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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i know at least two guys who fit this description perfectly the last one i dealt with managed to gently caress up both ssl and smtp auth, leaving imap in cleartext and having an open SMTP relay. he was a "security expert" who built "government systems". he convinced my client not to use windows for their server because it was too insecure. loving hilarious
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Mar 21, 2014 19:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:osx ui is also loving terrible "OS X confuses me because I have a giant beard and am reluctant to learn anything new"
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Mar 21, 2014 19:32
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os x has a lot of really clever and well implemented workarounds that kinda mitigate the fact that it is an absolutely awful window manager. it's easy to use despite itself
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Mar 21, 2014 19:35
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gnome has a lot of the same workarounds, poorly implemented, for much the same reasons.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:36
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there are maybe one or two things that osx does w/ window management that I'd like in windows but everything else is awful.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:38
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Window managers are hell for many reasons, but I'm curious: what features from Windows or otherwise would you like in our window manager? I'm doing a large-scale refactoring of our WM this cycle to clean up the Wayland support, so features will be quicker to add.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:42
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prob my fav recently added feature is the thing where you hover over an item in the task bar and get a thumbnail preview of the app and/or its tabs and then if you hover over the tabs it brings that window/tab forward for as long as you're hovering. altho for Linux I would suggest you start by adding font rendering that doesn't look like garbage. also hire someone to fix your icons. their all gross. altho tbqh I don't really even use Linux that much these days let alone a Linux gui. like really "just make it totally like windows" is your best option. that runs counter to linuxism but its also why it would be good. also I just got a little booklet for redhate training. can you take me off your mailing list? thanks.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:47
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gesture controlled window/tab picker (ala expose) and alt-tab style window switching with gestures would make things a lot quicker to navigate
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Mar 21, 2014 19:50
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mouse gestures are bad and so is expose.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:56
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Shaggar posted:altho for Linux I would suggest you start by adding font rendering that doesn't look like garbage. Let me know when you are seeing bad font rendering. We recently heavily improved the freetype autohinter, and so there's a few regressions here and there. Screenshots go a long way. Shaggar posted:also hire someone to fix your icons. their all gross. We hired four of them. They make some pretty great icons now. http://jimmac.musichall.cz/#icons Shaggar posted:also I just got a little booklet for redhate training. can you take me off your mailing list? thanks. All the mailing lists we manage internally have an unsubscribe button at the bottom. If it doesn't work, forward it to me at jasper@redhat.com . That usually means one of our marketing partners hosed up again. We have strict rules about no spamming.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:56
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infernal machines posted:gesture controlled window/tab picker (ala expose) and alt-tab style window switching with gestures would make things a lot quicker to navigate Expose has been part of GNOME3 since the beginning.
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Mar 21, 2014 19:57
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Suspicious Dish posted:Let me know when you are seeing bad font rendering. We recently heavily improved the freetype autohinter, and so there's a few regressions here and there. Screenshots go a long way. I haven't used a Linux gui since like redhate/centos 5.2 or something and then it was the default gnome which is that really ugly one thats been on Linux forever. so I probably haven't seen ur newer guis. I meant a litteral mail item. snail mail. it was also a joke.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:02
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Suspicious Dish posted:Expose has been part of GNOME3 since the beginning. and it doesn't work for poo poo. this is the poorly implemented part in my previous comment
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Mar 21, 2014 20:04
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Mind expanding on that? What issues are you having with it?
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Mar 21, 2014 20:06
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if you guys want to watch a terrible thing please go watch "linux action show" on youtube the fedora'd beard host isn't too bad when he's not getting poo poo straight up wrong, but the co-host is a complete pleb (evidence: he wears a "bazinga!" shirt on nearly every episode) it's insufferable
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Mar 21, 2014 20:06
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Suspicious Dish posted:We hired four of them. They make some pretty great icons now. brilliantly designed, and easy to understand:   and these two, photos, gallery? are they the same thing? who knows?  
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Mar 21, 2014 20:08
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Suspicious Dish, gnome 3 still owns a whole bunch and i use it every day, ty
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Mar 21, 2014 20:10
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Suspicious Dish posted:Mind expanding on that? What issues are you having with it? chunky/jittery animation, missed clicks, jumping windows at times. it also didn't seem to actually support gestures the last time i tried it, but that was a while ago now. i also seem to remember it only handling programs, not tabs or sub windows
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Mar 21, 2014 20:11
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also the overview is fine, gently caress the haters pidgin is garbage trash for babies and i'm surprised anyone still uses it
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Mar 21, 2014 20:11
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infernal machines posted:brilliantly designed, and easy to understand: Both look OK and easy to understand to me. infernal machines posted:and these two, photos, gallery? are they the same thing? who knows? He did two different Photos icons for two different customers.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:11
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this is neat though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpTHXEUTesA
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Mar 21, 2014 20:21
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infernal machines posted:chunky/jittery animation, missed clicks, jumping windows at times. it also didn't seem to actually support gestures the last time i tried it, but that was a while ago now. i'm using my on-chip GPU and don't have any performance problems. i don't recall the shell ever claiming to support gestures. infernal machines posted:i also seem to remember it only handling programs, not tabs or sub windows stop using tabs, use individual instances, spread them across workspaces (relevant to whatever you're working on in that space) $5 says the response is "b-b-but that breaks ~my workflow~"
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Mar 21, 2014 20:22
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oval office AND PASTE posted:i'm using my on-chip GPU and don't have any performance problems. i don't recall the shell ever claiming to support gestures. it doesn't break my workfow, because i just use os x for any *nix stuff i need, which supports all of what i mentioned and works with gestures. gestures are the key part though because having to use key combos to trigger the function or switch windows slows things down significantly, and is a big part of why it sucks on gnome.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:25
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infernal machines posted:chunky/jittery animation Honest question: what GPU are you using? Most of the performance issues we've seen are actually a combination of vsync and a bad GPU performance governor, namely Intel chips. Gory details over here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719368#c13 infernal machines posted:missed clicks, jumping windows at times. This absolutely shouldn't happen. I've never seen it myself. If you are interested in it at all and can manage to reproduce, please let me know and I'll try to track it down. infernal machines posted:it also didn't seem to actually support gestures the last time i tried it, but that was a while ago now. Yeah, gestures support is something that's a long-time coming. We've tried really really hard to add it to Xorg, but we've just sunk in a bunch of code and bad ideas. This is one of those things that Wayland could fix for us. infernal machines posted:i also seem to remember it only handling programs, not tabs or sub windows There's no API for an application to render and expose multiple tabs as separate surfaces right now. We could add such a feature, but it would be hell to automatically hook up.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:28
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infernal machines posted:it doesn't break my workfow, because i just use os x for any *nix stuff i need, which supports all of what i mentioned and works with gestures. gestures are the key part though because having to use key combos to trigger the function or switch windows slows things down significantly, and is a big part of why it sucks on gnome. Are you talking about touch gestures or mouse gestures? What sort of gestures do you want?
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Mar 21, 2014 20:28
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oval office AND PASTE posted:i'm using my on-chip GPU and don't have any performance problems. i don't recall the shell ever claiming to support gestures. the windows 7 taskbar solution is superior because it handles both the separate window and the separate tab scenarios the same way.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:28
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Shaggar posted:the windows 7 taskbar solution is superior because it handles both the separate window and the separate tab scenarios the same way. except no one uses internet explorer lol
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Mar 21, 2014 20:31
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Suspicious Dish posted:Honest question: what GPU are you using? Most of the performance issues we've seen are actually a combination of vsync and a bad GPU performance governor, namely Intel chips. since you're looking for honest feedback, i'll drop it. i can't reproduce the issues as i have neither the install nor the laptop it was running on any more. for reference it was a first gen intel i3 with intel GMA video, 8gb ram and an ssd. Suspicious Dish posted:Are you talking about touch gestures or mouse gestures? What sort of gestures do you want? touch gestures, although if it can be implemented in a sane way with mouse gestures, i'd love to see it.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:33
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oval office AND PASTE posted:except no one uses internet explorer lol firefox does it too, don't know about chrome. it's not as convenient as expose though
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Mar 21, 2014 20:34
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we only suffer 'tabs' to cater to environments that didn't have workspaces (like windows still doesn't) or to users didn't use them even if they were available there's coming to be less and less reason for tabbed anything on a desktop infernal machines posted:firefox does it too, don't know about chrome. it took years for support to show up in firefox, it still wasn't enabled by default, and it didn't work when i enabled it. i haven't used windows in six months, maybe it's changed since then. but windows 7 came out in 2009 and if it took them until late 2013 to turn this feature on, i can't imagine it's a trivial thing that any app can just turn on i don't use chrome much but i don't remember it working there, either
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Mar 21, 2014 20:39
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At least on my Windows 7 machine, it doesn't show all tabs as popups in the superbar. I remember that it used to, but I think they dropped that feature. infernal machines posted:touch gestures, although if it can be implemented in a sane way with mouse gestures, i'd love to see it. Yeah, as I said, XI2 and WM gestures are nearly impossible from a code perspective. It stems from the whole "oh we should support every possible use case and combination" and when we try to write the code it just gets stuck and hangs. We genuinely tried and wrote code, though. It might be a bit out of date, but here's our current design for gestures: https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Gestures Does that look OK to you? I don't think it's gotten any feedback yet, so it's in no way set in stone.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:40
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infernal machines posted:firefox does it too, don't know about chrome. yeah its more convenient
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Mar 21, 2014 20:40
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oval office AND PASTE posted:it took years for support to show up in firefox, it still wasn't enabled by default, and it didn't work when i enabled it. i haven't used windows in six months, maybe it's changed since then. but windows 7 was 2009 and if it took them until 2014 to turn this feature on, i can't imagine it's a trivial thing that any app can just turn on It used to be on by default, but it meant that clicking on the giant Firefox icon to switch to Firefox didn't work. I hated that feature when it was on.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:41
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idk why youd use an app that would purposefully break the preview window for no reason. thats pretty dumb.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:41
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Suspicious Dish posted:Window managers are hell for many reasons, but I'm curious: what features from Windows or otherwise would you like in our window manager? I'm doing a large-scale refactoring of our WM this cycle to clean up the Wayland support, so features will be quicker to add. please add a WM hint indicating that a program is a terminal, then make Alt-Tab in GNOME 3 treat each terminal as a separate application. A terminal isn't a also i really wish that Alt+Tab wouldn't cross virtual desktops because that kind of defeats the entire point of isolating your ~*workflows*~ like that in the first place (no i don't want to cycle through all 30 programs i currently have open, i hate that poo poo in windows), but the gnome 3 people seem pretty dead set on keeping it that way so i guess i'll have to make do with hoping somebody puts this in an extension. (I read the metacity wayland branch commit logs when I'm bored. I'm pretty sure I'm the most pathetic person itt  )
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Mar 21, 2014 20:43
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oval office AND PASTE posted:we only suffer 'tabs' to cater to environments that didn't have workspaces (like windows still doesn't) or to users didn't use them even if they were available actually its an extremely trivial thing if you're using the systems native ui components. even those ancient window w/ smaller interior windows (I forget the name of it) windows 3.11 style apps supported it cause its all just calls down to the native apis. failfox probably uses gtk or some similar garbage if it didn't work or something., idk if thats right though cause I seem to recall even firefox had it like a few months into the win7 beta. I cant know for sure cause I don't use bad browsers.
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Mar 21, 2014 20:44
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the windows 7 superbar is literally the best iteration of the taskbar that's ever been done, it's too bad windows is forever broken
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Mar 21, 2014 20:44
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put it this way Alternate Tab is far and away the most popular extension on e.g.o and there's a reason for that. e: er, or was
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Mar 21, 2014 20:45
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Shaggar posted:actually its an extremely trivial thing if you're using the systems native ui components. even those ancient window w/ smaller interior windows (I forget the name of it) windows 3.11 style apps supported it cause its all just calls down to the native apis. no, i remember it took a year or so after windows 7 release for it to even work into the testing builds, which i switched to right away and was disappointed that it never worked i followed it closely because i really loved the feature and couldn't understand why apps didn't/couldn't implement it immediately
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Mar 21, 2014 20:47
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just looked at the latest firefox on windows and it still doesn't have the tab preview on the taskbar lol
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Mar 21, 2014 20:50
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