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Halloween Jack posted:I believe that on the RPGnet forums, one of the developers (Achilli?) said that Capcom was very difficult to work with and exercised a lot of control over what went into the game. I can believe that. I'm sure they were more concerned with marketing to people familiar with their current product rather than establishing some kind of persistent world narrative that tied in Street Fighter. Also, you would want the RPG to focus on whatever the current game was in an effort to boost sales.
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Mar 6, 2014 19:48
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Grnegsnspm posted:I can believe that. I'm sure they were more concerned with marketing to people familiar with their current product rather than establishing some kind of persistent world narrative that tied in Street Fighter. Also, you would want the RPG to focus on whatever the current game was in an effort to boost sales. It would also explain why the splatbooks get crazier instead of introducing more Street Fighter elements. If the choice is spending a bunch of time and effort on wheedling Capcom to give you access to Akuma or ... I guess Adon and Lee, or just add the basic elements of fighting game power in (elementals! cyborgs! half-animals!) and churn out a bunch of EZ-Bake NPCs, it's an easy choice to make.
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Mar 6, 2014 19:53
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You know, listening to the Street Fighter episode actually reminded me a lot of Scion, which was another WW-style "jam <concept> into the Storyteller system, even if it doesn't fit" deal, with the same issue of giving players very limited options to the point where all you can really do is recreate the signature characters except with one different power or something. Also how has nobody done Scion for these threads?
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Mar 6, 2014 20:08
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Evil Mastermind posted:You know, listening to the Street Fighter episode actually reminded me a lot of Scion, which was another WW-style "jam <concept> into the Storyteller system, even if it doesn't fit" deal, with the same issue of giving players very limited options to the point where all you can really do is recreate the signature characters except with one different power or something. We have a copy right here actually. It's on the list.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:11
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theironjef posted:We have a copy right here actually. It's on the list. I honestly can't wait to hear that one. Each of the three Scion core books somehow managed to be worse than the last, and the first book was pretty bad to begin with. Not to mention the loving "campaign" that took up a sizable chunk of each book that assumed everyone was using the pregens. You think Exalted has some bad math? You ain't seen poo poo yet.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:16
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Evil Mastermind posted:You know, listening to the Street Fighter episode actually reminded me a lot of Scion, which was another WW-style "jam <concept> into the Storyteller system, even if it doesn't fit" deal, with the same issue of giving players very limited options to the point where all you can really do is recreate the signature characters except with one different power or something. Oh, Scion. You could pretty easily do stuff outside the signature characters. That wasn't really the problem with it. The problem was that it was completely broken once they released the second book. Scion: Hero, while not perfect or anything, at least had a system that you could play a game in. Once you got to Demigod and God the math just stopped functioning to the point where you can pretty much put away the dice and just start telling people what you do. Also the different god powers were so wildly unbalanced with some being useful and some being absolutely pointless.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:18
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Yeah, Scion was one of those games that has a good concept and a lot of fun ideas (What other gameline lets you crossbreed a wolf with a pine tree and then give it a TV for a head?) but the actual mechanics of it can get broken once they're extrapolated to ichor level 13. I mean, Arete gives you 47 additional dice at that level, Epic Dexterity 12 gives you what, like 10 extra actions?
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Mar 6, 2014 20:23
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Grnegsnspm posted:I can believe that. I'm sure they were more concerned with marketing to people familiar with their current product rather than establishing some kind of persistent world narrative that tied in Street Fighter. Also, you would want the RPG to focus on whatever the current game was in an effort to boost sales. Also, there was basically no narrative in Street Fighter at that point beyond "punch some guys, punch some evil stronger guys, get on with your life". There's really nothing too complicated until Street Fighter Alpha 3, which came around a decade later.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:41
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Grnegsnspm posted:Also the different god powers were so wildly unbalanced with some being useful and some being absolutely pointless.
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Mar 6, 2014 20:42
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Also, there was basically no narrative in Street Fighter at that point beyond "punch some guys, punch some evil stronger guys, get on with your life". There's really nothing too complicated until Street Fighter Alpha 3, which came around a decade later. The narrative in the book is my favorite part by a country mile. It opens with a line about how you rarely see a black kung-fu dojo owner in San Francisco anymore (when was the heyday of that, anyway?) and proceeds into total lunacy, as that guy fights a spanish ninja (because those are actually common). By the end, the book is consistently suggesting that there are Shadaloo bases everywhere moving 'contraband' and 'drugs' all over for whatever reason, and moreover, they are guarded by what could be shorthanded into "well that one is guarded by a zangief, two vegas and a chun-li."
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Mar 6, 2014 20:48
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The most horrible thing about Scion for me were the write-ups on the gods. Not only was Artemis a 'skirt-chasing lesbian', but most of the potential divine mothers were described more as divine MILFs. I think it was someone around here who pointed out that the 'jotunblut' power of the Norse group as written up was shockingly insulting to Norse culture-- blood was something you shared with a man that you felt confident calling 'brother', not lesser bodies who might qualify as minions, and certainly not animals. And for some awful reason, the only thing I can remember from the Demigod opening fiction is a line alluding to a bunch of minotaurs jerking their beef while one of the signature characters gives them a pep talk.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:10
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Evil Mastermind posted:Also how has nobody done Scion for these threads? Too busy playing the same basic concept but better in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying. Bieeardo posted:The most horrible thing about Scion for me were the write-ups on the gods. Not only was Artemis a 'skirt-chasing lesbian', but most of the potential divine mothers were described more as divine MILFs. Ugh, this. I pretty much rage quit when the description of Athena started with the phrase "honey-haired and voluptuous." Bieeardo posted:I think it was someone around here who pointed out that the 'jotunblut' power of the Norse group as written up was shockingly insulting to Norse culture-- blood was something you shared with a man that you felt confident calling 'brother', not lesser bodies who might qualify as minions, and certainly not animals. "Shockingly insulting" covers a lot of Scion's execution, honestly. Some great basic concepts, but drat some of the choices they made.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:26
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GimpInBlack posted:Too busy playing the same basic concept but better in Marvel Heroic Roleplaying.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:32
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Bieeardo posted:The most horrible thing about Scion for me were the write-ups on the gods. Not only was Artemis a 'skirt-chasing lesbian', but most of the potential divine mothers were described more as divine MILFs. I think it was someone around here who pointed out that the 'jotunblut' power of the Norse group as written up was shockingly insulting to Norse culture-- blood was something you shared with a man that you felt confident calling 'brother', not lesser bodies who might qualify as minions, and certainly not animals. Oh for sure. The pantheons were all described in the most stereotypical and offensively ignorant way possible. Like the Aztec pantheon being strictly "savage" and bloodthirsty and so on. Which I can at least be sympathetic to the writers in that they are trying to distill an entire culture's complex religious beliefs into a five page spread that also includes pictures and a couple sidebars but even so. If it is going to be way too time consuming and difficult to research and present the gods in a meaningful way, at least try to do something interesting or unique with them so that the changes stand out as being unique instead of "I heard that maybe blood or something was important to the Norse? Whatever, we have minion creation rules from Vampire we can transfer over." and then moving on. It's sad, really, because I was super excited about the game when it came out. A modern day demigods game where you mix pantheons and have awesome superhero-like adventures and poo poo? That sounds awesome. Then I got the first book and was like "Whatever, I can work with this." I got one session in, got a look through the second book and then didn't have a second session.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:34
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Grnegsnspm posted:It's sad, really, because I was super excited about the game when it came out. A modern day demigods game where you mix pantheons and have awesome superhero-like adventures and poo poo? That sounds awesome. Then I got the first book and was like "Whatever, I can work with this." I got one session in, got a look through the second book and then didn't have a second session. Check out Part-Time Gods. I reviewed it before, and while it's still a little crunchy, it's nowhere near Scion's level, and it's designed to let you adapt a large amount of generally-defined powers to your godly concept instead of having to bend your character concept around a limited selection of rigid powers.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:42
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Evil Mastermind posted:Check out Part-Time Gods. I reviewed it before, and while it's still a little crunchy, it's nowhere near Scion's level, and it's designed to let you adapt a large amount of generally-defined powers to your godly concept instead of having to bend your character concept around a limited selection of rigid powers. Looking it over right now and it sounds very interesting. Seems to be a bit of a cross section between Scion and American Gods.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:53
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What's obnoxious is all the space they wasted for the adventures of the pregens could've been used to clarify rules (there were bits my then GM found confusing) and go a little more in-depth about the gods.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:55
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Evil Mastermind posted:Check out Part-Time Gods. I reviewed it before, and while it's still a little crunchy, it's nowhere near Scion's level, and it's designed to let you adapt a large amount of generally-defined powers to your godly concept instead of having to bend your character concept around a limited selection of rigid powers. I was about to suggest this. If you're good with Unisystem, you could also take Armageddon (I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP YET!), drop everything but the avatars/incarnates/inheritors and have Gods battling what you will through a modern day fantasy setting.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:56
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Robindaybird posted:What's obnoxious is all the space they wasted for the adventures of the pregens could've been used to clarify rules (there were bits my then GM found confusing) and go a little more in-depth about the gods. Or even some setting info. Throughout the entire line there was zero information about how all these monsters and godlings and whatnot running around affected the world, especially since by the end of the line there were heavy duty world-shaking events and you were capable of being known and loved by everyone in the world simply because your Charisma has like 100 automatic successes. e: Tasoth posted:I was about to suggest this. If you're good with Unisystem, you could also take Armageddon (I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP YET!), drop everything but the avatars/incarnates/inheritors and have Gods battling what you will through a modern day fantasy setting. 
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Mar 6, 2014 22:12
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 Joints & Jivers, Part 1: Who the hell is interrupting my kung-fu? The year is 197X, the Age of Funk. And that's about all the description of the setting we get. It's assumed that you'll know exactly what you're getting into when you pop open this PDF, as there is no introduction chapter at all, just a glossary with a few basic terms, and a mention that the GM in this game is referred to as the FunkMaster. The PDF itself, however, is formatted to look like it was made in the 70s, complete with a fake-typewriter font, and the entirety of the rules text being written in jive slang. Still, to help ease the reader into the setting, there is a fake newspaper article on the first page that... you know what, there's no way my description can do it justice and the PDF's free on the Viral Games website anyways.   We then jump immediately into a character sheet, and “Chapter 1: Your bad-rear end self”, character creation. First comes a short personal section. Every character has to choose a Handle, what they go by, a Crib, where they chill, a Gig, what they do for a living, and, if the FunkMaster allows it, their Wheels, what they're driving. These are purely for show, as the stats for your Wheels are elsewhere on the page. As a minor flaw of the thrown-together design, it's not mentioned how you decide what your Wheels are until a couple more chapters in. The meat of the system comes from the five main stats, called Scores. Three are appearance-based, Hair, Shades, and Threds. A naked man would have 0 Shades and Threds, but it's specifically mentioned that a bald character can still have a decent Hair score by having a good 'stache. The better your clothes and shades, the better your Threds and Shades. It's also briefly mentioned that getting roughed up can temporarily lower your stats (Hair especially) until you have a chance to fix yourself back up. A starting character is given six points to distribute between the three, with the caveat that you can't have more than 4 points in Threds, but have to have at least 1 point in it. Only Threds has this restriction, strangely. Once you've made your decision, you look into the back of the book, and pick out clothes/shades that totals up to the points you've given yourself. You don't have to pay for your starting attire, but can buy better ones later. The other two stats are an inherent part of who your character is. Hip-Cattery is a sort of social grace stat, gauging how well you show off your style. It is also the only stat that can never be lowered by outside circumstance. Funk is how much punishment you can both take and dish out, and is “so important it's on the character sheet twice” (more on that in a second). You get six points to split between the two, with no limitations. Once you have your five Scores, they can be used to calculate your three Ratings (Funk, Tough, and Boogie,), derived statistics that are your actual modifier on checks in most situations. A check is defined as rolling a d6, and adding the appropriate rating. You can add Points to boost this, as well, but they aren't mentioned until next chapter, to prevent a complete sidetracking. Funk is used when you perform “funky” actions like busting through a window or kicking a ninja in the head. When you want to hit someone else, you roll a d6, add your Funk rating, and compare it to their Tough rating. If your total is higher, you hit, and reduce their Funk by one. Otherwise, nothing happens. When your Funk hits 0, you're taken out, and it takes one week to recover. You also get back a single point of Funk, up to your maximum, each time you roll a 6 on a Funk check. The other two Ratings are a combination of two Scores, but Funk is all by its lonesome (hence it being the 'most important score'). It can, however, be increased by certain Threds (mostly things like karate gis). Tough is your combat defense stat, and any Funk rolls need to be greater than your Tough for them to do any damage. Guns, however, only need to have their damage rating tie your Tough. Tough is also used when chasing someone, as an opposed Tough vs Tough check, with ties going to the chase-ee. If the chaser is in a vehicle, however, they get to use Funk instead, (as they're not chasing you, they're trying to run you down). Tough is calculated by adding together Shades and Threds, which creates an odd situation where getting your shades knocked off your face makes you more vulnerable to injury. Boogie, as opposed to the other two Ratings, is purely for social situations, and is almost solely used in Boogie vs Boogie opposed rolls. The two in-book examples are trying to get a 'fine mama' to fall for you on the dance floor, or cruising around town showing off your Wheels. In both cases, ties still go to the defender. To calculate Boogie, you add your Hair score to your Hip-Cattery score. You can't have much Boogie with a messed-up 'do. Next time: What the hell are kung-fu points?
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Mar 6, 2014 22:14
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Robindaybird posted:What's obnoxious is all the space they wasted for the adventures of the pregens could've been used to clarify rules (there were bits my then GM found confusing) and go a little more in-depth about the gods. It's not a white wolf book unless you're skipping the first third because it said "preternatural" too many times. Or wait, is that an Anne Rice book. Probably both.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:14
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My friend was telling me about this game last week, isn't there a rule where if you take X damage you lose your Shades stat until you can pick them up off the ground, and if you take too much you lose it permanently until you buy new ones? theironjef posted:It's not a white wolf book unless you're skipping the first third because it said "preternatural" too many times. Or wait, is that an Anne Rice book. Probably both.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:37
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Kurieg posted:My friend was telling me about this game last week, isn't there a rule where if you take X damage you lose your Shades stat until you can pick them up off the ground, and if you take too much you lose it permanently until you buy new ones?
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Mar 6, 2014 22:39
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theironjef posted:Was he awesome? Because whoever eschewed the standard White Wolf theater of the mind combat for that hex grid no-accuracy system had to have been pretty awesome. He took a world of poo poo from his editor because his version of combat 'wasn't theatrical enough.'
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Mar 6, 2014 22:44
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Bieeardo posted:I think it was someone around here who pointed out that the 'jotunblut' power of the Norse group as written up was shockingly insulting to Norse culture-- blood was something you shared with a man that you felt confident calling 'brother', not lesser bodies who might qualify as minions, and certainly not animals. That was Rulebook Heavily in I think the Murphy's Rules thread. Edit: Yep Rulebook Heavily posted:Sharing blood is a way to make someone as close as family. And that's quite literal: After a blood sharing rite, the people saring blood would be brothers. Period. You could know if it was by birth or by blood, but it didn't make a shred of difference. It's sacred, not in the sense of "a god made it so" but in the "this is a big loving deal" sense. Mr. Maltose fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 22:44
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Eh, that'd all be rad if you were playing a Norseman, but you're playing a Norse god, and they are basically universally assholes and thieves and jerks that played fast and loose with their own rules. Check out the Mead of Poetry legend, I'm pretty sure it's where the inspiration for Jotunblut came from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_of_Poetry Basically, the gods made a giant by spitting in a bucket, then killed it and used its blood to make mead, knows as Mead of Poetry, that changed hands a bunch until eventually Odin stole it all. Then he dropped a bunch. It inspires people to beserker rages, poetry, and scholastic pursuits, and it's basically giant blood, or jotunblut. I agree however that they could have done better with the story. Maybe mentioning Kvasir or the mead story at all would have helped. theironjef fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 23:09
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All this talk about World of Darkness makes me sad upon remembering how wonky that Nasuverse RPG reviewed in a prior F&F incarnation was. It's a universe that's like World of Darkness, except less angsty (sorta) and more explosive. And it has everything from street-level humans trying to survive vampiric predators to an imminent not-too-far-future invasion by living avatars of the other systems in Sol getting ready to fulfill an ancient contract and scrub the Earth clean. On that note, I have this urge to review one of the incarnations of Hunter. I don't care much for World of Darkness, but I LOVE Hunter.
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Mar 6, 2014 23:20
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Ars Magica: Transforming Mythic Europe Last time I was here, I talked about how you might make magical printing presses. Now let's talk about the Order and its response. The Order typically sells books among magi, and arrangements to pay for the right to copy a book are fairly common. Technology to instantly copy a book would rapidly change things. Some of House Bonisagus would be against it - if knowledge is not hard-won, they say, where does the sense of responsibility come from? Further, mass production of books anonymizes the authors, lowering their personal acclaim. House Jerbiton, meanwhile, is largely disgusted by the very idea - it cheapens knowledge for the sake of power. Any magi who believe in self-sufficiency hate the technology as well. Many, perhaps most Tytalus magi feel that knowledge and power are worthless if not earned, after all. House Guernicus is worried primarily about the implications of the books - in the present, where books on Magic Theory, the lore of the Order and the Parma are rare, it's easy to contain them. Mass production changes that - it will be very hard to keep such books out of mundane hands...or worse, the hands of the Order's foes. They will, if nothing else, work to ban the production of any books on the Parma Magica at the least. Houses Bjornaer, Merinita, Criamon and Verditius largely do not care about the change. Their knowledge is esoteric and cannot be truly hidden on paper with inkj - it must be earned by ordeal. They might mildly support things if it means more books to study, but would also fear the discovery and recording of their secrets by outsiders. After all, widespread knowledge of a mystic ritual does weaken it. Secrecy is power. House Mercere, of course, does not give a poo poo. They're still needed to transport the books, after all. Both Houses Tremere and Flambeau are quite in favor of mass production, as it allows a more rapid rise in power, and a more efficient Order. Those members of Bonisagus who don't hate the stuff on principle will adore it for its ability to disseminate knowledge. Some of House Tytalus will support the new technology because conflict can be caused from and manipulated by the control over texts made available. The more political Ex Miscellanea are eager to get their hands on books, due to their fears that they have been kept from knowledge by the rest of the Order, as second-class citizens. Mass production may evne allow them to spread and presreve their traditions. Of course, there is one problem: the Cow and Calf Oath. This is, simply, the oath that a book's purchaser or recipient takes, not to sell or give copies of that book without permission from the original owner. This comes from a Hibernian Tribunal ruling, and is not legally binding in any other Tribunal yet, but is exceptionally common as a gentleman's agreement between magi. For some rare or exceptional books, the oath is formally sworn and signed to give legal weight. High quality books take seasons of work which few magi will do if it means pissing off the author. However, mass production technology makes it fast and easy - so more tempting to break. As it stands, the Cow and Calkf Oath is not part of the Code outside Ireland, so it can't be assumed to be legally binding. It's been debated in the past, but so far no rulings at Grand Tribunal have come of it. This may well change if easy copying is made widespread. After all, intellectual property and value become mopre important if it's easier to spread. This Oath does not protect texts belonging to non-magi, of course, so this invention may well change Europe even if magi can be assured that their texts will not be so easil copied...though it would take a very altruistic wizard to pursue the considerable effort and vis that it would take to make this sort of thing happen for no chance of profit off their own library...which almost certainly is bound by the Cow and Calf Oath. But suppose we imagine a society where books are not so expensive to create. European books are owned largely by monasteries, where they are made, and nobles, who buy them. Most of Europe never owns a book...but if books are made mass producible, that will change. They are limited only by raw materials, then - and while that is a real limit, it's hardly an insurmountable one - and the existence of skilled operators for the devices. Free access to reading material will spread knowledge and literacy. REading will spread to the masses, as it is now a very useful skill. We do have a real-world model for this: Gutenberg's printing press of 1455. It spread like wildfire - by 1480 almost every city in Europe had a press. Within decades, it was used to make political treatises for the masses on inequality and oppressive nobles. It's exaggeration to say the press killed feudalism or the Church, but it was vital to the spread of civil disobedience and Protestantism. Compared to Hermetic devices, the Gutenberg press was very slow, but much easier to make, so we might as well consider them equal. The spread of ideas and questioning of authority is a natural consequence of a literate society. The Church resisted vulgate translations of the Bible for centuries, for fear of what man might do if he could read it himself. Also notable: you could easily put all the scribes in a city of out of work. The Scrinium works all day, all night and is much faster. It just needs raw materials, and can easily do the work of a team of scribes years faster than might otherwise be the case. The scribes would, of course, be furious. They'd complain to the burghers and lords to get the technology banned, perhaps arguing that magically made books are profaned - an outright lie, but a reason easily argued. It's also likely that non-religious scribes will organize into guilds over this. They have no strong reason to do so until their livelihoods are threatened, but may well then join with others who make their living writing, such as notaries and advocates. Monks can't join guilds, but may easily sympathize and support them. Further, the Learned Magicians would easily side with them, for they are knwon for their parchment amulets and calligraphic items. They're invested in maintaining a scribal industry. The parchment makers and inksmiths might also help, but they're not directly threatened - indeed, they can sell their goods hand oiver fist to the magi, so they may support the Scrinium. Paper may become more widespread as a cheaper and faster alternative to parchment. The political power of the Scribes will vary by game, and if they can control the supply of writing materials, they will even be able to to command terms to the magi to some extent, at least until a magus invents a ritual to generate parchment cheaply. The scribes, if not so powerful, will work in sabotaging the new technology and its books. They may become a hidden, underground profession seen as archaic. Now, assuming that Hermetic books are made more common at the same rate as mundane ones, or faster, the ORder itself will change. Books stop being priceless commodities. There will always be a place for artisan bookmakers who create magically enhanced books, but each covenant might own hundreds of books, especially if they own their own Scrinium. Study of books becomes muchj more common, especially for apprentices and for old magi who gain more ready access to tractatus they haven't already read. Magi don't gain more experience this way, but do gain more breadth of knowledge. The book suggests a new set of rules for running massive libraries, where most books go unstatted, but instead provide points towards larger topic collections. Next time: Teleportation.
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Mar 6, 2014 23:41
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, but good luck getting your hands on a copy. While it's not a hardcopy, Eden Studios uses Drive thru RPG. So you can get the PDF for cheaper than the hard cover.
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Mar 7, 2014 04:43
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theironjef posted:Eh, that'd all be rad if you were playing a Norseman, but you're playing a Norse god, and they are basically universally assholes and thieves and jerks that played fast and loose with their own rules. Check out the Mead of Poetry legend, I'm pretty sure it's where the inspiration for Jotunblut came from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_of_Poetry Actually Kvasir was killed by some dwarves and berserkers were a result of the Valkyries telling them they would become einheinjar (the warriors in Valhalla/Freya's hall) but otherwise that's pretty accurate. Also Norse gods don't just play fast and loose with their own rules, they tend to just ignore them when inconvenient. That said even the gods did not gently caress with blood oaths. Loki is kept alive until Ragnarok and leads the denizens of helheim against Asgard in the final battle. The Aesir know this will happen and Odin still refuses to let anyone kill his blood brother. I'm not sure why I just typed all this, I just really like Norse mythology.
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Mar 7, 2014 05:30
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, but good luck getting your hands on a copy. I have dead tree versions of both 1st and 2nd Edition Armageddon... 
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Mar 7, 2014 17:48
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Grnegsnspm posted:I can believe that. I'm sure they were more concerned with marketing to people familiar with their current product rather than establishing some kind of persistent world narrative that tied in Street Fighter. Also, you would want the RPG to focus on whatever the current game was in an effort to boost sales. theironjef posted:It would also explain why the splatbooks get crazier instead of introducing more Street Fighter elements. If the choice is spending a bunch of time and effort on wheedling Capcom to give you access to Akuma or ... I guess Adon and Lee, or just add the basic elements of fighting game power in (elementals! cyborgs! half-animals!) and churn out a bunch of EZ-Bake NPCs, it's an easy choice to make. As for the art itself, I touched on that in my F&F...it was the early 90s and comic book art was trending toward just that sort of ridiculousness.
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Mar 7, 2014 18:21
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Halloween Jack posted:Well, at the same time, I think they were barred from getting their hands on anything from the upcoming Alpha series. Street Fighter Alpha didn't do much for the franchise (given that even Capcom essentially disowned it), at least until its sequels improved on the idea (Alpha 3, particularly). I'm not sure Guy, Birdie, Rose, Charlie, Dan, and Sodom would've done much to reinvigorate the line.
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Mar 7, 2014 19:53
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But but but Haggar!
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Mar 7, 2014 19:56
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Halloween Jack posted:But but but Haggar! Haggar doesn't show up in a Street Fighter-y game til Marvel vs. Capcom 3. I was confused because I could have sworn Sakura was in the first Alpha, and that would have been perfect for White Wolf and their love of upskirt art, but apparently not!
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Mar 7, 2014 20:53
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theironjef posted:Haggar doesn't show up in a Street Fighter-y game til Marvel vs. Capcom 3. I was confused because I could have sworn Sakura was in the first Alpha, and that would have been perfect for White Wolf and their love of upskirt art, but apparently not! Too bad SF3 didn't exist yet because Elena would have been perfect.
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Mar 7, 2014 21:05
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It's cool, as we mention in the podcast they take a look at Blanka and say "well, South America.... so capoeira, right?" Sure, that's characterized by biting and delivering shocks (and being from South America). So Elena is surprisingly easy to make, provided you want her to deliver electric shocks.
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Mar 7, 2014 23:08
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I'm glad you guys zeroed in on it because it was one of the things that really drove me crazy as a teenage martial arts nerd. Zangief is obviously a pro wrestler, but they can't put that as his fighting style, so...he's Russian, sambo is a Russian grappling style, so whatever Zangief does, that's sambo. Capoeira, Lerdrit, Kabaddi, Shotokan, and Sumo all got appropriated the same way because they didn't feel they could list a guy's fighting style as "yoga master" or "mutant Tarzan" and imply martial arts schools full of mutants and yogis. It's also kind of weird that Boxing is separated out and Muay Thai isn't in the book because the World Warriors associated with those arts are bad guys, and that you have rules for Yoga Fu and Magical Indian Wrestling but not, say, taekwondo. I guess it's pretty easy to play most common martial arts styles with either Kung Fu or Western Kickboxing, though. The especially funny thing is that when they published a bunch more martial arts styles in the Player's Guide, they veered toward realism in ways that make no sense. There are rules for groundfighting and "Pankration" as a style, but when you look at the rules for real-world martial arts like Savate, they don't get much embellishment...if kung fu guys in the Street Fighter world get flaming kicks and death touches, shouldn't a savateur get Dragon Punch and Hurricane Kick?
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Mar 7, 2014 23:25
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It didn't help that Capcom of USA muddied the waters by attributing stuff like Shotokan Karate to Ken and Ryu, or Capoeira to Blanka, none of which was correct. It created the idea that the Street Fighter II characters were loosely based on real fighting styles... which some were, but not all. White Wolf ran with that notion right into the ground, of course. Eventually Street Fighter III would have characters that actually did resemble Shotokan and Capoeira - Makoto and Elena, respectively. I did a rather Elena-influenced character in the short-lived Street Fighter PbP we had, but even so I had Guile's sonic boom, because, you know. Street Fighter.
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Mar 8, 2014 00:11
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Halloween Jack posted:The especially funny thing is that when they published a bunch more martial arts styles in the Player's Guide, they veered toward realism in ways that make no sense. There are rules for groundfighting and "Pankration" as a style, but when you look at the rules for real-world martial arts like Savate, they don't get much embellishment...if kung fu guys in the Street Fighter world get flaming kicks and death touches, shouldn't a savateur get Dragon Punch and Hurricane Kick? I always felt that way about a bunch of the characters in Alpha. Like "If Gen represents the pinnacle of rad kung-fu master, where's his special effects? All I see him doing is switching stances!" It's the same with Guy. He is severely lacking in mysterious ninja magic. But in the book, it's the exact same way, like they were afraid of introducing a Savate kick that would appropriately follow a down, down-back, back+kick maneuver in a video game. Maybe a low heel spin with automatic tripping, and why not some smoke effects or some lightning? It's "best savate man in the world" after all. Also, I'd say one of my favorite things about that whole aspect is that they were so hard-up for what to do with Vega that they basically just said "gently caress it, he's a Spanish ninja and he trains other Spaniards to also be Spanish ninjas and Spanish Ninjitsu is a thing. Done." It's weird because based on his arena and mode of dress it wouldn't have been out of place to say he's just an especially acrobatic toreador. theironjef fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 00:11
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