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Try deep frying the burger patty to finish it off too. Modernist Cuisine goes crazy and freezes the burger solid with liquid nitrogen after sous vide, so a quick dunk in the fryer will crisp the outside without cooking the inside. If you skip the freezing step it's still not bad though, just a little more medium/done towards the outside.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:12
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mod sassinator posted:Try deep frying the burger patty to finish it off too. Modernist Cuisine goes crazy and freezes the burger solid with liquid nitrogen after sous vide, so a quick dunk in the fryer will crisp the outside without cooking the inside. If you skip the freezing step it's still not bad though, just a little more medium/done towards the outside. Sounds like all the excuse I need to get some liquid nitrogen.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:27
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Good video of the basic idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_tgxzXmpKQ Also how to make super crispy french fries with an ultrasonic bath.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:40
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I have the other three patties chilled and in the fridge, so subsequent burgin' should be even better. I was thinking about something related to potentially cooking for a crowd- has anyone done multiple doneness stuff? I'm thinking you'd do your higher temp/more well done stuff, then drop your temp, add the rarer stuff and leave the more well done stuff in the now cooler bath. Is that a bad idea? Will it kill your dinner party guests with all sort of horrible bacteria?
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Apr 16, 2014 21:54
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That's exactly right. It should work fine as long as you don't end up cooking the burger for hours on end.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:06
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Could also do it the other way around, cooler temp, take out the rare stuff and quick-chill, raise temp, take out the medium stuff and quick-chill, finish well done stuff, turn water down to rare temp and reheat. The time it'll take for centers to reach temperature will be much much shorter than from-scratch, and you'll already have pasteurized from cooking at a rare temp.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:16
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I was at the grocery store and I saw some vacuum packed, pre-sauced ribs, so I decided to try 72 hour ribs: easy mode. Step 1: remove the paper and soak:  The bitchin' pot-within-a-pot helps to insulate -- probably. It at least keeps my cats from brushing up against a hot metal pot when they jump on the counter. Step 2: set course for 57 degrees:  Nomiku running at peak efficiency, captain! Step 3: aluminum foil on top to keep the wet stuff in.  Hasta la vizzle, baby.
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Apr 17, 2014 05:33
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My plating is absolute poo poo because I drowned the loving thing in the bag juice sauce. Tried to reduce it, but it was already super thick from all the collagen melting into the bag juices during the 48 hour braise. Tender as hell and quite tasty though. As you can see, I finished the meal with the succulent marrow spread on a piece of english muffin.    
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Apr 17, 2014 08:01
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Modernist Cusine at Home has a burger preparation which goes straight from the puddle machine to the deep fryer. I've never done it since I don't own a dedicated deep fryer and I've heard too many wok-frying horror stories, but I have eaten the final result at a friend's place. It's loving delicious.
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Apr 17, 2014 09:25
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It's realllly easy deep frying in a cast iron dutch oven. I think I'll try this out next time I make s-v burgers.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:00
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BraveUlysses posted:It's realllly easy deep frying in a cast iron dutch oven. Seconded. Add a fryer/candy thermometer and I'd argue the dutch oven is better than any stand alone fryer.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:08
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Reiterpallasch posted:Modernist Cusine at Home has a burger preparation which goes straight from the puddle machine to the deep fryer. I've never done it since I don't own a dedicated deep fryer and I've heard too many wok-frying horror stories, but I have eaten the final result at a friend's place. It's loving delicious. Yeah I've done it and its a good recipe. Go for slightly thicker patties so the center is protected more from the heat. Frying isn't too bad if you have a nice heavy tall pot.
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Apr 17, 2014 18:24
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah I've done it and its a good recipe. Go for slightly thicker patties so the center is protected more from the heat. Frying isn't too bad if you have a nice heavy tall pot. I did steaks this way last night and they turned out very nice. I did drop them in an ice bath for about 5 min before I put them in the fryer to keep from over cooking and it worked really well. Fried burgers are on the list of things to do.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:02
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Has anyone tried any of the reusable sous vide bags? I'm thinking about getting an Anova as a gift for a friend who has never tried sous vide before, but I know he will have an issue with the waste involved in one-time-use vacuum bags.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:12
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From what I gather on Amazon reviews, it seems like they work fine until they don't, which might be after a few weeks or a few months, I dunno. They seem to lose their ability to hold a vacuum, and you never know when failure might strike. You could use ziploc bags instead but same problem, after several uses the ziploc is going to get worn and fail.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:21
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That seems to match what I read elsewhere too, plus those silicone ones only seem to come in 1 liter size. I guess he'll have to deal.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:43
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Reiterpallasch posted:Modernist Cusine at Home has a burger preparation which goes straight from the puddle machine to the deep fryer. I've never done it since I don't own a dedicated deep fryer and I've heard too many wok-frying horror stories, but I have eaten the final result at a friend's place. It's loving delicious. I got a chance to try a cryo-fried burger (same preparation but they freeze it with liquid nitrogen before frying to minimize gradient in the meat) and it was pretty tasty but I don't know how much of that was the nitrogen bath versus just really good quality meat. I've tried to approximate by freezing the burger but that takes too long and in my opinion makes the end product mushier (although I haven't done any kind of side by side test) and by submerging in a bath of dry ice and alcohol but that had similar results.
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Apr 18, 2014 11:27
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I just finished off my sous-vided and fridged burgers, and I noticed a distinct difference between the one I had tossed in the pan right after it came out of the bath, and the others that had been in the fridge. Definitely a better distinction between the crust and the interior on the cold burgers. I think I may just make a bunch of patties to puddle and then freeze and pull out and sear as needed/desired.
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Apr 18, 2014 22:53
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http://www.cookingissues.com/2009/06/17/boring-but-useful-technical-post-vacuum-machines-affect-the-texture-of-your-meat/ (2009) This pretty much confirms what I suspected. Seems there is still a bit of a debate about why it happens. The comments mention a Modernist Cuisine quote about boiling under vacuum causing damage, but Dave Arnold challenges that theory with an experiment. The layman in me says it's just the compression squeezing out the juices.
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Apr 19, 2014 20:28
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I don't understand what the mechanism would be. You're going to get more pressure from submersion in fluid than you are from the plastic around the piece of meat.
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Apr 19, 2014 21:14
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You got a chamber vacuum? I feel for you, son. My foodsaver got 99 problems but 99% vacuum ain't one.
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Apr 19, 2014 21:52
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Steve Yun posted:You got a chamber vacuum? I feel for you, son. I could sit here and claim some sort of vacuum sealer superiority, but I'm just being honest about it. For sous vide purposes, it is unnecessary, and part of me wishes I knew about this before. That said, it's awesome for soups and has been 100% less finicky than my FoodSaver. Ziplock bags and the submerge-method is really all anyone needs, and possibly the best way.
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Apr 19, 2014 22:07
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TATPants fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2014 22:23
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geetee posted:I could sit here and claim some sort of vacuum sealer superiority, but I'm just being honest about it. For sous vide purposes, it is unnecessary, and part of me wishes I knew about this before. That said, it's awesome for soups and has been 100% less finicky than my FoodSaver. Ziplock bags and the submerge-method is really all anyone needs, and possibly the best way. I always thought that vacuum sealing had it's benefits for long term cooks- 72hr short ribs and the like, in terms of bag integrity. I know I've gotten worried about my ziplocs during the longer cooks I've done (~24 hours) and was planning on grabbing a FoodSaver or equivalent before I get into the multi-day stuff.
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Apr 19, 2014 23:27
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Veritek83 posted:I always thought that vacuum sealing had it's benefits for long term cooks- 72hr short ribs and the like, in terms of bag integrity. I know I've gotten worried about my ziplocs during the longer cooks I've done (~24 hours) and was planning on grabbing a FoodSaver or equivalent before I get into the multi-day stuff. The foodsaver I have has a very good chance of bursting if I cook something s-v for 72 hours, and I've never had a heavy duty ziploc bag burst on me.
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Apr 19, 2014 23:42
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I've done ziploc for 48 hours plenty of times and 72 hours a couple times and have had no problems. I am always concerned, but it works out fine.
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Apr 19, 2014 23:56
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Veritek83 posted:I always thought that vacuum sealing had it's benefits for long term cooks- 72hr short ribs and the like, in terms of bag integrity. I know I've gotten worried about my ziplocs during the longer cooks I've done (~24 hours) and was planning on grabbing a FoodSaver or equivalent before I get into the multi-day stuff. Trivial solution: double bag it.
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Apr 20, 2014 02:28
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TATPants posted:Untrue - remember that the air is a fluid, too. By vacuuming the bag to 99.9%, you are essentially adding all the weight of the atmosphere onto the item of food. So at 99.9% vacuum, the food is at around 1 ATM of pressure. Water pressure increases with depth at a rate of about 1 ATM per 10 meters, so the submersion is negligible compared to the vacuum. With the zip lock bag technique you are spot on, but this changes when you actually pull a vacuum. The piece of food is already at one atmosphere, though, just by virtue of being in the air. Air pressure doesn't magically only apply to things sealed in plastic.
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Apr 20, 2014 05:38
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a foolish pianist posted:The piece of food is already at one atmosphere, though, just by virtue of being in the air. Air pressure doesn't magically only apply to things sealed in plastic. Kenji shows what happens to chop meat here: http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/06/the-burger-lab-how-to-cook-a-burger-sous-vide-without-a-sous-vide-machine.html A solid piece of meat isn't as porous, but I can definitely observe the bag contorting the meat a bit. I imagine the added pressure while cooking is like pressing a spatula down on a burger. I'll probably test this one day, but I hate to waste food.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:48
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Up next, wagyu beef chuck roast, 36 hours at 132* F.
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Apr 20, 2014 08:59
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TATPants posted:Untrue - remember that the air is a fluid, too. By vacuuming the bag to 99.9%, you are essentially adding all the weight of the atmosphere onto the item of food. So at 99.9% vacuum, the food is at around 1 ATM of pressure. The food's at 1 atmosphere of pressure when it's sitting there on the counter, just like you are. Putting it in a vaccuum bag can't *add* any pressure to it. geetee posted:Kenji shows what happens to chop meat here: http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/06/the-burger-lab-how-to-cook-a-burger-sous-vide-without-a-sous-vide-machine.html That's happening because the burger has some 14.7psi air in it, and you're sucking that out too when you apply the vaccum. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 10:20
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TATPants fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2014 13:35
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TATPants posted:Let's compare two cases, the horizontal upper surfaces of two containers, one of which is at 1 atm of pressure inside with 1 atm of pressure outside and the other with a near vacuum inside and 1 atm of pressure outside. In the case of the container with equal pressures, there is no net force of the bag, since the pressure everywhere is equal. In the other case, since you have removed the pressure from the bag, there is a net force applied to the surface. This force is equal to the the area of the surface times 1 atm. You're still not getting it. In thee vacuum, the plastic bag is pressing on the food with a force of one atmosphere. Outside the plastic, just sitting on the counter, the air around the food is pressing on the food with a force of one atmosphere. 1 = 1. There's no change in pressure.
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Apr 20, 2014 13:41
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TATPants fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jun 10, 2017 |
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Apr 20, 2014 15:00
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TATPants posted:Before being sealed, the pressure of the food is 1 atm, and after, it is much closer to zero. This is not true. Before it is vacuum sealed, the air is pushing on it. After vacuum sealing, the plastic pushes on it. If you had a meat pressure gauge inside it, it would read 1 atmosphere. To have a pressure difference, you need a barrier that doesn't yield or a constant flow. A stiff plastic box can easily hold a noticeable pressure difference, which you can see if you close it with something hot inside and let it cool. The air contracts and the box lets off a *pssht* as air rushes in when you open it. TATPants posted:Try this thought experiment...Let's say you climb up Everest, where the air pressure is a lot lower than at ground level, and fill a big bag of air and seal it. Climb down the mountain and your bag has become all shriveled. Why? The air pressure inside it is lower than atmospheric pressure, which caused it to appear deflated because of the force that pressure applies to the surface of the bag. The bolded bit is not true. Yes the bag will shrivel, because the pressure outside the bag has compressed the air inside it until the two pressures were equal. It has the same pressure as the outside, but since there are no more molecules added to the bag on the trip down, they take up a smaller volume than they did on top. You could get a pressure difference by using a solid container or by doing it the other way around. Fill a bag of air at the bottom and bring it to the top. If it doesn't burst, it will be taut as a drum from the overpressure inside it wanting to escape. TATPants posted:Untrue - remember that the air is a fluid, too. Of course not, it's a gas. There are conditions in which air can behave as a liquid, the atmosphere in your kitchen, romantic as it might be, is not one of those.
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Apr 20, 2014 17:41
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Gasses are fluids, man. Also you missed his point that air is removed from the interstices of a porous food - that's what allows the inner pressure to reduce and the outer pressure to then compress the food. Edit: Try vaccing (vazzling?) a soft sponge, for an extreme example.
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Apr 20, 2014 17:55
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Choadmaster posted:Gasses are fluids, man. No they are not. Gases are gases, liquids are liquids. That's two of the three phases of matter.  Choadmaster posted:Also you missed his point that air is removed from the interstices of a porous food - that's what allows the inner pressure to reduce and the outer pressure to then compress the food. No, that's the point I tried to clear up. This would work with a solid sponge which didn't change its shape during the process. The gaps inside it previously filled with air would lose their contents without changing shape. There would be nothing (or a lot less) inside them, a vacuum. But a burger patty or a soft sponge will compress, those gaps will disappear. It will take up a smaller volume but have the same pressure. There is a pressure difference which causes the air to escape, created by the vacuum machine. When the air is flowing, a pressure gauge would show a drop. But once the bag is sealed, the pressure inside the flexible container it is the same as outside it, only the atmosphere inside is 100% sirloin instead of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, bits of argon etc.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:09
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Ola posted:No they are not. Gases are gases, liquids are liquids. That's two of the three phases of matter. Fluids are substances that flow when exposed to a shear stress. Gases and liquids are both fluids.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:13
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Right, I've misunderstood the use of fluid and liquid. Both are fluids, ok. But a liquid is different to a gas agree? Water (the primary ingredient of steak) does not compress, air does.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:22
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I thought we were talking about stuff that was chopped (burgers, for example). I will agree with you that a steak ain't really going anywhere.
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Apr 20, 2014 18:35
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