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indoflaven posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2uGmk0kYC4 *"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing."
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Apr 4, 2014 04:59
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wontondestruction posted:I did leave time for the stone to re-heat, and they were cooked for about 5-6 minutes. I am kinda baffled. Off the top of my head, I'd point to the oil in your dough as the culprit (assuming you use oil in your recipe). It's possible that oil from your first pies is finding it's way onto the stone, burning and leaving it's horrible stnak on your later pies. I actually learned this the hard way trying to use a store bought dough (containing oil) with a wood burning oven. Hearth temp was right around 750 and caused the oil in the dough to scorch and burn the poo poo out of the the bottoms. Just for grins I tasted it anyway and it was way worse than just burnt dough, it was like licking a Kingsford bricket.
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Apr 5, 2014 00:28
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Sointenly posted:Off the top of my head, I'd point to the oil in your dough as the culprit (assuming you use oil in your recipe). It's possible that oil from your first pies is finding it's way onto the stone, burning and leaving it's horrible stnak on your later pies. I think you're right on. So what's the fix? No oil? (It's a Guy Fieri recipe and my wife made it, but I am 99% sure there is olive oil in there.) I know those stones absorb, so some nice plate steel is in my future. Thanks for the help, So!
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Apr 5, 2014 02:18
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Mu Zeta posted:Lou Malnati's has it with cornmeal. Yep! And it's really bad. There's no way it's the recipe he uses in his restaurant, unless people like eating pizza with sand in it. Or he's sold out and makes bad pizza. Either way, cornmeal does not belong in or around pizza. Let me stress that: Cornmeal is mutually exclusive to pizza. If you're using cornmeal, you're doing something else wrong. Sorry! 
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Apr 5, 2014 07:31
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Corn meal is fine for a sprinkled base for the pizza to slide around on...I wouldn't want tons of it in the dough but we do have a place in Sacramento named Zelda's that makes deep dish with a significant amount of cornmeal and it's not sandy at all. Maybe it's soaked and softened first. Also keep in mind America's Test Kitchen is all about modifying old recipes and experimenting and they are definitely not from Chicago.
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Apr 5, 2014 17:18
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Nostrum posted:Yep! And it's really bad. There's no way it's the recipe he uses in his restaurant, unless people like eating pizza with sand in it. Or he's sold out and makes bad pizza. Either way, cornmeal does not belong in or around pizza. Let me stress that: Hey man come to Little Star Pizza in San Francisco and get the Brass Monkey. It's delicious. http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/01/daily-slice-the-brass-monkey-at-little-star-pizza-san-francisco.html 
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Apr 5, 2014 17:25
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wontondestruction posted:I think you're right on. So what's the fix? No oil? (It's a Guy Fieri recipe and my wife made it, but I am 99% sure there is olive oil in there.) I know those stones absorb, so I don't use oil in my pizza dough, and haven't run into the problem you've described, so cutting it out is worth a shot.
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Apr 7, 2014 16:48
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wontondestruction posted:I think you're right on. So what's the fix? No oil? (It's a Guy Fieri recipe and my wife made it, but I am 99% sure there is olive oil in there.) I know those stones absorb, so According to the internet, Extra V Olive Oil has a smoke point of 405 degrees. This would seem to back up our theory. Are you going for a particular style of pizza? Traditional Naples style dough's don't use any oil, just flour, water, salt and yeast. American style dough's do use oil as it adds work-ability and helps brown the crust in lower temp that we use here. I'd try a recipe that doesnt use oil and give that a try. Or, if you want to make sure your crust browns nicely just brush a little EVOO around the edge of the pie before you bake it off. Oh and about the steel plate idea. Those are more suited for a home oven than they are a grill IMO. I think I read that when you start getting over 600f, baking steel's stop being the better way to go. I could be wrong about that though.
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Apr 7, 2014 19:27
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So I have all my ingredients to make pizza tonight, except yeast. I've just finished making some wine though and there is a bunch of yeast at the bottom. Can I use my wine yeast to make dough, saving me having to go out and buy some yeast? Will it make weird dough or is yeast just yeast as far as this is concerned?
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Apr 8, 2014 13:53
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Ahdinko posted:So I have all my ingredients to make pizza tonight, except yeast. I've just finished making some wine though and there is a bunch of yeast at the bottom. Can I use my wine yeast to make dough, saving me having to go out and buy some yeast? Will it make weird dough or is yeast just yeast as far as this is concerned? I would wager that the yeast at the bottom of the wine is no longer active/alive and even if it is it is of a different variety that the bakers yeast used in bread.
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Apr 8, 2014 14:24
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^^^^it's definitely alive, brewers/vinters use previous batch yeast cakes all the time. As for different yeast, well, it will be a different strain, but bakers and brewers yeast are both saccharomyces cerevisiae. Bakers yeast is just a strain that shifts towards rapid CO2 production, give beer and wine yeast enough time and they'll make enough co2 also. As a regular reader and poster in the brewing thread and the pizza thread, I'd say use it. I use my beer yeast all the time.its not as quick rising and it will probably more sensitive to temperatures though. I scoop out around a tablespoon and make a slurry with it in warm water then add a little sugar to proof it. Make sure you're doing a long rise with it and look up the strain to check its minimum temperature, a regular fridge will probably be too cold, so I personally use my fermentation chamber which I keep more in the 50-70 degree range. Daedalus Esquire fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 14:33
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I've done a fair bit of home brewing myself and I'll backup the temperature concerns. Most brewing yeasts prefer a temperature between 60-70 degrees. If you're going to be doing a cold ferment in the fridge I would watch it pretty closely. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.
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Apr 8, 2014 16:25
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I do actually have a lager on the go aswell for which the yeast is probably better suited to the lower temperatures, I'll nick some yeast out of that instead. It was just easier to do the wine as I'm decanting that into bottles tonight anyway.
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Apr 8, 2014 16:27
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Saturday I'm doing a little party and I wanted to make a big batch of dough and then make pizza. What's the best way to do that? I was going to do twice the quantity I do usually the evening before then let it sit in the fridge. Would that work, or can I directly partition into single pizza balls?
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Apr 9, 2014 08:14
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Le0 posted:Saturday I'm doing a little party and I wanted to make a big batch of dough and then make pizza.
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Apr 9, 2014 14:14
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Le0 posted:Saturday I'm doing a little party and I wanted to make a big batch of dough and then make pizza. Do you have space in your fridge for a couple of trays / cookie sheets? If so i'd ball it first. Make your dough, let it rest for 45 mins, ball it, arrange the balled dough on lightly oiled cookie sheets and cover with plastic wrap. Stack the cookie sheets in the fridge and let the balls rise. For my dough, I can take it strait out of the fridge and start pressing out pies. If your dough isn't as cooperative though make sure you take it out of the fridge with enough time to come up to temp.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:34
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Le0 posted:Saturday I'm doing a little party and I wanted to make a big batch of dough and then make pizza. You can do it either way, but I'd recommend splitting it up before the fridge. The dough will be easier to work with at room temperature, and it means less work to do when you have people over. Before my dough is ready to go into the fridge, I always split it up into individual pizzas and put them into containers with a little bit of oil to keep it from sticking. Sometimes I'll pull out a chunk of generic no-knead dough to make a pizza, but its a little more work. OtherworldlyInvader fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 16:36
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Is it better to shape the dough before it comes to room temp or after? I ask because I do the overnight proof after balling but once I let it come back up to room temp and then try to spin or shape it, I find it's probably a little too easy to tear, and cold dough is easier to work with. I'm thinking that if I shape with a rolling pin before I let it rise back to room temp, then the yeast waking up will give me the bubbles and I can do an easy finger-press to take it that last inch and make the cornicione. Good idea or no?
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Apr 10, 2014 12:01
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Aaronicon posted:Is it better to shape the dough before it comes to room temp or after? I ask because I do the overnight proof after balling but once I let it come back up to room temp and then try to spin or shape it, I find it's probably a little too easy to tear, and cold dough is easier to work with. I'm thinking that if I shape with a rolling pin before I let it rise back to room temp, then the yeast waking up will give me the bubbles and I can do an easy finger-press to take it that last inch and make the cornicione. Good idea or no? I never let my dough come up to room temp, if I did i'd just have a soft mess that's impossible to work with. In fact when I worked at a pizza place years ago we always pulled dough strait from the refidge, we never let it warm up at all. Still to this day that is the easiest dough I've ever spun out. Before I forget.. NO ROLLING PINS! IMO all your going to accomplish with that is squeezing out 24hrs worth of good yeast farts. Try the dimple test. Pull your dough out and let it sit out on the counter. After 30-40 minutes go give one of the balls a poke. If the indent your finger makes springs right back at you you've got some more waiting to to do. When you get to the point where you can make a dimple in the dough and it stays, that's when it's time to spin! Keep in mind that this could be anywhere from 30 minutes to 3hrs... so be patient and at least the next time you'll have a better idea for it.
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Apr 10, 2014 16:06
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indoflaven posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2uGmk0kYC4 Was this just a Google find or has someone actually tried this? My dad is from Villa Park and he'd freak if I cranked out a passable Chicago style.
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Apr 10, 2014 16:15
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Sointenly posted:Was this just a Google find or has someone actually tried this? I've made it several times. Been to Giordano's and Lou Malnati's. It's goddamn close. It's just a lot more work than the video shows.
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Apr 10, 2014 19:28
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I experimented with making a pan-style pizza in a half-sheet pan, for a quick and easy pizza to feed a bunch of guests without slaving away in the kitchen. It turned out pretty much how I wanted it to, except I wasn't able to get the bottom crust to fry and turn golden brown. Most of the pan pizza recipes I see are in a cast iron skillet, which I thought would insulate the pizza more than it would cook it for the heat and cook times I'm dealing with (550F/~15 minutes) but I guess I was wrong. Either way, switching to cast iron would sort of defeat the purpose (making a big 'ol pizza quick and easy). Anyone have any ideas? Am I on a fool's errand? I definitely prefer a Neapolitan or NY style cooked directly on a stone, but making and baking more than a couple of those takes a long time and a lot of effort. The pizza in question: 
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Apr 11, 2014 03:20
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The only reason I could see why that wouldn't work is that you didn't grease the pan enough or there were air bubbles trapped under your dough.
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Apr 11, 2014 07:16
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I experimented with making a pan-style pizza in a half-sheet pan, for a quick and easy pizza to feed a bunch of guests without slaving away in the kitchen. It turned out pretty much how I wanted it to, except I wasn't able to get the bottom crust to fry and turn golden brown. Most of the pan pizza recipes I see are in a cast iron skillet, which I thought would insulate the pizza more than it would cook it for the heat and cook times I'm dealing with (550F/~15 minutes) but I guess I was wrong. Either way, switching to cast iron would sort of defeat the purpose (making a big 'ol pizza quick and easy). Anyone have any ideas? Am I on a fool's errand? I definitely prefer a Neapolitan or NY style cooked directly on a stone, but making and baking more than a couple of those takes a long time and a lot of effort. I've used Kenji's recipe a few times and it's worked well: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-square-pan-pizza-dough-recipe-sicilian-recipe.html It seems you may need more oil on the pan, and you can try using a lower rack in your oven to get it closer to the heating element. That should fix your problems.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:52
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Yeah lots of oil and on the bottom rack led to a pretty good bottom crust on this sheet pan pizza that I did
Jerome Louis fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 12, 2014 |
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Apr 11, 2014 19:30
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I experimented with making a pan-style pizza in a half-sheet pan, for a quick and easy pizza to feed a bunch of guests without slaving away in the kitchen. It turned out pretty much how I wanted it to, except I wasn't able to get the bottom crust to fry and turn golden brown. Most of the pan pizza recipes I see are in a cast iron skillet, which I thought would insulate the pizza more than it would cook it for the heat and cook times I'm dealing with (550F/~15 minutes) but I guess I was wrong. Either way, switching to cast iron would sort of defeat the purpose (making a big 'ol pizza quick and easy). Anyone have any ideas? Am I on a fool's errand? I definitely prefer a Neapolitan or NY style cooked directly on a stone, but making and baking more than a couple of those takes a long time and a lot of effort. If you want to use cast iron, the key is to preheat the pan over the burner for a few minutes before you put it in the oven. I've done this a few times with a lot of success: http://www.macheesmo.com/2011/03/cast-iron-pizza/
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Apr 11, 2014 19:32
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contrapants posted:If you want to use cast iron, the key is to preheat the pan over the burner for a few minutes before you put it in the oven. I just tried this last night and it worked out great. The crust was probably the best I've done yet. I was going to buy a pizza stone, but I think I'll save the money and use my cast iron. Was reluctant because it was a smaller one, but hey, personal pizza is great.
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Apr 12, 2014 16:22
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I think I used about 3 tablespoons of olive oil in the bottom of the pan, but it just didn't stay in there long enough to brown the bottom/edges. I think next time I'll make sure its on the bottom rack, and might try parbaking the crust, or maybe using some aluminum foil to slow down the cooking on the top. I might also try one in a cast iron pan sometime to see how it compares.
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Apr 12, 2014 22:47
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indoflaven posted:I've made it several times. Been to Giordano's and Lou Malnati's. It's goddamn close. It's just a lot more work than the video shows. The whole thing about slathering on a ton of butter on the dough and then folding it into layers is irking me a bit. I cant tell you exactly why, but there's something off-putting about it. I think i'm going to give this a go first and see how it turns out. http://www.realdeepdish.com/RDDHolyGrail.pdf Oh, I did like her sauce recipe though, might pick pocket that.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:56
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Sointenly posted:The whole thing about slathering on a ton of butter on the dough and then folding it into layers is irking me a bit. I cant tell you exactly why, but there's something off-putting about it. Folding butter into the dough is called laminating and it's how places like Giordano's end up with layers. It's also how you make croissants and puff pastry, etc. It's not really off-putting at all when you think of it in those contexts. Also, it's important to note that the places that use laminated dough are usually also serving stuffed pizza, not deep dish. The press-in-pan dough you linked will give you a crust more like Gino's. It's more dense, crunchier and slightly corn-flavored from the oil. Both are good, just different styles. And I saw that 6-in-1 tomatoes were mentioned in that recipe you linked. I'm gonna say here again that those are by far the best canned tomatoes I've ever used. So much so that I don't bother making pizzas now if I don't have the 6-in-1s. You can use it straight from the can without draining, or even without adding any seasoning, and it's perfect.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:14
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Crusty Nutsack posted:Folding butter into the dough is called laminating and it's how places like Giordano's end up with layers. It's also how you make croissants and puff pastry, etc. It's not really off-putting at all when you think of it in those contexts. Also, it's important to note that the places that use laminated dough are usually also serving stuffed pizza, not deep dish. Thank's for this. I saw some people on pizzamaking.com talking about a "top layer" for their deep dish and was confused, I assume this is the stuffed pizza you are referring to. I'll be starting with a simple DD. About the laminating, I get it. I guess the WFO pizza nerd in me didn't want to believe that such a thing existed. The idea of taking a rolling pin to dough is hard enough to come to grips with. That being said, this is obviously a different beast and I cant argue with the results. Sointenly fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 22:30
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Sointenly posted:Thank's for this. I saw some people on pizzamaking.com talking about a "top layer" for their deep dish and was confused, I assume this is the stuffed pizza you are referring to. Well, you're already making a pizza by pressing the dough into a pan kind of like a pie, so rolling isn't really too far off. Besides, most crisp non-NY style thin crust pizzas are rolled out. And yeah the top layer is for stuffed pizza. They generally have softer, more bread-like dough than deep dish. And the layering goes bottom crust, toppings, cheese, top crust, then sauce. Deep dish is usually crust, cheese, toppings, sauce.
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Apr 15, 2014 02:31
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So I finally got an influx of disposable income and went to find the pizza steel thread to order one only to discover they were shutting down shop.  Is there a reasonable alternative online? I found this guy online but it's 1/4 inch and I'm sketchy on what the quality is going to be like. In the Pizza steel thread it had been mentioned that the euro guys who couldn't afford the shipping were looking at local steel shops to get one custom made, is that going to be my best bet now as an American? Looking around, there seems to be a local steel fabricator that can take the same pizza steel CAD files as from the old thread and work with those, but I need to get in contact with them for pricing. The local shops do work with stainless steel so I'm curious if I should look into the viability of getting a stainless baking steel. Edit: Found a local fabricator that could do cast iron too. Any amateur metallurgists that can give me a breakdown of a Cast Iron vs Steel vs Stainless Steel breakdown for advantages? DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 22:30
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I just went onto http://bakingsteel.com and it seems fine? No mention of a closure and still active on Twitter?
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Apr 16, 2014 00:39
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Heners_UK posted:I just went onto http://bakingsteel.com and it seems fine? No mention of a closure and still active on Twitter? Some goons were doing a DIY version which was basically the same thing, unseasoned, for closer to $50 (I think) for the 1/4" variety.
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Apr 16, 2014 03:12
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Onlinemetals.com can cut and ship custom metal but I'm not sure which type or grade should be used. Local pick up for Seattle area people.
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Apr 16, 2014 03:21
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BraveUlysses posted:Onlinemetals.com can cut and ship custom metal but I'm not sure which type or grade should be used. A36
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Apr 16, 2014 03:34
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So a local steel manufacturer is able to do Type II Clear Coat and Type III Hard Coat anodizing finishes that they specifically cite as being food safe. If I get a baking steel with that sort of finish does that change how I care for it? Would an anodized finish still require it to be oiled and seasoned or is it rust resistant? Edit : one of the non anodizing shops just quoted me $75. More expensive than the old goon deal, but cheaper than online. Let's see if any of the other shops will deal with an order as small as mine here. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 16:27
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DeathSandwich posted:So a local steel manufacturer is able to do Type II Clear Coat and Type III Hard Coat anodizing finishes that they specifically cite as being food safe. If I get a baking steel with that sort of finish does that change how I care for it? Would an anodized finish still require it to be oiled and seasoned or is it rust resistant? My father in law went to a local metal yard and picked through the scrap section. He found me a 48" by 48" piece of 1/4" A36 steel. Since it was scrap they charged by the pound, got out of their for under $20. Ended up cutting it down to a 22" circle, seasoned the poo poo out of it and have been using it with good results.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:06
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Tried out my newly acquired steel last night for the first time. What a huge difference. The stone took at least 6-7 minutes or more at 500°F, and made a decent pizza, but the steel blasted through the same size pie in half the time and did it 10x better. Great char on the bottom and nicely bubbled cheese up top. I'll be doing two more tonight, but bumped up to 550° (max for the oven). Hopefully that'll brown the top of the crust a little more before the bottom is overdone. This is with a pretty standard cheater crust (water/brown sugar/active yeast/flour, rise for an hour), the one variety I found recently works out very well. I'm lucky enough to work in a shop that has a bunch of scrap metal around, so I found and cut down a piece of 3/8" thick plate to 16" x 20", polished it all around, and took it home and seasoned it.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:23
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