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...Meditate can be used by the other mage classes? 
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Mar 4, 2014 01:54
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Rollersnake posted:...Meditate can be used by the other mage classes? If you go to the skills screen and hold square and hit left and right you will see dozens of portraits. If it is a blue circle, that class can learn that skill. If it's greyed out with an x, that class can neither learn or use that skill. If it is an x with a level number you can learn at that level. The special instance is if a class has a red x, but the portrait is not greyed out. That means if you learn it on a different class, you can equip it on a class that wouldn't normally be able to use it. For example, most of the Mage classes can use meditate. Berserkers can have some levels of rampart aura even though they can't actually learn it. Some classes can use higher fortify and strength than the class can learn on it's own. In addition, you can game some of the common classes to learn skills earlier. If a Mage class learns spellcraft earlier than another Mage class, then you can switch to the lower req clas, learn it, and then put it on the original class. Holding the square button and hitting left and right is possibly the best tool in the game. It works for equipment, spells, and classes.
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Mar 4, 2014 02:05
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Meditate is hands-down the skill I use the most. It gains experience slowly, but with how often you can and will be using it in battle it shouldn't make much difference. Some +1 mage equipments will boost the rank of Meditate while equipped, too, allowing you to recover even more MP for magical casting funtimes.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:13
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Neurion posted:Meditate is hands-down the skill I use the most. It gains experience slowly, but with how often you can and will be using it in battle it shouldn't make much difference. Some +1 mage equipments will boost the rank of Meditate while equipped, too, allowing you to recover even more MP for magical casting funtimes. Wizard Hats +1 give 2 ranks to Meditate on top of 12 INT and 10 MIND. I've never not had everyone capable of wearing one have one perched prettily atop their heads. It also gives silenceproof but ahahaha Silent Light hitting anyway. Theoretically a rank 12 Meditate would give 60 MP a turn but that would involve Meditate ranking up.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:27
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Uggh, I knew all this, but somehow overlooked that Meditate transferred. All this time I've been exclusively using Wizard/Enchantress for no good reason.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:43
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Theoretically a rank 12 Meditate would give 60 MP a turn but that would involve Meditate ranking up. Dear god I don't even wanna think of what it takes to rank level 8 of mediate. The only thing I can think of worse is rank 8 overpower.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:46
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Parry/Deflect and Steal are pretty poo poo to raise, too.
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Mar 4, 2014 05:02
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Update 40: Chinese Torture Welcome back. Last time we went to Almorica and took over as head of the Walister Resistance. It's nice step up from war criminal as we used to be called. While we were there we meet with our Xenobian friends Gildas and Mirdyn and they decided to join us. They have a score to settle with the Dark Knights as do most people. Speaking of the Dark Knights, our new spies tell us there attacking Boed Fortress, the home of the Bakram Liberation Front.  After that I did some grinding. Gildas and Mirdyn weren't going to get up to level 15 by just standing around. For the recorded they join at 3 and they were already kicking rear end by level 9.  Now on to Boed.   We get here just in time to not see the Dark Knights leading someone away.   What about the abuna?  They led him away just now, quiet as a church mouse. I have that effect on people, don't I. So it would seem. Come, we've tarried long enough.  Ozma and one of the knights leave following their prisoner. We must remove any trace we were here. You, put the torch to this place. While you're at it, make certain we left no survivors.   Since we're dealing with Dark Knights on Liberation Front property we brought the most appropriate team possible. And Buluru because Buluru is always relevant. Feh, I've drunk my fill of these Walister dregs. A Dark Knight's work is never done.   There's not much to say about the battle plan on this one. We're just going to rush forward while sending a few units up a side path so we can flank the enemy. I mainly put this up so you can see what a huge terrain difference we walk into. For clarification: point 1 is our starting position; point 2 is the enemy starting position; point 3 is where most of the fighting will take place. The arrows represent the paths we will take.  As for our target, Oz. He is a Knight Commander a special class that we can actually get, but only on the Law path. It's an awesome class to have on your side. However, as an enemy Oz is simple and straight forward. That's a nice way of saying he just walks forward and hits things with his axe.  The rest of our enemies are all called Templar. Don't let the identical names fool you, Templars can be anything from knights to archers to mages. They just all have the same class name. I haven't really mentioned it before but the game does hide some flavor text in the menus. So I thought I should post some. Tactics Ogre posted:Knight Commander: A high-ranking knight of Lodis. Typically given command of 500 to 2000 troops, the Dark Knights Loslorien prefer to attack in smaller numbers (30 to 100) of highly trained elites.  Due to the height difference having the ability to fly makes Canopus and other flying units invaluable in this fight.  On the same token this place is an archer's nightmare.  Unless you're on the topside looking down. For fun, try and figure out which one of those dudes shoot this arrow.   As alluded to earlier we send Buluru and Gildas to the right of the main path. On the way they run into this guy.  Get used to seeing this.   In short order the Templars reach our main force and attack Canopus. Who is standing out like a sore thumb.  But Canopus doesn't have time to deal with them.  Back on our right, Gildas and Buluru work together to finish off an enemy. Before moving to engage the main force.  We also send Hobyrim on a roundabout path in an attempt to further surround the enemy.  The terrain and enemy placement is making maneuvering difficult, so we can't advance to far forward.   As I said in an earlier post I changed Denam's class between updates. He's a Rogue now.  I wanted a more offensive Rogue on the team and Denam need a class change anyway.  One of the Templars is a cleric, great.   At least the mages were kind enough to dress in red so we can tell them apart from the rest.   I learned my lesson last update, and that lesson was petrify all day, every day.  Bayin is one level to low to use the Earth spell version of petrify, so he has to settle for doing this.   However, Bayin soon finds out he has a worse problem than level deficiency. As a unlucky critical puts him down. Trying to keep Bayin and doomfunk alive is now Cistina's fulltime job, and as you can imagine she has her hands full.  It also seems that the enemy also follows the never not be petrifying school of thought. But we won't have a repeat of the last fight.  Because we a new way of dealing with this problem. The White Knight class trades some of the Divine spells regular Knight use, such as Instill Light, for status restoring spells.   We send Canopus to go deal with the Cleric. Slumber Shot doesn't out right kill him, but it does put him to sleep. That should keep him out of our hair for a few turns.  Sending Canopus up there alone might have been a risky move, but right now most of the enemy focus is on our frontline. In fact it's getting kind of crowded. If we don't do something soon we could find ourselves overrun.  To start things off, Denam takes out the injured Templar next to him.  Our maneuver with Hobyrim pays off as he sneaks in for an easy hit.   In the process he sets up Buluru for an easy kill and then some.  Plus, sending Canopus up above is paying off as well. The Cleric sleeps through his next turn.  Cistina heals doomfunk so he doesn't fall to the next stray arrow.  And he in turn makes another statue.   Even with all that the enemy is still pouring in like waves. One of them manages to get a devastating hit in on Hobyrim.  Gildas moves up to block the path but it's a little too late stop most of the Templars. It does stop Oz from join in and making a mess of things.   Hobyrim petrifies another Templar with his finishing move.  While, Doomfunk lends him some covering fire.  By now all the Templars are either dead, petrified, or too insignificant to care about. However this fight is not over yet. Oz is up on that ramp and our melee heavy forces can't reach him. Also all these statues are making me nervous. You never know when one of them will come alive and attack.   Denam uses the Rogue's special attack Sparagmos to attack every enemy within two square around him. This kills one of the stone Templars.  Oz gets into the fight by driving back Gildas.  Sometime during that the Cleric got back up. Not that he stayed that way for every long mind you.  Doomfunk petrifies the last remaining Templar archer. You would think that this would mean doomfunk is safe, but no. He will get knock unconscious be a random spell at some point before this battle ends. We just can't keep these wizards on their feet.   What were fearing happens and a Templar breaks free. Once again Hobyrim is hit by a finishing move. He survives, but this is starting to become a problem.  After that, we spend a few turns to finish off most of the remaining Templars. Now we need to send someone to go deal with Oz.  Obviously we send Hobyrim.  Oz counters.  Hobyrim, with not even enough HP to survive a counter attack, puts up preempt and waits. Because Oz now has over 100 TP, so you know what's coming.  In the few turns we have we heal Hobyrim as much as we can.  Oz beings his next turn with an odd question.  What? Our meeting can be no coincidence. You must have a spy in Phidoch. How else would you know to come here? I should take you alive and have the names of your whisperers. I would never betray my men! No, I think not. You enjoy playing the martyr too much. So I ask you: Which shall I cut off first? Your ears or your nose? ... We'll see how tight-lipped and stoic you are under the knife, boy.  Oz steps back...  And let's Hobyrim have it.  He survives once again.   Mirdyn is able to get a finnishing move off on Oz despite the terrain difference.  There's not much else we can do, so we heal Hobyrim just a tiny bit. Tooth or nail? A pin beneath the nail can be excruciating, and often this alone is enough to break a lesser man. Ah but the next part is truly delicious. Simply apply flame to the end of the pin-  Enough! We have no interest in such cruelty! Oh? a tooth man, are you? It's all the rage on the continent. Great, now we know which torture techniques are in vogue. Thanks game. I want to hear nothing of tooth, nail, or all the rest! Pity. I'll just have to kill you then, and simple butchery is such a bore. Ah, but to torture a man within a hair's breadth of life. Now there's a thing of beauty! There's no man can hold out forever. And once the tears start to flow, the begging is never far behind! Honor and dignity are as nothing in the face of agony! How long will you endure? You're inhuman!  That tiny bit from Folcurt helps because looking at the numbers Hobyrim wouldn't be able to survive this attack without it. You know what hasn't happened since Oz's last attack. Hobyrim hasn't had a turn.  Preempt kicks in.  Then, Oz attacks.  And Hobyrim counters.  That's enough to end this one folks. And yet it's you who runs. All talk, are you? I much prefer inflicting pain over receiving it. And now we part!  Oz retreats. Congratulations    We make our way into the fortress.  Cistina is appalled at what the Dark Knights have done to her comrades.  Her sister, Cerya, comes into view.  I'm... I'm fine. What of the others? Why did they do this? We freed the abuna from Heim. Brought him here. What abuna?  Oh no! Not Papa Pavel. My father lives? Where is he!? I know not. If his body isn't among the dead, they must have taken him with them.  Why would the Dark Knights go to such lengths to recapture a single man? They seek a woman named Mannaflora. There is but one man who knows her whereabouts. ...My father. Only I think they might already have found her. What do you mean?  Another time, then. We had best away before they return. You're right, of course. Cerya, you should come with us. I'm not sure that's wise.  The Duke's ways are not our ways. Join us. Together we can end this war. Too many good men died today that I should let it end like this. I shall take you at your word. Good. Now let's be off.   Next Time: We bring the fight to the Dark Knights' door step.
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Mar 4, 2014 23:50
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Have we met any Dark Knights who aren't complete assholes?
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Mar 5, 2014 01:31
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Oz you cheating fucker Knight Commander can't equip Nomad Bracers 
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Mar 5, 2014 01:33
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Rollersnake posted:Boy I feel stupid for never using Ninjas now. Not that my mages weren't powerful enough aready, but this would have been nice to know. A ninja dual wielding 2 elemental weapons with the appropriate elemental affinity boosts can one shot 95% of the enemies in the game. They are ridiculous.
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Mar 5, 2014 01:44
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Glazius posted:Have we met any Dark Knights who aren't complete assholes? Tartaros? He might lead village massacres and be part of an imperialistic organization who wages bloody proxy wars against developing countries but at least he's polite, even to his would be assassins.
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Mar 5, 2014 01:48
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I never saw the full dialogue between Oz and Denam here, I never knew how much he loved torture. He really reminds me of someone...
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Mar 5, 2014 03:19
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Neurion posted:I never saw the full dialogue between Oz and Denam here, I never knew how much he loved torture. He really reminds me of someone...
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Mar 5, 2014 03:52
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Neurion posted:I never saw the full dialogue between Oz and Denam here, I never knew how much he loved torture. He really reminds me of someone... See, my thoughts went to the Princess Bride. " Beautiful isn't it? It took me half a lifetime to invent it. I'm sure you've discovered my deep and abiding interest in pain. Presently I'm writing the definitive work on the subject, so I want you to be totally honest with me on how the machine makes you feel. This being our first try, I'll use the lowest setting."
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Mar 5, 2014 05:06
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chiasaur11 posted:See, my thoughts went to the Princess Bride. Not only that, he's pretty good at running away!
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Mar 7, 2014 14:54
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waah posted:Dear god I don't even wanna think of what it takes to rank level 8 of mediate. Steal  As for this map, it is a complete pain in the rear end. The terrain allows the enemy archers to target your weaklings with impunity, so you're already on defense trying to keep them alive from the get-go. There's a variation on this map in another route that I would call the worst battle in the game. At least, if you want to do it legitimately.
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Mar 7, 2014 23:36
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It's not in this route (or the PSP version at all), but one of the worst changes made for the remake was the removal of a hair-pullingly difficult one-on-one duel between Denam and Oz. Oz is one of the only unrepetant cold-hearted bastards in a game full of sympathetic villains, and it was just so satisfying to take him out like that. Also if you think this battle is bad, wait 'til you see its equivalent in the Neutral route. Rollersnake fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 02:10
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Staticpulse posted:Steal Yeah, everyone says that but, to rank overpower, you need the opponent to successfully parry, then you get to overpower it. Really can't think of any skill that would be worse to level to 8 because you have no control over setting up overpowered.
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Mar 8, 2014 02:38
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This is apropos of something. Cleric  "Sempai isn't my braid so beautiful!? Can I be back in the team? ...Sempai?" Races: Human, Winged RT: 24 Move: 3 Jump: 1/2 Weapons: Cudgels, Caldia, Lobber Armor: Light Magic: Divine Heal, Debuff removal, Dispel, Ease, Boon of Swiftness, Exorcism, Major Heal, Resurrection Support: Fortify II, Spellcraft IV, Resistance IV, Truestrike III, Trueflight III, Spellstrike IV, Dodge III, Sidestep III, Spell Ward IV, Constitution III, Insight IV, Expand Mind IV, Channeling IV, Other: Sanctuary II, Reflect Damage II, Absorb MP II* Action: Mother's Blessing, Mother's Mercy Special: *must be learned in another class I think this is accurate. I stopped using a Cleric in chapter 2 and am mostly going by what I saw NPCs using. Revealing that I stopped using clerics segues well into what I think. Unlike Warrior and Wizard which are technically competent, just outclassed, Clerics have a specific, narrow niche. They recover HP with Heal and Major Heal and remove status ailments. The problem is this niche is successfully replicated by the Field Alchemy skill. Mend Leaves and Mending Seeds out-perform Heal on HP recovery and the status recovery items don't need MP and actually have 2-panel range. It's also not unique in that a Valkyrie gets Heal and Ease while also doing Other Things. Knights get Heal and can use items. Then you get to special classes. So what does the Cleric have to itself? Major Heal is AoE healing, having actual HP recovery above Quench and a huge area for II and III. Resurrection is nice if you like to not use consumables but it costs 100 loving MP. The big thing here is Exorcism. Cleric is one of three classes to get Exorcism, besides Catiua's Priest and another special class we haven't seen yet. Exorcism is what makes undead bearable before elemental weapons, and still useful afterwards. So is this what redeems the Cleric? No, not really. Necromancy has a similar spell in Banish, and the Draconic spell Starfall exorcises undead. Though these require reagents, they're still spells not in Divine usable by noncleric classes. Also, Exorcism costs 34 MP. I mention MP costs because the Cleric doesn't have any way besides Expand Mind and Channeling to stretch its natural MP gain. No Meditate, no Conserve MP, no Malitza's Staff, nothing. They have horrible Mind Leaf addictions and demanding consumables to achieve basic functionality is a bad thing. So you've got to pick between healing and exorcising, and when your support class can't support, well, I believe you've got problems. Really, the Cleric's problem is that they can't contribute offensively. The closest they get is Boon of Swiftness which, while awesome, is 1) a bad thing to have an entire character dedicated towards doing 2) Valkyries get it too. You've got a generic class that can support even better and also has swords. Then you have several special classes. White Knights get Heal and status recovery spells, but they're in heavy arms and armor and have loving Velocity Shift, for one. Early game, sure, they're passable, when Heal's 40 HP recover is more than enemies deal, and the chapter 1 Nybeth battle needs some Exorcism. The only other place they could be useful is some battles in some Chapter 3s where there's a lot of undead and Heal and Exorcism as offense can shine. By the time you get to the optional dungeons and their piles of zombies, you've got better ways to deal with them and classes that literally replicate what they do but have Other Things. Also Grimoires Exorcisme cost 800 goth so it's not that hard to stock up on a few and have anyone capable of making a ghost go away in a pinch.
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Mar 8, 2014 03:50
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The only reason my clerics got as high of levels as they did was cause I wanted to see the dialogue from the unique characters that are clerics and I have a thing where I want to keep characters as their unique class..... .... Until I learned that unique characters keep their unique sprites even when you change classes. Coming from Ogre Battle 64 where unique characters only looked unique if you had them as that class. Now the cleric classmark gathers dust 
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Mar 8, 2014 04:59
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I barely use clerics anymore, only using one unique cleric as a backup if I need extra healing. My primary healer is a winged Rune Fencer equipped with a Lobber and Divine support magic like Instill Light and Boon of Swiftness. Getting that sweet winged movement and a lobber means I can easily toss healing leaves around the battlefield with relative impunity.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:39
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I must have been weird as gently caress then, I used two or three at all times. My offensive line was a wall of meat, two clerics and two archers.
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Mar 8, 2014 10:33
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Tithin Melias posted:I must have been weird as gently caress then, I used two or three at all times. My offensive line was a wall of meat, two clerics and two archers. Me too. Wanna start a 2 cleric club, no Catiua's allowed? Law Vyce is allowed in as well.
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Mar 8, 2014 11:39
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I would always keep one around for Exorcism II--something you'll strongly desire for some of the optional late game dungeons.It was hard to ignore how inefficient healing became, though, and did eventually opt for a lobber.
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Mar 8, 2014 16:15
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Nice job on the class overviews OFS. I will link them in the OP when I get a chance. I sat down to work on the next update only to remember that the next fight is one of those choose which side you want to attack form battles.  So I need all of you to pick a side, left or right. Picture for reference.
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Mar 8, 2014 19:32
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Right, because it looks harder and your suffering is our amusement.
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Mar 8, 2014 19:41
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Right, because you should get the Draconic magic scroll!
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Mar 8, 2014 19:44
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Right because Denam is always does the right thing
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Mar 8, 2014 19:51
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Right It won the coin toss.
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Mar 8, 2014 20:25
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Right, clearly!
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Mar 8, 2014 21:30
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Helmet 10 Warehouse posted:I sat down to work on the next update only to remember that the next fight is one of those choose which side you want to attack form battles. Ah yes, Denam's practiced "run straight at the enemy castle's gates head-on" stratagem I mentioned.  Right because, looking at the wheel of fortune, I did left in my Chaos run and apparently I didn't like it, as neutral went right again. Tithin Melias posted:I must have been weird as gently caress then, I used two or three at all times. My offensive line was a wall of meat, two clerics and two archers. Having a healer on hand isn't a bad thing, mind, and it'd make sense coming from other games to assume the dedicated healer class would be useful. The game, in the one time I've ever seen it directly give gameplay advice, says "keep one in every battle party" as well. It's not too obvious its main functions are handled elsewhere easily, and it being the only blue circle for Exorcism you have in chapter 3 certainly is tempting.
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Mar 8, 2014 21:46
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Left because chaos route.
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Mar 8, 2014 22:13
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I'm not sure whether or not I remember either of these battles, but right looks vaguely familiar, so I say go left.
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Mar 9, 2014 01:42
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The major issue with Clerics is that there is exactly zero scaling for healing spells. Clerics are completely outclassed by healing leaves later on, and yes they require Field Alchemy but frankly that's a useful skill to have on some dudes. 60 hp doesn't cut it. Exorcism is too drat expensive MP-wise and scrolls are not only useable by everyone but also ludicrously cheap. Poor clerics. 
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Mar 9, 2014 03:40
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theshim posted:The major issue with Clerics is that there is exactly zero scaling for healing spells. Clerics are completely outclassed by healing leaves later on, and yes they require Field Alchemy but frankly that's a useful skill to have on some dudes. 60 hp doesn't cut it. Exorcism is too drat expensive MP-wise and scrolls are not only useable by everyone but also ludicrously cheap. That's a valid criticism, but given all my alchemists were rocking Field Alchemy <whatever>, MP was never an issue. Ocassionally I'd use a turn to top up my mana, but otherwise I was throwing out spells left and right. When you get their TP heal that doubles healing done, they heal for a decent chunk with heal 2/3 (I think heal 2 is what, 60 hp? 80 hp? then TPx2 = Most of a health bar) Factor in boon of swiftness so what I was usually doing was turn 1, forming my ranks, chewing a bunch of magic leaves for my Octopi are bastards. I will admit though that by end game they're far too fragile, and chain casting exorcism with priests is more easily handled by just keeping about 30-40 scrolls of it kicking around for easy use. MonotoneMorgan posted:Me too. Wanna start a 2 cleric club, no Catiua's allowed? Law Vyce is allowed in as well. I never had a problem with Catiua  Besides, anyone with an avatar like that must be a classy person, so lets get that club formed. You wanna make the gang tag? Also, go Right
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Mar 9, 2014 07:44
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Thanks for the votes everyone. Looks like we're going right.
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Mar 9, 2014 17:21
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Tithin Melias posted:When you get their TP heal that doubles healing done, they heal for a decent chunk with heal 2/3 (I think heal 2 is what, 60 hp? 80 hp? then TPx2 = Most of a health bar) It's great until you realize how long it takes to get that TP, and if they get it any other way (i.e. getting smacked), they're probably healing themselves with that skill. That's the problem: if you're close enough to heal your units that are getting damaged, then you're close enough to get shot with an arrow, magic, or stupid Octopi.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:26
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Yeah, after a certain point it's tactically advantageous to ignore any need for healing save last-minute stuff and just blitz down all offenders.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:36
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waah posted:Yeah, everyone says that but, to rank overpower, you need the opponent to successfully parry, then you get to overpower it. Really can't think of any skill that would be worse to level to 8 because you have no control over setting up overpowered. That isn't necessarily true. If you give your own people Deflect/Parry, you can have them hit each other until you rank up Overpower to where you want it. It's still going to be very slow, but at least you can try to speed it up with Double Attack. You may also be able to recruit an enemy with some levels in Overpower, but I don't know if there's any generic NPCs that actually have it. As for the Cleric conversation, well, I already discussed my viewpoint on it. Items do the Clerics job just as good, if not better, than the Cleric itself. Especially if you give someone a Lobber. They're good early game when you don't have money to throw around on 99 Exorcism scrolls, but when you can buy all the leafs and seeds you want they may as well become something that can contribute to the battlefield offensively.
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Mar 9, 2014 19:01
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