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deimos posted:Pretty sure SubG is saying you two are not doing it right, if the ribeye is normal american thickness (euros tend to do thinner steaks) of 1-1.5" you are not pasteurising your food and might as well not loving cook it. What. You don't need to pasteurize it if you're only cooking it like that for a couple hours.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:08
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No Wave posted:I understand wanting to pasteurize for serving other people etc. For myself I've been eating a lot of rare to bleu meat recently (not ribeye tho) How is it being dramatic? Don't SV it, sear it and eat it.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:09
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Yeah, there's no need for pasteurization - just getting the steak to temp (which might only take like 45 minutes) before the sear is just fine.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:11
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deimos posted:How is it being dramatic? Don't SV it, sear it and eat it. SV is especially nice for bone-in ribeyes and getting dat deckle to the same temp as the parts near the bone... No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 16:18
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131 is more medium rare than blue.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:21
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a foolish pianist posted:131 is more medium rare than blue.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:22
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No Wave posted:Isn't that a little dramatic? My understanding was that most of the badness on meat is on the outside, which will be taken care of by the sear. Bacteria don't just live on the outside, they live on the inside of the meat. When spoiling bacteria become active, it doesn't matter whether you're meat is cooked or no it has already started to spoil. You're not just cooking the outside of the meat when you stick in the water bath for 5-6 hours. You're pasteurizing the WHOLE product.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:31
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SlayVus posted:Bacteria don't just live on the outside, they live on the inside of the meat. When spoiling bacteria become active, it doesn't matter whether you're meat is cooked or no it has already started to spoil. Like, it's 5:30 PM and you have some steak you want to eat. Starting pasteurization at 2:00 PM might have been the better option, but puddling's still a viable option for eating.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:34
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SlayVus posted:Bacteria don't just live on the outside, they live on the inside of the meat. When spoiling bacteria become active, it doesn't matter whether you're meat is cooked or no it has already started to spoil. This is not appreciably true in beef. quote:You're not just cooking the outside of the meat when you stick in the water bath for 5-6 hours. You're pasteurizing the WHOLE product. We're not talking about a 5-6h cook, we're talking about a short-term one where pasteurization is not necessary.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:35
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No Wave posted:I know that - but saying that there's no purpose in puddling something at 131 for an hour is still, I think, not the case, as you're still cooking the meat in a manner that has potential benefits (texture/taste, not health) over just searing it. Yeah you still get a perfectly done steak with minimal overdone parts which is almost impossible with searing.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:44
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I'm a rebel. I eat un-pasteurized meat.
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Feb 28, 2014 16:48
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No Wave posted:I know that - but saying that there's no purpose in puddling something at 131 for an hour is still, I think, not the case, as you're still cooking the meat in a manner that has potential benefits (texture/taste, not health) over just searing it. Stop listening to these crazy people - there's no need to let a steak sit at 132 for six hours to pasteurize. It does nothing. It's not better. Actually, if you're cooking at below 130, it's probably worse - those are the temps at which some bacteria grow faster. And it's not like non-sous vide methods of steak cooking would pasteurize in a way that sous vide doesn't. If you're getting the core of your steak to 132 degrees on a grill, you're not letting it sit at 132 for six hours. EngineerJoe posted:Yeah you still get a perfectly done steak with minimal overdone parts which is almost impossible with searing. I think you might be confused about what searing is. a foolish pianist fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 17:04
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a foolish pianist posted:Stop listening to these crazy people - there's no need to let a steak sit at 132 for six hours to pasteurize. It does nothing. It's not better. Actually, if you're cooking at below 130, it's probably worse - those are the temps at which some bacteria grow faster. And it's not like non-sous vide methods of steak cooking would pasteurize in a way that sous vide doesn't. If you're getting the core of your steak to 132 degrees on a grill, you're not letting it sit at 132 for six hours. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Feb 28, 2014 |
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Feb 28, 2014 17:16
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I swear to god, half the people in this loving thread must live like AIDS patients or The Boy in the Bubble. It's loving food. Heat it up for a while and eat it, you're not going to get botulism.
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Feb 28, 2014 17:25
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Safety Dance posted:I swear to god, half the people in this loving thread must live like AIDS patients or The Boy in the Bubble. It's loving food. Heat it up for a while and eat it, you're not going to get botulism.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:53
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This is a legit concern. If previous slow cooker threads and general goon hygiene are any indication, someone in one of these threads is going to do something really stupid and get super sick since food safety is way more of a concern when you're cooking something for 24+ hours at a time at temperatures that approach the optimal bacterial growth range. (not to mention that if you're feeding a child or someone that is immunocompromised you should really make sure you're not going to gently caress it up.)
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Feb 28, 2014 20:19
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Does anyone go for long cooking times below 130? I gave it try once, but tossed the result, and I've never really seen anyone encourage that sort of thing here. Definitely never seen anyone do anything around 110.
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Feb 28, 2014 20:25
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a foolish pianist posted:Does anyone go for long cooking times below 130? I gave it try once, but tossed the result, and I've never really seen anyone encourage that sort of thing here. Definitely never seen anyone do anything around 110. we get people asking if it's okay to throw a whole frozen chicken into a slow cooker in the other thread. it's worth making sure that it's clear what is okay and not okay to do. hell there was that guy that wanted to keep a burger in a ziploc bag in his puddle at all times, just in case he wanted a burger with 5 minutes notice. gross goonness/laziness knows no bounds.
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Feb 28, 2014 20:29
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That's real gross but a far different situation than "if you don't pasteurize your steak why even cook it?".
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Feb 28, 2014 21:58
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Chemmy posted:That's real gross but a far different situation than "if you don't pasteurize your steak why even cook it?". I guess I should've said, if you're not gonna pasteurize why worry about the time it takes? You're certainly not cooking anything.
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Feb 28, 2014 22:18
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SubG posted:Who's this `most people'? Three hours at 55C/131F is just over what you'd figure as the minimum pasteurisation time for a ribeye, without getting out your callipers. And it's not going to get appreciably more `done' if you leave it in longer. Or denature meaningful amounts of collagen into gelatin---you're right at the bare-rear end minimum temperature for it to start happening in any appreciable way at all, and for it to happen enough to affect mouthfeel is something you're usually looking at 24-48 hours for, even in a piece of meat that has more collagen to convert in the first place. Actually for the given time and temp I've specified I generally get very good results on softening up the connective tissues. Instead of tough fibrous bands of muscular fascia I've got muscular fascia that's edible, just a little bit chewy.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:50
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ShadowCatboy posted:Actually for the given time and temp I've specified I generally get very good results on softening up the connective tissues. Instead of tough fibrous bands of muscular fascia I've got muscular fascia that's edible, just a little bit chewy. 3h@135F is going to do dick squat to connective tissue, a ribeye doesn't have enough connective tissue to make a difference regardless. The fact that it's edible vs. not has to do with the cut not the time.
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Feb 28, 2014 23:56
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No, there's a definite difference. At 1 hour @130*F the band of fascia surrounding the inner "eye" is much too fibrous to eat and is tough to saw through with a steak knife. You end up having to scrape off the meat scraps from the fascia, and chewing on it would be like chewing a hunk of really tough plastic. By 3 hours it's become as easy to slice through as the rest of the meat and is just as easy to chew. It can't be a matter of the cut, since I did two individual steaks cut from the same ribeye roast at home for these given times.
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Mar 1, 2014 00:53
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deimos posted:I guess I should've said, if you're not gonna pasteurize why worry about the time it takes? You're certainly not cooking anything. What are you even talking about now? Pasteurization and cooking are different things entirely. A grilled steak is cooked, but not pasteurized. The milk in my fridge is pasteurized but not cooked.
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Mar 1, 2014 01:10
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a foolish pianist posted:What are you even talking about now? Pasteurization and cooking are different things entirely. A grilled steak is cooked, but not pasteurized. The milk in my fridge is pasteurized but not cooked. cooking a steak sous vide to completion would only require a few hours, and pasteurisation wouldn't happen, but this is not the case with eggs or anything that requires a >3h cooking time.
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Mar 1, 2014 06:28
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ShadowCatboy posted:Actually for the given time and temp I've specified I generally get very good results on softening up the connective tissues. Instead of tough fibrous bands of muscular fascia I've got muscular fascia that's edible, just a little bit chewy. I mean it can still be a good steak. Not like a ribeye's exactly a tough cut of beef to start out with. Anyway. As far as pasteurising goes, yeah. I'm not saying you have to pasteurise your steaks. What I'm saying that is that if you throw a steak in for 45 minutes at 131 or whatever you're not even pasteurising it, because that isn't happening until around the 3-4 hour mark, and just hitting pasteurisation isn't exactly lol overcooked as far as s-v goes.
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Mar 1, 2014 08:52
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I'd urge you to try it sometime then, SubG. It's true that very little of the fat renders out, but the connective tissue is definitely softer. I've done this a dozen times or so and I've always found that the 3-hour mark is when the CT becomes edible.
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Mar 2, 2014 13:01
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ShadowCatboy posted:I'd urge you to try it sometime then, SubG. It's true that very little of the fat renders out, but the connective tissue is definitely softer. I've done this a dozen times or so and I've always found that the 3-hour mark is when the CT becomes edible. As I said, it really doesn't have a lot of connective tissue that needs to be broken down by the heat, and if it did that length of time at that temperature wouldn't do it. At low temperatures like that you'll get some denaturing of collagen, but below 60C/140F the thing that contributes most to tenderisation (as in 24-48 hour short ribs) is the activity of the enzyme collagenase rather than thermal breakdown, and the generally-accepted (and empirically derived) low end time for collagenase to do its poo poo is about 6 hours. Like, sure you'll get some effect in 3 hours, but it's rounding error. If you've really got it into your head that something magical is going on, go get yourself some tough-rear end chuck or shank or something and put it in the puddle for 3 hours@131 and try it.
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Mar 3, 2014 22:10
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No, I realize that ribeye has very little collagen in the meat itself. I'm referring to the fascia layer that separates the inner eye from the outer skirt. THAT gets significantly and noticeably softer after 3 hours in the puddle machine.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:07
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I cook my ribeye the one true way. 14 days at 115F until it is protein sludge. Then I pour it into a ring mold over a high flame and ducasse it with I Can't Believe It's Not Butter until a damp grey puck is formed. Great, now that's settled and we can move on.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:57
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geetee posted:I cook my ribeye the one true way. 14 days at 115F until it is protein sludge. Then I pour it into a ring mold over a high flame and ducasse it with I Can't Believe It's Not Butter until a damp grey puck is formed. Great, now that's settled and we can move on. Can we at least talk about why ribeye is the best cut of steak? 
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Mar 4, 2014 06:02
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ShadowCatboy posted:No, I realize that ribeye has very little collagen in the meat itself. I'm referring to the fascia layer that separates the inner eye from the outer skirt. THAT gets significantly and noticeably softer after 3 hours in the puddle machine.
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Mar 4, 2014 06:51
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Just got my shipping confirmation email for my Anova. Ordered ~2/19 and they'd told me 3 weeks, so I'm pleased they're exceeding expectations.
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Mar 4, 2014 06:57
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Ribeye steaks are the best steaks.
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Mar 4, 2014 08:31
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dotster posted:Can we at least talk about why ribeye is the best cut of steak?
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Mar 4, 2014 14:22
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No Wave posted:Honestly? I only really prefer ribeye when it's dry-aged, in which case it obviously is the best steak. Otherwise I'm happy with a strip steak. I am kind of spoiled, my family raises cattle and I get loads of grass fed dry-aged beef. Hell the hamburger I get is aged more than most store bought steaks. But yes, for me a good bone-in ribeye is my favorite steak. My second choice is generally a black and blue strip steak.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:02
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Oh hey the vizzle thread has lots of posts since i was last in GWS, I cant wait to see the pictures of what people have been making and maybe pick up some reci...  edit: For content last night I had a 57C ribeye in my anova. Threw it in the bath frozen, for 1 hour 20 minutes, then seared in the cast iron. Medium Rare all the way through. Was not literally made of plastic. Did not die. theparag0n fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 15:04
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theparag0n posted:Oh hey the vizzle thread has lots of posts since i was last in GWS, I cant wait to see the pictures of what people have been making and maybe pick up some reci... So posted asking for pictures of what people are cooking, then tell story about eating best steak last night and no pictures.  I am going to deep-fry my next steak in peanut oil rather than sear just to try that out, someone posted a pic on reddit the other day and it looked amazing.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:20
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dotster posted:I am kind of spoiled, my family raises cattle and I get loads of grass fed dry-aged beef. Hell the hamburger I get is aged more than most store bought steaks.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:27
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My sansaire never arrived, shot em an email. Got Scott to actually reply and they're shipping out a new one right now! Should get here on friday when I'm away for a wedding! Damnit 
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Mar 4, 2014 16:35
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