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mutata
Mar 1, 2003

quote:

Well that kinda begs the question of what's "too big". I mean obviously there's some stuff that's ridiculous like "We're a five-man team making an MMO to rival World of Warcraft," but everyone involved is just kidding themselves at that point. A tiny crew making an RPG about the size you saw in the middle of the SNES era? That looks big and insurmountable from the outside, but it's not really unreasonable and it's been empirically-proven in the industry that this can easily be completed on schedule with a smaller crew than you can count on your two hands.

Well, yeah, that's essentially what scoping is: asking "what's too big?" and weighing your abilities against your available tools and factoring in budget and deadlines. My point was merely that this question MUST be answered by you and your team if you have any kind of specific goals for your game.

If you're just dicking about for funsies, though, that's a different animal.

quote:

That's why I said "core gameplay elements." It's like the seven or ten or whatever number of stories theory: you can make a bunch of interesting games with unique elements, but are they really new or are they very clever and fun remixes of things we already know? Ehh, maybe that's just because the way I regard my own work. It's not new, it's just a mix of things I'm familiar with and think could be fun if they were put together in a certain way.

Fair enough!

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Bert of the Forest
Apr 27, 2013

Shucks folks, I'm speechless. Hawf Hawf Hawf!

StickFigs posted:


- When/how do you come up with your best ideas? What are your best inspirational activities?

- Do your ideas start off as an idea for a game mechanic or do you think of a story or plot first and build the game mechanics around that? Or does the whole picture come to you at once?

- How do you think small in terms of scope? When you have an idea that's too big do you cut it down to size or put it aside for a future project?

For me, game ideas generally come from my observation of which game mechanics tend to turn off non-gamers and try to come up with ways to simplify or make certain game types more accessible.

George Fan, the creator of Plants vs Zombies is one of my favorite designers because of this- as he was able to boil down the tower defense genre to its most basic elements while still giving his game enough depth to be enjoyable. And then on top of that he gave the game a fun and unique setting to help set it apart from the other games in the genre.

This was basically how we initially approached Deeper- can we make a more accessible streamlined version of Artemis/FTL and then put it in a more unique setting?

We're still managing our scope creep however, and basically for us scope boils down to time. We set an ideal date for ourselves and cut whatever is necessary to make the deadline, and put whatever we cut on our list of things we want to release as a free update after the game is released. That's the plan anyway.

StickFigs
Sep 5, 2004

"It's time to choose."

mutata posted:

Also, genres may be familiar to us, but we're FAR FAR from knowing every possible combination of mechanics and control schemes and that exploration is a big part of why the indie scene is as exciting as it is nowadays.

This is something I lean on when trying to think of new game ideas. I try to think in terms of what is something that has never been done before and it gets me ideas that in my head are amazing but when it comes time to flesh out the details I find that the idea was only fun or possible in my head. This is like 90% of my ideas, the other 10% that I can't use are too large in scope.

The Golden Gael
Nov 12, 2011

You know it's the first level when you're in a tank...fighting snakes.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?

The White Dragon posted:

The best you can hope for is to follow Roald Dahl's advice and write down any good ones you catch. You can work with them when you have time or when you think you've got a clever way to spin 'em.
This is what I do. Keep a giant folder of all the game ideas that won't leave me alone until I write them down. Some of those documents naturally grow or become favorites, and when I need a new project, I troll the list and see what pops up.

I think I'm going to start using the idea bucket to seed my gamejams, too. Instead of randomly picking a game/genre that fits, just pop through the list and see if anything likely appears.

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014

korusan posted:

You know it's the first level when you're in a tank...fighting snakes.


Does that... tank look like head of a duck intentionally?

VendoViper
Feb 8, 2011

Can't touch this.
It is called fowl play.

Polio Vax Scene
Apr 5, 2009



Game's called Fowl Play, I'd assume so!

Those trees ended up looking better than I thought, they fit well with the rest of your art.

chiefnewo
May 21, 2007

It sort of looks less like a tank and more like an upright walking duck with a huge head wearing a leather jacket. Which is also cool.

The Golden Gael
Nov 12, 2011

Thanks friends. I hope the Player 2 vehicle winds up being just as cool.

It's a station wagon.

poemdexter
Feb 18, 2005

Hooray Indie Games!

College Slice

Shalinor posted:

This is what I do. Keep a giant folder of all the game ideas that won't leave me alone until I write them down. Some of those documents naturally grow or become favorites, and when I need a new project, I troll the list and see what pops up.

I think I'm going to start using the idea bucket to seed my gamejams, too. Instead of randomly picking a game/genre that fits, just pop through the list and see if anything likely appears.

Same here but I use a folder called 'game ideas' in google docs. I even created a little one page design doc template so I can throw as much stuff down as I can before I forget it the next day.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

My game ideas Evernote doc is reaching a very impressive length whereas I have yet to make my first self-produced title. Go figure!

Lanth
Jun 15, 2007
Lipstick Apathy

korusan posted:

Thanks friends. I hope the Player 2 vehicle winds up being just as cool.

It's a station wagon.

Please include a Duckman cameo or at least Cornfed Pig!

ceebee
Feb 12, 2004
My game ideas usually start as really loose ideas and I sketch them out in a sketchbook or in photoshop. It's helping my 2D skills quite a bit as well. I can later on use those to show my process (once I actually finish a game as well)

Right now my main focus is learning Unity and C#. I've got the Unity part down pretty good but C# is kicking my rear end trying to remember everything. At least I don't have to worry about the art side of things too much since I already know modeling, skinning, rigging, and used to do graphic design.

Also, if anybody here is interested in getting into an indie dev chatroom I was thinking of starting up a skype chatroom, add me on skype as "curtbinder" if you want to get involved.

ceebee fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 19, 2014

Fart Blanche
May 11, 2005
I am using Unity to make my first game. It's about a modern day janitor ( going to be in the style of half-life ).

I haven't made much so far but







The next pic shows what will happen when you open up a locker using your bolt cutters. I was going to have it blur but it isn't available in Unity Free, so I'm using directional vertex lighting. Your motions will freeze and your inventory will show up in front of the locker.



My problem is that I keep getting stuck and losing motivation because I'm not sure what kind of enemies I should have..

Also, I know I barely have anything right now, but how much content should you have in order to have a successful kickstarter?

Fart Blanche fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Mar 19, 2014

Internet Janitor
May 17, 2008

"That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."
I think this sounds like a compelling concept.

Common enemies of janitors include but are not limited to:
  • gum on the undersides of desks, chairs, benches, etc.
  • birds and squirrels who have found their way inside.
  • people who think it is funny to carve penises into the walls of restrooms.
  • people who do not understand how to operate urinals properly.
  • poorly-grounded electrical outlets.
  • boobytrapped and/or dangerously overfilled trash receptacles.

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012
I'd just make sure you differentiate yourself from Viscera Cleanup Detail clearly, since that's the comparison most people are going to automatically make

Unormal
Nov 16, 2004

Mod sass? This evening?! But the cakes aren't ready! THE CAKES!
Fun Shoe
Tidy well-behaved self-formatting popups! :woop:

Calipark
Feb 1, 2008

That's cool.

ceebee posted:


Also, if anybody here is interested in getting into an indie dev chatroom I was thinking of starting up a skype chatroom, add me on skype as "curtbinder" if you want to get involved.

You're in luck, we just so happen to have an entire IRC channel dedicated to bullshitting about game dev stuff.

Join #SAGameDev on synirc.

aerique
Jul 16, 2008

I really like the art style of the landscape in the background. Had you posted screenshots before? If so, I'm surprised I missed them.

The Golden Gael
Nov 12, 2011

Alright now I'm drawing the enemy Snake Tank. I have a good shape for it but when it comes to shading I'm at a loss. I've been using this as a guide so far:


and the WIP sprite so far is:



so obviously not in the right direction so far. Can anyone give me a hand figuring out how the light should cast on this flatter tank?

TomR
Apr 1, 2003
I both own and operate a pirate ship.
Make the light areas appear as larger plates. Think a large flat surface.

Also I made a thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um8sgsaKN34

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
From GDC: Unreal Engine 4 comes out today and has a subscription model for licensing, costing $19 a month + 5% gross from any commercial release, with engine source made available to subscribers via GitHub.

Apparently the old, custom-negotiated licensing way is still there for the giants, but drat, making the engine source available to the folks who can't spring millions of dollars for a "full" license is pretty impressive.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

I love that the jumping sound effect is still a "bweep!" Wherever this project ends up, it should try to maximize the dissonance between the different components. Like, you need to have a big cartoony sun with sunglasses in your skybox, next to photorealistic clouds and a cel-shaded Mount Fuji.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?
EDIT: Oh, never mind, beaten by 2 posts. Yeah, U4 indie licensing. EXCELLENT!

StickFigs posted:

Read the blurb but I didn't see anything about this: Is it true that UE4 has moved away from UnrealScript and totally towards Kismet + native code? This new pricing model makes more sense if it's true.
That's certainly the rumor, and makes perfect sense. I know they've said they focused on making Kismet more of a first-class citizen, and once that happens, dropping UnrealScript makes perfect sense / why would anyone use it over Kismet.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 19, 2014

StickFigs
Sep 5, 2004

"It's time to choose."

The Kins posted:

From GDC: Unreal Engine 4 comes out today and has a subscription model for licensing, costing $19 a month + 5% gross from any commercial release, with engine source made available to subscribers via GitHub.

Read the blurb but I didn't see anything about this: Is it true that UE4 has moved away from UnrealScript and totally towards Kismet + native code? This new pricing model makes more sense if it's true.

Shalinor posted:

That's... a hell of a deal. If I weren't already embedded in Unity, I'd be preparing to jump ship because, drat.

Unity still has quite a few advantages over UE4 in my book, namely C#, MonoDevelop, FREE entry-level price.

EDIT: Although only taking 5% of gross revenue is nice.

StickFigs fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 19, 2014

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
They're ditching the free UDK, though, which kinda sucks.

Monster w21 Faces
May 11, 2006

"What the fuck is that?"
"What the fuck is this?!"

dupersaurus posted:

They're ditching the free UDK, though, which kinda sucks.

On the plus side, it's $20 friggin dollars and you don't need an active sub to develop.

Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?
EDIT: ^^ Huh. And that's interesting too. I wonder if Unity's free offering will be seen as much additional value beyond that.

StickFigs posted:

Unity still has quite a few advantages over UE4 in my book, namely C#, MonoDevelop, FREE entry-level price.

EDIT: Although only taking 5% of gross revenue is nice.
It's... interesting. Now Unity still sweeps in hobbyists with its free offering, but it still locks enough behind Pro that you more or less have to upgrade whenever you make a business of it. At that precise moment, or if you drop to indie from a AAA studio, UDK suddenly looks a lot more appealing - source access is really hard to argue with.

C# is a nice speed boost, if I was looking at C# VS C++ / source access? source access is going to win most of the time.

Shalinor fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 19, 2014

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Monster w21 Faces posted:

On the plus side, it's $20 friggin dollars and you don't need an active sub to develop.

I missed that part. I assumed it was like Creative Cloud: stop paying and lose all access.

StickFigs
Sep 5, 2004

"It's time to choose."

dupersaurus posted:

I missed that part. I assumed it was like Creative Cloud: stop paying and lose all access.

I'm assuming if you pay $20 once, grab the source, then quit then you'll have the source but it will be stagnant where if you keep your subscription up to date you will have access to the newest revision.

I think they would have been better off giving the source code out free to everyone since there's no way to protect it from being distributed by users illegally without the super-high paywall it used to have. Then the subscription could grant you commercial release rights and 24/7 tech support or something.

EDIT: Come to think of it, does that mean you have to pay the subscription fee as long as your game is on sale? Even if you don't do any further development?

StickFigs fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 19, 2014

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Also from GDC, for the 2D scrubs: Game Maker is getting PS3, PS4 and PS Vita exporters for licensed Sony developers. This means that Vlambeer and friends won't have to completely rewrite their games from scratch for console ports! :haw:

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Well I signed up and paid for a month, so I'll let you guys know what my experience is with it.

Edit: I just got their announcement email and they specifically state that there's no UnrealScript.

mutata fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 19, 2014

One Eye Open
Sep 19, 2006
Am I awake?
I put this in the other gamedev thread, thinking it was this one: :doh:

quote:

Aras Pranckevičius(Unity's graphics/shader bloke) has put up his GDC talk on his website. Slides/notes.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

StickFigs posted:

I'm assuming if you pay $20 once, grab the source, then quit then you'll have the source but it will be stagnant where if you keep your subscription up to date you will have access to the newest revision.

I think they would have been better off giving the source code out free to everyone since there's no way to protect it from being distributed by users illegally without the super-high paywall it used to have. Then the subscription could grant you commercial release rights and 24/7 tech support or something.

EDIT: Come to think of it, does that mean you have to pay the subscription fee as long as your game is on sale? Even if you don't do any further development?

From here

Ars Technica posted:

That fee can be cancelled any time, with the developer retaining access to the existing code. But users will have to resubscribe to make use of the latest updates to the engine's codebase (and will still obviously be on the hook for the royalties regardless of subscription status)

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Oh yeah, some more Sony stuff from GDC: Proper integrated Unity support for PS3 and Vita is out now, with PS4 support next month and PS4 MonoGame is out now (a game using it, Towerfall, has already shipped!).

Really weird to have it be technically possible to release a console game.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!


StickFigs posted:

I'm assuming if you pay $20 once, grab the source, then quit then you'll have the source but it will be stagnant where if you keep your subscription up to date you will have access to the newest revision.

I think they would have been better off giving the source code out free to everyone since there's no way to protect it from being distributed by users illegally without the super-high paywall it used to have. Then the subscription could grant you commercial release rights and 24/7 tech support or something.

EDIT: Come to think of it, does that mean you have to pay the subscription fee as long as your game is on sale? Even if you don't do any further development?

Reading through the FAQ and terms, you can pay $19 once, get the source code during that month and all its resources, and then stop paying. You will be bound to that particular version at this point -- and any codevs need to also be on that same version.

For under $20 asking, there's no reason for me to not just give them $20 instead of downloading it from somewhere shady.

Choice bits:

quote:

•Do I have to worry about a billing contract or penalties for cancelling my subscription?


Your subscription payment automatically recurs, but you’re free to cancel at any time. There’s no penalty for cancellation.

When you cancel your subscription, you won’t receive access to future releases of Unreal Engine 4, however your login will remain active, and you are free to continue using the versions of Unreal Engine 4 which you obtained as a subscriber under the terms of the EULA.


•What modifications can I make to the source code?


You can extend it, modify it, fork it, or integrate it with other software or libraries, with one exception: You can’t combine the Unreal Engine code with code covered by a “Copyleft” license agreement which would directly or indirectly require the Unreal Engine to be governed by terms other than the EULA. For example:
•Software licensed under the GNU General Public License (GPL), Lesser GPL (LGPL) (unless you are merely dynamically linking a shared library), or Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License is Copyleft Code.
•Software licensed under the BSD License, MIT License, Microsoft Public License, or Apache License is not Copyleft Code.


•Can I share the Unreal Engine source code or tools with others?


You can share the source code or tools, along with any modifications you’ve made, with anyone who is an Unreal Engine licensee who is authorized to access the same version of the engine as yours, e.g. the 4.x.x version number of your installed build.


•Can I copy and paste the Unreal Engine code into my own project or engine?


If you use any Unreal Engine code in your product (even just a little), then your entire product is governed by the EULA, and royalties are due.


•Can I study and learn from the Unreal Engine code, and then utilize that knowledge in writing my own game or competing engine?


Yes, as long as you don’t copy any of the code. Code is copyrighted, but knowledge is free!


•The Unreal Engine ships with a lot of content, and more is available in the Marketplace. Can I use this freely in my products?


Yes, you can ship our content in your products using the Unreal Engine. However, you can’t sell or sublicense our content to other developers for use in their products, e.g. via web site or e-commerce mechanism built into a 3D development tool.

So if you hear of a hot new fix that is for a version 3 months after you stop paying, you can't copy/paste their new function changes, but you can apply the fix in your own way and still be in the clear it sounds like.

Chronojam fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 19, 2014

SuicideSnowman
Jul 26, 2003
I gotta say this Unreal announcement is quite exciting to me. I love Unity but they put some of the best features in pro. Now I just gotta shake off the C++ rust since I've been working in C# for so long.

ceebee
Feb 12, 2004
Does anybody know if it is possible to make a whole game in the blueprint system in UE4 or will I have to learn C++? I've already started picking up C# but C++ looks like moon runes to me.

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mutata
Mar 1, 2003

I'm wondering that as well, and we may need to do some digging in the documentation or on the forums to find out.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/

https://forums.unrealengine.com/

And there's a Blueprint series of tutorials here that I'm going to start watching now:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZlv_N0_O1gaCL2XjKluO7N2Pmmw9pvhE

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