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SilverWingedSeraph posted:Not so. Word of Sanderson also states that the whole reason Vasher is on Roshar to begin with is because something he needs is much easier to get, there. There is a finite quantity of breath, it's hard to obtain, and actually taking someone's breath is taking part of their soul and sort of morally grey at best. And he needs that stuff to live. It's not hard to see why Vasher would want to get away from that, and he can by using Stormlight to stay alive instead of using up breaths. Presumably the Stormlight doesn't as 'breaths' for him to use with Awakening or whatever, but it seems any form of Investiture is enough to keep one of the Returned alive. do we know for a fact that (Warbreaker spoilers)Returned consumed breaths when not in their "returned" god-like forms? I thought our Vasher POV from Warbreaker seemed to indicate that as long as he didn't "access" it or whatever then it wasn't a problem. That Sanderson quote makes me wonder if theres some kind of investiture conversion process though (Nicrosil Metalminds simply store "investiture" after all). I don't doubt that a Returned could subsist on stormlight rather than breaths which would make living 'easy' on Roshar vs. Nalthis. However it'd be interesting to see if Awakeners could absorb stormlight via a different means than surgebinders (so that it's not leaking from them which notably Breaths do not) edit: it's sorta like whether or not Mistborn can use metals from *any* shard world (or planet in general) or whether only metals from Scadrial work for allomancy/feruchemy/hemalurgy. Personally I think they would, since my guess is there's some innate investiture in "creation" (in the abstract cosmic general sense) and the heavily implied use of Emotional Allomancy by Hoid in Shallan's flashback from WoR suggests this to be true. Though certainly if *anyone* had a stash of metal from another planet it'd be hoid. edit2: I don't know if people knew about this, but Sanderson posted a deleted Prologue to Emperor's Soul: https://www.goodreads.com/author_bl...log_post_digest treeboy fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 14:32
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treeboy posted:do we know for a fact that (Warbreaker spoilers)Returned consumed breaths when not in their "returned" god-like forms? I thought our Vasher POV from Warbreaker seemed to indicate that as long as he didn't "access" it or whatever then it wasn't a problem. Vasher states it outright near the end of Warbreaker. I think you're misreading his statement near the beginning of the book where he could "have access up to the 5th heightening at any time, but it would come with costs he wasn't willing to pay". The costs he's not willing to pay include not being able to invest his returned-breath, and being really bloody obvious that he's a returned and thus not able to move about quietly like he would prefer, and furthermore, the priests would likely recognize him as Warbreaker.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:03
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Iunnrais posted:Vasher states it outright near the end of Warbreaker. I think you're misreading his statement near the beginning of the book where he could "have access up to the 5th heightening at any time, but it would come with costs he wasn't willing to pay". The costs he's not willing to pay include not being able to invest his returned-breath, and being really bloody obvious that he's a returned and thus not able to move about quietly like he would prefer, and furthermore, the priests would likely recognize him as Warbreaker. yeah i just must've completely forgotten that bit at the end or missed it when I read warbreaker. I assumed exactly what you described. treeboy fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 15:16
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treeboy posted:edit: it's sorta like whether or not Mistborn can use metals from *any* shard world (or planet in general) or whether only metals from Scadrial work for allomancy/feruchemy/hemalurgy. Personally I think they would, since my guess is there's some innate investiture in "creation" (in the abstract cosmic general sense) and the heavily implied use of Emotional Allomancy by Hoid in Shallan's flashback from WoR suggests this to be true. Though certainly if *anyone* had a stash of metal from another planet it'd be hoid. For allomancy, yeah (recently got confirmed that you can burn soulcast metals). Probably true for feruchemy as well. They're based on the 'molecular structure' of the metals, so that sorta makes sense. The only one I'm not sure on is hemalurgy, since it's been confirmed that anyone from any shardworld can do it to steal any power no matter where they are, but Brandon rafoed the 'do you have to use Scandrian metals' followup. I suspect you do, since otherwise a guy from Elantris on Roshar spiking an Awakener would have no Ruin-investiture at all involved in the process, and that doesn't really make sense for Ruin's magic system.
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Apr 1, 2014 15:22
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Tunicate posted:For allomancy, yeah (recently got confirmed that you can burn soulcast metals). Probably true for feruchemy as well. They're based on the 'molecular structure' of the metals, so that sorta makes sense. I wonder if its less the origin and more the location. i.e. would Rosharran Iron work as a spike on Scadrial (under Ruins sphere of influence) edit: blughhh, me read well. nevermind. "no matter where they are"
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Apr 1, 2014 16:15
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Just out: Deleted Interlude from Words of Radiance It offers some amazing insight into a minor (but important) character. It contains significant spoilers for an early Shallan scene in Words of Radiance, so only read if you've at least finished Part 1!
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Apr 1, 2014 17:07
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I just finished WoR and I was wondering if you guys could clear something up. The guy named Blunt who was travelling with Shallan was one of the worldhoppers, right? If so, I know that Sanderson said that he was from a future book series. Does anybody know if he clarified that Blunt was from something he had already written like Dragonsteel or if he just knew he wanted to use Blunt in a future book?
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Apr 1, 2014 17:20
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johnfw50 posted:I just finished WoR and I was wondering if you guys could clear something up. The guy named Blunt who was travelling with Shallan was one of the worldhoppers, right? If so, I know that Sanderson said that he was from a future book series. Does anybody know if he clarified that Blunt was from something he had already written like Dragonsteel or if he just knew he wanted to use Blunt in a future book? He's Baon from White Sand
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Apr 1, 2014 17:34
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ShadowGlass posted:Just out: I love the idea that shallan caused a stick to have a major identity crisis and expect that interlude to appear in any future editions, in the last block of interludes.
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Apr 1, 2014 17:59
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Tunicate posted:He's Baon from White Sand Where can I read this book?
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Apr 1, 2014 18:10
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-Fish- posted:Where can I read this book? Send an email to brandon sanderson via the contact page on his website, mention that you liked his books and would love to read White Sand, and 2d12 months later it should arrive in your email.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:21
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ShadowGlass posted:Just out: I have to say I enjoyed that a lot more than the TWOW preview chapter GRRM put out a few days ago.
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Apr 1, 2014 19:46
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Tunicate posted:Send an email to brandon sanderson via the contact page on his website, mention that you liked his books and would love to read White Sand, and 2d12 months later it should arrive in your email. He sent me the books 3 days later. Awesome guy.
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Apr 1, 2014 20:05
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Benson Cunningham posted:He sent me the books 3 days later. Awesome guy. I'm still waiting. I think i sent my first mail regarding White Sands to Sanderson a year and a half ago. Then I sent a second one a year after the first. I'd love to read his unreleased books, but I'm beginning to doubt I ever will. Oh, and I'm about 20% into WoR right now and...to me it's kind of boring. Loved the first one, but this one seems to just be dragging on and on about nothing? Doesn't help that I don't like Shallan and Pattern (Spoiler I guess?) I hope it gets better, I'm kind of losing patience.
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Apr 1, 2014 20:27
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It gets much better.
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Apr 1, 2014 21:55
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The Puppy Bowl posted:It gets much better. It does, but I didn't enjoy it anywhere near as much as WoK for the same reason I suspect you won't; I just don't like Shallan as a character and suspect I never will, though I do like Pattern much more than Syl. It's just hard to like a character based upon Sanderson humour. It doesn't matter that there might or might not be plot reasons or lampshades about why Shallan isn't funny or that people pretend to find her funny or whatever because the end result is the same, that she's horribly unfunny and half her dialogue is cringeworthy "jokes". This is such a widely held view (I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of readers actively disliked Shallan after reading WoK) I'm actually shocked that he took the chance on making a Shallan focused book so soon. Even though this book explains a lot about Shallan, I don't think it really changes much about whether or not people actually like her. In fact, practically every review I read said something like "how you view Shallan will change, but you still won't like her". At least the Shallan book is out of the way I guess.
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Apr 1, 2014 23:57
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I've not really bothered to read any reviews of the book, but most of the people I've spoken with or just reading posts about it on the internet about it, found Shallan to be really good in this book and liked her, so I don't know. I know I did.
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Apr 2, 2014 00:03
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SerSpook posted:I've not really bothered to read any reviews of the book, but most of the people I've spoken with or just reading posts about it on the internet about it, found Shallan to be really good in this book and liked her, so I don't know. I know I did. Agreed. This book made her way more interesting. She also made a LOT few jokes in book 2, so I don't know why Shakugan is saying her dialogue is half that.
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Apr 2, 2014 00:22
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quote:Q: Do we get to see any good banter between Wit and Shallan? Okay, seems that Shallan actually isn't considered to be really that funny by Sanderson. At least she'll improve in later books, it seems.
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Apr 2, 2014 00:43
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While a part of it might be deliberate, I haven't seen Sanderson pull off any funny or witty banter convincingly so far.
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Apr 2, 2014 04:42
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Shakugan posted:It does, but I didn't enjoy it anywhere near as much as WoK for the same reason I suspect you won't; I just don't like Shallan as a character and suspect I never will, though I do like Pattern much more than Syl. It's just hard to like a character based upon Sanderson humour. It doesn't matter that there might or might not be plot reasons or lampshades about why Shallan isn't funny or that people pretend to find her funny or whatever because the end result is the same, that she's horribly unfunny and half her dialogue is cringeworthy "jokes". This is such a widely held view (I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of readers actively disliked Shallan after reading WoK) I'm actually shocked that he took the chance on making a Shallan focused book so soon. Even though this book explains a lot about Shallan, I don't think it really changes much about whether or not people actually like her. In fact, practically every review I read said something like "how you view Shallan will change, but you still won't like her". Guess I'll have to disagree. Shallan being out and about doing her own thing made her a much more compelling character to read and strengthened the book a lot over TWOK. I would skip over a lot of her chapters in the first book in re-reads, but here I loved her Metal Gear Shallan chapters. Also her flashbacks are magnitudes better than Kalladin's.
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Apr 2, 2014 06:21
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Tunicate posted:Okay, seems that Shallan actually isn't considered to be really that funny by Sanderson. At least she'll improve in later books, it seems. The problem is that, from what you are saying, Sanderson was trying to write an intentionally unfunny character, but nobody could tell it apart from his actual attempts at humor.
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Apr 2, 2014 06:31
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To be fair, Wit sounded exactly how 'medieval insulters' sound at ren fairs and poo poo. The issue is that Sanderson apparently believes this is the height of wit (Wit?)
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Apr 2, 2014 07:03
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nucleicmaxid posted:To be fair, Wit sounded exactly how 'medieval insulters' sound at ren fairs and poo poo. i'm sorry but do we have quotes to that effect? Like "I'm Brandon Sanderson and this is side splittingly hilarious!" I always assumed he was going for exactly what you said (medieval/renaissance faires) and not some standup routine. He's not a comedy writer so I doubt it's his forte, but I have yet to encounter anything to indicate he thinks this stuff is just comedy gold. I think we shouldn't look much further than the reactions of those around them in the story to see the author's intention. A (supposedly) funny character is usually funny to those in universe as well. This is not most of Sandersons characters. Wit especially is portrayed as an insufferable git they mostly put up with because they can't kill him. Lightsong comes across as legitimately entertaining/funny to readers but only because its so vexing to those around him. Shallan is generally lowbrow and unfunny, but refreshing and odd to sailors and her abused brothers (Kaladin and Shallan are not entertained). Really the only claim to Shallan's humor is from shallan's POV (*she* thinks she's hilarious) Now if Sanderson thinks it's all great then whatever, it's not a big enough part of the story for me to ruin the other 95% but this is like people complaining about how Patrick Rothfuss obviously hates poetry because Kvothe hates poetry.
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Apr 2, 2014 13:38
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Wit literally stands there in both books and goes "I'm only going for the low-hanging fruit". None of that is meant to be high humor. What's actually kind of witty (though not in the "ha ha" way) is Wit being insufferable when he's not on the job, specifically the bits at the end of either book.
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Apr 2, 2014 13:51
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I liked the bits where Pattern started experimenting with sarcasm.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:23
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treeboy posted:i'm sorry but do we have quotes to that effect? No, we don't. The problem is goons and it's annoying as poo poo that every 2 pages we have to have this discussion.
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Apr 2, 2014 23:33
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Lightsong is hilarious, Shallan tries too hard, and Wit is a dick and revels in it.
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Apr 3, 2014 00:44
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Lobsterpillar posted:I liked the bits where Pattern started experimenting with sarcasm. I liked anything to do with Pattern, I was listening to the Audiobook and Reading's interpretation was a lot of fun.
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Apr 3, 2014 05:26
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Somebody needs to do an edit of Stormlight Archives where every terrible joke Wit tells is replaced with Rodney Dangerfield.
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Apr 3, 2014 05:38
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treeboy posted:Personally, given Lopen's POV at the end, I'm of the opinion that stormlight absorption can be learned. Seems like it would make more sense that that's an attribute of the whole squire/whatever thing and stems from his relationship with/loyalty to Kaladin.
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Apr 3, 2014 15:04
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Habibi posted:Seems like it would make more sense that that's an attribute of the whole squire/whatever thing and stems from his relationship with/loyalty to Kaladin. On the other hand, he only starts absorbing Stormlight when he's around Elhokar.
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Apr 3, 2014 15:25
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Habibi posted:Seems like it would make more sense that that's an attribute of the whole squire/whatever thing and stems from his relationship with/loyalty to Kaladin. I think it might be broader than that, though its hard to say since you could draw this relationship between a lot of characters Dalinar for instance, was a budding radiant apparently, so that's probably why he was absorbing small amounts of stormlight during the battle. Though it mentions "some of the men" during the battle were glowing, I couldn't tell if it was referring only to bridgemen or other soldiers as well. Perhaps their loyalty to dalinar allowed it? I think this might go back to Jasnah's comment about the Radiants experiencing a "massive influx" just before desolations, and stormlight absorption probably got a lot more common even without a spren bond
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Apr 3, 2014 15:40
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api call girl posted:On the other hand, he only starts absorbing Stormlight when he's around Elhokar. Maybe squires need loyalty to two knights? or orders?
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Apr 3, 2014 16:00
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api call girl posted:On the other hand, he only starts absorbing Stormlight when he's around Elhokar. I think it's more based on what Kaladin does around the same time.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:04
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Tunicate posted:I think it's more based on what Kaladin does around the same time. If taken chronologically Kaladin had already sworn the day before, so it's still not a perfect line-up. Proximity might still be the better association there.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:54
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Yes, re squires I was rereading WoK and one of Dalinars visions mentions the warriors fighting with the KR in the purelake were also glowing with stormlight. Undoubtedly if you are close to a KR then you benefit from Stormlight absorption without having access to the surges like a full KR. I doubt Lopen is a KR Regarding the recreance again in Dalinars vision, at Feverstone keep, you see the orders of Windrunners and Stonewards abandoning their shardblades. Dalinar mentions that he sees over 200 knights doing this, and yet in the whole of Roshar he would count at their being no more than 100 shardblades in existence. No mention is made of the foes they are fighting, however it does not seem to be during a desolation. At the end of this vision the speaker says something to the effect of "they were the first and the last to give up their blades". In another one of his visions he learns that a Surgebinder started a war against Nohadon previous to a desolation, you also learn that not all Spren are as choosy as to who they pick as the honourspren, meaning some less than savoury characters could be chosen. All of this leads me to believe that the recreance happened due to a civil war between the KR. Only the Stonewards and Windrunners broke the Nahel bond because they realised that they were created not to fight against each other but against Odium. Odium is what gives men the Thrill in battle when killing and these 2 orders would be the most opposed to doing anything dishonorable. So they broke the bond to stop the war and gave up their shards. Maybe this mass killing (of the honour spren) caused the Spren of the other orders to leave the rest of the KR like when Syl left Kaladin which is why so many of the sentient spren remember the event and still hold a grudge?
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Apr 3, 2014 17:03
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Did we ever get a specific timeline regarding when the 3 big events happened relative to each other Honor being killed, 9 of the Heralds giving up their duty, and the Knights Radiant disbanding. I ask because any of them could have easily caused the others. The Radiants may have given up their blades in response to finding out that either Honor had died, or that the Heralds had surrendered from their duty. I'm leaning towards the Heralds being the immediate cause. The Knights Radiant were created in the image of the Heralds, and it appears that the individual Heralds were treated as leaders of the orders that they inspired. Finding out that your semi-Devine bosses have quit their duty, would quite reasonably cause many Radiants to not want to associate with them anymore. Especially when you still have people like Nalan still claiming leadership of the Skybreakers despite abandoning his Oathpact duties. That the Stonewards (followers of the one herald still doing his job) and the Windrunners (the most honorable of orders, chosen by the most morally discerning spren) were first orders to give up their blades in Dalniar's flashback also lends credence in my mind that the recreance was a reaction against the betrayal of the Heralds.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:23
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keiran_helcyan posted:Did we ever get a specific timeline regarding when the 3 big events happened relative to each other Honor being killed, 9 of the Heralds giving up their duty, and the Knights Radiant disbanding. I ask because any of them could have easily caused the others. The Radiants may have given up their blades in response to finding out that either Honor had died, or that the Heralds had surrendered from their duty. As an explanation for something momentous in an epic fantasy series, that seems a bit... simple. The true reason will be found out in the middle of an Sanderlanche and it will be a shocking twist that challenges your preconceived assumptions. Simply because that's what Sanderson does, for everything.
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Apr 3, 2014 18:59
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The thing we don't know about the Recreance is Was the last one the only one? Taln, the loopy Herald (or whatever he is) had a script along the lines of "the Desolation is coming. I know you won't know what I'm talking about [because they wipe everything out so completely that you probably don't even know how to bake bread anymore], but I'm here to help you found the orders of Knights Radiant and survive the war." It sounds straightforward, but the implication is that there have been many Desolations that nuked the world, and the Knights Radiant had to be refounded multiple times. The implication there is that the KR got disbanded multiple times also. There had to be some kind of Recreance after every Desolation. Was the Recreance that everyone shits their pants over just the last one? Or was it somehow uniquely bad? Or is it just that the previous ones faded from memory? We still also don't really know what the Heralds are, or the Honorblades, or the Oathpact, or any of these big picture cosmology things that underpin the fantasy elements on Roshar.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:26
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