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Snowdens Secret posted:http://www.the-american-interest.com/articles/2014/04/12/ukraines-debt-and-putins-upper-hand/ referred to ukraine as the ukraine, obviously not a reputable source
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Apr 14, 2014 12:35
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More police stations stormed, local police did not resist and later pledged loyalty to local militia commanders. Representatives of the "Peoples republic of Donetsk" have officially asked Putin to do anything he can to help. Ukrainian interim President calls for UN peacekeepers to come stabilize the east of Ukraine. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/kiev-deadline-for-disarming-freeing-buildings-in-east-ukraine-passes/article17955977/ E: Ukraine has strangled fresh water delivery to Crimea from 50 cubikmeters per second to 16, 80% of Crimeas fresh water comes from mainland Ukraine. http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/200552.html Russia and US wave dicks in the Black Sea quote:A Russian fighter jet made multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea for more than 90 minutes Saturday amid escalating tensions in the region, a U.S. military official said Monday. E2:  reading on Ukraine-Russian military dispositions from the Royal United Services Institute, fresh of the printing presses for all your milsperg needs!https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/UKRANIANMILITARYDISPOSITIONS_RUSIBRIEFING.pdf Courthouse fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 15:38
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Russian prapaganda at its finest again: http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod...heroic-surgeon/
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Apr 14, 2014 19:12
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Caconym posted:Russian prapaganda at its finest again: Good stuff as always. I eagerly await how John Brennans weekend visit to Kiev will be handled. :3
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Apr 14, 2014 19:43
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It's actually kind of impressive to see how effective Russian state-issued propaganda combined with a near-monopoly on Rus-language media is. They've been putting out almost Baghdad-Bob levels of nonsense (mass shootings of protesters, US special forces on the ground, etc etc) but within hours Western reporters are getting it repeated to them by random civilians across the affected areas. (It's a little disappointing to see the same hokum Rus media sources quoted uncritically as fact on places like DailyKos but that's another matter.) There's the joke line about Putin asking "How many divisions has the hashtag" but information warfare really is shaping the conflict at this point.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:44
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Also russians are dumbasses who love totalitarianism.
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Apr 14, 2014 21:09
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Baloogan posted:Also russians are dumbasses who love totalitarianism. stupid slavs cant help the fact that they were born untermensch
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Apr 14, 2014 21:15
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:stupid slavs cant help the fact that they were born untermensch slav spotted
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Apr 14, 2014 21:30
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Baloogan posted:
FTFY
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Apr 14, 2014 22:45
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Snowdens Secret posted:(It's a little disappointing to see the same hokum Rus media sources quoted uncritically as fact on places like DailyKos but that's another matter.) DailyKos isn't Russian propaganda?
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Apr 14, 2014 22:52
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MrYenko posted:DailyKos isn't Russian propaganda? Ever since the Ukraine situation kicked off, Markos has been spending every waking hour trying to reanimate the corpses of Lenin and Stalin in hopes of the glorious return of Soviet Communism and Holodomor II: Ukranski Boogaloo.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:34
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Baloogan posted:Also russians are dumbasses who love totalitarianism. Nothing wrong with valuing security over liberty. Ben Franklin was wrong! In other news, gently caress you tank dad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJzL03IHGJ4
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Apr 15, 2014 01:50
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A lot of the videos and pictures of the so called "Self Defense" forces in the East, while made up of obviously surplus bought gear, is actually pretty uniform it seems. Almost all the videos I've seen have them wearing that digital camo pattern. It doesn't look like a super spontaneous event, with just a bunch of guys raiding surplus stores and buying whatever camo they can get, it looks like its organized much more than that. I guess a group order from some surplus store isn't that hard to come by, but has anyone spotted anything more than typical Militia weaponry? I'm talking actual support weapons, like PKMs, RPKs etc.?
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Apr 15, 2014 07:09
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scroogle nmaps posted:Nothing wrong with valuing security over liberty. Ben Franklin was wrong! Why are they mad at him? Other than the fact he was tearing up the roads.
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Apr 15, 2014 08:36
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swagger like us posted:A lot of the videos and pictures of the so called "Self Defense" forces in the East, while made up of obviously surplus bought gear, is actually pretty uniform it seems. Almost all the videos I've seen have them wearing that digital camo pattern. It doesn't look like a super spontaneous event, with just a bunch of guys raiding surplus stores and buying whatever camo they can get, it looks like its organized much more than that. Some reports describe militias being armed with "heavy anti-tank weapons", which I suspect is dumb journalist talk for RPGs(?). I'd kinda expect there to be a decent bit of squad level PKM/RPG type stuff around, since the local militias appear somewhat less than loyal and that would be the kind of stuff a national guard type force would be issued. I don't think they need that much armament anyway, the question here is whether Ukraine can diffuse this situation without bloodshed triggering a Russian intervention, which strikes me as more of a political question where they need to convince the civilians away from the streets. Also, if lessons are learned with any speed any infiltrating forces would presumably have been told to grab some gear that makes them look less Spetnaz-y and stay in the background. There are reports that the people occupying the police stations are not the same people who stormed them. But again, doesn't mean Russian boots on the ground. The well organized militas may just as well be unemployed ex-berkut and military veterans earning a bit extra on the side. More worrying is that the Russian military hospitals have been grouped into forward positions and interior ministry forces (responsible for pacification of occupied territory during wartime) have been put on high alert.
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Apr 15, 2014 11:42
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swagger like us posted:A lot of the videos and pictures of the so called "Self Defense" forces in the East, while made up of obviously surplus bought gear, is actually pretty uniform it seems. Almost all the videos I've seen have them wearing that digital camo pattern. It doesn't look like a super spontaneous event, with just a bunch of guys raiding surplus stores and buying whatever camo they can get, it looks like its organized much more than that. 
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Apr 15, 2014 12:59
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Jonad posted:Courtesy of D&D RPK, AK74SU and an RPG-22. That dude either pissed off his NCOIC or he's indeed the crazed militia type Russia is pinning it on
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Apr 15, 2014 15:39
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Researched speculation about troop concentrations etc to go with things heating up. https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/UKRANIANMILITARYDISPOSITIONS_RUSIBRIEFING.pdf
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Apr 15, 2014 16:14
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So the Russian economy, whose growth went down from 4.3% to 1.3% from 2011 to 2013, might go into a depression this year if the past three months are any indication. Particularly if Putin makes a move on Eastern Ukraine which will bring more sanctions.
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Apr 15, 2014 17:51
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Yeah, Eastern Ukraine is definitely a bonanza area to be able to send Russians dressed as them. I mean, accent wise, language etc. poses no barriers to it being obvious. These could have easily been Russians from Western Russia, Crimea etc. that make up a bulk of the Militia's, coupled with obviously some locals who are sympathetic/supporters. Of course I don't doubt actual comms with Russian Forces, intelligence support, and probably even leadership. Anyone have an estimated ORBAT in terms of numbers for these Militia's? Plenty of ORBATs exist for the Russian and Ukrainian sides, but how big are we talking about when we talk about Popular militia's?
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Apr 15, 2014 22:00
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Seems like NATO is opening a new airbase in Estonia, in Ämari. USA is going to send F-15s and a KC-135 there, plus other EU countries are sending F-16, Typhoons and Rafales. I kinda want to go and see them and dont mind seeing them from a distance either, its just that should I even bother, I dont want to run afoul with law.
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Apr 16, 2014 14:48
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Pretty sure people showing up to gawk at jets is a given.
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Apr 16, 2014 16:01
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Intel5 posted:Pretty sure people showing up to gawk at jets is a given. Yep, my brother said when he had to land a T-2C overnight at a small airport in Northern Mississippi when he went to take off the next morning half the town seemed to show up to watch him take off
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Apr 16, 2014 16:03
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I think the only thing they'll really care about is if you start snapping photos of sensitive poo poo like security and stuff. Otherwise gawk away
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Apr 16, 2014 17:00
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Good to hear, Ive never seen any fighter jets beyond what Finnish Air Force has fielded and since Estonia is so close by, I might aswell go see them, seems to be the closest those types of jets are going to come here. On other current events, there was a debate show on TV over the current situation, its kinda weird seeing Finnish people fervently defending Putin arguing Russians hating him.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:21
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Canada and Estonia (odd bedfellows) have requested a special meeting of the OSCE I think 17th at noon local, invoking Chapter 3 of the Vienna Document re: Russia's troop buildup. VD is another one of those post-war questionably binding agreements, this one governing mandatory notice on troop movements / exercises and cross-inspections. I can't say if this'll have more consequence than any other diplomatic hufflepuffery has had, but someone seems to think there's something urgent.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:15
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Snowdens Secret posted:Canada and Estonia (odd bedfellows) Isn't Canada legit worried about Russian power projection and claiming of the undersea Arctic?
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Apr 17, 2014 04:35
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Soylent Pudding posted:Isn't Canada legit worried about Russian power projection and claiming of the undersea Arctic? Yeah; I think to stake a real claim on the arctic Canada will need ICBMs with some goddamn heavy kill-all-russians ordinance. And population dispersal plans too.
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Apr 17, 2014 07:10
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Soylent Pudding posted:Isn't Canada legit worried about Russian power projection and claiming of the undersea Arctic? Worried is a relative term. The Russians are less a security risk and more a risk to perceived territorial integrity in the Arctic, which is something the current government has prioritized and was one of the reasons Harper wanted the F-35. Nobody is worried about Russians marching down from the North Pole like they're a bunch of white walkers, the government is more worried that Russians will fly over/sail through Canadian waters and it'll be humiliating if we can't feasibly do anything to stop them. I think I've said before that in Tom Clancy world if there was an actual Russian incursion into the Canadian arctic the Canadian strategy is to call in the Americans.
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Apr 17, 2014 07:43
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The Canadians have concerns about everybody and their motherland laying claim to theoretically soon-to-no-longer-be-under-ice oil and gas deposits in the Artic. This includes Russia, and China, who I'm sure have some dotted-line maps showing it was all theirs back in the Qin Dinasty. I don't think it's relevant to Thursday's meeting, though.
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Apr 17, 2014 08:31
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Canada also has one of the highest concentrations of ethnic Ukies outside of Ukraine. I'm sure they've been kicking and screaming at Ottawa to do something.
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Apr 17, 2014 12:30
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poo poo's going down in ukraine yo
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Apr 17, 2014 14:48
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Fojar38 posted:Worried is a relative term. The Russians are less a security risk and more a risk to perceived territorial integrity in the Arctic, which is something the current government has prioritized and was one of the reasons Harper wanted the F-35. Nobody is worried about Russians marching down from the North Pole like they're a bunch of white walkers, the government is more worried that Russians will fly over/sail through Canadian waters and it'll be humiliating if we can't feasibly do anything to stop them. nah man, in tom clancy's world canada and the us have merged into a single state with a hispanic pres. and the army disarm some nukes in Toronto or somewhere with like 2 seconds left - it was pretty cool and i felt like i was the one who disarmed the nukes after i finished reading
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Apr 17, 2014 15:12
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:nah man, in tom clancy's world canada and the us have merged into a single state with a hispanic pres. and the army disarm some nukes in Toronto or somewhere with like 2 seconds left - it was pretty cool and i felt like i was the one who disarmed the nukes after i finished reading And that presidents name was Domingo "Ding" Chavez.
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Apr 17, 2014 15:28
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Europe could probably achieve energy independence from Russia by hooking up a dynamo to Clancy's coffin right now.
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Apr 17, 2014 15:41
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Russia just passed a bill that banned direct election of mayors across the federation. Basically now Moscow appoints all of the mayors.
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Apr 17, 2014 15:43
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Apparently this is happening: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/ 
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Apr 17, 2014 16:42
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FIDEL CASHFLOW posted:Apparently this is happening: 
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Apr 17, 2014 16:47
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If the 20th century was an abattoir, what will the 21st be
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Apr 17, 2014 16:59
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FIDEL CASHFLOW posted:Apparently this is happening:  owned
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