Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

Halloween Jack posted:

I remember when he was given Sinosic, who was 1-5 in the UFC and basically came back just to lose to Bisping and wash out. Then after the Hamill and Evans fights showed he wasn't ready for prime time, he was given McCarthy, who also came back from the indies just to lose a retirement fight to Bisping. Then when the Henderson demonstrated that he still hadn't stepped up to the next level, he got Denis Kang. After loving up the chance to look great by beating an over-the-hill Wanderlei, he got the guy who lost to both of the prominent middleweight contenders. In retrospect, he did eventually step up, but back in 08-09 it really felt like he was being bottle-fed until he was strong enough, and he easily could have washed out without the benefit of some clever booking.
That reads like pretty normal matchmaking to me. Win at the lower level, fight a tougher guy. Lose to that guy? Back to the lower level. Bisping has just never gotten completely out of that cycle by repeatedly winning the high level fights, which would presumably have resulted in him fighting higher level guys continuously.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS
After the Rashad fight (which was the first loss of his career) he dropped to mw, Mcarthy was his middleweight debut. Kang wasn't a joke when he fought him. After Wanderlei he fought Dan Miller. He's lost to Rashad, Hendo, Wanderlei, Chael, and Vitor, all top level fighters and 2 of those were very close. He's beaten every mid level fighter he's faced and made quite a few look silly.

Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010
Also.

Bisping met McCarthy and Kang as they were coming off wins and he was coming off losses, meaning they were being matched upwards and he downwards. McCarthy wasn't a UFC washout brought back just to lose to Bisping, he was on TUF4. That was the "comeback" season where they stocked the house with guys who had washed out of the UFC or were still in it but had never made a title run. McCarthy won his fight on the finale card so he got another fight, which was Bisping.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Grifter posted:

I always think about this when I compare the visual of a knockout vs. how it must feel.



It looks like barely a tap.

The angle of that strike might be particularly deceptive. I think there was an overhead angle of this where you see the Newton's arm still swing at full speed before it lands on Mo's chin. But your point stands -- your head doesn't have to get absolutely smashed for the switch to turn off.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
Why do fighters paw at one another during stand-up? Is it to establish reach? Or to see if an opponent is going to check your hand motion?

Fozzy The Bear
Dec 11, 1999

Nothing much, watching the game, drinking a bud

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Why do fighters paw at one another during stand-up? Is it to establish reach? Or to see if an opponent is going to check your hand motion?

They are trying to poke their opponent's eye.

I wish the ref would deduct a point every time a fighter extends their hand with their hand open.

henkman
Oct 8, 2008

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Why do fighters paw at one another during stand-up? Is it to establish reach? Or to see if an opponent is going to check your hand motion?

Yes, the problem is when they don't close their loving hands with the other comes in and then they swipe at his face

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Why do fighters paw at one another during stand-up? Is it to establish reach? Or to see if an opponent is going to check your hand motion?

There's a couple of reasons.

When one's jabbing at the other fighter and he's pawing at his hand it's to block his jab. Normally this is done to avoid you getting blinded by their jab or actually getting jabbed. It can be done as a check so you can come inside to clinch.

Other fighters will paw out to pull a hand down so they can crack someone with a straight, Machida is probably the best at this, but bones and Silva do it too.

Other times they'll paw at each other as a distraction for a low kick or a shot or something.

Sometimes it's merely to establish range.

It's also commonly taught in muay thai and kick boxing to paw out with your right hand if you're throwing a right kick to stop your opponent rushing in - or in general to stop someone rushing in that's how a lot of eye pokes happen.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
in wrestling its a range check and also kind of a soft jab in that you're not hitting them but still forcing them to move their head or do something to clear your hand before engaging. Or, if they overreact or get predictable it can set up your offense. OR you can be like my friend in HS and basically open palm punch people in the face so they get mad, do something dumb and get pinned.

DekeThornton
Sep 2, 2011

Be friends!
I posted this in the general martial arts thread in A/T, but I thought it might fit here as well.

A pretty cool old clip of an old Swedish Jiu Jitsu demonstration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exZNrP2dNnw

Edit: drat it, I thought I posted this in the grappling thread. Oh well, I guess it fits here as well.

DekeThornton fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 23, 2014

Budget Dracula
Jun 6, 2007

Who was in the match against Keiji Mutoh where in the middle of the match he goes back to the dressing room and returns as The Great Muta?

FreddyJackieTurner
May 15, 2008

Is there a thread with a Metamorris 3 discussion going on?

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

I don't know...where to put...this...err...

http://www.bjpenn.com/grappler-vomits-submits-after-opponent-farts-in-his-face/

So...is there nothing on the rulebooks about stuff like this?

henkman
Oct 8, 2008
Every grappling competition I've been to had at least one person puke

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

henkman posted:

Every grappling competition I've been to had at least one person puke

But from a fart to the face? Jesus.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Captain Log posted:

But from a fart to the face? Jesus.

It's gross but it happens. I've never had anyone fart in my face grappling, but you get dudes sweat dripping on you, bleeding on you and all manner of disgusting stuff.

It's part of the sport unfortunately. Grappling is rewarding in many ways but also rediculously punishing and gross.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

BlindSite posted:

It's gross but it happens. I've never had anyone fart in my face grappling, but you get dudes sweat dripping on you, bleeding on you and all manner of disgusting stuff.

It's part of the sport unfortunately. Grappling is rewarding in many ways but also rediculously punishing and gross.

Years ago when I did some MMA stuff I was shocked by how Chute Box-y the gym was, i.e. I got knocked clean out my first time sparring...by a sixteen year old...I was 25. But, all the MMA coaches and pros loving dreaded the BJJ classes. They all said, roughly, "Man, they say they are scared to come over here and train. gently caress that! You'll get stuff broken and damaged for life quickly in BJJ!"

And that's why I never put on a gi and went to any BJJ only classes.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

Captain Log posted:

Years ago when I did some MMA stuff I was shocked by how Chute Box-y the gym was, i.e. I got knocked clean out my first time sparring...by a sixteen year old...I was 25. But, all the MMA coaches and pros loving dreaded the BJJ classes. They all said, roughly, "Man, they say they are scared to come over here and train. gently caress that! You'll get stuff broken and damaged for life quickly in BJJ!"

And that's why I never put on a gi and went to any BJJ only classes.

That sounds like a really horrible gym giving really horrible advice.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Captain Log posted:

Years ago when I did some MMA stuff I was shocked by how Chute Box-y the gym was, i.e. I got knocked clean out my first time sparring...by a sixteen year old...I was 25. But, all the MMA coaches and pros loving dreaded the BJJ classes. They all said, roughly, "Man, they say they are scared to come over here and train. gently caress that! You'll get stuff broken and damaged for life quickly in BJJ!"

And that's why I never put on a gi and went to any BJJ only classes.

Nah it's not that dangerous, the most common ways people get injured in grappling is when two muppets roll or fall on to you. You'll never get hosed up badly unless you're training with someone who spazes out hard or goes to hard using techniques they don't know how to use. All part of finding the right school and instructors etc.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

Kekekela posted:

That sounds like a really horrible gym giving really horrible advice.

I really enjoyed the gym and out of respect I'll leave their name out of it. They pushed you extremely hard and I was in the best shape I've been in since I fenced competitively in highschool and college. The thing I took issue with that eventually made me stop going was the jump from, "Your a newbie" to "SPAR WITH AN INSANE PRO" was really too quick. They also sparred way too hard and I suspect a lot of their pros/high level amateurs have awful chins by now. It wasn't bad intentioned and the only person I ever saw "bro out" got quickly kicked out of the gym for the night. They just sparred way the gently caress too hard.

The BJJ people? I have no loving clue.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS

Captain Log posted:

I really enjoyed the gym and out of respect I'll leave their name out of it. They pushed you extremely hard and I was in the best shape I've been in since I fenced competitively in highschool and college. The thing I took issue with that eventually made me stop going was the jump from, "Your a newbie" to "SPAR WITH AN INSANE PRO" was really too quick. They also sparred way too hard and I suspect a lot of their pros/high level amateurs have awful chins by now. It wasn't bad intentioned and the only person I ever saw "bro out" got quickly kicked out of the gym for the night. They just sparred way the gently caress too hard.

The BJJ people? I have no loving clue.


Kekekela posted:

That sounds like a really horrible gym giving really horrible advice.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

Fair enough. If I knew what I did now back in 07/08ish I would have known better. The fact that nobody was a dick makes me slam a pair of rose colored glasses onto my face real hard.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Captain Log posted:

I really enjoyed the gym and out of respect I'll leave their name out of it. They pushed you extremely hard and I was in the best shape I've been in since I fenced competitively in highschool and college. The thing I took issue with that eventually made me stop going was the jump from, "Your a newbie" to "SPAR WITH AN INSANE PRO" was really too quick. They also sparred way too hard and I suspect a lot of their pros/high level amateurs have awful chins by now. It wasn't bad intentioned and the only person I ever saw "bro out" got quickly kicked out of the gym for the night. They just sparred way the gently caress too hard.

The BJJ people? I have no loving clue.

Sounds like a bad gym to me? If you're sparring so hard you get knocked the gently caress out your first go in the ring ever, the gym has poor supervision or bad training methodology, or both.

I mean poo poo man, you got some minor brain damage as a novice due to them being bad and you're going to value their opinion on BJJ?

McNerd
Aug 28, 2007

1st AD posted:

Sounds like a bad gym to me? If you're sparring so hard you get knocked the gently caress out your first go in the ring ever, the gym has poor supervision or bad training methodology, or both.

I mean poo poo man, you got some minor brain damage as a novice due to them being bad and you're going to value their opinion on BJJ?

All of this and also, I would really not want to train BJJ with this crowd in particular. A group that'll knock you out cold in your first sparring session sounds like a group that would shred your knee with a lovely heel hook from YouTube that you never even had a chance to tap to. Yeah that will cause severe and likely permanent damage but the solution is better training partners.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.
I've trained in boxing gyms all over my state and I never seen a first timer spar.

Even if you claim to have amateur fights or sparred at the gym you just came from they'd wait a while to check you out.

I came to one with years of training behind me, a decent amount of sparring but no bouts and I just skipped and did bagwork for 3 months before they were willing to do mitt work with me. This was a well known trainer who's gym had produced some household names in Australia over the last 30 years.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

Pocket Billiards posted:

I've trained in boxing gyms all over my state and I never seen a first timer spar.

Even if you claim to have amateur fights or sparred at the gym you just came from they'd wait a while to check you out.

I came to one with years of training behind me, a decent amount of sparring but no bouts and I just skipped and did bagwork for 3 months before they were willing to do mitt work with me. This was a well known trainer who's gym had produced some household names in Australia over the last 30 years.

Everyone is more than correct. But I'd been there a few months, it wasn't my first day, before I sparred with someone who was about the same skill level. But he was young, went to hard, and landed a kick right on my jaw where the headgear ended. It wasn't my first day and with the exception of nearly dying from exhaustion thing it was fine until the last ten seconds of the three minutes.

But where the lovely part comes in was how the amateurs about to go pro fought. They always seemed to be knocking people out. The pros and the lower level guys normally had restraint. One of the guys who ran the gym left to start his own because the chute box training pissed him off. If I ever move back, I'd go to his gym. (No delusions here, I'm just healthier when I have an exercise I really enjoy.)

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
they can be nice well meaning guys with dumb training techniques. They're just doing what they think will get the best results without realizing it wont.

I only have limited striking experience but I can see how bjj might be worse day to day than striking. I came out of boxing practices feeling pretty good physically, tired but endorphin high and relatively pain free. I would imagine sparring too hard would have been way different but usually boxing training was just working out really hard and then being embarrassed in the ring trying to learn the basics. Bjj sometimes I feel like I got hit by a car the next day, even mentally I'm kind of foggy and sore in like a deep systemic way.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Watching some random re-run on FX, I caught the Sonnen vs. Stann fight from UFC 136. The referee stands the fighters up early in the second round, before Sonnen gets Stann with an arm triangle. Can someone who knows the fight explain why the ref decided he would get them up? It's not like they weren't both working pretty hard, and it seems like it would be a disadvantage to someone whose game is mostly on the ground to get stood up while he's working for position.

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008



stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

Memento posted:

Watching some random re-run on FX, I caught the Sonnen vs. Stann fight from UFC 136. The referee stands the fighters up early in the second round, before Sonnen gets Stann with an arm triangle. Can someone who knows the fight explain why the ref decided he would get them up? It's not like they weren't both working pretty hard, and it seems like it would be a disadvantage to someone whose game is mostly on the ground to get stood up while he's working for position.

sorry man i don't have access to the fight but i feel comfortable telling you that if it looks like there's absolutely no reason for the ref to be standing the fighters up there is absolutely no reason for the ref to be standing the fighters up. see also: kim winslow.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Memento posted:

Watching some random re-run on FX, I caught the Sonnen vs. Stann fight from UFC 136. The referee stands the fighters up early in the second round, before Sonnen gets Stann with an arm triangle. Can someone who knows the fight explain why the ref decided he would get them up? It's not like they weren't both working pretty hard, and it seems like it would be a disadvantage to someone whose game is mostly on the ground to get stood up while he's working for position.

The fight took place in Texas, so they probably assigned a really lovely ref.

Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010

Memento posted:

Watching some random re-run on FX, I caught the Sonnen vs. Stann fight from UFC 136. The referee stands the fighters up early in the second round, before Sonnen gets Stann with an arm triangle. Can someone who knows the fight explain why the ref decided he would get them up? It's not like they weren't both working pretty hard, and it seems like it would be a disadvantage to someone whose game is mostly on the ground to get stood up while he's working for position.

In the second Sonnen got the takedown early and quickly passed to mount, at which point he started working on an arm triangle. He was striking from the top a little bit and it appeared that any time he wanted to posture up Stann had nothing to stop him, but mostly Chael smothered Stann with his chest to see if he could open up a good opportunity to go for the submission. After a little bit of that Stann started to escape and they struggled for a minute, and Stann wound up regaining guard. I think Sonnen was going to take about two seconds to catch his breath before he started trying to pass again, but the ref was already telling them to separate pretty much instantly.

My guess would be that the ref didn't understand what Chael was doing to set up the arm triangle and thought he was just relaxing in mount and stalling, so as soon as Stann got back to guard he called for the standup. Refs make bad standup calls all the time, and this one was far from the worst. I mean, Kim Winslow stood up Bobby Green and Jacob Volkmann, when Green was postured up in a loose half-guard and elbowing the poo poo out of Volkmann's face. He very likely would have finished if she'd done her job correctly. Guys sometimes get stood up from full mount, even.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
Cool, thanks for the analysis. I've been doing bjj for about three months now so I'm a complete amateur when it comes to this stuff. The end of the fight really came out of nowhere for me; I don't think I've ever seen an arm triangle before.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS
They're loving everywhere if you know what to look for.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
My favorite arm triangles are the one where a dude has back mount and, while the guy on bottom is putting his arm up to defend against punches, slickly transitions to mount and grabs an arm triangle while that arm is still up. Like in Barao/Mcdonald.

MacDeuce
Oct 23, 2010
My favorite arm triangle was when Matt Riddle caught some clown with it standing, bitch-tossed him with the hold in place and choked him out on the ground.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
I feel like I've seen someone finish an arm triangle from back mount before, but I can't remember for the life of me where. Maybe on a Hero's show?

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

I feel like I've seen someone finish an arm triangle from back mount before, but I can't remember for the life of me where. Maybe on a Hero's show?

In terms of wacky arm triangles, I can only think of Struve's arm-in RNC/trachea choke on the Wolfslair grappling coach, Coleman's vaunted far side arm triangle, and Rick Story/Jeremy Horn choking out Brian Foster/Liddell from guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onJjK6wN7hE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzirWGSEx4M

canoshiz
Nov 6, 2005

THANK GOD FOR THE SMOKE MACHINE!
I think some TUF Brazil weiner caught a far side arm triangle on a Brazil card somewhat recently too.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Triticum Guzzler posted:

In terms of wacky arm triangles, I can only think of Struve's arm-in RNC/trachea choke on the Wolfslair grappling coach, Coleman's vaunted far side arm triangle, and Rick Story/Jeremy Horn choking out Brian Foster/Liddell from guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onJjK6wN7hE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzirWGSEx4M

I think it's the Struve one I'm remembering. All that C-League MMA starts to bleed together after a while.

Hey, anyone remember Toby Imada's sweet reverse triangle?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

henkman
Oct 8, 2008
James Thompson's arm triangle on The World's Strongest Man

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply