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19 was a fun age.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:30
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:19 was a fun age. I admit I saw that picture and was sorely tempted to go look around at the current state of watercooling now that I have disposable income...but no time  I heard DangerDen died. 
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Mar 26, 2014 23:22
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I want to make a joke about their office being made of lovely acrylic that fogged over time and eventually failed catastrophically in a storm
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Mar 27, 2014 13:47
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movax posted:I admit I saw that picture and was sorely tempted to go look around at the current state of watercooling now that I have disposable income...but no time I am kind of in the same boat. I am planning on building a over-powered and over-priced PC later this year. I never could justify the cost of a water cooled system when I had the time to do one. But now that I can afford it, I really don't care about spending the time to keep one up. I am leaning towards doing a closed loop set up instead.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:59
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Lowen SoDium posted:I am kind of in the same boat. I am planning on building a over-powered and over-priced PC later this year. I never could justify the cost of a water cooled system when I had the time to do one. But now that I can afford it, I really don't care about spending the time to keep one up. Custom watercooling doesn't really let you get more speed out of your crap, because Haswell just hits limits before it's actually overheating. I even close-loop watercool my GPU and it doesn't get over 60 doing gaming but I run into core limits just due to the technical limits of the card itself. Custom watercooling is more just for kicks and cool points and hobbyism. Closed-loop is definitely going to let you reach the hardware limits of your hardware and still be drat quiet.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:18
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ShaneB posted:Custom watercooling doesn't really let you get more speed out of your crap, because Haswell just hits limits before it's actually overheating. I even close-loop watercool my GPU and it doesn't get over 60 doing gaming but I run into core limits just due to the technical limits of the card itself. Custom watercooling is more just for kicks and cool points and hobbyism. Closed-loop is definitely going to let you reach the hardware limits of your hardware and still be drat quiet. What loop and what kind of mount did you us on your GPU? The Kraken G10 mount looks like it's the most popular right now.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:30
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Lowen SoDium posted:What loop and what kind of mount did you us on your GPU? The Kraken G10 mount looks like it's the most popular right now. G10 with a cheap Corsair H55 and an Enermax Magma fan at 5 volts.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:44
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ShaneB posted:Custom watercooling doesn't really let you get more speed out of your crap, because Haswell just hits limits before it's actually overheating. I even close-loop watercool my GPU and it doesn't get over 60 doing gaming but I run into core limits just due to the technical limits of the card itself. Custom watercooling is more just for kicks and cool points and hobbyism. Closed-loop is definitely going to let you reach the hardware limits of your hardware and still be drat quiet. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but this is what I've run into as well. My cheap $60 AIO keeps my 4670k cool enough to operate, under load, at ~1.47 vcore. This is obviously too much voltage, but my limitation is now with the chip itself rather than cooling. This is after delidding though, which literally makes or breaks this statement as before the heat was out of control in comparison. However since Intel specifically said they fixed this with the refresh this might apply to all Haswells from this point on (even if you have to buy a nicer AIO or something). I don't know how really high end video cards behave though. In my experience so far, after applying new thermal paste, there is nothing I can do to make my video cards get too hot with just the factory air coolers. I've only had 660 ti's so far, but one was bios volt modded and running almost 300 MHz over base clock and I could barely hit 40% fan duty under full load for hours at 66 degrees. I could have set the fan profile to keep it cooler but I sold it before that. So far I'm very pleased with my closed loop all in one experience so far. I don't feel like I *need* more (although I want more).
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Mar 27, 2014 20:30
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ShaneB posted:Custom watercooling doesn't really let you get more speed out of your crap, because Haswell just hits limits before it's actually overheating. I even close-loop watercool my GPU and it doesn't get over 60 doing gaming but I run into core limits just due to the technical limits of the card itself. Custom watercooling is more just for kicks and cool points and hobbyism. Closed-loop is definitely going to let you reach the hardware limits of your hardware and still be drat quiet. The reality is that it's just really, really hard to get performance from water cooling that's competitive with air. You can certainly do it with a custom cooling setup, but that's a LOT of work and you have to put in a lot of care not to get performance much worse than you expect.
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Mar 27, 2014 22:56
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Alereon posted:Haswell CPUs are thermally limited when overclocking because of the poor thermal interface between the CPU die and heat spreader. This is why delidding makes such a significant difference. Haswell Refresh CPUs launched this summer have that fixed, cooling performance will become more of a limiting factor (though it will also be easier to cool CPUs). I guess I always forget I delidded my CPU the instant I removed it from the box... What I'm saying though is that even de-lidded and watercooled and chilling oh so frosty I can't hit 4.6ghz unless I throw more voltage than is sane at it. It's not a heat issue holding me back. Just my binning luck.
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Mar 27, 2014 23:31
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ShaneB posted:I guess I always forget I delidded my CPU the instant I removed it from the box... A 20% OC was about average for SB, so yeah, delidding brought you back to the previous average.
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Mar 27, 2014 23:41
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deimos posted:A 20% OC was about average for SB, so yeah, delidding brought you back to the previous average. 20% from boost clock is respectable and reasonable I'd say; 20% from base is very conservative for Sandy. vv Yeah, my 2500K is at 4.4 on air (Corsair A70, fans controlled by the board) with the voltage offset down (a hair over 1.2v under load) with no stability issues since I built the machine. Since it seems to like running fast with low voltage, I could probably push it harder, but how much more do I really need? (Actually, when trying to encode 1920x1200 x264 in real time while playing games, I could use more, but I'm not going to ruin a good thing). HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 23:55
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HalloKitty posted:20% from boost clock is respectable I'd say; 20% from base is very conservative for Sandy. Weren't people getting 4.4 GHz pretty trivially? On the 2500k, that's a 33% boost from stock.
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Mar 27, 2014 23:58
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HalloKitty posted:20% from boost clock is respectable and reasonable I'd say; 20% from base is very conservative for Sandy. Would it be worth over clocking my I52500k on just a stock fan or would there be too much of a heat problem to really gain any performance out of it?
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Mar 28, 2014 01:14
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Sumptious posted:Would it be worth over clocking my I52500k on just a stock fan or would there be too much of a heat problem to really gain any performance out of it? I never actually used the stock heatsink/fan, so I couldn't say, but someone else may have experience with that.
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Mar 28, 2014 01:19
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Sumptious posted:Would it be worth over clocking my I52500k on just a stock fan or would there be too much of a heat problem to really gain any performance out of it? For a while, I had to use the stock HSF since the fan on my aftermarket one broke. I didn't test to see how much I could push it, but it was good enough to handle mine at 4 GHz.
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Mar 28, 2014 01:27
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I used stock with my 2550K for a little while. I'm pretty sure I got a 2-300MHZ higher turbo boost for free. I didn't have much money at the time and bought a Hyper 212 EVO for 30 or 40 bucks and get the thing up to 4.5. (that is, it will turboboost up to 4.5ghz depending on processor utilisation of the software)
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Mar 28, 2014 02:06
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unpronounceable posted:Weren't people getting 4.4 GHz pretty trivially? On the 2500k, that's a 33% boost from stock. IIRC the average overclock people could get on air with the 2500k/2600k was in the 4.5-4.7GHz range with little effort, I actually was able to run at 5GHz on air with a cheap case and cooler for a while but backed it off a bit since I was using a lot of voltage.
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Mar 28, 2014 02:21
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ShaneB posted:Custom watercooling doesn't really let you get more speed out of your crap, because Haswell just hits limits before it's actually overheating. I even close-loop watercool my GPU and it doesn't get over 60 doing gaming but I run into core limits just due to the technical limits of the card itself. Custom watercooling is more just for kicks and cool points and hobbyism. Closed-loop is definitely going to let you reach the hardware limits of your hardware and still be drat quiet. This is exactly why I still watercool. I have been running the same pumps/radiators for going on 7 years now. When I first built everything I was living in an apartment and my computer was the only thing I could really tinker with. I just switch out video waterblocks whenever I upgrade. Most of my money really should be going towards my bug but I still need to find someone willing to take it in and just get it finished, cause I'm sick of working on it myself. gently caress doing bodywork.
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Mar 28, 2014 16:21
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At the risk of this being super GPU unrelated, to address some of the posts above, keep in mind that Haswell clocks != as previous generations. You can fudge a little (~5-10%+ more) when comparing clock speeds with previous generations. It is absolutely true that getting 5.0 out of a Haswell (currently) is virtually impossible, although not impossible, even after delidding. However I, and most people, can get 4.4 GHz on air without delidding without much effort. As in if you can't get 4.4 under any circumstance you're probably better off exchanging it. Depending on your luck, its generally accepted that you can reasonably expect 4.5-4.6 on nice air, although you will be pushing it thermally without delidding. So if Intel does fix the heat issue we will almost certainly seeing Haswell push passed previous generations with "corrected" clock speeds, although not by a ton. Does anybody know of a solid, real time separate FPS monitor with graph? Ideally with vram usage, and if its even possible, usage of regular ram when vram runs out.
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Mar 28, 2014 18:00
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Well, in the end after much agonizing, I decided to use the time honored product selection methodology of 'buy the thing they actually had in stock'. tomorrow I'll be assembling my new rig to see what it can do.
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Mar 30, 2014 06:15
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Ignoarints posted:Does anybody know of a solid, real time separate FPS monitor with graph? Ideally with vram usage, and if its even possible, usage of regular ram when vram runs out. MSI Afterburner does this.
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Mar 31, 2014 00:27
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deimos posted:MSI Afterburner does this. Oh drat I didn't know it had an FPS graph
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Mar 31, 2014 03:11
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Baaah. I couldn't wait for the new stuff any longer as my trusty old 560ti was starting to sound funny. Ordered a MSI 780 gaming. POSSIBLY overkill for 1080p, but it was 15% off!
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Mar 31, 2014 05:10
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Peppi posted:Baaah. I couldn't wait for the new stuff any longer as my trusty old 560ti was starting to sound funny. Consider the GTX 780 an investment in protecting yourself from terribly optimized games. I get annoyed playing Assassin's Creed 4 on a GTX 770 since the game will dip to sub-30 FPS at times.
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Mar 31, 2014 06:30
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Peppi posted:Baaah. I couldn't wait for the new stuff any longer as my trusty old 560ti was starting to sound funny. Heh that's gonna be a big jump
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Mar 31, 2014 14:51
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Beautiful Ninja posted:Consider the GTX 780 an investment in protecting yourself from terribly optimized games. I get annoyed playing Assassin's Creed 4 on a GTX 770 since the game will dip to sub-30 FPS at times. What settings are you running at, though? Black Flag is fairly feature intensive compared to most console ports, and Ubisoft actually put in a fair effort making the PC version good and keeping it in Montreal rather than outsource it as they have with previous ports.
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Mar 31, 2014 15:02
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Jan posted:What settings are you running at, though? Black Flag is fairly feature intensive compared to most console ports, and Ubisoft actually put in a fair effort making the PC version good and keeping it in Montreal rather than outsource it as they have with previous ports. Well I tried max settings except for AA and left that at FXAA. Dropped the detail texture quality to high since I read the highest setting murders PC. It runs fine in general but it's really the only game I have that I can't play at max settings and have it run butter smooth at 1080p. At least AC4 has the looks to match the performance requirements, the game is beautiful looking.
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Mar 31, 2014 15:21
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Ignoarints posted:Heh that's gonna be a big jump I went from SLI 460 (which was disabled 99% of the time due to SLI not working in most games, so single 460 the majority of the time) + 9800 for physx to a 780..Although I plan on moving to 1440p within a few months.
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Mar 31, 2014 16:38
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Dark Solux posted:I went from SLI 460 (which was disabled 99% of the time due to SLI not working in most games, so single 460 the majority of the time) + 9800 for physx to a 780..Although I plan on moving to 1440p within a few months. I haven't yet had a game not work with SLI, does it just not produce a picture or did it just revert to one card on its own?
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Mar 31, 2014 16:41
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Ignoarints posted:I haven't yet had a game not work with SLI, does it just not produce a picture or did it just revert to one card on its own? Generally crashes (Planetside 2, BF4) or I get microstuttering (Diablo 3, Borderlands 2, ect). Part of the reason is probably drivers, or lack thereof support of 400-series GPUs. Its time to move on.
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Mar 31, 2014 16:46
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Dark Solux posted:Generally crashes (Planetside 2, BF4) or I get microstuttering (Diablo 3, Borderlands 2, ect). Part of the reason is probably drivers, or lack thereof support of 400-series GPUs. Its time to move on. Oh ok, must have been drivers for sure since I play 3 out of 4 of those games with no issues. At least, nothing abnormal. After a long period of loving around with settings I finally have my (660ti SLI) setup working as well as I'd like. This was my first SLI and it was a small journey, but in the end it is totally worthwhile. I have some minor screen tearing I can't get rid of but I've all but eliminated microstutters which were FAR more annoying. I've been very impressed with the performance I can get with very minor downsides. On the flip side, this setup technically surpasses a Titan's performance so it is a little depressing to know if I actually wanted truly better I'd have to really shell out some money for any single card, and the next SLI step up is also quite a bump in money. Well in fact now that I look into it, I don't think any current single card would be worth the money for me now. There aren't any 660ti SLI and 780ti comparisons, but I can't imagine it'd be much better. Certainly not for over twice as much money. Ignoarints fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 16:51
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Ignoarints posted:Oh ok, must have been drivers for sure since I play 3 out of 4 of those games with no issues. At least, nothing abnormal. After a long period of loving around with settings I finally have my (660ti SLI) setup working as well as I'd like. This was my first SLI and it was a small journey, but in the end it is totally worthwhile.
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Mar 31, 2014 17:39
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Rastor posted:Can you provide some rough guidelines what sort of settings changes to make? I used BF4 (1080p) as my game to test settings with since it showed the most issues. Basically I wanted everything maxed out, including global settings, but I got a lot of FPS dips, some intermittent microstutters, and a little screen tearing. A lot of the vsync modes were pretty bad since everytime I got a dip in fps it could get locked in at 30 fps for a few seconds because of the nature of the vsync mode (such as "smooth" or "adaptive smooth"). Also I wasn't pleased with the input lag of some of the vsync modes which was surprisingly noticeable. After all was said and done it came down frame limiting the game 1 fps below my screen refresh rate. This really took a load of the video cards (which would try to push 120-180 fps). Some say set the framelimit to even with your monitor or 1 over, but I got the best results with 1 under for SLI. I ended up leaving global vsync settings off. When frame limited, vsync worked out pretty well but in end the ingame vsync had the least input lag. Also gameplay was now so smooth the global vsync benefit simply wasn't worth the performance hit. More specific for the 660ti's I actually removed my clock speed overclock and really pushed my memory overclock. The memory overclock helped tremendously with the microstutters. That combined with the frame limiting they are basically gone entirely. I still get very (very) minor screen tearing in a few situations. I only notice it because I've been hyper sensitive to every little thing during this process, but I do not believe I'll be able to get rid of it completely. It is a completely unobtrusive amount though. For example, I can see it on the bottom portion of my screen when I'm turning in a jet in BF4. Anyways, after a significant amount messing with every setting I could touch and find information on, the key for me was frame limiting. Then the memory speed was a big step to smoothing everything out.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:02
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Thanks! My current setup isn't SLI but I've been thinking about doing an SLI rig and if/when I pull the trigger this will be very helpful.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:46
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Rastor posted:Thanks! My current setup isn't SLI but I've been thinking about doing an SLI rig and if/when I pull the trigger this will be very helpful. I was a little hesitant due to bad stories from early SLI years, but as far as I can tell they don't really apply anymore (at least, for modern titles). I would recommend it to pretty much anyone if the card was still driver supported. I'm starting to suspect the core issue I had was insufficient memory bandwidth, and SLI may have exasperated the effect. So perhaps if memory was a serious bottleneck you might not get a great SLI experience, but this is just a theory for me. Ignoarints fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 19:44
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Beautiful Ninja posted:Consider the GTX 780 an investment in protecting yourself from terribly optimized games. I get annoyed playing Assassin's Creed 4 on a GTX 770 since the game will dip to sub-30 FPS at times. Are you serious? I'm waiting for Assassin's Creed 4 to go on sale on Steam and I have a slower 660Ti. I'm not asking for the ultra setting at 1440p I'm only asking for the high setting at 1080p.
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Apr 1, 2014 03:11
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Really stupid question: Can I leave the SLI-connector covers on when I install a card, or will they melt and make my house catch on fire?
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Apr 1, 2014 11:24
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Leave them on there, that's where they are meant to be 
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Apr 1, 2014 11:59
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BurritoJustice posted:Leave them on there, that's where they are meant to be Thank you! Everyone laugh at me now.
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Apr 1, 2014 12:29
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