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zedprime posted:BG2 has like a baseline balance that means it is immediately accessible to play (assuming you can wrap your head around basic AD&D) and min maxing is a bonus. Arcanum needs you to start rooting around in the depths of the mechanics very early on like the aforementioned Black Mountain Mine, which is very early into the storyline. BG2 uses the AD&D rules so it's kind of inherently broken, sorry dude.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:15
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WarLocke posted:BG2 uses the AD&D rules so it's kind of inherently broken, sorry dude. And an insanely bizarre, half-implemented, non-intuitive, super cryptic version of those rules, as well.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:27
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But ones that just worked and people who didn't give a poo poo about D&D could just play and not really think about the mechanics and implementations that much.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:28
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Until Throne of Bhaal 
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Mar 28, 2014 20:32
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For your consideration, Serpent in the Staglands. Good Darklands feels. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1649838104/serpent-in-the-staglands 
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Mar 28, 2014 20:43
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I like the Ultima-like metal gauntlet cursor. Will consider backing. By the way, rope kid, I hope the hand-cursor for PoE is shaping up well 
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Mar 28, 2014 20:48
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rope kid posted:For your consideration, Serpent in the Staglands. Good Darklands feels. Heck yes! I loved the idea and setting of Darklands but I couldn't get around the interface.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:53
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I wasn't going to back that because I'm usually bad at games like that, but then I go and see "Guy Gavriel Kay" in the inspirations list....
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Mar 28, 2014 20:56
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Hannibal Rex posted:You have in-game stories about how the flower of knighthood got annihilated by a rifle company Key term. Most knightly gear and training was borderline bespoke, as magic would be. Outfitting pike and rifle lines was, on the other hand, borderline commodity. Of course one person is better off with the fancy poo poo, because you are not a company on your own and they need to bring one out against you to even the odds. And nothing said the knight had to fight alone. Also your regularly scheduled 'flower of knighthood nothing warrior nobles fought like filthy assholes' yadda yadda blah blah blah. dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 20:57
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LogicNinja posted:I wasn't going to back that because I'm usually bad at games like that, but then I go and see "Guy Gavriel Kay" in the inspirations list.... I can show you a whole world of my little pony fanfiction inspired by george rr martin to sean russell, so don't go thinking that inspiration is equal to output.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:08
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Drifter posted:I can show you a whole world of my little pony fanfiction inspired by george rr martin to sean russell Please don't.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:11
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Rope Kid scoffs at you grognards
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Mar 28, 2014 21:28
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WarLocke posted:BG2 uses the AD&D rules so it's kind of inherently broken, sorry dude. To this day, despite having it explained to me half a dozen times, THAC0 remains as intelligible to me as a slab of cuneiform.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:47
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Eminently sensible stuff. I am actually very excited by the idea of spending a lot of time reading and playing around with lots of different (and significant!) speech options, because that is the part I have missed the most in many newer RPGs.
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Mar 28, 2014 22:04
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SurrealityCheck posted:Eminently sensible stuff. I am actually very excited by the idea of spending a lot of time reading and playing around with lots of different (and significant!) speech options, because that is the part I have missed the most in many newer RPGs. Same. My favorite part of Alpha Protocol was when you met with Marston in rome to play mindgames outside a cafe. Plus, well written rear end in a top hat dialogue options are awesome.
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Mar 28, 2014 22:14
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Radio Talmudist posted:To this day, despite having it explained to me half a dozen times, THAC0 remains as intelligible to me as a slab of cuneiform. Lower is better. That's literally all you have to know. If two weapons are equal but one gives you a THACO of 3 instead of 4, go with that. I could go into the full spiel about how THACO stands for 'To Hit Armor Class Zero' and yadda yadda, but you don't need to know any of that to operate in the game. THACO's actually one of the sorts of rules that I like. All you really need to know can be summed up in one sentence, but if you really want to sperg out and dig into the math and dice rolls to min/max your fight odds, you can. Easily usable for pretty much everyone, but some more depth for those who take it upon themselves to dig. To me that's one of the best ways to design a gameplay mechanic. The only complaint re: THACO I can really understand is the fact that the term 'THACO' is totally meaningless gibberish at first glance. If they had just called it 'hit probability' or some poo poo that probably would've fixed like 90% of the confusion.
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Mar 28, 2014 22:53
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Later editions do it much better. All you need to know about AC is that higher is better. All you need to know about attack rating is higher is better. No counting down to zero then wrapping into negatives. The whole "0 Armor Class is good" and "negative Armor class is even better than zero!" were the dumbest poo poo.
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Mar 28, 2014 22:56
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DatonKallandor posted:Later editions do it much better. All you need to know about AC is that higher is better. All you need to know about attack rating is higher is better. No counting down to zero then wrapping into negatives. The whole "0 Armor Class is good" and "negative Armor class is even better than zero!" were the dumbest poo poo. When I was playing Icewind Dale as a kid, I understood that lower AC was better and then got a bit confused when I found a magic +1 armor. But but but it's magical, it should be better why does it say plus 1 AC? 
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Mar 28, 2014 23:09
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Yeah, the most confusing bits of the THACO system where not the attack bonuses but the stats on the defense side.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:14
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WarLocke posted:BG2 uses the AD&D rules so it's kind of inherently broken, sorry dude. Sure, but BG2 is incredibly well balanced. It's almost impossible to create a character or party that can't beat the game. Sure, some are clearly better, but none are outright bad awful.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:34
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rope kid posted:We will probably need to iterate on their base bonuses a little more, but currently all of the weapons are distinguished from each other by minor base effects like this. Sabres cause DoTs, pikes have reach, estocs and stilettos negate a portion of DT, maces do "best of" Pierce or Crush damage, daggers are inherently accurate, etc. This sounds great.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:46
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Reminder for the procrastinating backers who are designing items and NPCs, the deadline's Monday so it's your last weekend to get your stuff in the game.
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Mar 29, 2014 00:19
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Wouldn't grognards be the ones to love reading though?
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Mar 29, 2014 00:45
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The grognard bits is not about the reading, it's the "gotcha" moments' part:quote:“Combat encounters that can only be completed a certain way or (situations where) you have to have one of these characters, or you have to have these two characters,” said Sawyer, “those ‘gotcha!’ moments that some gamers love, well… God bless you I guess, but we’re not gonna do that.”
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Mar 29, 2014 00:50
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Otto Skorzeny posted:Nb. the GoG version comes pre-patched to 1.0.7.4, so you can install the UAP, hq townmaps, hi res patch etc right off the bat Virtual machine is the way to go. Being able to play in a window at a reasonable resolution is huge.
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Mar 29, 2014 00:58
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Kurtofan posted:The grognard bits is not about the reading, it's the "gotcha" moments' part: I swear to god it boggles my mind. I can't imagine ANYONE going "Whee! I can't complete the game now, I better start over but this time I'll be sure to collect that candlestick and level up my lockpicking and mace skills! Oh man, they sure got me good with that!" It's so weird that people like that exist.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:07
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Agean90 posted:Same. My favorite part of Alpha Protocol was when you met with Marston in rome to play mindgames outside a cafe. That is the best "fight" in the game, and probably the high-point of the entire game as far as I am concerned.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:45
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Drifter posted:I swear to god it boggles my mind. I can't imagine ANYONE going "Whee! I can't complete the game now, I better start over but this time I'll be sure to collect that candlestick and level up my lockpicking and mace skills! Oh man, they sure got me good with that!" The people that would start over are the OCD people that punch their screen when they realize there was a pair of boots they didnt collect and their special voices tell them they arent perfect enough. The only actual trap I remember running into was Ultima V and that loving box. Radio Talmudist posted:THAC0 remains as intelligible to me as a slab of cuneiform.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:51
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Drifter posted:I swear to god it boggles my mind. I can't imagine ANYONE going "Whee! I can't complete the game now, I better start over but this time I'll be sure to collect that candlestick and level up my lockpicking and mace skills! Oh man, they sure got me good with that!" No, it's people who like to feel smart lording it over new players.
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Mar 29, 2014 01:51
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Apparently one of the $5,000 custom inn/tavern backers hasn't responded to Obsidian so on the off chance anyone here knows one of them...
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Mar 29, 2014 02:03
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BTW the armor class lower = better goes all the way back to the original Chainmail rules and was just continually updated from that basic premise through the end of 2nd Ed. It's really crazy how much staying power early conventions have.
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Mar 29, 2014 02:05
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rope kid posted:BTW the armor class lower = better goes all the way back to the original Chainmail rules and was just continually updated from that basic premise through the end of 2nd Ed. It's really crazy how much staying power early conventions have. Was this a holdover from the wargames they used to play before they decided to make it into warriors and axemen?
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Mar 29, 2014 02:32
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Mordaedil posted:Was this a holdover from the wargames they used to play before they decided to make it into warriors and axemen? Yes. The specific rules they ripped off were from a battleship combat game, because a dude with a sword is basically the same as a boat.
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Mar 29, 2014 02:46
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Tendales posted:Yes. The specific rules they ripped off were from a battleship combat game, because a dude with a sword is basically the same as a boat. I read this and immediately thought of Civilization, where they are.
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Mar 29, 2014 02:56
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I read this and immediately thought of Civilization, where they are. UGGGHHH this reminds me of this one game of Civ where my Battleship got sunk by a sole militia. And a little later, a Musketeer shot down my bomber.
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Mar 29, 2014 03:36
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Disappointed that grognard link was to Wiktionary instead of RPG Codex.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:25
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rope kid posted:For your consideration, Serpent in the Staglands. Good Darklands feels. Pledged and ready. Can't give much this time, but at least I snagged a copy.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:44
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Tendales posted:Yes. The specific rules they ripped off were from a battleship combat game, because a dude with a sword is basically the same as a boat. And a mage is basically a trebuchet! It's really great how many people paint Gygax's (rip) design decisions as being divinely inspired genius when the majority of them were just torn out of wargames or thrown together in five minutes because his gaming buddy wanted to play a vampire or something.
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Mar 29, 2014 13:14
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Its so edgy to constantly repeat "lol dnd suxxor gygax is dum" while playing games that exist because of DnD.
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Mar 29, 2014 13:29
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FRINGE posted:Its so edgy to constantly repeat "lol dnd suxxor gygax is dum" while playing games that exist because of DnD. Our method of communication exists because of the English language but that doesn't mean the English language also isn't a bunch of random poo poo put together by people who needed something convenient.
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