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Diogines posted:Minivote if you wish to ask this. Ishamal encouraged you to not make the presence of Melachim known, if they were trying to hide, telling you if they were trying to be unseen, they had a purpose. Not that you have to obey him, you certainly can, but since this came up previously, sound off if you want to ask this or not.  1.  2. Task Manager posted:K Changing my vote to this. It's got no chance of winning, but it's the best option. Hell, it's not even lying when we tell dad we found the merchant and told him to stop. I've redacted my earlier vote LLSix fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 02:37
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Angela Christine posted:There is no special danger in Indor going to collect from the dead 'taurs herself. The danger is only for any "respectable" man who collects them. True, but I'd wager if she does go on her own or sends a less respectable guy to do it this time, whoever is assigned K is going to be expected to dig into the past few months a little deeper. If push comes to shove, I dont like the odds of someone not leaking something important. Hence why the cleanest way, in my opinion, is to tell her to leave this one alone, and handle this situation on our own, making up a believable story. I feel bad about lying to Tudiya - but this isnt demon sacrifice, it's El sanctioned potions and our old man just doesn't like witches. Basically Tudiya thinks rock 'n roll is the devil and we're hiding our Elvis Presley albums under the bed.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:37
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HiHo ChiRho posted:I'm going to ask this, and maybe you and some others without the huge hardon for El/Tudiya/Zepath/Ishamal can give a bit more perspective: Well, I think it's obvious based on what we saw during the battle that all the El prayers bring out the melachim, those robed fellows. We're told that El doesn't intervene directly, so either he sent them, or El doesn't exist and they are part of some angel commune arrangement where public capital = faith in El = power, which they distribute. I just think El either doesn't exist, or is poo poo. Maybe he should send some melachim to tell people to stop slavery and give everyone equal rights. Part of my initial reaction against El was that the majority of everyone wanted to pray to him so badly at the drop of a hat. It was an amazing thing, and though it seems to be more justified these days, it's still irksome to me to see people voting sometimes to pray, literally just to pray, for our action in certain votes. I also find the general zealotry to be distasteful. I think Asherah is a more interesting god(demon, whatever you'd like to call it). Maybe El doesn't approve of all the poo poo stuff in Enkidel's society, but then there is also the vast majority of posters that say we have to adhere to tradition. We just have to. Tudiya would be disappointed. So. Welp...gently caress that. I don't know what we are. Son of a melachim, maybe? Son of a demon? Maybe there is no actual difference between those two things.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:41
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They're not necessarily Enkidel tested, El approved potions. The priests just examined them and found no evil in them. Indor's magics are not approved by El's followers (we can't speak for El except for the fact that El nor the Melachim gave them to Labaras as accepted teachings). I feel Indor is like the grey Jedi in KOTOR2, not evil but not entirely a good person either.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:43
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quote:I saw no blue vapor arise from the women who died. Are their souls lost to El? quote:"Minotaurs do not have souls, only men have souls." I believe Tomn was asking about the fate of the catives here, not the minotaurs. Although, that was a fairly large list of questions to go through, so I can understand missing a few details. Still, I think I can probably handle this one for you, Dio. Enkidel: I saw no blue vapor arise from the women who died. Are their souls lost to El? Tudiya: I do not know. Ask Ishamel about such things.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:46
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Rahul posted:I believe Tomn was asking about the fate of the catives here, not the minotaurs. Although, that was a fairly large list of questions to go through, so I can understand missing a few details. Yeah, I was asking about the women. Though Rahul is also right about how Tudiya probably doesn't know diddly. It's funny - anyone remember back during the manhood trial we asked him all sorts of things and hoovered up a whole boatload of knowledge, and now he just doesn't have that much more in terms of knowledge to teach us? Enkidel is starting to grow up. On a side note, some folks mentioned that we went with Indor for the cash. I believe this is probably incorrect - we went with Indor because Aaron was terrified about the possibility that we'd get ourselves and our men hosed up trying to hunt monsters without being Mighty, and we wanted to hedge our bets against the possibility of our troops getting hurt or wiped out. It was the healing potions and the charms that persuaded us to do business with her, back when we weren't sure how the Balls would shake out - the money and the regular supplies was something Indor cared more about, I think.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:07
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Can we ask around the merchants for any new news from those that have been to Ibleam recently? As in ask them if there seemed to be a change in the 'tone' of the city, if it seemed shadier or different or the like Had a brief thought that the 6 captives may have been tribute (a gift/bribe?) extracted from Ibleam in exchange for not attacking the city e: It might also be possible, if Ibleam is really this wicked city, that Barkofs 'banditry' in the are is his way of trying to amend for being deceived by Bareen- I mean, he might be a traitor to his city (although if he was you'd think he'd have helped her fight Tudiya or something) but he's done nothing to prove that he's actually 'evil'- so what if he thinks El doesn't exist as per the orthodoxy, neither do we pretty much. alpaca diseases fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 03:09
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If we make up a story and lie to Tudiya about 'some merchant', he's still going to want to know which merchant. He's not just going to take our word for it, at the least I expect he'd want to know just to ensure that nobody sells to him anyway, as an untrustworthy person, or to check and see if it even was somebody they regularly sold to. What do we say when he questions us? Do we just refuse outright to tell him? Say that he can't be trusted and he just has to take us on faith? Maybe that we promised the merchant we wouldn't say anything? That one might pass, but he won't be happy about it.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:21
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No to asking about the Melachim. I think we can figure out what's going on, and I don't think we need to let everyone know we're some kind of heretic just yet.HiHo ChiRho posted:What do you think is going on when Enkidel prays to El or fights to El and things happen? Enkidel is drawing upon his own energy. This is why Ishamal mentioned burning ourselves up when we did the dog thing. We're young and haven't built up enough life force to burn, so we're risking ourselves whenever we do something. However, I believe we should take risks when it's for a good cause, and we're ours to risk. I believe any references to El are largely coincidental, since there's a large group of people who shout El's name regardless. quote:What do you consider El to be? Not sure, but I'm tending toward some sort of faith silo. More complicated answer: He could be the personified "essence" of those faithful to him. If Baitel also worships El, maybe he's bigger than just the city. I think Asherah is the personification of Athar's people (and maybe others, if they worship her?). They're "angels" or melachim, or whatever, but not identical to each other. quote:What are we? Not sure.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:30
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HiHo ChiRho posted:They're not necessarily Enkidel tested, El approved potions. The priests just examined them and found no evil in them. Indor's magics are not approved by El's followers (we can't speak for El except for the fact that El nor the Melachim gave them to Labaras as accepted teachings). I feel Indor is like the grey Jedi in KOTOR2, not evil but not entirely a good person either. That's true too. Not necessarily El sanctioned - just that El's men checked her out and she seems in the clear, even if they don't like her much. Theglavwen posted:If we make up a story and lie to Tudiya about 'some merchant', he's still going to want to know which merchant. He's not just going to take our word for it, at the least I expect he'd want to know just to ensure that nobody sells to him anyway, as an untrustworthy person, or to check and see if it even was somebody they regularly sold to. I was thinking explain to him it was a merchant we had never seen before, heavily guarded, but they backed down when presented with the idea that the king of Zepath was going to put his foot up their rear end if the witch continued to be well supplied. He'll be disappointed we couldn't bring them to justice, but when the monster bits to Indor dry up and it appears we got results, I doubt he'll care much longer. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 03:33
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Tsyni posted:Well, I think it's obvious based on what we saw during the battle that all the El prayers bring out the melachim, those robed fellows. We're told that El doesn't intervene directly, so either he sent them, or El doesn't exist and they are part of some angel commune arrangement where public capital = faith in El = power, which they distribute. It is pretty funny how a CYOA about religions caused people to become zealots when choosing votes. I can tell you, at least from my perspective, is that I don't want to rock the boat too harshly at this point. It is obvious that something is off with the orthodox religion of El, but we don't know exactly what yet, aside that slavery exists and that magic exists outside of the religion, either malevolent like Asherah, Zviv or Bareen or neutral parties like Indor and Puabi. Is society in the city-states like Zepath and Baitel like what Labaras intended? Hard to tell at this point. And why the gently caress did we find two demonic dens so close to Zepath? We got poo poo on by Ish and Smattass making us choose whether or not to sterilize ourselves. We basically got the demand that God gave to Abraham to kill his son, abeit we had to go through with it. It told us one major thing, above the possibility that our kids could destroy the world: Humans have choices in this world. They were really pushing us to do it, but we were never compelled physically or mentally to accept the demand. We had to make it ourselves. So you are right in that we have no mandate to follow Tudiya or Zepath societal norms in our actions, and I agree we should push the boundaries of what is going on, but not yet. We are still growing into our innate supernatural abilities, and I would rather not rock the boat right now until we have secured for ourselves the ability to survive, mostly monetarily and definitely should we do something that compels Tudiya or Ishamal to attack us. I'd rather keep Jalitha, Ishamal, Snarls and Naomi, because they are some of the only people in our lives who love us for who we are as a normal person and not as the MM we are (or are going to be). They are likely going to be some of the few people we will ever be able to connect to to keep us human at a level, given the things we certainly will be able to perform. tl;dr I'm with you in sentiment, but slow your roll.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:34
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Let's just tell Tudiya and face the music. Maybe use some of our sterling rhetorical skills we trained all those years. Then we don't need some complicated bullshit plan. If we get banished...guess what! We get to go off on the adventure that we've always dreamed of. Does this have zero appeal to people?
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Mar 18, 2014 03:36
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Roguish fish worshiper! You'd have us venture into the wastes without our balls? 1. A Humility is no virtue in Zepath 2. M Let us spend some time alone in the wilderness growing wild-wise and strong! No to asking about the figures we saw touching shoulders during the battle Althair fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 03:40
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HiHo ChiRho posted:tl;dr I'm with you in sentiment, but slow your roll. This is an interesting considering there are maybe 4-5 voters that seem to be on the same page as I am (at least voting-wise, maybe only 2). The more we stick to the status quo the more invested in it and the harder it's going to be to divest ourselves from it. Several brand new posters read the thread for the first time and come out El converts. So I will continue voting with my fast roll. I basically agree with you for the most part, I just think the game will still be incredibly interesting if we say to hell with this crap and wander off for adventures. Look at how crazy the last game was.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:43
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Tsyni posted:Let's just tell Tudiya and face the music. Maybe use some of our sterling rhetorical skills we trained all those years. Then we don't need some complicated bullshit plan. If we get banished...guess what! We get to go off on the adventure that we've always dreamed of. Does this have zero appeal to people? I've moved to be clean to him, and just appeal that we were selling the monster bits to Indor out of mercy for the poor who had to purchase such healings since they could not afford the prices of the temple, or to the fact that El is obviously superior and if the witch was going to pay good money for monster bits for her "magics" who are we to say no to selling? Tsyni posted:This is an interesting considering there are maybe 4-5 voters that seem to be on the same page as I am (at least voting-wise, maybe only 2). The more we stick to the status quo the more invested in it and the harder it's going to be to divest ourselves from it. Several brand new posters read the thread for the first time and come out El converts. Fair enough, I just prefer to wait till we are Aaron or Tudiya level in power before we set off if we had to go into exile (which, in my opinion, seems likely inevitably).
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Mar 18, 2014 03:53
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Tsyni posted:Let's just tell Tudiya and face the music. Maybe use some of our sterling rhetorical skills we trained all those years. Then we don't need some complicated bullshit plan. If we get banished...guess what! We get to go off on the adventure that we've always dreamed of. Does this have zero appeal to people? Frankly I've been consistently voting to stop dealing with Indor since about 10 minutes after we first met her. The only reason I wanted to see her in the first place is that Tudiya was coming across as a bigger dick than intended. So I'm happy with any excuse to reduce our involvement with her.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:53
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LLSix posted:Frankly I've been consistently voting to stop dealing with Indor since about 10 minutes after we first met her. The only reason I wanted to see her in the first place is that Tudiya was coming across as a bigger dick than intended. So I'm happy with any excuse to reduce our involvement with her. The most interesting thing about Indor is that she does not appear malevolent, but she can do magical things (the charms that glow, etc), and Tudiya hates her. This just points to her harnessing power that the El orthodoxy thinks should only be theirs, and that everything is not as Tudiya has presented to us when it comes to El. Investigating this aspect seems to be one of the most interesting things in the game, to me.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:58
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Task Manager posted:I was thinking explain to him it was a merchant we had never seen before, heavily guarded, but they backed down when presented with the idea that the king of Zepath was going to put his foot up their rear end if the witch continued to be well supplied. I figure that's only going to work if we can believably say we wouldn't recognize a regular, prominent (by heavy guards) merchant who deals in monster parts in Zepath. I honestly don't know if that's plausible, how many merchants come through on a regular basis? By Tudiya's logic, whichever merchant this is is one that the Mighty Men regularly sell to, surely he's familiar with all of them, and I wouldn't be surprised if, at the least, he wants us to point this merchant out, even if we didn't personally recognize him. Tudiya thinks someone has been lying to him, some vetted merchant who promised to sell to temples but has instead taken his/his Might Men's loot and sold to Indor. I think he's personally going to want to know who it is, and to ensure that they don't get any more commerce.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:27
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Tomn posted:I saw no blue vapor arise from the women who died. Are their souls lost to El?
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Mar 18, 2014 04:33
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Badassery does not require the removal of subtlety. The plan I suggest is to go alone with Snarls to go hang out at the minotaur camp. We don't want witnesses. I honestly think Tudiya might suspect us. He's not stupid. Work through an intermediary to get a message to Puabi to discuss things in private. We might need to wear a cloak and talk in a crowded tavern or just go out in the woods or however we have to do it to get her alone and with reasonable assumption that we aren't followed. Have her go gather the minotaur stuff. It works out for her since she can recover a large amount of useful stuff for Indor, and it shifts potential suspicion off of us. Also while I like Paebel, if it ever comes to it he is our fall guy. We can't afford to lose our support structure at this juncture. Tl;dr Clandestine meeting with the anime waifu, go monitor the dead minotaurs with a plan for Puabi to come retrieve all the materials independent of us. If she comes in and we can just watch her do her thing, obviously Indor has an apprentice who is just going around collecting monster bits herself. Diog, do we know if Tudiya knows about Puabi? If she's currently an unknown, she can easily be used to explain how Indor has been maintaining supply. Edit: Vote updated in a later post. ArbitraryTA fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 04:34
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1. E 2. Voting P. But the balls will follow us, we will scout a day ahead. Also voting YES on telling Tudiya of the Melachim or people walking among us. Nolaterif posted:No to asking about the Melachim. I think we can figure out what's going on, and I don't think we need to let everyone know we're some kind of heretic just yet. How is it heretical to tell Tudiya "Hey I saw some figures walking among us, touching us on our shoulder like the priests did with the ashes of sacrifice. Those who were touched were empowered with extra strength. What's up with them?" Lanky Coconut Tree fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 04:34
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Tsyni posted:The most interesting thing about Indor is that she does not appear malevolent, but she can do magical things (the charms that glow, etc), and Tudiya hates her. This just points to her harnessing power that the El orthodoxy thinks should only be theirs, and that everything is not as Tudiya has presented to us when it comes to El. Eh. Up until the attempted kidnapping (and of course the demon cave) Bareen fitted your description of Indor as well. The fact that she is opposed to Tudiya does not necessarily make her good (or evil), and the fact that Tudiya doesn't like her does not necessarily make her a righteous rebel against unjust oppression (though it doesn't necessarily mark her as someone deserving of a stake and a fire, either.) It's entirely possible, for instance, that the reason why the orthodoxy is against Indor's sorcery is because it is unsafe in some way - perhaps she can't control it as well as she thinks she can, perhaps its use draws attention from beings you don't really want paying attention to you, perhaps it has a hidden cost she may not even be aware of. Come to think of it, it may well be possible that the reason why she finds it safe to practice witchcraft is because she isn't Blooded - it may be that the same rituals and methods which are safe for her might find both its powers and dangers increased a hundredfold when paired with powerful Blood like our own, or even that of any of the Mighty Men of the city, which is why the orthodoxy forbids its use. We don't really know yet, and we can't really say with the information we possess. I do agree it'd be interesting to find out more to confirm the truth or falsehood of these or any other hypotheses, but while doing so it's worth remembering that sometimes there's more to a religious taboo than mindless zealotry. I'm reminded of a story I heard once - Spanish explorers came across a tribe of natives who were scared of puddles that formed during rainfall and refused to step in them. To demonstrate how such terror was mere harmless superstition, the Spaniards danced barefoot in the puddles. Sometime later, however, they discovered the reason for the superstitious fear - parasitic worms that lived in the puddles. Granted, the source for that story was a footnote in the Cartoon History of the Universe, and I can't actually find my copy right now to look up its details to confirm it, but you get the idea.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:44
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Tomn posted:Eh. Up until the attempted kidnapping (and of course the demon cave) Bareen fitted your description of Indor as well. The fact that she is opposed to Tudiya does not necessarily make her good (or evil), and the fact that Tudiya doesn't like her does not necessarily make her a righteous rebel against unjust oppression (though it doesn't necessarily mark her as someone deserving of a stake and a fire, either.) Tudiya is opposed to her, not vice versa. It's also possible that the church of El has been telling everyone that only the descendants of Labaras can have mighty powers, because they want to keep their monopoly on power. It's their story that power comes from the blood of Labaras, so they ignore the other power for some reason rather than addressing it. Why? Why not explain that it's dangerous to use the power...if it is, or teach people to use it responsibly if it's the case that anyone can learn.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:51
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Tsyni posted:Tudiya is opposed to her, not vice versa. It's also possible that the church of El has been telling everyone that only the descendants of Labaras can have mighty powers, because they want to keep their monopoly on power. It's their story that power comes from the blood of Labaras, so they ignore the other power for some reason rather than addressing it. Why? Why not explain that it's dangerous to use the power...if it is, or teach people to use it responsibly if it's the case that anyone can learn. She's opposed to him in deed, I think that's what was meant. And yeah it's probably something like that. Stop dealing with Indor There is a way to help remedy the perspective of her, it isn't through shady deals.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:05
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:How is it heretical to tell Tudiya "Hey I saw some figures walking among us, touching us on our shoulder like the priests did with the ashes of sacrifice. Those who were touched were empowered with extra strength. What's up with them?" Ishamal previously advised you that if you thought you saw Melachim and you think they are hiding, don't tell anyone, they were probably did not want to be noticed? ArbitraryTA posted:Diog, do we know if Tudiya knows about Puabi? If she's currently an unknown, she can easily be used to explain how Indor has been maintaining supply. Or does he? After all, Zepath has a fairly weak "government" so much as it does and Tudiya almost certainly does not have any sort of spies or intelligence people in the city. Combine this with the stigma of associating with Indor at all, when was the last time Tudiya even spoke with the woman, if ever? Would he know if she had an adopted daughter?
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Mar 18, 2014 05:20
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It seems like the Mighty Men use power from within themselves, while the witch uses power from within the monster parts. Since monsters are demon-spawned, that sounds like a bad thing, but why would Tudiya allow any witches to remain in town if it is really that bad?Tsyni posted:Let's just tell Tudiya and face the music. Maybe use some of our sterling rhetorical skills we trained all those years. Then we don't need some complicated bullshit plan. If we get banished...guess what! We get to go off on the adventure that we've always dreamed of. Does this have zero appeal to people? I could get behind that. I think there is some hesitation to throw caution to the wind because Og still has some maturing to do. A few more time-skips and hopefully the collective Og-mind will be ready to roam the world.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:24
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Ask Tudiya what happened to the orc that was swallowed up by the earth (if it hasn't been asked yet, I didn't see anyway)
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Mar 18, 2014 05:33
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Tsyni posted:Tudiya is opposed to her, not vice versa. It's also possible that the church of El has been telling everyone that only the descendants of Labaras can have mighty powers, because they want to keep their monopoly on power. It's their story that power comes from the blood of Labaras, so they ignore the other power for some reason rather than addressing it. Why? Why not explain that it's dangerous to use the power...if it is, or teach people to use it responsibly if it's the case that anyone can learn. Possibly because the founders of the Church of El didn't feel that the risk of sorcery was worth the benefits of spreading knowledge of such, and felt that it was in fact feasible to put the genie back in the bottle. It's worth remembering that the idea that scientific progress is always or even usually beneficial and a goal worth pursuing is a fairly modern viewpoint - older societies such as we live in might not have seen the eventual (possible) benefits as clearly as we do, while noticing very clearly the dangers of experimenting with that which is not well understood. Under such circumstances it's not hard to see how an early society might see some spectacular disasters occur due to sorcery early on, get spooked, and decide to do their best to bury sorcery entirely. And of course, that's leaving aside any association sorcery might have had in the bad old days with the priests of demons. Not to say that any of this is absolutely and certainly true, of course, it's just worth remembering that there are perfectly valid and harmless reasons why the Church of El might dislike sorcery, and that their suppression thereof is not necessarily a sign of any malicious (or even foolish) intent.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:42
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Sogol posted:talk with Paebel. Tell him Tudiya is investigating. Tell him to warn both the merchant and Indor to stay away from the Minotaurs corpses. Have him tell Indor this is why we have been scaling down and wanted to protect all involved. I vote for this too.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:44
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Diog: Are Paebel and Puabi seeing anyone? Could we try and hook them up?
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Mar 18, 2014 05:57
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Diog question for Tudiya. "Why does the Temple of El not help the poorer folk of the city at no cost? Would that not put Indor out of business all together?"
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Mar 18, 2014 06:25
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Tsyni posted:Let's just tell Tudiya and face the music. Maybe use some of our sterling rhetorical skills we trained all those years. Then we don't need some complicated bullshit plan. If we get banished...guess what! We get to go off on the adventure that we've always dreamed of. Does this have zero appeal to people? Honestly this is sounding better and better by the day. We're starting to get important enough in Zepath that we have to consider the politics of the place, and gently caress Politics. I want adventures! EDIT: You know what, all this sneaky stuff is dumb as hell. Voting Confess to Tudiya. Either we confess and take the consequences with a shred of dignity like a decent person, or we wait until Tudiya finds out and calls us on it anyway. And he will find out. This guy is hundreds of years older than us. We are NOT smarter than him. Kyyp fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 06:26
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On witchcraft, and why Labaras never taught it. I am pretty sure that what priests do is basically an El-approved form of witchcraft. We know they make similar heals, we know Indor can make holy icons like they do with similar effects, and we know that both require monster bits. The significance of this, I don't know. But I don't think Labaras literally didn't teach any witchcraft.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:39
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Kyyp posted:Honestly this is sounding better and better by the day. We're starting to get important enough in Zepath that we have to consider the politics of the place, and gently caress Politics. I want adventures! I wholeheartedly agree with Kyyp on this after a lengthy discussion on the subject. If we get caught out publicly on this we are utterly hosed. If Tudiya knows what we did and our motivation for it he will probably be really goddamned angry but he won't like take us down hard or anything. Confess our association with Indor to Tudiya, explain why we did what we did
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Mar 18, 2014 06:39
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We have three options here, really. 1: Confess, explain our reasoning, and hope that Tudiya at least gives us some slack for coming clean and wanting to help the poor. 2: Keep it secret, stop trading with Indor, and hope Tudiya doesn't mind read anyone involved. Tudiya will be Very Upset with us for keeping secrets like this from him. No way he'll ever trust us again after this. 3: Keep it secret, keep trading with Indor, and be absolutely hosed when Tudiya finds out we've been actively lying to him. EDIT: IRC has been debating on this for the last few hours. Kyyp fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 06:52
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Kyyp posted:Honestly this is sounding better and better by the day. We're starting to get important enough in Zepath that we have to consider the politics of the place, and gently caress Politics. I want adventures! 50 voters shot me down last time I proposed we gently caress off from this place.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:14
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What? Tudiya will not 'cut us some slack'. I think Dio has come as close to outright stating as he ever does that Tudiya will blow a fuse if he found out we were involved with Indor. It will not end well. But he's surpised me before. 
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Mar 18, 2014 07:20
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Theglavwen posted:What? Tudiya will not 'cut us some slack'. I think Dio has come as close to outright stating as he ever does that Tudiya will blow a fuse if he found out we were involved with Indor. It will not end well. I believe that Diog is telling us what we think because we have been under the impression that is what we think and we are Enkidel's mind. Because it sounds exactly like what Diog would do. Just trust me on this. He's gonna be a lot more angry if he hears this poo poo from someone else. The dude is investigating this stuff. We can't just continue assuming he won't find out and I am not ok with lying to our goddamned father after getting all introspective about it.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:38
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Theglavwen posted:What? Tudiya will not 'cut us some slack'. I think Dio has come as close to outright stating as he ever does that Tudiya will blow a fuse if he found out we were involved with Indor. It will not end well. Dude literally forgave people that had been worshiping Melachim under Bareen, who pretty clearly used demons for power. I think he will accept what we've done, privately offer us a shot at penance before he disowns and fucks us over, and sends us out into the wilds, etc, until we've done suitably badass stuff. The worst he can do, legally, is disown us and have us shunned by high society. But we might consider the political situation. The people love us, and we also have a force we use to fight for Zepath. A more effective force than Bareen's, even, and without Barkof the ranks of the Mighty are thinner than ever in the city. We fill that void and then some, making Zepath even stronger than it had been one day. I'm not saying he won't disown and shun us. I am saying it's not a foregone conclusion. I am not voting for this by the way, because I'm not sure yet. I wanna see some discussion in it. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 07:40
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Kyyp posted:We have three options here, really. I'm less certain about this reasoning. Given his actions in the past, I sincerely doubt Tudiya would have a great deal of patience for "I wanted to help the poor" explanations - if we wanted to help the poor, I imagine he'd respond, we should have just paid full cost for the proper cures and donated them to those in need. While we could between ourselves argue quite convincingly that we were helping others by helping ourselves at the same time for maximum benefit all around, I doubt Tudiya will be quite as flexible on the matter. This is more likely to appear to him to be a simple case of greed, justified after the fact as a charitable act, unless we could convincingly demonstrate that we ploughed all and any excess profits of working with Indor into directly helping the poor - which, of course, we haven't actually been doing, have we? If anything, an attempt to say "I was trying to help the poor!" seems liable to leave him angrier than he would have been if we just said it was us to begin with. There may be a very, very few ways to word our reasoning such that Tudiya would accept it, but I wouldn't bet money on our being able to work out any of them out. He really does not like Indor, and if we decide it's best to own up here and now we should really understand that this is almost certainly going to get us kicked out on our rear end, and that we would not be covering our rear end to any significant extent through an attempt to "man up." The only good reason for owning up is if you believe it is the right thing to do, not because you think it'll lead to the least punishment. As for 2, there's something worth considering here - he COULD just mind read everyone involved. He doesn't HAVE to send us out to stand guard and keep our eyes open for smugglers. He could just march right up to Indor, collect all the merchants, and scan each and every one of them. Wouldn't that be much faster and more efficient than sending a teenager and his dog to do some highly indirect sleuthing? Presumably, then, he would rather hold off on mind-reading for some reason if he can avoid it - some form of ethical hang-up? The costs involved with the use of such power? Whatever the case, we probably don't have to worry too much about mind-reading unless matters get so drastic Tudiya feels compelled to act immediately and decisively instead of loving around with roundabout honey-traps. (Remember, Tudiya's form of investigation here is to wait and see who tries to take the minotaur bits just lying around for free. He's simply relying on finding out who is greedy enough to do such a thing, assuming that this will lead him to the person greedy enough to sell to Indor. This is SERIOUSLY a shot in the dark, from an investigative perspective.)
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Mar 18, 2014 07:45
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