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treeboy posted:You're kidding right? You're comparing legitimately entertaining books to cartoons where half the cast spends most episodes yelling numbers and screaming until veins pop all across their bodies. In fact if I were to make any critique of the dialogue its that Sanderson made it a little *too* contemporary in its form. I am neither kidding nor doing what you're saying. But I am comparing the dialogue in these books to this particular anime (and anime in general), with the yelling and screaming and veins being of course completely irrelevant to this conversation. But, hey, don't get me wrong - I'm glad you enjoy it! e: and it has nothing to do with being too contemporary or otherwise, and stuff like the Lift chapter was fine. It's not a stylistic issue. It's a technical issue. e2: vvv I just started Warbreaker, and if that's the case that's pretty cool Habibi fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 22:01
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Xachariah posted:Contemporary/awkward dialogue can be suspension of disbelief'd away as the people of wherever speaking something that's definitely not English, but the book translates to the nearest best English approximation on the fly. Like the TARDIS in Doctor Who. In fact, given that it's probably that Vasher is on Roshar right now, we can plainly see that Sanderson "translated" his language DIFFERENTLY depending on whether we were supposed to view his language as a native, or as a non-native. We didn't see color idioms every other sentence in Warbreaker, but that's how he talks in Roshar.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:10
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^^ Given Warbreaker's age I'd hazard that its either indication of growth as an author and an attempt to bring greater diversity to the character voices, or an attempt on Sandersons part to drop hints. If your reasoning is correct however that is pretty awesome.Habibi posted:I am neither kidding nor doing what you're saying. But I am comparing the dialogue in these books to this particular anime (and anime in general), with the yelling and screaming and veins being of course completely irrelevant to this conversation. But, hey, don't get me wrong - I'm glad you enjoy it! It's not an issue of liking/disliking. I just have literally no conceptual understanding of what you're talking about. You're using words I understand, but arranging them in configurations which make no sense to me. Concrete examples of dialogue you find to be Anime-esque or "Awkward, overwrought, dramaticized, and completely unlike how people actually talk" might help if you care to provide some. I asked a few friends at my studio who are fans of both Anime and Sanderson and they looked at me like I was crazy when I tried to describe this critique of the work. I get "action scenes" as anime, that's easy enough to picture as a part of some crazy fantasy sword shonen show like Bleach, but the character interactions and dialogue...i just don't follow your reasoning. edit: i mean i'm not suggesting people go around speaking about magic and betrayal as a part of everyday conversation. But your critique seems to revolve around your willing suspension of disbelief being broken by how "Anime" people talk in the book. Within the context of the story being told, the conversations, thoughts, and opinions of each character seem totally reasonable. Any level of angst or drama beyond "real life" is a criticism that could easily be leveled at Fiction of any genre or medium (movies, stage, literature, tv or otherwise) or culture treeboy fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 23:01
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Speaking of language and dialogue, one point of interest was that Taln, the crazy herald, could speak perfect Alethi. Considering that he's been in hell dimension for thousands of years I found this interesting. There is no way the "Alethi" of back then is the same as it is now, so how does he know to speak in the modern dialect? Maybe I'm reading too much into this.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:13
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Streebs posted:Speaking of language and dialogue, one point of interest was that Taln, the crazy herald, could speak perfect Alethi. Considering that he's been in hell dimension for thousands of years I found this interesting. There is no way the "Alethi" of back then is the same as it is now, so how does he know to speak in the modern dialect? Maybe I'm reading too much into this. i don't know how, but I'd bet they can communicate with anyone of any language. Otherwise they'd spend most of their time learning languages instead of preparing people to fight. Whether this is because they speak an "Adamic" language kinda trope (a pure 'divine' language understandable by anyone) or simply a universal translator spren doesn't really matter i suppose.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:15
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treeboy posted:i don't know how, but I'd bet they can communicate with anyone of any language. Otherwise they'd spend most of their time learning languages instead of preparing people to fight. You are probably right I just found it a bit odd because I think it was mentioned once or twice that he spoke without an accent. I could be remembering incorrectly though; I definitely have to re-read this to pick up on all the details.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:20
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Xachariah posted:The 'ultimate healing power' is just a surge shared by every other potential Edgedancer and also every Truthwatcher (like Renarin). It doesn't necessarily indicate that she will be a supporting character. To clarify, I mean support like in league of legends or any of those types of games, not a supporting character. More focus on healing and not killing everyone a la Vin.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:33
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treeboy posted:^^ Given Warbreaker's age I'd hazard that its either indication of growth as an author and an attempt to bring greater diversity to the character voices, or an attempt on Sandersons part to drop hints. If your reasoning is correct however that is pretty awesome. I don't know if I'd call it anime-ish, but several of Shallan's banter/snappy conversations definitely struck me as unrealistic. To me it seemed more sitcom than anime though, and now that I think about it, it really reminded me of Dawson's Creek'. People don't actually trade increasingly over the top witticisms like that. OBi fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 23:41
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OBi posted:I don't know if I'd call it anime-ish, but several of Shallan's banter/snappy conversations definitely struck me as unrealistic. To me it seemed more sitcom than anime though, and now that I think about it, it really reminded me of Dawson's Creek'. People don't actually trade increasingly over the top witticisms like that. Shallan does tend to read like a character in a Dean Koontz book.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:02
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treeboy posted:It's not an issue of liking/disliking. quote:I just have literally no conceptual understanding of what you're talking about. You're using words I understand, but arranging them in configurations which make no sense to me. quote:Concrete examples of dialogue you find to be Anime-esque or "Awkward, overwrought, dramaticized, and completely unlike how people actually talk" might help if you care to provide some. I asked a few friends at my studio quote:But your critique seems to revolve around your willing suspension of disbelief being broken Given that I have said nor claimed nothing about how the animeish dialogue affects my suspension of disbelief, I think this is probably a good place to stop.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:07
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OBi posted:People don't actually trade increasingly over the top witticisms like that. I do.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:17
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ConfusedUs posted:I do. I guess that's who Sanderson is writing for; the person who thinks they really sound that clever in real life.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:43
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You do this in the Malazan thread too. You pick at something, get called out, then fail to defend yourself while trying to look like the calm guy who isn't mad. It's kind of annoying. I don't find anything 'anime' about the conversations the characters have and the only real thing I see is what other people pointed out: Shallan sounds like she's trying really hard to sound witty. However, she kind of grows out of that over the course of the books as well, and I can totally see a smart, kinda shut in 17 year old girl trying to sound smart by being clever AS HARD AS SHE CAN.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:55
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The most anime thing about the book is Szeth, who is described as having big, round eyes. There.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:58
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nucleicmaxid posted:You do this in the Malazan thread too. You pick at something, get called out, then fail to defend yourself while trying to look like the calm guy who isn't mad. It's kind of annoying. Especially given what we see in her flashbacks.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:59
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Augster posted:The most anime thing about the book is Szeth, who is described as having big, round eyes. There.
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Mar 18, 2014 01:48
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Cicero posted:Also his shardblade is the closest one to a katana in design, I think. Also windrunners have a pretty anime style of fighting/generally going about their business.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:14
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Lobsterpillar posted:Also windrunners have a pretty anime style of fighting/generally going about their business. Then so do most comic book characters.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:22
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nucleicmaxid posted:Then so do most comic book characters. Kaladin and Szeth had a swordfight while standing in mid-air and radiating visible auras of energy. An action scene doesn't get more anime than that. Not to say that I disliked it. It was awesome. But it quacks, and I call it a duck.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:24
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Jorenko posted:Kaladin and Szeth had a swordfight while standing in mid-air and radiating visible auras of energy. An action scene doesn't get more anime than that. Not to say that I disliked it. It was awesome. But it quacks, and I call it a duck. They totally did, and it totally was epic as hell. However, I could see a similar scene easily coming out of a comic book. Comic books and anime are super similar, but anime has a really bad connotation the way that people have been using it. I, personally, don't even like anime, I've watched one that I've enjoyed and the rest have been just awful, so it seems pejorative to keep calling it 'anime'. Especially when people are going out of their way with it to try and score a cheap hit. If you have a criticism, actually bring it up, but 'the book has some kinda extreme scenes with power glows and stuff!' is pretty much straight out of Golden/Silver Age comic books, and anime. It's just a modern way to say - dude is mother loving ripped as poo poo right now.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:30
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I don't have a problem with it seeming a bit anime. There are way worse things than a bit of over the top action scenes and flashy magic. At least we don't have to read through chapter upon chapter of characters being creepy towards women, or read characters deliberately written to be repulsive, or have the authors opinion on social policies/obamacare shoved down our throats every page. I guess my point is, this doesn't ruin the book or make it unreadable.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:33
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nucleicmaxid posted:You do this in the Malazan thread too. You pick at something, get called out, then fail to defend yourself while trying to look like the calm guy who isn't mad. It's kind of annoying. In the present case, I guess I'm sorry that it doesn't matter enough to me whether you or other posters agree with my opinion on this to get 'mad' about it on the internet or spend time looking for particularly animeish exchanges to sate you. It's my opinion on a particular quality of Sanderson's writing (ie, not even a question of interpreting plot points and thus doesn't affect the story), and if quote:I don't find anything 'anime' about the conversations the characters have Habibi fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 03:55
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Jorenko posted:Kaladin and Szeth had a swordfight while standing in mid-air and radiating visible auras of energy. An action scene doesn't get more anime than that. Not to say that I disliked it. It was awesome. But it quacks, and I call it a duck. I'm gonna be honest, as that whole scene was setting up you could telegraph what was going to happen next in the most glorious anime way possible. I mean Kaladin gets Ice wings on the ground behind him and then it cuts to Dalinar fighting Szeth, as soon as Szeth had Dalinar down I was like "Ok here comes the ground punching entrance of badassery", I was off by a beat, he first punches Dalinar into the clouds. Awesome, but Anime as all hell.
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Mar 18, 2014 04:45
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Does anyone else think Lift is basically Sette Frummagem from Unsounded.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:09
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Ragnar34 posted:Does anyone else think Lift is basically Sette Frummagem from Unsounded. Lift is totally Gavroche from Les Mis. With superpowers.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:58
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Completely different characters in different genres of media can have similar speech patterns?!?!? The hell you say! And here I thought everything was always completely original. I can't enjoy something that might have elements that reference other things! Anyways, Is it actually said somewhere that Zahel is Vasher? Did I miss that part? It's obvious he's something more than what he lets on, but I didn't catch that he was supposed to be a world hopper just reading the book.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:00
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subx posted:Completely different characters in different genres of media can have similar speech patterns?!?!? The hell you say! And here I thought everything was always completely original. I can't enjoy something that might have elements that reference other things! No, the colour based idioms were supposed to be a reference to Warbreaker but it was not explicit, Sanderson just confirmed it at some book signing thing apparently.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:05
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subx posted:Completely different characters in different genres of media can have similar speech patterns?!?!? The hell you say! And here I thought everything was always completely original. I can't enjoy something that might have elements that reference other things! No, it's not explicit in-book, but since Nightblood crossed over and here is this swordmaster uses color references all the time it's a pretty solid guess
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Mar 18, 2014 16:06
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Xachariah posted:No, the colour based idioms were supposed to be a reference to Warbreaker but it was not explicit, Sanderson just confirmed it at some book signing thing apparently. Oh right, the color references, I hadn't even thought of that. It has been a long time since I read Warbreaker, maybe I'll do the audio book. Piell posted:No, it's not explicit in-book, but since Nightblood crossed over and here is this swordmaster uses color references all the time it's a pretty solid guess Thanks for similar reason as above.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:11
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subx posted:
Also he's wearing the rope belt, his shardblade training is how to throw your sword (and uses warbreaker style visualizations), he's used to having a telepathic voice in his head, can sense life, and he plays that funky stone throwing game. Apparently in the original version of Way of Kings, Kaladin took up the shards in book one and spent a lot of time training under Vasher, who didn't even have an alias.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:33
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Tunicate posted:Also he's wearing the rope belt, his shardblade training is how to throw your sword (and uses warbreaker style visualizations), he's used to having a telepathic voice in his head, can sense life, and he plays that funky stone throwing game. Until this is proven to be false, I'll forever be convinced that the funky stone throwing game is like Calvinball and there are no actual rules to it.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:35
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Warbreaker: I find it more amusing to imagine that the stone throwing game actually does have rules to it, it's just that it's poorly designed and playing randomly works just as well as anything else.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:24
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Does the whole "dark skinned race that are mostly used as slaves and are dark because they were born from sin" ("Born from darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls.") bother anyone else? Especially in light of Sanderson's Mormonism and its history of not allowing black priests.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:38
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I honestly think you're reaching in an attempt to be offended there. And no, just because someone is Mormon, it does not mean they are a racist.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:44
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It's probably reaching for a bit when that entire selection was prefaced and postfaced by pointing out that Vorinism/etc. is full of poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:47
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Ranma posted:Does the whole "dark skinned race that are mostly used as slaves and are dark because they were born from sin" ("Born from darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls.") bother anyone else? Especially in light of Sanderson's Mormonism and its history of not allowing black priests. Doesn't bother me, they're a made-up race in a made-up world with very made-up magic influences. Also their skin colour is half inky black/half red so they're more of an alien race rather than black people.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:01
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Also, parshendi have a mixture of black, red, and white on their skin.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:01
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Ranma posted:Does the whole "dark skinned race that are mostly used as slaves and are dark because they were born from sin" ("Born from darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls.") bother anyone else? Especially in light of Sanderson's Mormonism and its history of not allowing black priests. you're reaching really far here and are completely off base. This is where I could also point out the Alethi aren't white, they're somewhere between Indian/East Asian in skin color, perhaps even Native American/Mayan. Of the main cast only Shallan is "european" in appearance with pale skin, freckles, and red hair (I get a Eurasian/Russian vibe from Rock). Sanderson does an excellent job of actually creating 'fake' ethnicities that don't really exist on earth (Adolin is blonde with black streaked hair and dark tan skin, and strong sharp features/square jaw) edit: We also don't know the Parshendi backstory. Only that They're susceptible to control via voidspren due to their close relation to the Cognitive realm, much as Hemalurgic spikes made one susceptible to Ruin. My guess is they were a peaceful race, which included the Dawnsingers who formed the great cities for Men, and then were essentially enslaved by Odium when he became trapped in the Greater Rosharran solar system edit2: also if you're subtly trying to imply that Sanderson is racist due to his religion I'd be more than happy to help fill in any contextual misconceptions you might have regarding LDS history, especially in regards to race, as well as the last half century of church history (during which Sanderson was born) where its all a complete nonissue. treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 19:12
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Also, all the main characters except Szeth have epicanthic folds.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:14
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Going to a book signing tonight, and I need something interesting for Sanderson to sign my book with. Help goons! And yea, I'm not sure how you got racism out of that passage.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:40
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