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Furism posted:
Awesome! Can't wait to see my party move around by being stone rigid and bouncing up and down! My apologies for the most obvious joke possible. Actually, it's amazing how much the South Park game looks exactly like you're watching the show. Anybody that good at emulating something is probably great at what they do.
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Mar 8, 2014 17:23
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:19 |
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In case goons are interested, Adam Brennecke (don't remember his title on the project, but long-time programmer at Obsidian) is doing a Q&A/AMA of sorts on the Obsidian forums. I'm fairly sure at least some of you have forum accounts there.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:31
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:don't remember his title on the project Producer and programming lead iirc.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:49
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So what are the odds that we'll be able to setup the game such that if you highlight your party, you can click and hold on the left mouse button on the ground and they will continuously follow the cursor around while trying to stay in formation and the camera will keep centered on them Diablo style? Because while the RTS-style detached camera works well when your party is spread out or when you're fighting, it's definitely not ideal for just roaming around. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 9, 2014 |
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Mar 9, 2014 23:57
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Woops wrong thread.
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Mar 10, 2014 00:11
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Having just played through the stick of truth I am really impressed with the level of polish and small detail that went into that game. It makes me even more sure that pillars of eternity will be amazing. I feel like stick of truth (and even more so in the future pillars of eternity) will prove to everyone that the reason obsidian developed a reputation for sometimes releasing unfinished games had nothing at all do with their expertise or desires (but instead were just due to the way publishers contract out work). Obsidian gets RPG's, they get world building, they get fleshing out characters, they get the importance of good npc barks. I wish I could cyrogenically freeze myself so that I could go play pillars of eternity right now!
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Mar 10, 2014 04:22
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Obsidian has an A team and a B team, or how do they divide up their designers over multiple projects?
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Mar 10, 2014 04:27
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So, has there been any word on how they will be handling boss fights in this game? It's a shame how many developers these days scorn boss fights as something to be avoided or completely botch the job and make the boss far too easy or simplistic. I mean, if you're going to make a boss, they should be very lethal, have interesting tactics, and take strategy to kill. Bosses that can be killed through just queueing up the most basic attack you have over and over again are just lovely.
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Mar 10, 2014 04:31
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GreatGreen posted:So in a way it's like... Dark Souls campfires? All games are Dark Souls.
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Mar 10, 2014 09:38
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:In case goons are interested, Adam Brennecke (don't remember his title on the project, but long-time programmer at Obsidian) is doing a Q&A/AMA of sorts on the Obsidian forums. I'm fairly sure at least some of you have forum accounts there. And it's all nicely compiled right here!
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Mar 10, 2014 09:54
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namad posted:Having just played through the stick of truth I am really impressed with the level of polish and small detail that went into that game. It makes me even more sure that pillars of eternity will be amazing. I feel like stick of truth (and even more so in the future pillars of eternity) will prove to everyone that the reason obsidian developed a reputation for sometimes releasing unfinished games had nothing at all do with their expertise or desires (but instead were just due to the way publishers contract out work). Obsidian gets RPG's, they get world building, they get fleshing out characters, they get the importance of good npc barks. I wish I could cyrogenically freeze myself so that I could go play pillars of eternity right now! In the South Park thread a guy who works at Ubisoft said that when they came on board the game had been in the process of almost being rushed out the door by THQ before it was ready in a last ditch effort to save themselves from bankruptcy. We were that close to another Publisher-enforced rushjob being blamed on Obsidian.
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Mar 10, 2014 11:24
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Jerusalem posted:In the South Park thread a guy who works at Ubisoft said that when they came on board the game had been in the process of almost being rushed out the door by THQ before it was ready in a last ditch effort to save themselves from bankruptcy. We were that close to another Publisher-enforced rushjob being blamed on Obsidian. That's the first thing that makes me glad that THQ went under. If it's true of course, but it's probable.
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Mar 10, 2014 11:31
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Boss fights are a tough thing to get right. They must be, because there are so many badly designed ones. Off the top of my head, the worst boss fights I have ever played through are the ones from Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Prototype. In both of those games, bosses are not much more than regular enemies who spam the same two or three boring, obnoxious attacks over and over, and each boss has such an absurdly huge amount of health that players get bored and frustrated with the encounter long before they actually finish the fight. Personally, I've always liked bosses that fight in phases, where each phase has a different optimal tactic that needs to be employed against it than the last. Preferably, those tactics should be tactics that you have had to recently use in the game, such that the boss feels kind of like a final exam for the area you've just been through. I'm definitely not a fan of padding boss health to make the boss feel tougher or "more epic." I think that's one of those things that sounds good on paper, but doesn't really ever work out in actuality. The grandiose feeling of fighting a boss should come from other factors like the environment you fight in, what the boss looks like, the music that plays in the background, the culmination of other events leading to the boss, those kinds of things. The actual boss fights themselves shouldn't take too much longer than other fights in the game. As for the length, I'd say each phase should only really last around two or three times longer than any normal fight in the area. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 13:57
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Do we know if the PE team has grown now that South Park is released? Do they have more designers and writers etc. ?
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Mar 10, 2014 15:38
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 Boss fights should be dialog only.
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Mar 10, 2014 15:41
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GreatGreen posted:I'm definitely not a fan of padding boss health to make the boss feel tougher or "more epic." In a way that's what quite nice about the bosses you see in various console games like Zelda, Super Mario, Donkey Kong and so forth. The pacing of the boss fights in these games is very well defined as there are a set number of "hits" that need to be dealt. In many RPGs where the damage output is so much more variable due to leveling etc so that for one person the boss can be nearly insta-killed and then the boss health is balanced to make sure they have enough health to stick around to get at least a couple of attacks off in that case but then turn the fight into a slog for anyone else. That is not discussing the games where bosses (and heck even standard late game enemies) have been designed to be bullet/damage sponges (that is especially egregious in FPS games where, again, the damage output at any point in the game is much more under the control of the game designer, as it is in the platformer example). I do hope that most bosses have a possible talky resolution. That said I really do appreciate a good combat encounter in a CRPG and I don't think anyone is seriously arguing there shouldn't be climactic ones of those... As an aside though I do hope that if you do do a totally talky run some of the outcomes will be sub-par when compared to other alternative approaches (likewise from trying to make your fists do the talking all the way through). Munin fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 16:07
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Munin posted:In a way that's what quite nice about the bosses you see in various console games like Zelda, Super Mario, Donkey Kong and so forth. The pacing of the boss fights in these games is very well defined as there are a set number of "hits" that need to be dealt. I completely agree. This is also exactly why I'm always for giving the player XP for main quest progress only, while rewarding side quest progress or mob killing with stuff like money or loot or main quest shortcut accessibility only. By doing this, you basically minimize your possible player power gap, which allows you to get much tighter balance across all points in the game, assuming all other aspects of the game are well balanced also.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:17
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SunAndSpring posted:So, has there been any word on how they will be handling boss fights in this game? It's a shame how many developers these days scorn boss fights as something to be avoided or completely botch the job and make the boss far too easy or simplistic. I mean, if you're going to make a boss, they should be very lethal, have interesting tactics, and take strategy to kill. Bosses that can be killed through just queueing up the most basic attack you have over and over again are just lovely. They're probably going to play out like they did in the Infinity Engine games.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:58
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a slim pixie posted:They're probably going to play out like they did in the Infinity Engine games. That's kind of a broad spectrum. I guess it depends what feels right in Eternity's systems but I remember liking the boss with cronies style more than the one sole boss style. Mostly cause from a balance point of view a group always needs controlled in some way whether you are over or underpowered where a singular entity is tough to balance where there isn't a razors edge between a snore and a party wipe.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:26
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I think they should take a leaf out of Revengeance's playbook and give each boss a kickin' rad metal theme tune and a ridiculous design. Then you get to cut them into salami in a little cut scene at the end. Yes, this is optimal.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:36
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Most big RPG's tend to have some of both, right? Like, you'll have the guy with a bunch of cronies but you'll also have the big gently caress off dragon that doesn't think it needs mooks to fight a bunch of stupid hero folks.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:38
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GreatGreen posted:Boss fights are a tough thing to get right. They must be, because there are so many badly designed ones. Off the top of my head, the worst boss fights I have ever played through are the ones from Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Prototype. I feel like uniqueness is also a key factor in a boss fight. I mean, so many people make the mistake of making bosses that do the same exact poo poo as a regular enemy. Why not give them a unique mechanic? Like, say you're fighting the boss of a gang of thieves? Now, you could just make him a really nasty rogue with a lot of health, a good weapon, and some flunkies to distract you from him, but why not make him more interesting? How about having it so that every so often, he calls for back up and has his men booby trap the arena or gang up on someone he points out or protect himself from the others? Now you've got to choose between smacking up the boss man, or fighting off his mooks.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:10
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double nine posted:That's the first thing that makes me glad that THQ went under. If it's true of course, but it's probable. Since the game got delayed quite a bit it seems very probable.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:37
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SunAndSpring posted:I feel like uniqueness is also a key factor in a boss fight. I mean, so many people make the mistake of making bosses that do the same exact poo poo as a regular enemy. Why not give them a unique mechanic? Like, say you're fighting the boss of a gang of thieves? Now, you could just make him a really nasty rogue with a lot of health, a good weapon, and some flunkies to distract you from him, but why not make him more interesting? How about having it so that every so often, he calls for back up and has his men booby trap the arena or gang up on someone he points out or protect himself from the others? Now you've got to choose between smacking up the boss man, or fighting off his mooks. I agree, but there needs to be balance, otherwise you end up with WoW where each boss is a gimmick fight challenging designers to come up with 50 different declinations of "don't stand in the fire, dodge the acid spit" per extension.
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Mar 10, 2014 19:34
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SunAndSpring posted:I feel like uniqueness is also a key factor in a boss fight. I mean, so many people make the mistake of making bosses that do the same exact poo poo as a regular enemy. Why not give them a unique mechanic? Like, say you're fighting the boss of a gang of thieves? Now, you could just make him a really nasty rogue with a lot of health, a good weapon, and some flunkies to distract you from him, but why not make him more interesting? How about having it so that every so often, he calls for back up and has his men booby trap the arena or gang up on someone he points out or protect himself from the others? Now you've got to choose between smacking up the boss man, or fighting off his mooks. Noth the Glanfathan Plaguebringer yells: Rise, my soldiers! Rise and fight once more!
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Mar 10, 2014 19:43
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Furism posted:I agree, but there needs to be balance, otherwise you end up with WoW where each boss is a gimmick fight challenging designers to come up with 50 different declinations of "don't stand in the fire, dodge the acid spit" per extension. I know. Sometimes it's nice to just have a straight forward duel with a badass, like the Vergil fight in DMC 3.
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Mar 10, 2014 20:23
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For pretty drat epic in their way boss battles I would point to some of the more modern Ys games (...). Obviously not that good a guide for RTwP games. On that note, what are the memorable fights from games like BG for people around here? [e] Other aside, I really do like one of the Felghana boss tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsK5SdBBkvI Munin fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 21:11
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Munin posted:For pretty drat epic in their way boss battles I would point to some of the more modern Ys games (...). Obviously not that good a guide for RTwP games. Off the top of my head; Firkraag, Irenicus, all of the Accension ToB encounters were pretty distinct and enjoyable, I imagine the Icewind Dale series has some pretty good stuff there too, being a combat-focused title. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 21:14
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Munin posted:For pretty drat epic in their way boss battles I would point to some of the more modern Ys games (...). Obviously not that good a guide for RTwP games. Oath in Felghana remains one of the best action rpgs of all time, in no small part because it has boss fights easily on par in depth and fun to most character action games. In terms of memorable fights from Infinty engine games I really enjoyed pretty much all of the bhaalspawn fights in ToB, also just generally anytime you fought another adventuring party because they could use all the same tricks you could.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:21
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Haste kinda broke a lot of the bosses in Icewind Dale for me, but the battle with Yxunomei will stay with me for quite a while. Just a challenging, hectic, fun fight.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:22
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Haste kinda broke a lot of the bosses in Icewind Dale for me, but the battle with Yxunomei will stay with me for quite a while. Just a challenging, hectic, fun fight. I remember my first fight with Yxunomei all those years ago. The only surviving character was my bow ranger. That's when I learned that items on the floor do disappear after awhile  He couldn't possibly carry everything himself while trekking back to Kuldahar for resurrection of his compatriots.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:40
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Firkraag was the memorable one from BG2 for me. Mostly because he would wipe my party a lot. Especially early in the game. The most memorable encounter I had was a very early one. When you first run into him and I wasn't prepared to take him on at all. I thought what the hell I'll give it a shot. I spent 5 minutes in pause working out my strategy, unpause, and he immediately dies. I was very confused. I check my combat log and the first thing that happened was my mage cast chromatic orb, Firkraag failed his save and died. I don't know what the statistics are on that, but otherwise he would have totally wiped me.
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Mar 10, 2014 21:40
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Goodpancakes posted:Firkraag was the memorable one from BG2 for me. Mostly because he would wipe my party a lot. Especially early in the game. The most memorable encounter I had was a very early one. When you first run into him and I wasn't prepared to take him on at all. I thought what the hell I'll give it a shot. I spent 5 minutes in pause working out my strategy, unpause, and he immediately dies. I was very confused. I check my combat log and the first thing that happened was my mage cast chromatic orb, Firkraag failed his save and died. I don't know what the statistics are on that, but otherwise he would have totally wiped me. Statistically Chromatic Orb is one of the best death spells in BG2 because it might be -6 to save, but you can memorize enough you end up having a better chance than a few scant casts of higher level spells. Especially if combined with Greater Malison.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:36
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I always loved the Kangaxx the Lich fight because me and my friend played BG2 at the same time. Accidentally and independent of each other, we stumbled into his abode on the same day and he kicked both of our green asses with equal force. Afterwards, we kept talking and mostly jokingly complaining about it for quite some time. I was pretty young at that time so it took me few years before I managed to beat him without cheating but I will always remember it. I suppose the reason while I liked the fight so much is because it's an extra, hidden fight that isn't yet another thing to check off of your list on your way to the big bad. lordfrikk fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 10, 2014 |
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Mar 10, 2014 23:44
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Most of our "boss" fights will have minions in them because with 6 party members, it tends to make the combat more interesting. We may have a few solo bosses but the requirements on the AI tend to be a lot higher.
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Mar 11, 2014 00:10
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Drifter posted:
Boss fights are what happen when you fail the dialogue check 
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Mar 11, 2014 00:36
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 BAdler posted:We are not going to be doing an update this week. They will resume next week as normal.  J.E. Sawyer posted:The weapon balancing is still very rough. In general, fast weapons do a small amount of damage per hit but the most damage over time (though this can be heavily blunted by armor). Slower weapons do much more damage per hit and the least damage over time, but are much less affected by armor. Each type of weapon has its own special (though not necessarily unique) bonus as well. E.g. sabres inflict a short-duration damage over time effect, estocs and stilettos lower the target's armor by a flat amount, morning stars do either pierce of crush damage depending on what the target is more susceptible to (automatically), etc. J.E. Sawyer posted:We're doing some RP-related bonuses for paladins and priests but I'd rather wait to go into detail with them. They're not as in-depth as custom abilities for each order/deity. That's just too much work for us along with all of the other classes/races. I'm not sure I fully understand that next one. So ok you can choose to be Benevolent or Cruel at any point in the dialogue, great. No downside or punishment for reacting in a certain way at a certain point. But then, what is the reputation used for? J.E. Sawyer posted:We don't make reputation checks to see what personality options are available to you. Personality options are what give you your disposition reputations. NPCs react to those reputations after you build them. If there's an option to be a jerk in a node of dialogue, your previous disposition options don't gate that at all. If you spend half of the game being really benevolent and the second half stomping on kids' toys, you'll develop reputations for being sort of benevolent and sort of cruel. The former doesn't limit your ability to select choices that influence the latter.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:49
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Note that while we're not getting an update this week, the update next week coincides with GDC 2014 (the 18th will be the during the conference but before the public expo), and that a few months ago a careless uni webmaster let slip that an Obsidian game was to be announced at GDC this year. Also recall that Feargus had talked up having settled on a second KS game by March. Those two may not be related. But there's a chance next week's update could be something entirely new. Hoping for a sci-fi game, tbh
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Mar 11, 2014 09:06
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Furism posted:I'm not sure I fully understand that next one. So ok you can choose to be Benevolent or Cruel at any point in the dialogue, great. No downside or punishment for reacting in a certain way at a certain point. But then, what is the reputation used for? He's saying that options aren't gated based on your reputations, not that NPCs don't react to your reputations. You'll be always able to select cruel options even though you spent the entire game being a goodie-two-shoes. That's the gist of it. EDIT: Also, gently caress sci-fi, I'm hoping the new Kickstarter is inspired by cheesy 70s kung fu movies and has an appropriate soundtrack. Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 09:08
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:He's saying that options aren't gated based on your reputations, not that NPCs don't react to your reputations. You'll be always able to select cruel options even though you spent the entire game being a goodie-two-shoes. That's the gist of it. Right, that makes sense. I guess I'm too used of not even having the option unless I pass an invisible check.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:49
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