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I picked up Origins recently, and after everything I'd heard I was dreading the Bane boss fights. Just got to the first one and it's every bit as boring, frustrating and pointlessly overlong as I was led to expect. I haven't managed to beat it yet, and to be honest it's putting me off going back to finish the rest of the game because it's so utterly un-fun. If there's one innovation GTA5 has given the world, it's skipping lovely story missions by pretending that eh, let's just say you did it and move on. Hopefully Arkham Knight will take it on board.
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Apr 3, 2014 22:17
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 16:46 |
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why play games when games can play themselves
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Apr 3, 2014 22:18
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I'm not meant to get the Batcomputer helping on Mr Freeze on NG+ am I?
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Apr 3, 2014 22:24
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm not meant to get the Batcomputer helping on Mr Freeze on NG+ am I? It worked once for me in normal game, and never again. Took a hell of a time to get the transmission, and it may be I have beat it too quick.
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Apr 3, 2014 22:34
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Excels posted:why play games when games can play themselves Which probably makes me one of the "cash-rich, time-poor" types the microtransactions crowd will be hoping to chisel money from. Can't progress? Pay 99p to skip past Bane!
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Apr 3, 2014 22:35
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Payndz posted:I picked up Origins recently, and after everything I'd heard I was dreading the Bane boss fights. Just got to the first one and it's every bit as boring, frustrating and pointlessly overlong as I was led to expect. I haven't managed to beat it yet, and to be honest it's putting me off going back to finish the rest of the game because it's so utterly un-fun. L.A. Noire did it and it made sense since action was no the core of the game. GTA did a version that was literally "I loving suck at everything" button. If Arkham does that it should just be a big rear end button that says "I am not the night." and mocks you. That being said, I do wish it was a feature in more games where it makes sense.
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Apr 3, 2014 22:36
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I'd rather the games were well-designed enough that the impulse for a pay-to-win/skip button wasn't present.
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Apr 3, 2014 22:40
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Payndz posted:I picked up Origins recently, and after everything I'd heard I was dreading the Bane boss fights. Just got to the first one and it's every bit as boring, frustrating and pointlessly overlong as I was led to expect. I haven't managed to beat it yet, and to be honest it's putting me off going back to finish the rest of the game because it's so utterly un-fun. Payndz, with Bane the key is to wait till he is close while charging at you and THEN dodge aside. Do it too early and he'll just pivot and maintain enough momentum to knock you down anyway. Don't bother trying to fight the other guys if they're distracting you, just dodge over them and allow Bane himself to KO them for you. So long as you avoid getting boxed into a corner, it should become relatively straightforward for you to avoid taking any damage from him at all (other than the story specific moments where he grabs you and you have to break free).
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Apr 3, 2014 22:48
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In sandbox games like GTA (or RPGs like Mass Effect) it kinda makes sense to have some skipping abilities because the games are set up for a bunch of different playstyles. I'm not sure that applies to stuff like the Arkham games where the mechanics themselves are meant to be a big draw.Trickjaw posted:It worked once for me in normal game, and never again. Took a hell of a time to get the transmission, and it may be I have beat it too quick. It worked for me the first time I played AC (on release), but when I went through this time on Normal it didn't work (I assume because I had an upgrade available; I got the Oracle transmission), and on NG+ Batman never even called Oracle.
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Apr 3, 2014 23:51
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Doctor Spaceman posted:In sandbox games like GTA (or RPGs like Mass Effect) it kinda makes sense to have some skipping abilities because the games are set up for a bunch of different playstyles. I'm not sure that applies to stuff like the Arkham games where the mechanics themselves are meant to be a big draw. Huh its odd. IIRC first time I got all the schematics eventually when I was in 2/3 takedowns into the fight, but never seen anything else beyond Barb telling me not to take him on in a straight fight.
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Apr 4, 2014 00:06
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What Schematics are you talking about? You can unlock poo poo in the Freeze fight in AC?
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Apr 4, 2014 00:13
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bunnyofdoom posted:What Schematics are you talking about? You can unlock poo poo in the Freeze fight in AC? You get schematics on Victor's suit, and it ticks along to show you the actual moves to do, and eliminates them when you have done a grate takedown, etc. This is just from memory, I may be wrong. I still get the tracking of the seeker drones and the tell when I am in Freezes's cone.
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Apr 4, 2014 00:17
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Payndz posted:I picked up Origins recently, and after everything I'd heard I was dreading the Bane boss fights. Just got to the first one and it's every bit as boring, frustrating and pointlessly overlong as I was led to expect. I haven't managed to beat it yet, and to be honest it's putting me off going back to finish the rest of the game because it's so utterly un-fun. If you don't die, the fight goes for probably 6-8 minutes. It's a fairly fast paced fight too, and I completely disagree on 'boring' (I'm hoping that was just frustration talking? but different tastes too I guess). I was tempted to just post 'Get better at the game.' because I think a lot of gamers can be very sissy about anything remotely challenging in games these days, but instead thought I'd offer my tips. My guide to the Bane fight at the Royal Hotel: Start of fight: - Wait for him to punch and jump over the top of him as soon as he goes to swing the punch. - After jumping over him, turn and immediately do a triple stun. - Beatdown. When he is jacked up on venom: - Avoid his charges by jumping sideways at the very last second (or jump over enemies if you're in the outdoor phase of the fight, which gives you some invincible frames). - After last charge (he will stand still for a few seconds rather than immediately charging again) wait for him to leap towards you, and jump away from him (he will blast the ground you are at) - Immediately charge towards him and triple stun (enemies shouldn't be much a worry for this triple stun as they should be knocked down from bane's leap attack). - Use beatdown on Bane. - Use takedown attack (Y + B on xbox controller) to remove bane's venom effects. - Now treat Bane as a normal enemy. kick him, jump away, kick him, jump away etc. until you can use a takedown. Keep doing this until Bane uses the venom again, and repeat the steps above to remove the venom. Repeat until defeated. It goes without saying you should be aware where the enemies are at all times and be ready to counter them while completing the steps above. This tactic has worked almost perfect for me on hard difficulty (Hard NG+). The only problem you should really have is mistiming the jumping away from Bane when he is charging towards you (try to avoid getting stuck in a corner, you can take multiple hits from Bane's charges).
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Apr 4, 2014 03:28
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Massively couterproductive to open a post with insults and expect folks to respond well. If you write that you were tempted to post "Get better at the game", then you're still conveying the exact same  , with the exact same effects. Then you implied Payndz is a sissy. Really bad way to frame your post, whatever your difference of opinion.It doesn't help that the rest of your post misses his point. It's not that Bane is hard- it's that the fights are poorly designed, frustrating and generally a chore to play through. And they are all of those things, speaking as someone who has 100%ed the story material in all modes. Hits from Bane take a long time to play out as batman is thrown against walls, etc. That's a bad idea, and it's compounded when getting hit also doesn't feel fair-something that's often the case, especially in the venom-heavy latter parts of the fight. The basic cycle of cutting off Bane's Venom repeats itself much too many times, with no meaningful variation. The turning radius on the charge is inexplicable within game mechanics, and it's unavoidable from a number of locations, even before the game's priority detection problems come into play. Importantly, there is no indication to the player that they are in these danger zones until it happens- and there continues to be no clear cue of where those zones are in later fights. This is especially a problem because the player is routinely drawn into those areas when they're trying to damage Bane. The combo hit from the charge attack is also pretty inexcusable. Players should never have to sit and watch their character repeat the same hit animation multiple times for such arbitrary reasons. It looks an awful lot like the corner problem was just never considered in development. The Bane fight demonstrates a problem that all devteams have had with boss fights in Arkham games- they don't sufficiently test system interaction between normal enemies and the boss character. Other enemeis interfere with the priority of boss patterns, which frequently has an unpredictable effect on how a player should respond in a given situation. Looking back, bossfights with mooks thrown in have always been the worst fights in the game, as enemies represent a cheap padding mechanic that substitutes for interesting variation- and produce occasionally unfair scenarios. On top of all this, the Bane bossfights are always preceded and followed by cutscenes where the PC is beaten, frequently effortlessly, and with no good reason. The result is that clearing them is profoundly unsatisfying. Bane doesn't do anything clever, interesting or character-developing: he just grabs you and punches you, and the plot moves on. It cuts against the approach to player agency that worked very well in AA, and pretty well in AC.
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Apr 4, 2014 04:07
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Discendo Vox posted:Massively couterproductive to open a post with insults and expect folks to respond well. If you write that you were tempted to post "Get better at the game", then you're still conveying the exact same It may come across as smug, and I didn't mean it to, but I sit by my words. I do think he needs to get better if he wants to progress in the game. That guide I wrote up was the result of me dying in that fight probably 20-30 times (I absolutely HATED it the first time). I got better. Now when I play it (I just did a 100% run through the game) I may die 1-2 times, but I know exactly what I did wrong to cause that death (usually got myself trapped in a corner, and hit multiple times by Bane's charge as a result). There’s a ton of glitches and bugs in Arkham Origins, but the Bane fight is one section I didn’t suffer any significant problems from them. Discendo Vox posted:It doesn't help that the rest of your post misses his point. It's not that Bane is hard- it's that the fights are poorly designed, frustrating and generally a chore to play through. And they are all of those things, speaking as someone who has 100%ed the story material in all modes. Payndz posted:I haven't managed to beat it yet, and to be honest it's putting me off going back to finish the rest of the game because it's so utterly un-fun. I gave the guy some tips I believe will help him ‘manage to beat it’. How does that miss the point?
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Apr 4, 2014 04:25
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The Bane boss fight didn't suck half as bad as the predator segment just before it. "Oh yeah, gently caress you, Batman. We put explosives on your gargoyles. AND there are loving mines everywhere." Origins is definitely harder than the other two games. The random bugs with the free flow system don't help. I feel like it's a genius gimmick to make Batman seem less experienced. It has to be. Right? I tried to silently take down a sniper next to the helicopter pad on the GCPD roof and I just couldn't. The game didn't give me the option to, so I ended up doing that stupid counter animation through the dude's back. Then when he spotted me, I tried to jump off the roof where he was standing, but there was an invisible wall 
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Apr 4, 2014 05:04
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Mogomra posted:Origins is definitely harder than the other two games. The random bugs with the free flow system don't help. I feel like it's a genius gimmick to make Batman seem less experienced. It has to be. Right? Before release they said something like they had changed the flow of combat to make Batman feel more raw and inexperienced (or something along those lines). Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they messed around with the code and accidentally broke parts of it, and that was the running line they went with to explain it when they couldn't work out how to fix it. Edit: Maybe I'm wrong on that actually. Only quote I could find said "According to the developers, Batman’s inexperience will only manifest within the narrative of the game.". Oh well. Keeku fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 05:13
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Whiffing attacks is not new to Origins, but it seems to occur a bit more frequently. Again, if you are playing on hard difficulty off the bat (no pun intended) in Origins and the enemies fly at you, that's just a combat modifier they slapped onto the story mode. It happens the same in challenge maps with it on. There is no grand ineptitude (well it could be argued) or conspiracy that WB Montreal hates you.
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Apr 4, 2014 06:53
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In hindsight I think Origins must have been rushed so they could release in 2013, leaving 2014 for Rocksteady's game. I think WB Montreal has talent, and given more time they probably would have had a much more polished game. I'm hoping they continue the series beyond Arkham Knight. They can only improve, right?
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Apr 4, 2014 07:10
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Keeku posted:In hindsight I think Origins must have been rushed so they could release in 2013, leaving 2014 for Rocksteady's game. I think WB Montreal has talent, and given more time they probably would have had a much more polished game. I'm hoping they continue the series beyond Arkham Knight. They can only improve, right? The best thing Rocksteady could do is similar games with different DC heroes. Arrow is a successful and good show, let's get a Green Arrow game up ins. And if they do stick with Batman-centric, then have it be a game where you do various parts of the story as Robin, Catwoman, The Joker or Harley, Batgirl, etc. I mean there really, truly is only so much you can do with Batarangs.
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Apr 4, 2014 07:15
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Keepin' hope alive for a kick-rear end Flash game!
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Apr 4, 2014 07:16
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The first Bane fight was great, it was my favorite boss in the game. When I got to the second one, I was sick of it and the janky combat in general and just wanted it to be over. It probably doesn't help that it was like 1 am though I think one thing Origins did really well was the atmosphere and general tone. I was completely sick of the Joker but his introduction was still extremely effective and almost terrifying. Most of the bosses are very simple, but they're still extremely well done because of this. I don't think Origins is the best in this regard, but it's still better than City
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Apr 4, 2014 07:19
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Phylodox posted:Keepin' hope alive for a kick-rear end Flash game! Aside from the character being kind of boring (as far as I can tell, never really read DC comics aside from Ambush Bug) that could actually work because you could have this whole intricate slow-mo combat system where you do all these sick combos and tricks like the fight itself is a Rube Goldberg device.
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Apr 4, 2014 07:22
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You should read some of Wally West's stuff. Dude is basically the iconic example of why The Flash is interesting.
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Apr 4, 2014 07:26
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precision posted:Aside from the character being kind of boring (as far as I can tell, never really read DC comics aside from Ambush Bug) that could actually work because you could have this whole intricate slow-mo combat system where you do all these sick combos and tricks like the fight itself is a Rube Goldberg device. So you've never seen the Justice League show, then? Flash was awesome in that. Hell, get Michael Rosenbaum to play him in the game! Yeah!
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Apr 4, 2014 07:26
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precision posted:Aside from the character being kind of boring (as far as I can tell, never really read DC comics aside from Ambush Bug) that could actually work because you could have this whole intricate slow-mo combat system where you do all these sick combos and tricks like the fight itself is a Rube Goldberg device. The Flash is OP as gently caress and super awesome.
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Apr 4, 2014 07:36
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Keeku posted:If you don't die, the fight goes for probably 6-8 minutes I'll give it another try when I get the chance, because boss-fights aside I've really enjoyed the game, but drat, this part is frustrating.
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Apr 4, 2014 07:53
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Payndz posted:To me, it's something like facing The End in MGS3, I get your point but isn't that one a bad example? I was under the impression that boss is supposed to take 20+ minutes. Anyway, in addition to Keekus tips; attacking Bane with your shock gloves on effectively counts as a free take down, regardless of your combo count. Though be aware that it will instantly deplete your charge.
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Apr 4, 2014 12:48
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Paused posted:Anyway, in addition to Keekus tips; attacking Bane with your shock gloves on effectively counts as a free take down, regardless of your combo count. Though be aware that it will instantly deplete your charge. Good catch. I didn't like using shock gloves so ignored them most the game in combat. Didn't even think to turn them on in the first Bane fight. Oops!
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Apr 4, 2014 12:52
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Jesus Christ, Origins Blackgate is a steaming load of dogshit.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:03
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Keeku posted:Good catch. I didn't like using shock gloves so ignored them most the game in combat. Didn't even think to turn them on in the first Bane fight. Oops! I figured the whole point of that Bane fight was to teach you to use the shock gloves. It's basic Zelda rules: the item you get in the dungeon is the one you use to beat the boss.
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Apr 4, 2014 13:07
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Paused posted:I get your point but isn't that one a bad example? I was under the impression that boss is supposed to take 20+ minutes.  You can snipe The End before the fight even begins and avoid the whole thing. Or wait on your save file an IRL two weeks and The End dies of old age. (I am not making that up.)
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Apr 4, 2014 13:20
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I figured the whole point of that Bane fight was to teach you to use the shock gloves. It's basic Zelda rules: the item you get in the dungeon is the one you use to beat the boss. That didn't click for me on my initial run. The shock gloves are acquired quite early in the hotel, and there's a lot of progress towards the end of the hotel. I had a go at using them against the basic thugs on the way to Bane, but found I enjoyed combat more the standard way without them (I'm getting reasonably good at the combat now after 3 games, as I'm sure most are). By time I reached Bane, the shock gloves were merely a tool to open doors and had virtually left my mind. Wish I had remembered because I found Bane extremely hard on my first run. Oh well, the method I use without the gloves to beat Bane works perfectly fine so doesn't matter in the end. Arkannoyed posted:Jesus Christ, Origins Blackgate is a steaming load of dogshit. Nice username and post combination. I do agree though. I just finished it, and can't help but feel it was a complete waste of potential. Keeku fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 14:09
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Paused posted:I get your point but isn't that one a bad example? I was under the impression that boss is supposed to take 20+ minutes. All you (can) do to beat Bane is button-mash. For several minutes.
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Apr 4, 2014 14:29
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On the topic of fighting Bane, running away when he does his charge is more effective than dodging. Or so I've found.
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Apr 4, 2014 17:23
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The Predator segments are really easy if you just keep doing inverse takedowns. Grab a guy and string him up. All his buddies will rush over so you immediately swing to another 'goyle and then quick-throw a batarang to cut him down. Move continuously. Then swoop back over to the same gargoyle you just cut the guy down from and repeat with one of his buddies all gathered up next to you. I made a neat little pile of unconscious goons in several instances.
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Apr 4, 2014 18:51
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Variety is more fun. Also just getting those right moments where you drop down on top of a thug, smash him out, batarang a nearby extinguisher and grappel back up. It takes them a few seconds to think it's just a fire extinguisher and then the smoke disappears to reveal your handiwork.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:00
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Sober posted:Variety is more fun. Also just getting those right moments where you drop down on top of a thug, smash him out, batarang a nearby extinguisher and grappel back up. It takes them a few seconds to think it's just a fire extinguisher and then the smoke disappears to reveal your handiwork. It's also terrible for points, but I love dropping down behind the last guy standing and following him for as long as I can until he spins around to see me standing directly behind him.
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Apr 4, 2014 19:18
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Crappy Jack posted:It's also terrible for points, but I love dropping down behind the last guy standing and following him for as long as I can until he spins around to see me standing directly behind him. I like to imagine this is what Batman does all the time because it's the only thing he finds amusing anymore.
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Apr 4, 2014 21:54
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 16:46 |
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precision posted:The best thing Rocksteady could do is similar games with different DC heroes. Arrow is a successful and good show, let's get a Green Arrow game up ins. And if they do stick with Batman-centric, then have it be a game where you do various parts of the story as Robin, Catwoman, The Joker or Harley, Batgirl, etc. I mean there really, truly is only so much you can do with Batarangs. They should do a Darkwing Duck game. Press LB and Darkwing says a randomly selected "I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the..." line.
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Apr 4, 2014 22:06
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