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guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob
Lead climbing class is tonight. Slightly terrified. Here goes nothing.

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George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





guppy posted:

Lead climbing class is tonight. Slightly terrified. Here goes nothing.

It's nothin. The falls are the best part

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008
Aw yiss, at my 5th trip to the bouldering gym I finally made it to the top of the big wall on two different V1's. My hands are starting to really protest and today I had to tape a blister to keep going. It's nothing to stop me though, the rush of nailing new routes each time is addicting (but probably wont happen each time).

There are "traverses" on the smaller-but-longer wall, which go sideways instead of up and they're pretty fun. I can only make it to about half of the easiest one before my forearms lose all strength but a good way to hold on more is to freak myself out by imagining i'm thousands of feet up on a cliff rather than just in a gym.

Manstrocity
Apr 28, 2009

SaltLick posted:

It's nothin. The falls are the best part

My lead partner outweighs me by maybe 90 pounds. I have mixed feelings about lead falls.

Manstrocity
Apr 28, 2009
Double post, but are there any Orange County-area climbers who want to hit Riverside Quarry next week? I have the Wednesday through Friday (26 - 28th) that I can get out there by about 3-4.

Nifty
Aug 31, 2004

Manstrocity posted:

Double post, but are there any Orange County-area climbers who want to hit Riverside Quarry next week? I have the Wednesday through Friday (26 - 28th) that I can get out there by about 3-4.

When my broken foot completely heals I'm down to go out there! (no that won't be by next week unfortunately)

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

SaltLick posted:

It's nothin. The falls are the best part

Yep the practice falls were definitely the most fun part. Gonna be a lot of practice mock leading to be safe and feel natural though.

Chris!
Dec 2, 2004

E

Sigmund Fraud posted:

Just be sure to know what you're doing. I've seen twice people setting up incorrect anchors. In one case the rope was threaded along and through a sling, causing the sling to almost burn off before I got them to stop. The second case had two ropes in parallel through an anchor, melting the second rope when repelling off the first.
There are many things to consider when setting up an anchor, how to protect the fixed slings from friction, how to balance loads and avoid magnifying them (eg the american death triangle). You also need to know how to rep to safely set up the anchors in some places.

In short: Sure you can do it but I would recommend just going a quick course in outdoor lead climbing and buy quickdraws instead of slings. You get to climb much more because you avoid the logistics of setting up anchors. One day with a guide and you will know the ropes (heh). If you climb under prepared you really do risk dying. And that would be pretty silly.

E: Also, buy a longer rope! Look up all the local crags and buy a rope 10 meters longer than the routes (you will need some extra since you will trim it down when the ends starts getting worn.

Thanks for the advice! My friend has done a course on how to set up, but it was quite a while ago so I guess we should do another one so I can be confident that everything's solid.

Rope's annoyingly expensive but I suppose it does save your life...! I'll look at getting 60m or so for my first rope then. Thanks again.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008
Is it better to go boukdering every other day or are some consecutive days ok?

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

Colonel J posted:

Is it better to go boukdering every other day or are some consecutive days ok?

Even every other day is kind of pushing it for me. I would say if you're new to climbing, don't do consecutive days. Let your climbing muscles develop over 6 months of every-other-day climbing. If you do a followup day, maybe consider focusing on the training boards or core exercises or something. Does your climbing gym have a classic gym section? Mine does, and there are usually core classes (or even yoga classes, which are great for flexibility) that you can take.

French Canadian fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Mar 18, 2014

canis minor
May 4, 2011

As a climbing newbie (I started something over a year ago), if that helps, I can say that in the beginning I was going once a week, for the first month. Then I bought a yearly climbing pass and started doing it twice a week for next 2 months. From now then I was going 3-2 a week, with schedule of Monday, Wednesday, Friday (week 1), Tuesday, Thursday (week 2) (purely due to the fact that I've to have Fridays and weekend free), but I imagine doing it every other day is quite feasible.

YMMV though - I was in terrible shape when I started climbing, having not been doing any workout routine.

Urethane
Dec 21, 2004

It depends on your experience and the intensity of your climbing.

Make sure to listen to what your body is telling you. Most of my minor muscle and tendon strains have come from climbing when my muscles were sore and stiff from the previous day.

Baldbeard
Mar 26, 2011

Bouldering every other day is quite a lot still and probably too much for most people to maintain long term, especially if you are pushing into new grades and challenging yourself. That said, don't climb sore and never climb stiff, and you should be okay.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008
All right thanks for the advice, I'll lay low for today. I'll probably try and find a good Yoga video as I read in this thread it was a good complementary exercise.

MOVIE MAJICK
Jan 4, 2012

by Pragmatica

Baldbeard posted:

Bouldering every other day is quite a lot still and probably too much for most people to maintain long term, especially if you are pushing into new grades and challenging yourself. That said, don't climb sore and never climb stiff, and you should be okay.

Why never climb stiff?

Baldbeard
Mar 26, 2011

WYA posted:

Why never climb stiff?

I guess I should have said stiff fingers. But if you're sore, you probably haven't recovered enough to tax your fingers with another session. If you're stiff, you probably haven't warmed up, or are experiencing inflammation, and its double trouble.

Tarnien
Jul 4, 2003
Champion of the World!!!
Everyone climbs at different rates. Your body will adjust to almost any amount of climbing over time, but pushing it too fast will result in injury. If you're going to go two days in a row, only do that once a week or every other week until you're sure your body can handle it. Any changes you make to your climbing routine should be made slowly, and listen if your body says you're going too fast.

With that said, climbing 2 days in a row is by no means bad. Plenty of people do it, but these people also have years of experience with climbing hard and listening to their bodies.

Manstrocity
Apr 28, 2009

Nifty posted:

When my broken foot completely heals I'm down to go out there! (no that won't be by next week unfortunately)

Fair enough. Send some way I can contact you to rockintherecspecs at gmail

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC
Wow... and here I was thinking of switching from climbing near daily to twice a day. Guess that's a bad idea around here?

Baldbeard
Mar 26, 2011

I didn't mean to make it sound like it was always a bad idea. I know of climbers who do back-to-back schedules and I've done it for months at a time as well, but almost everyone I've talked to says they get best results with a rest day between sessions. I guess it really depends on the intensity of your sessions and your experience. Also I'm just referring to bouldering, top-roping in the gym seems a lot less taxing on your body.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience
Off to Bishop this weekend! Anyone else gonna be out there?

I'd like to accomplish something in the 6/7/8 scale but I'll probably get shut down.

Maybe something in the Ice Caves in the Sads...there's a cool 10 that didn't seem to bad when I tried it.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008

French Canadian posted:

Off to Bishop this weekend! Anyone else gonna be out there?

I'd like to accomplish something in the 6/7/8 scale but I'll probably get shut down.

Maybe something in the Ice Caves in the Sads...there's a cool 10 that didn't seem to bad when I tried it.

Beef cake get some!

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005

WYA posted:

Why never climb stiff?
If your body is stiff your muscles are cold and with not a lot of blood pumping through them. You are much much more susceptible to damage then. Both from over stressing the muscles on hard moves and taking a fall or some other way shock-loading them.

FiestaDePantalones posted:

Wow... and here I was thinking of switching from climbing near daily to twice a day. Guess that's a bad idea around here?
(I'll go ahead and assume you climb 5.12 and been climbing steadily for a year minimum. Otherwise pushing your body this hard may just lead to injury.

After a session of heavy physical activity your muscles are worn and need time to recover - they enter a resting state and it is during this period new muscle fibers are formed - muscle fibers actually 'die off' during your workout. Not allowing sufficient rest between sessions will interrupt the recovery and your muscle strength and mass will deteriorate. I would never climb hard twice in a day.

You can climb consecutive days but you should then mix it up. If you've used the system wall, hang board, campus rungs or done heavy bouldering/climbing you should avoid it the next day. Such heavy things wear on quite fragile muscles as well as your connective tissue and sinews which need longer time to recover.

On your second days you could stick to anaerobic training like 4x4 bouldering circuits, laps with rest intervals. You can lead juggy and slopey routes and even add 3 second bent arm lock offs on grabbing new holds. Contact strength and isometric training is generally safe to do when you're tired.

I guess you could do aerobic endurance exercises, like ARC:ing (a 45 min session of continuous climbing) but I know I need a rest day after such a session. Laps and ARCs are also good for focusing on developing technique. If you just climb at max ability your technique will generally not develop as fast, or worse: you may learn sloppy technique.

Anyone who has been on a longer climbing trip knows that you can maintain a longer period of moderately hard climbing without rest days but afterwards you _will_ need a longer rest. After 11 days of onsight level climbing in Turkey I needed four days to recover fully.

Also, if you climb this heavy you should really add antagonist and injury prevention exercises to your routine.

E: At this level you could consider periodization but since it's my first year trying it and don't consider myself a good enough climber I'm not that well equipped to answer it.

Anyways, a general climbing cycle consists of:
1) endurance training (aerobic)
2) hyperthropy training (maximum strength)
3) recruitment training (strength and power),
4) interval training (anerobic)
5) a rest period or combining the interval training with an active rest period
7) sending hard

Sigmund Fraud fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Mar 19, 2014

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

jackchaos posted:

Beef cake get some!

It was a different one, that starts in the same spot but goes right along an overhanging arete. Maybe not a V10?

Also Disco Hulk...that would be rad.

Tarnien
Jul 4, 2003
Champion of the World!!!
Aquatic Hitchhiker. Thuggier, but probably easier.

Eat Bum Zen
Jul 19, 2013

*mumbles*
Rated T for Teen
Wait muscle fibers die off?

Baldbeard
Mar 26, 2011

Really you could climb 2 times a day or 10 times a day. What does 1 time or time in a day even mean? Does warming up and leaving count?
What matters is the intensity and length of each session. Just like you can go to the gym and bench press 7 days a week if you want to get technical.
What I can say with certainty is someone who is climbing 2x a day 7 days a week is not bouldering hard or long at all, because even moderately bouldering 7(14?)times a week for any length of time would be extremely taxing on the body and would literally debilitate any human body. Even professional climbing/training resources recommend 2-4 days a week average at peak, unless on some kind of short-term outing.

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC

Sigmund Fraud posted:

(I'll go ahead and assume you climb 5.12 and been climbing steadily for a year minimum. Otherwise pushing your body this hard may just lead to injury.

Nope. Generally follow Cavefish in the mornings and accessory work at lunch, paired with the required running/cardio for my organization, then climb just about every night for a couple of hours, in which I warm up with a pyramid of 4 5.6, 3 5.7, 2 5.8, and 1 5.9 back to back with as little rest between "steps" as possible and zero rest between repeats of the same route. Then focus on my current 5.10 projects, then when I am tired at the end another pyramid to help with the instant desire to power through and focus on form. I've been climbing for about a month, and probably missed four days total in that time.

My conundrum was whether to replace the weight training in the morning and lunchtime with more climbing and shorter maintenance based weight lifting at lunch.

DannyTanner
Jan 9, 2010

Doing a bodybuilding routine, on top of running and climbing every day seems like way too much. Your body has to recover.

Irving
Jun 21, 2003

DannyTanner posted:

Doing a bodybuilding routine, on top of running and climbing every day seems like way too much. Your body has to recover.

It depends on what you're looking for, I guess. It looks like he's interested in doing laps instead of climbing hard stuff, which will work fine if he's looking for endurance and some cardio. If you're not actually trying to climb hard, you don't need to give your hands as much of a break.

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC
I'd love to be climbing higher grade stuff, were I good enough. Right now I'm stuck at 5.10+ and 5.11 routes. I also eat insane amounts of healthy food, get plenty of sleep, and take a variety of supplements to help offset the strain all this causes to the body.

I do the pyramids at the suggestion of a much more talented and experienced climber as a way to focus on using technique over a period of time instead of just powering through every little problem I come across, because that gets extremely tiring after sending a few in a row.

Eat Bum Zen
Jul 19, 2013

*mumbles*
Rated T for Teen

FiestaDePantalones posted:

I'd love to be climbing higher grade stuff, were I good enough. Right now I'm stuck at 5.10+ and 5.11 routes. I also eat insane amounts of healthy food, get plenty of sleep, and take a variety of supplements to help offset the strain all this causes to the body.

I do the pyramids at the suggestion of a much more talented and experienced climber as a way to focus on using technique over a period of time instead of just powering through every little problem I come across, because that gets extremely tiring after sending a few in a row.

Hate to say it because I love doing more but unless you're on 'supplements' and not 'supplements' then there is a part of your routine you are half-assing. It's probably climbing, but be aware of that.

Also be aware of tendinitis, all the various kinds of wrist problems etc, which come from doing isolation on your biceps and triceps withou properly strengthening the top of your forearm, a problem which climbing exacerbates.

God speed.

Tarnien
Jul 4, 2003
Champion of the World!!!

FiestaDePantalones posted:

I've been climbing for about a month, and probably missed four days total in that time.

Just letting you know (and this is coming from someone who usually advocates 5+ sessions a week), you're going to get injured if you keep this up. Your first month of climbing you should not be climbing 6+ days a week (assuming you are getting a proper workout and not half-assing it). Your muscles grow faster than your ligaments, and soon enough those ligaments (the pulleys in your fingers) won't be able to keep up with the strength your muscles are putting out. Something is going to give.

Not to mention, given that your muscles are still in the early stages of development with regards to rock climbing, you might actually be hurting yourself in terms of strength gains by not giving them time to recover. The initial adjustment period of any sport is when the quickest muscular gains are made, and you might be handicapping yourself in that regard.

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005

FiestaDePantalones posted:

Nope. Generally follow Cavefish in the mornings and accessory work at lunch, paired with the required running/cardio for my organization, then climb just about every night for a couple of hours, in which I warm up with a pyramid of 4 5.6, 3 5.7, 2 5.8, and 1 5.9 back to back with as little rest between "steps" as possible and zero rest between repeats of the same route. Then focus on my current 5.10 projects, then when I am tired at the end another pyramid to help with the instant desire to power through and focus on form. I've been climbing for about a month, and probably missed four days total in that time.

My conundrum was whether to replace the weight training in the morning and lunchtime with more climbing and shorter maintenance based weight lifting at lunch.
Um you work projects every day without rest days? You might want to look into if you're on the early stages of developing overtraining syndrome.

If you're this serious about climbing I would recommend getting reading up on training for climbing. I like the book The Self-Coached Climber, but there are others. It has a very good chapter regarding how to set up your own training plan. Generally, I would say that at your level you want to mix up your climbing days a lot more. That you're still climbing 5.10 is one of your saving graces since pulling on jugs mostly work your major muscles and they can take a harsher beating - although I would be surprised if you don't develop bicep tendinitis or any sort of shoulder problems in the near future.

I would really recommend slowing it down and adding some exercises to train movement:

Movement initiation (hips, lower leg and upper leg), one hand traversing, no hand climbing, blind climbing, flagging traverse, 'every move a drop knee'-jug rally.

You might wanna watch the movie Improve your Climbing with Neil Gresham.

FiestaDePantalones
May 13, 2005

Kicked in the pants by TFLC
All right, I'll ease up guys, Thanks for the info. I know myself that I don't have the ligament strength for the more crimp heavy routes, so yeah I should probably be giving the hands more rest since that is when recovery happens. I understand the reasoning, but just hate the feeling of wasting time I could be lifting or climbing. Thanks for the advice, though. I'll try to chill a few times a week.

Edit: But seriously you guys were sending 5.12 that quick? Maybe I suck at this worse than I thought...

FiestaDePantalones fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Mar 20, 2014

Sigmund Fraud
Jul 31, 2005

FiestaDePantalones posted:

All right, I'll ease up guys, Thanks for the info. I know myself that I don't have the ligament strength for the more crimp heavy routes, so yeah I should probably be giving the hands more rest since that is when recovery happens. I understand the reasoning, but just hate the feeling of wasting time I could be lifting or climbing. Thanks for the advice, though. I'll try to chill a few times a week.

Edit: But seriously you guys were sending 5.12 that quick? Maybe I suck at this worse than I thought...
You really just compete with yourself, and with your dedication you will probably develop really fast. Former gymnasts and the like can develop really quickly and a gym going guy can brawl his way up V5s pretty much right off the bat (but may also develop poor technique which may hold him back longer than many other).

Some people are also naturally good climbers. Chris Sharma onsighted 6c on his first day.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

FiestaDePantalones posted:

All right, I'll ease up guys, Thanks for the info. I know myself that I don't have the ligament strength for the more crimp heavy routes, so yeah I should probably be giving the hands more rest since that is when recovery happens. I understand the reasoning, but just hate the feeling of wasting time I could be lifting or climbing. Thanks for the advice, though. I'll try to chill a few times a week.

Edit: But seriously you guys were sending 5.12 that quick? Maybe I suck at this worse than I thought...

It varies person to person. I would definitely say sending 5.12s does not happen quickly for most people and I think you are badly misinterpreting that comment. I've been climbing for about a year and I'm in the early stages of 5.10s if that makes you feel any better.

Please don't destroy your body by climbing too much. You aren't "wasting time" by not climbing every waking hour. This is not a healthy mindset at all.

I climb ~3 days a week when I can, which isn't every week, and I do some other stuff on some non-climbing days and rest on others. That's worked pretty well for me.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008

FiestaDePantalones posted:

All right, I'll ease up guys, Thanks for the info. I know myself that I don't have the ligament strength for the more crimp heavy routes, so yeah I should probably be giving the hands more rest since that is when recovery happens. I understand the reasoning, but just hate the feeling of wasting time I could be lifting or climbing. Thanks for the advice, though. I'll try to chill a few times a week.

Edit: But seriously you guys were sending 5.12 that quick? Maybe I suck at this worse than I thought...

Take up the guitar on your rest days or whatever, it's not a waste to do a thing that is supposed to be part of your routine i.e. resting.

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005
Fallen Rib

Chris! posted:

Thanks for the suggestion! That's a great idea and I'll give it a go.

Had a great indoor climbing followed by outdoor bouldering session today, and my friend and I are considering just buying 40m or so of rope and slings, and going ahead and having a go at setting up top ropes ourselves at the southern sandstone - how hard can it be? - and also having a go at leading indoors later in the week.

Had to take too long off from climbing due to injury this summer, and it feels great to be able to climb enthusiastically again.

40m is fine for most indoor stuff and a lot of UK cragging, but if you want to future proof yourself go for a 50m or 60m single. The extra cost and weight aren't overwhelming and you'll get a lot more out of it.
On top roping- getting a good belay and getting the rope to run well can take practice. Consider finding someone to learn off and have a google around, some of your southern sandstone crags have local codes of practice that people follow to stop this happening:

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Manstrocity
Apr 28, 2009
People set up some horrifying looking top rope anchors. If that was lava rock or something, running the rope over the edge like that could get you killed. So yeah, I wouldn't try and learn by just going to a crag and loving around.

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