo do to? Manual has no mention of premium fuel and online I couldn't find a definitive answer. I'd believe it should, modern ecu and all, but it's weird that Hyundai doesn't advertise a higher hp figure like the Ford's do when run on premium.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 00:23
|
|
|
veedubfreak posted:I pulled up next to an Abarth a few weeks ago and my god it seemed like it was half the size of my Golf. Does it at least feel bigger than it seems? It's comically small next to my wife's Golf. That said, it doesn't feel as small as it looks. I'd say that's due to the very upright seating position that some people don't like. The seating doesn't bother me at all. It's very much like my Classic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:18
|
|
|
Voltage posted:Why not just by the non-hot non-turbo version and save even more money at that point if the main goal is to save a few bucks? My goal was to have fun and if that means $3 extra every fillup than so be it. Then you'll do what you do, and I'll do what I do. By the way, according to Ford the Focus ST makes 244 HP on 87, and 252 on 93. Not quite the significant difference you'd expect.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:22
|
|
|
I'll skip the gas station snacks if it nets me ~8-10HP, but to each his own I guess - I never really even think about fuel costs to be honest. My ST gets at least 22MPG and if I'm going on a long highway trip I'll do about 28. Pretty good considering I'm WOT most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:38
|
|
|
bobfather posted:Then you'll do what you do, and I'll do what I do. 8-10 HP is nothing to sneeze at, especially if all it takes is a few extra bucks. Normally you'd have to spend several hundred dollars on an exhaust or something else to see a similar gain. (e: I guess it's not a big deal anymore when you can just hit a couple buttons in a scan-tool to get the same result. Kids these days...) The first few times I filled up my 850 Turbo I bitched and moaned about buying premium, but after a while you don't even notice those extra cents, especially with how much the price fluctuates anyways these days.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
The manual on the 3 cylinder fiesta ecoboost says 87 octane too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 03:29
|
|
|
Kill-9 posted:It's comically small next to my wife's Golf. That said, it doesn't feel as small as it looks. I'd say that's due to the very upright seating position that some people don't like. The seating doesn't bother me at all. It's very much like my Classic. I just bought an Abarth and like the seating position too. I'm pretty tall and it feels like I have a lot more leg room than my last car which was quite a bit bigger. I can see why some people might not like it but it suits me just fine. I have an old Z car which has the exact opposite feeling being so long and low to the ground.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 03:44
|
|
|
mafoose posted:The manual on the 3 cylinder fiesta ecoboost says 87 octane too. Makes you wonder what a 93 tune will get you 
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 03:53
|
|
|
Voltage posted:I'll skip the gas station snacks if it nets me ~8-10HP We all probably should. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
It took 5 months to get here, but my Fiesta finally arrived, with the correct number of doors no less
sadnessboner fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Feb 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 10:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 20:56 |
|
|
I've never understood the obsession with three door hatches. edit: not making GBS threads on your car at all, it looks great. But the whole thing with anything that comes over is like "WHY DIDN'T THEY BRING THE THREE DOOR???" and I don't even get it. I moved from the 1-Series to the Focus ST in part to get the two extra doors.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 14:54
|
|
