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Excels posted:They look a little like the KKK and carry bird-spears.  It's called a bec de corbin, which literally means crow's beak.
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Mar 10, 2014 08:44
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The Guados are assholes and the Ronso are too. I don't know if those are that bad. 
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Mar 10, 2014 08:44
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Tae posted:What? He killed his father. He was already evil way before Tidus came to the world. Yeah but what actually came of that? All of Seymour's plans ended up never coming to fruition because Yuna and co would beat him before anything happened. They built him up as some evil scheming mastermind when he really didn't do all that much. I also don't see the problem with murdering all the Ronso  .
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Mar 10, 2014 08:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:JENOVA's basically as close as you'll get but she might not actually be the villain because the script's aloof about whether or not it was her in control or Sephiroth. She definitely was. You never actually engage with Sephiroth, just in that flashback after Midgar. He spends the rest of the game in lime green Jello at the Northern Crater.
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Mar 10, 2014 08:51
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Doesn't the horrible EU universe try to assert that Sephiroth was in-control, while one of the Dissidia games cocks that all up and says that Jenova may have been all along. Of course, Dissidia isn't canon to FF7's universe, but the EU for FF7 is awful so screw that stuff too. Basically, I don't know if S-E ever figured that out themselves.
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Mar 10, 2014 09:11
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:She definitely was. You never actually engage with Sephiroth, just in that flashback after Midgar. He spends the rest of the game in lime green Jello at the Northern Crater. But you kill her and then fight Sephiroth at the end of the game. Super, hopped up on JENOVA-cells Sephy, but it's still Sephy. It could be Him controlling people through her, or they fused into one being. It's left a bit ambiguous (though with that translation who knows if it's on purpose)
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Mar 10, 2014 09:17
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Sephiroth is the worst FF antagonist because people still mistakenly think he's cool.
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Mar 10, 2014 09:19
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The Ronso genocide thing is brought up in X-2 and is actually morbidly hilarious because Seymour's most evil act pretty much only fucks over the Guado
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Mar 10, 2014 09:23
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Excels posted:Also it's funny someone mentioned Dagger's practical adventuring attire in FFIX, since that's like one of the few games where Nomura had zero involvement with character designs. Queen Brahne's guard are worst, though. I'm sure those swimsuits offer great protection!  Oh wait no you can easily one-shot them all.
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Mar 10, 2014 09:51
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JENOVA is great because she's basically The Thing by way of Lovecraft. Sephiroth is an investigator who lost his last Sanity Points after discovering his inhuman ancestry, thus becoming a Cultist.
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Mar 10, 2014 12:29
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The GIG posted:The Ronso genocide thing is brought up in X-2 and is actually morbidly hilarious because Seymour's most evil act pretty much only fucks over the Guado X-2 has an amazing story and I will never stop saying it because of poo poo like this.
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Mar 10, 2014 14:16
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Well it's not like Seymour actually cared much for the Guado. His plan was to kill everyone on he planet so it seems unlikely he'd be troubled by the fact the Guado could potentially die in X-2. My favorite FF villain though is probably Gabranth. Like everything in XII he's much more low key, and his conflicts are all personal, which I think is part of why he is so awesome to me. He also has a great design and amazing voice-actor. And Hojo's the best villain of VII because everything is actually his fault. Sephiroth going nuts, Jenova starting to screw things up again, Meteor - all comes back to him. The dude was supreme douchebag of the planet and I love him for it.
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Mar 10, 2014 14:55
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Majorian posted:Sephiroth is the worst FF antagonist because people still mistakenly think he's cool. I wouldn't say he's cool, but he is a pretty effective villain in the sense that the game actually does a good job making you fear him, which is more than I can say for folks like Kefka and Kuja. I still get chills during his big scenes, despite having replayed the game however many times. Too bad that didn't really survive into the EU, but not much from the original game did.
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Mar 10, 2014 15:06
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I think GACKT is truly Final Fantasy's greatest villain
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Mar 10, 2014 15:08
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S-Alpha posted:I wouldn't say he's cool, but he is a pretty effective villain in the sense that the game actually does a good job making you fear him, which is more than I can say for folks like Kefka and Kuja. I think FFVI does a much better job of making you fear Kefka, considering the fact that he actually brings about the end of the world. And is a clown.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:37
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Majorian posted:I think FFVI does a much better job of making you fear Kefka, considering the fact that he actually brings about the end of the world. And is a clown. Pretend I'm replying to this post with Kefka's zoidberg laugh.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:46
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Majorian posted:I think FFVI does a much better job of making you fear Kefka, considering the fact that he actually brings about the end of the world. And is a clown. Plus, Kefka was doing horrid poo poo before that ever happened-before he even becomes a god, he poisons Doma and kills Leo and burns Thamasa.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:55
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The best FF villain is the emperor from FF2, because he's the one who essentially wins. I mean, you kill him in the end, but after he's literally killed off half the population.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:55
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Camel Pimp posted:The best FF villain is the emperor from FF2, because he's the one who essentially wins. I mean, you kill him in the end, but after he's literally killed off half the population. He then, if you assume the add-on content for the re-release is cannon, goes on to conquer hell where the dead heroes have to fight to beat him.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:58
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Camel Pimp posted:The best FF villain is the emperor from FF2, because he's the one who essentially wins. I mean, you kill him in the end, but after he's literally killed off half the population. Kefka did that and actually disfigured the planet and turned it into a barren wasteland.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:20
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Think you mean Heaven there. He already conquered Hell in the main game. I've seen "which FF villain is the best" stuff since I became an FF fan but man, they seem to get lamer and lamer as the years go by. At least the main ones. I enjoy a lot of the secondary antagonists and stuff. Hojo > Sephiroth Seifer/Adel > Ultimecia Seymour > ...uh, well maybe there's not ven a real "main villain" in X Gabranth > Vayne And FF2 and 4 barely have secondary villains, unless you count Leon and the Fiends. (I don't think Golbez really counts) And I still need to finish VI...Someday.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:20
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Camel Pimp posted:The best FF villain is the emperor from FF2, because he's the one who essentially wins. I mean, you kill him in the end, but after he's literally killed off half the population. Kuja blew up a planet and succeeded 100% in his schemes. It was only because Garland had hosed him over from the moment of his creation that his plans unravelled.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:24
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NikkolasKing posted:Seymour > ...uh, well maybe there's not ven a real "main villain" in X Yu Yevon and Yunalesca? Actually, isn't it more accurately it was the populations of Bevelle and Zanarkand who started the war in the first place.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:28
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Pureauthor posted:Kuja blew up a planet and succeeded 100% in his schemes. It was only because Garland had hosed him over from the moment of his creation that his plans unravelled. And he helped his immortal brother in the end. Not to mention Trance Kuja actually looks kinda bad rear end. Kuja was an awesome character ruined by his character design. Basically the opposite of Sephiroth.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:31
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Aurain posted:Doesn't the horrible EU universe try to assert that Sephiroth was in-control, while one of the Dissidia games cocks that all up and says that Jenova may have been all along. If I correctly recall, the devs said Dissidia is supposed to be canon to all games represented.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:41
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I think Sephiroth before he goes nuts was a good character, especially after Crisis Core. He's portrayed as well meaning if stoic as hell, him and Zack have some pretty funny interactions, and he thought Hojo was a fucker, like any sane person. Unfortunately Crisis Core also had Genesis get involved with Sephiroth, which kind of ruined any good stuff that Crisis Core's story contributed to the series.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:50
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S-Alpha posted:I wouldn't say he's cool, but he is a pretty effective villain in the sense that the game actually does a good job making you fear him, which is more than I can say for folks like Kefka and Kuja. I still get chills during his big scenes, despite having replayed the game however many times. Too bad that didn't really survive into the EU, but not much from the original game did. What I liked about Sephiroth was that he never saw himself as a villain. In fact, before the Nibelheim Incident, he was actually a pretty stand-up dude, even had a sense of humor sometimes. If you ignore certain parts of Crisis Core, you get a pretty decent picture of his original personality. When SOLDIER told him to hunt down Angeal, he flat-out refused because Angeal is his war buddy. So he did understand the concept of comradery and friendship. People looked up to him as a hero, Cloud and Zack wanted to be just like him, etc. Kefka actually has a pretty similar backstory to Seph; both respected generals in the military who went insane as a result of human experimentation, and deliberately brought about a world-ending cataclysm (for entirely different reasons, though). The only reason Seph's plan failed was because of Deus Ex Lifestream. Solice Kirsk posted:And he helped his immortal brother in the end. Not to mention Trance Kuja actually looks kinda bad rear end. Kuja was an awesome character ruined by his character design. Basically the opposite of Sephiroth. Kuja's design is effeminate, it doesn't "ruin" his character. (He was originally female in the script, but it was changed later to make him and Zidane "brothers".) In the game it's barely noticeable, I never even noticed the thong as a kid. Also he dresses like a dainty little poof because he is a dainty little poof. He presents himself that way. This is the guy who completely destroyed his home planet, and then attempted to wipe out all life at its source, just because he was mad that he would die someday. Excels fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 17:52
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I think we all know who the best villain in Final Fantasy is, and this is undisputed. It's Garland. It's Garland, guys!
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Mar 10, 2014 17:56
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NikkolasKing posted:Hojo > Sephiroth I'm liking this. S-Alpha brought up how effectively the game's writing makes you fear Sephiroth. I didn't fear Hojo, but I loving hated him. I hated his crazy guts.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:00
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Gologle posted:I think we all know who the best villain in Final Fantasy is, and this is undisputed. It's Garland. It's Garland, guys! Which Garland? I like chump Garland.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:00
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The Garland of your dreams.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:03
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Gologle posted:The Garland of your dreams. "Ooh Garland, you can knock me down anytime"
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Mar 10, 2014 18:05
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Mak0rz posted:I'm liking this. S-Alpha brought up how effectively the game's writing makes you fear Sephiroth. I didn't fear Hojo, but I loving hated him. I hated his crazy guts. Exactly. I remember the playthrough when I first found Vincent and brought him to confront Hojo at the end. I ended up feeling somewhat sorry for Sephiroth since he was clearly just a pawn of this unrepentant madman. It's very satisfying to beat him with Vincent. I think Sephiroth was an effectively done villain because he's the first one we really see become a villain. I saw so much bitching about the Kalm flashback in the FFVII LP thread, about how it's the longest cutscene ever, and blah blah blah. But I will never forget this scene and hearing "Those Chosen By The Planet" kick in. Whatever other flaws it may have had, I hope we can all agree FFVII had some amazing cinematic direction. Stuff like how just the vaguely ominous theme cuts out to silence and then kicks in with the full evil chorus, or how when Bizarro Sephiroth is defeated and the screen fades to black and all you hear are "the screams of the Planet" before One-Winged Angel kicks in. And even then it goes on and on for a few seconds before starting the actual fight, hitting just the right "epic" note for Sephiroth's new form to appear. Excels posted:I agree but please don't say "epic", we need to kill off that word forever. True, I need to look at a thesaurus for more adjectives. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 18:11
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I agree but please don't say "epic", we need to kill off that word forever.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:13
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Mak0rz posted:I'm liking this. S-Alpha brought up how effectively the game's writing makes you fear Sephiroth. I didn't fear Hojo, but I loving hated him. I hated his crazy guts. NikkolasKing posted:Whatever other flaws it may have had, I hope we can all agree FFVII had some amazing cinematic direction. Yeah, I'm not really talking about how successful he was as a villain or whatnot, but as a character, they sure as hell make you afraid of him. The first time you see him, he slices down poo poo you couldn't possibly fight even at your party's current level, and he - or what you're lead to think is him - has a tendency to leave bloodied corpses and destruction all around, and I have to laud Square for establishing a tone so well. It's too bad that I never had a chance to play Crisis Core, though. After Excels' post, I'm really curious to see how the game handled him now.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:17
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Wait, mentioning Sephiroth was the first villain we saw become a villain made me realize...what bad guys have we actually seen turning bad? The only one I can think of is Seifer and even then it's more like he got a evil talking to and then turned up later as an antagonist. The full "descent to villainy" we get in the Kalm flashback is almost unique for this series.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:19
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S-Alpha posted:It's too bad that I never had a chance to play Crisis Core, though. After Excels' post, I'm really curious to see how the game handled him now. He actually gets relatively little time in the sun as the game is way more focused on Genesis. He has a small arc about growing disillusioned and thinking about Jenova and then a thing which ruins the ridiculously awesome FF7 Cloud v Sephiroth confrontation so its not all positive. Really the only reason to play Crisis Core is for the final mission.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:20
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Barudak posted:Really the only reason to play Crisis Core is for the final mission. I love that they allow Zack to literally kill God deep within the core of the Planet, but three guys with machine guns? You're hosed.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:25
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also assuming 'modern' FF is 7+ I'm hard-pressed to name an antagonist/villain that's better than Kuja. Hell, I can't think of one better than Seymour. At least they fit into the setting, and get personalities, and have some pathos. 13's main villain was a Space Pope that didn't really do anything till the last hour of the plot and 12 had...someone I guess? Yeah Empower Dude. He was there I guess. Oh come on, I gotta stick up for Vayne here. He was a well done, fleshed out and believable antagonist. Just because he wasn't a Dragon Ball villain with plans of blowing up the world and killing every living thing doesn't make him inferior to the other hokey villains of the series. His goals are highly sympathetic, and you don't have to turn your brain off to have his motivations make sense. The game establishes him as cold as loving ice, so you fear him not because his power level is over 9000, but because he's ruthless. Not that I'm saying Kuja is bad, but Vayne deserves more than a brushoff. Seymour always bothered me because his plan was so full of stupid. First, he wants to become Sin, which he should know requires an actual close bond with the summoner. So he tries to force Yuna into a loveless marriage at gunpoint, because that will make her love him? The very foundation of his plan would never work. Next, he is a "living" example of why his plan wouldn't work anyways. You kill him over and over and he keeps coming back. That's because Spira is a world where death is pretty optional. It seems like half the cast are dead people that just won't go away. So how is killing everyone going to accomplish anything when a good percentage of the population will just come back as unkillable spectres?
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Mar 10, 2014 18:29
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NikkolasKing posted:Wait, mentioning Sephiroth was the first villain we saw become a villain made me realize...what bad guys have we actually seen turning bad? The only one I can think of is Seifer and even then it's more like he got a evil talking to and then turned up later as an antagonist. The full "descent to villainy" we get in the Kalm flashback is almost unique for this series. Seifer was seduced by his headmaster's wife who was controlled by an evil witch from the future. In other news, this is a special kind of Hell  : EDIT: Or was she controlled by a beefcake witch in space who was being controlled by an evil witch from the future? Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 18:29
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