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treeboy posted:More end of book thoughts Actually I am concerned that Adolin is being set up for a heel-turn here. A Love triangle has been introduced, everyone around him is better than him, and now he is murdering people. I think Adolin is going to be corrupted or fall or something. I hope not though, I like him  .
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Mar 10, 2014 03:01
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NinjaPete posted:Actually I am concerned that Adolin is being set up for a heel-turn here. A Love triangle has been introduced, everyone around him is better than him, and now he is murdering people. I think Adolin is going to be corrupted or fall or something. I hope not though, I like him I think murdering Sadeas was kind of a gently caress up on Adolin's part, as well. He was kind of out of cards to play, wasn't he? All of his political opponents now have superpowers from god, the Everstorm looms, and the voidbringers are back. He would just look stupid for trying to move against Dalinar again. Adolin opened himself up for big-time trouble by murdering a lighteyes, and in return he took out somebody who was rendered mostly impotent by the events of WoR anyway.
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Mar 10, 2014 03:12
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Law Cheetah posted:I think murdering Sadeas was kind of a gently caress up on Adolin's part, as well. He was kind of out of cards to play, wasn't he? All of his political opponents now have superpowers from god, the Everstorm looms, and the voidbringers are back. He would just look stupid for trying to move against Dalinar again. Adolin opened himself up for big-time trouble by murdering a lighteyes, and in return he took out somebody who was rendered mostly impotent by the events of WoR anyway. As someone mentioned (and makes a lot of sense) this could set him up perfectly for one of the creepier radiant orders. I'd forgotten about dustbringers, they're the ones everyone thought were kinda evil right? I need to go back and reread the epigraphs
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Mar 10, 2014 04:21
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Adolin better not become evil.  Sometimes a tiny bit of pragmatism is a good thing, instead of letting a guy who has gotten countless people killed out of ambition and no sign that he wouldn't do it again in a heartbeat run around as literally one of the most powerful men in their nation because ~honor~. What if the king really was a 100% putrid useless rear end in a top hat that would ruin everything and doom the world instead of redeemable as he turned out to be - deposing him may have been the right thing to do, despite all the hand-wringing by Syl. Somebody needs to be around that isn't magically bound to do the honorable thing without being a bad guy. 
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Mar 10, 2014 09:29
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Wolpertinger posted:Adolin better not become evil. You would kill so many spren.
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Mar 10, 2014 10:19
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Wolpertinger posted:Adolin better not become evil. i didn't get the sense that they were *actually* evil, more of a "hey they kinda do creepy-ish stuff which some people sorta superstitiously see as evil" Adolin stabbing a dude in the eye because he deserves it and then hiding his involvement kinda goes along with it. I'm sure there's an order that's whole shtick is "we do what we have to, sometimes that isn't pretty or *strictly* legal but its always Just." All the orders are supposed to agree with "ends don't justify means" but that doesn't mean he can't be "Chaotic Good" to use D&D parlance as for Elhokar, he's not an evil king, just an incompetent one. His wife on the other hand sounds like a real winner.
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Mar 10, 2014 15:31
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treeboy posted:i didn't get the sense that they were *actually* evil, more of a "hey they kinda do creepy-ish stuff which some people sorta superstitiously see as evil" Yeah, I didn't mean them, I meant the speculation that Adolin would ACTUALLY become evil. He could get a voidspren or something. Then again, that would actually be interesting if it doesn't mind control you into becoming a horrible monster like Steel Inquisitors - but after seeing what they did to the Parshendi I wouldn't count on it. And yeah, I was going 'what if' with the king, I know Elhokar wasn't evil. But, with all the crazy poo poo Shallan has done I don't think we need to be too worried.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:30
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There's also no allowance for "pragmatism" of the kind you're talking about anyway. It's no accident or coincidence that most of the antagonist factions right now are set up as "trust us we're doing the right thing, etc etc omelettes".
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Mar 10, 2014 19:56
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Wolpertinger posted:Then again, that would actually be interesting if it doesn't mind control you into becoming a horrible monster like Steel Inquisitors - but after seeing what they did to the Parshendi I wouldn't count on it.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:19
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Cicero posted:Rlain seemed to be doing ok in the form. Rlain was in stormform? I thought he hadn't switched over.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:20
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edit: ^^ Rlain hadn't switched over yet, the suggestion is that the transformation will *not* be optional at some point in the future, possibly when the Everstorm comes around the next "full" time (they summoned it on the plains? it didn't seem to have traveled the whole world. i'm really hoping Sanderson doesn't fall into the Mass Effect trap of a genuinely flawed, though pragmatic group, just becomes evulz. Taravingian's group, which from what I could tell was the group behind Graves and assassinating Elhokar/Kaladin, and is separate from Ghostbloods, which is separate from Amaram/Gavilar, has the hyper pragmatic approach. Sadeas had the hyper-selfish pragmatic approach (burn it all, rebuild it). And the other two we don't know enough about yet. Though Gavilar/Amaram just seem to want the heralds and radiants back and are willing to force the issue, probably something to do with the black spren of Gavilar's. Peronally I hope they all have the same end-game goal but have conflicting ideals and tactics, much the same way Wit tells Kaladin (Dalinar?) That he'd let Roshar burn if it means taking down Odium. treeboy fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 20:21
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treeboy posted:edit: ^^ Rlain hadn't switched over yet, the suggestion is that the transformation will *not* be optional at some point in the future, possibly when the Everstorm comes around the next "full" time (they summoned it on the plains? it didn't seem to have traveled the whole world. I kinda expect that only parshmen are forced into stormform/other voidbringer form, parshendi who already have a peaceful spren may not need to change. After all, if this wasn't the case, a certain plotline wouldn't make any sense some of the parshendi escaping Eshonai.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:12
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Walh Hara posted:I kinda expect that only parshmen are forced into stormform/other voidbringer form, parshendi who already have a peaceful spren may not need to change. After all, if this wasn't the case, a certain plotline wouldn't make any sense some of the parshendi escaping Eshonai. That makes sense. The reduced intellect and increased subservience from not having a bonded spren would make them more pliable to the Odiumspren. It makes me wonder if all of the listeners became parshmen after desolations in the past, or if they became parshendi, though I suppose the songs would suggest that they have a history of the more advanced forms. My current, probably baseless, theory is that the Everstorm is going to end up being a good thing in the very end. The destruction and devastation is going to happen anyway, as part of the rest of the Desolation, but the secondary source of stormlight might give the new Radiants the strength to actually take on Odium directly, especially with the outside assistance that they will likely end up getting.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:22
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Notorious QIG posted:Rlain was in stormform? I thought he hadn't switched over.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:24
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Whatever happens to Adolin, I just hope he doesn't pull a Gawyn on us.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:29
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Augster posted:Whatever happens to Adolin, I just hope he doesn't pull a Gawyn on us. Constantly make the wrong decisions and then get chumped in the end? God I hope not.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:37
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Walh Hara posted:I kinda expect that only parshmen are forced into stormform/other voidbringer form, parshendi who already have a peaceful spren may not need to change. After all, if this wasn't the case, a certain plotline wouldn't make any sense some of the parshendi escaping Eshonai. Well, you have to go out in the everstorm to get transformed. If the escaped parshendi know that, they can stay locked indoors.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:37
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Wolpertinger posted:Yeah, I didn't mean them, I meant the speculation that Adolin would ACTUALLY become evil. He could get a voidspren or something. Then again, that would actually be interesting if it doesn't mind control you into becoming a horrible monster like Steel Inquisitors - but after seeing what they did to the Parshendi I wouldn't count on it. I think its actually more likely that he'll bond a spren now -- there's a quote somewhere earlier, that all of the radiant's were broken people.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:44
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TheLordOfKraa posted:I think its actually more likely that he'll bond a spren now -- there's a quote somewhere earlier, that all of the radiant's were broken people. Spen love people with tragic back stories.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:47
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Ethiser posted:Spen love people with tragic back stories. Dalinar lost his brother and can't remember his wife but other than that, he's had a pretty nice life.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:50
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Furious Lobster posted:Dalinar lost his brother and can't remember his wife but other than that, he's had a pretty nice life. I was mainly being silly but he did get betrayed and left for dead by a man he considered a friend.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:53
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Furious Lobster posted:Dalinar lost his brother and can't remember his wife but other than that, he's had a pretty nice life. They don't actually give a lot of details, but as a young man he does appear to have been a murdering bloodthirsty bastard as well.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:54
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TheLordOfKraa posted:They don't actually give a lot of details, but as a young man he does appear to have been a murdering bloodthirsty bastard as well. Yes, that's quite true and in a culture that glorifies war, this trait would have gone far in making his previous life very enjoyable. Ethiser posted:I was mainly being silly but he did get betrayed and left for dead by a man he considered a friend. Yes but that's nothing compared to the pain that we've seen in Kaladin and Shallan's back stories; also I wouldn't really consider it part of Dalinar's backstory either.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:55
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Furious Lobster posted:Yes, that's quite true and in a culture that glorifies war, this trait would have gone far in making his previous life very enjoyable. It sounds like at the time he enjoyed it, but looking back he thinks 'holy crap I was a dick'.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:19
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Lobsterpillar posted:It sounds like at the time he enjoyed it, but looking back he thinks 'holy crap I was a dick'. And this makes for a painful back story in what sense? Regret for his previous actions? It hardly seems fair to compare this to our champions in grief, Kaladin & Shallan.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:23
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Don't forget that we have literally no idea what happened with his wife.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:25
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nucleicmaxid posted:Don't forget that we have literally no idea what happened with his wife. And neither does he.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:29
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i'm guessing we'll get a suitable backstory when we actually get to Dalinar's book. Something made him seek out the Old Magic, and we don't even know what his Boon was. He's also been going through a fair amount of poo poo in the last couple years with Sadeas, losing most of his men, his eldest son thinking he's crazy, and almost dying a half dozen times. Also Broken seems to be an ambiguous term. Kaladin's breaking is very emotional but also incredibly physical. He was beaten down as a slave and a bridgeman. Shallan by contrast has suffered (until recently) very little physical hardship, but it was almost entirely emotional. Dalinar was a bloodthirsty bastard who is touted as having cleaved through thousands of foes in order to bring Alethkar together. He then pulls a 180 and abandons that part of himself so hard that the Thrill makes him physically ill (the fact that the Thrill seems to be some effect of an Odium spren is even more interesting and could indicate when and how he began to be affected by his Bondsmith nature) in short there's no indication what kind of "hardship" or "breaking" needs to take place or how severe it needs to be. Obviously just stubbing your toe probably wouldn't work, but based on Dalinar's flashbacks in WoK, the Windrunner suggests he might visit Urithiru and be inducted so there's a chance even a common man could bond a spren edit: very true \/\/ treeboy fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 22:33
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It should be noted that we don't know what broke Shallan since she already attracted Pattern and started surgebinding before any of her flashbacks took place.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:34
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Walh Hara posted:It should be noted that we don't know what broke Shallan since she already attracted Pattern and started surgebinding before any of her flashbacks took place. I would have thought having her own mother try to kill her would have done that.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:39
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Question about Taravingian's motivations and Dalinar's brothers death. So did Taravingian's group kill Dalinar's brother, so the alethi would go to war and wipe out the parshendi? Why did the parshendi admit to killing to Dalinar's brother? How was that arranged? Was that a faction trying to commit suicide or something?
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Mar 10, 2014 22:40
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Hints and clues seem to suggest that they killed he king to prevent him from returning the Parsendi Gods. Their final act as a non-tainted people was, ironically, to reawaken their Gods.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:42
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Legacyspy posted:Question about Taravingian's motivations and Dalinar's brothers death. So did Taravingian's group kill Dalinar's brother, so the alethi would go to war and wipe out the parshendi? Why did the parshendi admit to killing to Dalinar's brother? How was that arranged? Was that a faction trying to commit suicide or something? I don't think that Taravingian was responsible for that. Gavilar (Dalinar's brother) was part of a light-eyes group that had the same motivations as Teft's parents, along with Amaran. He revealed his plans to the Parshendi, who were really less than thrilled about the plan, so they had Szeth do the murder thing. On a semi-related noted: I can really dig the Envisagers. It's a terrible idea, but it reminds me of the Christian sects that want to bring about the Second Coming and Armageddon. End the world, bring back the Heralds. A shame they don't realize what dicks the Heralds have become.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:46
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Superstring posted:I would have thought having her own mother try to kill her would have done that. Chicken and the egg problem. Since it seems like Shallan's mother wants to kill Shallan because she is a surgebinder.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:00
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Faction based question: What exactly do the Ghostbloods want? I get that they're opposed to Amaran, and therefor Gavilar's, plans, but I don't really know what they're up to beyond that. Are their goals aligned with the Diagram?
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Mar 10, 2014 23:03
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Meinberg posted:
Question: How many Heralds have we seen in the present day? I know the Justice-guy is one, but anyone else? Regardless I need to do a re-read soon. Has Sanderson indicated of he'll do annotations for WoK anytime soon like he did for the Mistborn series?
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Mar 10, 2014 23:39
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NinjaPete posted:Question: How many Heralds have we seen in the present day? I know the Justice-guy is one, but anyone else? Regardless I need to do a re-read soon. Has Sanderson indicated of he'll do annotations for WoK anytime soon like he did for the Mistborn series? As far as I'm aware, we've seen Nalan, who is the Judge Dredd. Sanderson has also said that the Herald Shallash has appeared, and it is speculated that she's the person going around, defacing art of the Heralds. Specifically, that she's been removing her own image whenever she sees it. I would love to see some annotations myself, but I doubt he'll put them out until the series is finished.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:44
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Meinberg posted:Faction based question: What exactly do the Ghostbloods want? I get that they're opposed to Amaran, and therefor Gavilar's, plans, but I don't really know what they're up to beyond that. Are their goals aligned with the Diagram? We don't know. Side note: when Gavilar died, he assumed that the assassin had been sent by the leader of the Ghostbloods (and said to Szeth he should tell them they're too late). NinjaPete posted:Question: How many Heralds have we seen in the present day? I know the Justice-guy is one, but anyone else? Regardless I need to do a re-read soon. Has Sanderson indicated of he'll do annotations for WoK anytime soon like he did for the Mistborn series? According to Sanderson, all Heralds where seen or mentioned in the first book.
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Mar 10, 2014 23:53
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NinjaPete posted:Question: How many Heralds have we seen in the present day? I know the Justice-guy is one, but anyone else? Regardless I need to do a re-read soon. Has Sanderson indicated of he'll do annotations for WoK anytime soon like he did for the Mistborn series? There's Taln who was in the insane asylum part, "Darkness" who is Nalan, Shalash is the woman who goes about destroying any representations of herself. The others probably might have been mentioned but not pointed out specifically. Personally I suspect that Ardent Shard Swordsman of being one cause he's too mysterious. e;f,b
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Mar 11, 2014 00:00
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Xachariah posted:There's Taln who was in the insane asylum part, "Darkness" who is Nalan, Shalash is the woman who goes about destroying any representations of herself. The others probably might have been mentioned but not pointed out specifically. Personally I suspect that Ardent Shard Swordsman of being one cause he's too mysterious. About your last point: The Ardent Shard Swordsman (Zahel) is very likely someone from Warbreaker, due to the use of color related metaphors and his talk about "vacations." His behavior, and the appearance of Nightblood at the end, signifies that he's likely Vasher, though when Sanderson puts out the second Warbreaker book, we may learn otherwise.
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Mar 11, 2014 00:07
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