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lordfrikk posted:I always loved the Kangaxx the Lich fight because me and my friend played BG2 at the same time. Accidentally and independent of each other, we stumbled into his abode on the same day and he kicked both of our green asses with equal force. Afterwards, we kept talking and mostly jokingly complaining about it for quite some time. I've still never beaten Kangaxx without cheating.... because using Slayer Form is definitely cheating!
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Mar 11, 2014 11:23
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It's a fight that has to be cheesed, if not cheated through. It's one of those SCS-style fights, where the designer hid a specific tactical key that the player must rummage around and find if they're to have any hope of getting past it. At least Kangaxx is both entirely optional and really easy to miss if you don't already know he's there.
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Mar 11, 2014 11:34
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Basic Chunnel posted:It's a fight that has to be cheesed, if not cheated through. It's one of those SCS-style fights, where the designer hid a specific tactical key that the player must rummage around and find if they're to have any hope of getting past it. At least Kangaxx is both entirely optional and really easy to miss if you don't already know he's there. Yeah, it's more of a puzzle boss rather than a tactics boss. Once you know the key you're fine. Before you know the key it just repeatedly pushes your face in. As an aside, one thing I did like about the old Bioware is that it let David Gaider release an enhancement mods which make many fights in TOA tougher. I don't think that it would be as easy these days.
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Mar 11, 2014 11:45
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Basic Chunnel posted:Note that while we're not getting an update this week, the update next week coincides with GDC 2014 (the 18th will be the during the conference but before the public expo), and that a few months ago a careless uni webmaster let slip that an Obsidian game was to be announced at GDC this year. Also recall that Feargus had talked up having settled on a second KS game by March. Those two may not be related. But there's a chance next week's update could be something entirely new. This was exactly what I thought too. Feeling almost certain at this point that the next Obsidian KS game will be announced next week. So many signs pointing that way!
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Mar 11, 2014 12:01
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Back on the undead thing, would there be an unscrupulous employer who has his standard legion of bodyguards and minions, and they're all given the 'undead' treatment, so if they die in battle they can just stand back up and keep going until they get completely ripped apart? In game, how would this be represented? You fight the Guard, and as soon as he hits 0 health he transforms into a full health Undead Guard?
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Mar 11, 2014 12:27
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Munin posted:As an aside, one thing I did like about the old Bioware is that it let David Gaider release an enhancement mods which make many fights in TOA tougher. I don't think that it would be as easy these days. Well, that depends on the game dosen't it? I know ropekid released a mod for Fallout: New Vegas that made it more challenging.
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Mar 11, 2014 12:27
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Munin posted:As an aside, one thing I did like about the old Bioware is that it let David Gaider release an enhancement mods which make many fights in TOA tougher. I don't think that it would be as easy these days. Interesting thing that, though I won't profess to know the full story. They loved community modding and expansions so much that it was a focal point in developing Neverwinter Nights, where modding was number one priority, to allow people to essentially make their own adventure sets. But somewhere after development of NWN, legal trouble started cropping up, with community members modding in things like lightsabers, weapons from Fable and NWN2 and so on, which put a lot of pressure on Bioware, which is why I think they've locked down their efforts on later projects so much. The NWN Star Wars mod thing was especially problematic with the upcoming release of Knights of the Old Republic and it became considered against their own interest in allowing the community free tooling in the future. It's a sad situation, really.
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Mar 11, 2014 12:57
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zedprime posted:Statistically Chromatic Orb is one of the best death spells in BG2 because it might be -6 to save, but you can memorize enough you end up having a better chance than a few scant casts of higher level spells. Especially if combined with Greater Malison. Eh, spell memorization limits were more of a strategic than a tactical concern. You were limited to a one spell per round so while a chromatic orb might eventually succeed, in a challenging fight, trying to get lucky with something like that was usually a wasted spellcasting round. Primary resource in combat is actions, and that's why tactics like this don't really work all that well (and lead to complaints about how random dicerolls turn these games into reloadfests). But this talk about death spells got me thinking: BG2 had a pretty cool VFX for whenever something was killed by an instant death effect, but in general these games were pretty poor in the visual feedback department. That is to say, it was pretty hard to tell what was actually happening in a fight without following the combat log. Is this an issue PoE is going to address? Like, say, if my party is facing an enemy with high armor rating, can I figure it out by just looking at the fight for a while (enemy looks armored, it's apparent from the VFX that even strong attacks are turned into glancing blows, etc), or do I have to look at the combat log/tooltips to figure out that, no, I'm not just rolling low, this guy is pretty loving tanky?
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Mar 11, 2014 12:58
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verybad posted:Eh, spell memorization limits were more of a strategic than a tactical concern. You were limited to a one spell per round so while a chromatic orb might eventually succeed, in a challenging fight, trying to get lucky with something like that was usually a wasted spellcasting round. Primary resource in combat is actions, and that's why tactics like this don't really work all that well (and lead to complaints about how random dicerolls turn these games into reloadfests). Using the Firkraag example, with 2 mages there is a 95% chance you will kill Firkraag in under 7 rounds with Chromatic Orb spam, including opening with lower resist and greater malison. You need to be rolling with spell memorizing rings to have enough with the 2 mages to get to the 95% chance. Or like my last play through, 2 mages and a bard at which point you're at 5 rounds. To kill Firkraag in 5 rounds you need to do about 30 damage a round while trying to do anything at all with melee in between wing buffets. Easy by endgame I guess but not as silly. I guess the moral of the story for Eternity is in this day and age spergs are going to pick apart any game for silly stuff like that.
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Mar 11, 2014 13:39
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zedprime posted:Using the Firkraag example, with 2 mages there is a 95% chance you will kill Firkraag in under 7 rounds with Chromatic Orb spam, including opening with lower resist and greater malison. You need to be rolling with spell memorizing rings to have enough with the 2 mages to get to the 95% chance. Or like my last play through, 2 mages and a bard at which point you're at 5 rounds. The neckberding is strong with this one. Which is a compliment, really. 
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Mar 11, 2014 14:00
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Kangaxx was all about contextual 2E knowledge. Either you were aware that liches of his power were immune to weapons with less than +5 enhancement, or you got owned. Either you were aware that Melf's Minute Meteors bypassed magic resistance/AC, or you got owned. All of that was like catnip to me when BG2 came out.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:13
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frest posted:Kangaxx was all about contextual 2E knowledge. Either you were aware that liches of his power were immune to weapons with less than +5 enhancement, or you got owned. Either you were aware that Melf's Minute Meteors bypassed magic resistance/AC, or you got owned. All of that was like catnip to me when BG2 came out. Yeah. It would be great if there's nothing that requires any outside knowledge besides reading the manual, because that poo poo is bananas.
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Mar 11, 2014 15:40
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frest posted:Kangaxx was all about contextual 2E knowledge. Either you were aware that liches of his power were immune to weapons with less than +5 enhancement, or you got owned. Either you were aware that Melf's Minute Meteors bypassed magic resistance/AC, or you got owned. All of that was like catnip to me when BG2 came out. 
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Mar 11, 2014 16:57
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There were strategies other than Step 1: Scroll of Protection from Undead, Step 2: Victory?
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Mar 11, 2014 17:02
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VanSandman posted:Yeah. It would be great if there's nothing that requires any outside knowledge besides reading the manual, because that poo poo is bananas. Personally, I hope that in order to beat a boss fight series we have to know about a 1976 Gary Gygax quote from an interview in the ChiCity Hawk, a local Chicago-based rpg enthusiast biannual newsletter. Because that's the true test of a fan of a game, knowing about completely random things that wouldn't be explained in the game itself. A true game is not self contained. Plebes. 
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Mar 11, 2014 17:09
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Wittgen posted:There were strategies other than Step 1: Scroll of Protection from Undead, Step 2: Victory? There are 50 ways to kill your Kangaxx!
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Mar 11, 2014 17:39
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For Kangaxx the only way I beat him is spamming summoning spells and blocking him in a ring of summoned creatures. Don't care if he imprisons those, because I got more more where they came from. But even so Kangaxx is a terribly designed bossfight, mostly because Imprison is one of the worst designed spells in the history of the genre - and that's ignoring that he gets a special version of it that's even worse than normal.
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Mar 11, 2014 18:55
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Furism posted:Right, that makes sense. I guess I'm too used of not even having the option unless I pass an invisible check. NPC: "I can't believe she rejected me! My family bloodline will be broken! What am I supposed to do now?" 1. "I will find someone else for you, a more suitable match. I'll spare no expense and scour all the Dyrwood if I have to!" [Benevolent - Average] 2. "You are clearly suited to bigger and better things. The duc is looking for an ambassador to Rauatai. I'm sure you could easily take the position." [Diplomatic - Minor] 3. "Well, you could weep into your beer about it like every other heartbroken would-be lover. If you give up this easily your bloodline deserves to die." [Cruel - Average] 4. [Shrug] [Stoic - Minor] NPC: "What are you doing in here without an escort? Wait - drat you, how did you get in here in the first place?!" 1. [Intellect 14] [Lie] "Through... the side door. It was ajar and when I knocked I thought I heard someone say to come in. I apologize if I was mistaken." [Diplomatic - Minor] 2. "Charm, guile, maybe a little force. I find one of those three is always the key to opening any door." [Clever - Minor] 3. "Try asking again, this time with a kinder tone, or I'll bury you. Understand?" [Aggressive - Average] 4. "I won't deny I broke in through the side door. I know the thayn is hiding evidence in his study and I'm not leaving without it." [Honest - Average] In those scenarios, your reputation doesn't have anything to do with being able to select the responses. In the second scenario, only your Intellect is used to gate the first option. How people react to you IS based on your reputation. So, for example, if you picked 1. in the second response, the dude might be swayed and say, "Hmm. Well, you are mistaken. The thayn isn't here today and I'm afraid we aren't taking visitors. Please follow me to the front..." But let's say you have a well-established reputation for being Deceptive. His response may be, [Deceptive] "Hmm. Well, you are mist- Wait a minute, aren't you <CHARNAME>?" His momentarily confused face twists into an angry sneer. "Well, it looks like your poison tongue has finally caught up with you. You'll regret breaking into the thayn's home!" These scenarios are completely fabricated, but I hope they illustrate the basics of how the system works.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:51
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Oh my. That sounds lovely. 
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Mar 11, 2014 19:56
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rope kid posted:But let's say you have a well-established reputation for being Deceptive. His response may be, [Deceptive] "Hmm. Well, you are mist- Wait a minute, aren't you <CHARNAME>?" His momentarily confused face twists into an angry sneer. "Well, it looks like your poison tongue has finally caught up with you. You'll regret breaking into the thayn's home!" Wait, doesn't that mean that characters who are good at deception get penalized for doing what they're good at a lot? Or do you only get a "deceptive" reputaiton from failed deception checks, or something? e: quote:[shrug]
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Mar 11, 2014 20:47
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LogicNinja posted:Wait, doesn't that mean that characters who are good at deception get penalized for doing what they're good at a lot? Or do you only get a "deceptive" reputaiton from failed deception checks, or something? Looking at the example, note you gain a diplomatic rep for the lying so presumably deceptive rep comes from getting caught in a previous lie, not from psychic NPCs.
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Mar 11, 2014 20:52
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zedprime posted:Looking at the example, note you gain a diplomatic rep for the lying so presumably deceptive rep comes from getting caught in a previous lie, not from psychic NPCs. You're right, I missed that. Good way of handling it.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:04
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LogicNinja posted:Wait, doesn't that mean that characters who are good at deception get penalized for doing what they're good at a lot? Or do you only get a "deceptive" reputaiton from failed deception checks, or something? [Obscene gesture pointing in direction of genitals] [Aggressive - Minor]
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Mar 11, 2014 21:14
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Has there been word of an estimated play time on this? I don't have time for the 100-150 hour marathons like Baldur's Gate 2 any more because I am grown up. But this game looks like the sort of thing I can spend two months playing and really enjoy and appreciate the length of.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:22
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Won't know until they go content-complete but the Endless Paths themselves are already pretty substantial at this point in terms of playtime iirc.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:41
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AnonSpore posted:[Obscene gesture pointing in direction of genitals] [Aggressive - Minor]
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Mar 11, 2014 21:51
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Are the [minor] and [average] things chance of failure, success or something else entirely?
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Mar 11, 2014 21:56
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Since it's hard to say how "[shrug]" could succeed or fail, I would assume it's the magnitude of the change in that reputation.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:03
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Basic Chunnel posted:Since it's hard to say how "[shrug]" could succeed or fail, I would assume it's the magnitude of the change in that reputation. It turns out [shrug] is actually analogous to [obscene gesture pointing in direction of genitals] to Glanfathans?
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Mar 11, 2014 22:06
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Basic Chunnel posted:Since it's hard to say how "[shrug]" could succeed or fail, I would assume it's the magnitude of the change in that reputation. The other NPC doesn't believe your causal distain? Call it a Squall check.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:06
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LogicNinja posted:Wait, doesn't that mean that characters who are good at deception get penalized for doing what they're good at a lot? Or do you only get a "deceptive" reputaiton from failed deception checks, or something? If it's in line with the rest of the game's philosophy, you'll get penalized for it in some situations and rewarded for it in others. If you were only ever rewarded for your reputation, there'd be no benefit to neutral responses.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:07
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Basic Chunnel posted:Since it's hard to say how "[shrug]" could succeed or fail, I would assume it's the magnitude of the change in that reputation. Ahh, rep gain. That makes very much sense.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:08
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Then again maybe Rope Kid just came up with a bad example.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:17
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rope kid posted:These scenarios are completely fabricated, but I hope they illustrate the basics of how the system works. That sounds p. cool to me.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:30
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Mordaedil posted:Interesting thing that, though I won't profess to know the full story. They loved community modding and expansions so much that it was a focal point in developing Neverwinter Nights, where modding was number one priority, to allow people to essentially make their own adventure sets. Did Bioware really have legal trouble over mods? Given the shear volume of crazy poo poo pumped out for Elder Scrolls games that seems unlikely. I always figured it was more of a thing where mod tools are expensive, consoles were the focus, and some exec at Bioware (*cough* EA) made the decision to not support modding.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:48
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So I guess the 10 Dispositions are: 1) Aggressive 2) Benevolent 3) Clever 4) Cruel 5) Deceptive 6) Diplomatic 7) Honest 8) Passionate 9) Stoic 10) ???
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Mar 11, 2014 23:04
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Seductive, obvs
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Mar 11, 2014 23:17
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Humorous?
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Mar 11, 2014 23:18
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Octo1 posted:So I guess the 10 Dispositions are: 10) Shrug
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Mar 11, 2014 23:18
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Octo1 posted:So I guess the 10 Dispositions are: Goatse.
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Mar 11, 2014 23:20
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