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Zombie Samurai posted:This just makes me think that FTL's design is flawed. Why would the optimal strategy be to neglect your defenses, get shot up, and leave your life support off in a starship survival game? It's completely counter-intuitive. Focusing too much on one thing can lead to problems down the line. This is hardly a unique mechanic to FTL.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:39
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Zombie Samurai posted:This just makes me think that FTL's design is flawed. Why would the optimal strategy be to neglect your defenses, get shot up, and leave your life support off in a starship survival game? It's completely counter-intuitive. It isn't. Probably the best way to go about things is to buy level 2 shields very early because they'll last you the first 4-5 sectors and do pretty well. Turning off your life support frees up extra power but is very, very dangerous because your oxygen will start to drain and if it gets damaged you won't have much time to fix it before your O2 runs out entirely. Taking hits is always a waste of scrap since you have to spend it to repair. It's better to beef up your defences to a mid game level as fast as possible because in the long run the scrap you save on not repairing will make the shields and engines pay for themselves, especially since you need to get them eventually anyway.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:44
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Notorious QIG posted:Focusing too much on one thing can lead to problems down the line. This is hardly a unique mechanic to FTL. I'm not talking about having 4 shield pips or whatever. I'm talking about not having enough defenses to avoid damage and not having enough power to run your O2 during fights being optimal play.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:44
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SuicideSnowman posted:It's really the first couple sectors where you can get screwed over I've found. Generally if you make it past those, there's a lot less bullshit to deal with because you should have taken care of many of your weaknesses by then. But running into an automated ship or a Zoltan ship as the Mantis B on the first or second jump really is obnoxious. To expand a bit: Aside from getting the hang of basic mechanics like pausing for micromanagement, timing weapons, etc, one of the most important skills to pick up is just to learn when to pick your battles and run. By corollary, this also means realizing the importance of system upgrades that allow you to reliably be able to run. Just one or two upgrades to engines is super cheap, and gives you so much more flexibility to be able to flee. You don't even have to power the extra engine slots normally, which is the other important realization. Just having them protects you from getting screwed by a stray missile, and in a situation where you want to run, just de-power your weapons, shunt them into engines and bounce. If you need both, put O2 into engines temporarily instead. Same goes for extra shield pips. You can upgrade the system way before you have the system power to keep them on all the time. Then, if you hit a situation where you want that extra pip but say, don't need to dodge (their laser count is less than your potential shield count), de-power engines and put them to shields. Different ship types have different things they are weak against early on, so learning when to just book it is valuable. Ignore events with potential negative outcomes you can't afford (losing crew when low on crew, losing health when already low on health, etc). Risk mitigation, and the related decision making on which upgrades to take and where to go is the really interesting part of the game for me. There are certainly really, really bad starting situations. I had a first jump into a solar flare against a zoltan ship with missiles. I managed to run from that on fire and half destroyed into another solar flare with an auto drone that also had missiles. I managed to run from that fight with the most of the ship on fire, and 2 health left after the first two jumps. If I had tried to fight it out, I would have been destroyed on the very first battle. That ship still made it to sector 6, and probably could have still gone to the end, had I not made some other mistakes later on. Definitely could have just died right in those first two jumps, though. Zombie Samurai posted:This just makes me think that FTL's design is flawed. Why would the optimal strategy be to neglect your defenses, get shot up, and leave your life support off in a starship survival game? It's completely counter-intuitive. I'm pretty sure he was talking more generally about learning to micromanage with fewer resources allowing you to take more "risks" for more reward. I'd phrase it more as that subsystems like doors, medbay, and piloting are way more important than people realize, and people should consider upgrading them ahead of shields in some situations. Since you maybe delay a shield upgrade, you might take a little more damage from some encounter types, but early not thats not a huge deal. In exchange, you buy yourself near immunity to what would otherwise be crippling events like a 5 person boarding party during a fight, etc.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:45
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Zombie Samurai posted:I'm not talking about having 4 shield pips or whatever. I'm talking about not having enough defenses to avoid damage and not having enough power to run your O2 during fights being optimal play. You run a risk if you do things like turn off your O2 during a fight though. Yeah you get extra power to run other stuff, but at the same time you're slowly depleting your crew of oxygen. If the fight takes a long time they can start to suffocate and if something happens to the O2 system or your hull is breached you can run the very real threat of asphyxiating before you can fix the problem.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:47
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animatorZed posted:I'm pretty sure he was talking more generally about learning to micromanage with fewer resources allowing you to take more "risks" for more reward. I'd phrase it more as that subsystems like doors, medbay, and piloting are way more important than people realize, and people should consider upgrading them ahead of shields in some situations. Since you maybe delay a shield upgrade, you might take a little more damage from some encounter types, but early not thats not a huge deal. In exchange, you buy yourself near immunity to what would otherwise be crippling events like a 5 person boarding party during a fight, etc. Okay, that makes a lot more sense.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:47
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On a random note: the doors upgrades are loving awesome and should not be underestimated. Boarders (except for drones and Lanius of course) can be entirely neutralized by spacing them, and unless they beam into your cockpit there's basically no threat to doing so. The boarder AI is pretty straightforward, too -- destroy local system; when air runs out, move to closest room with air. "Move to closest room" takes a long time with upgraded doors, meaning plenty of asphyxiation damage, and when they do finally break the door down you can just evacuate that room as well and repeat the process. EDIT: also, upgraded doors gives you a blue option for the infamous refuelling station event which gets you a free 5 fuel. Boarder and ionization drones still loving suck though. Maybe engi should get combat bonuses against them. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 22:55
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Zombie Samurai posted:Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Also, the whole point of the game is recreating something like this in video game form:  Mr O'Fixit, we have incoming explodium torpedoes, why aren't the engines working at full power yet? We're giving er all she's got captin! Not enough. Divert power from life support on all decks except 1, 4, and 5 to the engines. Helmsman, defense pattern Theta. Roger, roger, brace for defensive maneuvers.*fwooosh* *boom* Damage report! Torpedoes disabled our starboard weapons! Fires on decks 2,5 and 14! Mr Token, take ensign Redshirt with you and board the enemy ship. Your mission is to provide as much time as possible for the repair crews to do their job. It is a good day to die!It's necessary in a thematic way.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:56
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Zombie Samurai posted:I'm not talking about having 4 shield pips or whatever. I'm talking about not having enough defenses to avoid damage and not having enough power to run your O2 during fights being optimal play. Not having enough power to run your O2 during fights is optimal play, that's what I'm saying; and I think it's flavorful if you consider the "DIVERT ALL POWER FROM LIFE SUPPORT" trope. If you're running your O2 all the time, and have the power to run your shields at max in most fights, you're over-commiting to those resources, especially in the first half of the game. You never need to run your drives at max the whole fight, only when shots are incoming, so you can always bounce the power between your drive and O2. It can be way more efficient, for example, to just buy O2 level 2 than buy extra power, for example; because you give yourself a damage buffer and allow yourself to bounce to level 2 O2 to quickly refill in potentially really dangerous situations, and turn some events blue. The extra money that would otherwise go into fully powered O2/big shields is MUCH better spent early on pips in medbay/doors/piloting/sensors which all turn into big rewards when you hit the right blue option, or cancel a potentially disastrous encounter (boarders/fire). To start beating the game consistantly, you need to learn to commit less to ships as threats, and learn to manage resources to allow yourself to spend more wholistically on event mitigating pips, especially early in the game. Once you start doing that, the game becomes drastically less OMGRNG (though it still happens). Appeal to authority: 
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Apr 17, 2014 23:48
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More FTL talk: Initial impressions tell me that 70% of the new content is amazing, while almost none of it 'meh'. -The 'meh' award goes to the stunning mechanic, specifically the ion stunner Lanius A starts with. -Clone Bay is a runner up for 'meh'. It's classy and fun and anti-scummy, but still seems weaker than a normal medbay. *So* many enounters that result in dead crew aren't affected by the clone bay  I've yet to experiment with killing my own guys yet to get full-heals before a jump.-Mind control I'm pretty iffy about; you can nerf their evasion by MCing the pilot (strong! and probably worth the slot right there), and counteract their MC, but it's most obvious use seems lackluster: turning boarders against themselves defensively fails as their AI makes them walk off instead of fight (bug?). Haven't used it aggressively for boarding but I'm sure It'd be good. -Hacking wins hands-down as the most amazing, polished, in-depth, overpowered, and often downright hilarious new system. It's SO versatile that almost any ship can make good use of it in every matchup. Evil award goes to locking the medbay doors while the malfunctioning machines drain the life out of them. Guns: -Flak cannons are GOOD. -Chain guns are great on paper, but often have issues syncing up well with other weapon timings/archtypes? -[Except the Vulcan cannon, which is glorious and works with literally everything] -Charge weapons are... ok. Not very energy efficient at all, but can fit in with many loadouts. Lanuis themselves seem uninteresting. Maybe because I'm continuing play with my old save, but I'm not really 'getting' their flavour/backstory/feel much, which is a shame. I'm still having fun (just unlocked Zoltan C, hilarious! and strangley relevant to the power micromanagement discussion...), and am so very glad I paid full price a while ago.
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Apr 18, 2014 13:22
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Unormal posted:You never need to run your drives at max the whole fight, only when shots are incoming, so you can always bounce the power between your drive and O2. This is my #2 problem with ftl. So much tedious micromanagement bullshit. Playing like this isn't hard when you can just mash pause all the time.
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Apr 18, 2014 13:39
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The best use for mind control isn't immediately obvious: Mind Control a guy on an enemy ship, and you can teleport him to your ship. Wait for the mind control to wear off, and then beat him up. Makes it very easy to pick off enemy crew one by one, especially if they have a medbay on their ship that's hard to cripple. You can also counter mind control with your own mind control.
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Apr 18, 2014 13:40
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New ADOM finally this morning for backer/pre-order folk that adds full-on new content in the form of the Ice Tower and a heap of other changes.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:03
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Mind-controlled crewmembers are literally on the other team's side (but always AI-controlled), so they should only flee a fight if there's a health-draining effect in the room (no air, or a fire) and they're at critical health. Mind control is an easy way to kill off crewmembers on a ship that has a medbay, since they can't benefit from that medbay while they're controlled, and the AI has no compunctions about killing its own crew. Something to keep in mind is that mind-controlled crew on the flagship will die if you finish a phase while they're controlled. So don't use mind control on the last crewmember when the flagship's at critical health.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:04
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Something to keep in mind is that mind-controlled crew on the flagship will die if you finish a phase while they're controlled. So don't use mind control on the last crewmember when the flagship's at critical health. Wait, why not? Wouldn't it be a good thing to get rid of all crew on the flagship or am I misunderstanding something?
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Apr 18, 2014 15:50
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Jack Trades posted:Wait, why not? Wouldn't it be a good thing to get rid of all crew on the flagship or am I misunderstanding something? If you kill every crewmember on the flagship, a very aggressive AI takes over. It's to stop people from cheesing the victory by killing everybody in phase 1 and auto-winning the next two phases.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:51
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Klaus Kinski posted:This is my #2 problem with ftl. So much tedious micromanagement bullshit. Playing like this isn't hard when you can just mash pause all the time. That's roguelikes though. In crawl ideal play would be to check every enemy for a glowing weapon and then treat them as distortion wielders until proven otherwise. Luckily you don't have to play perfectly to win, it will just increase your odds.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:55
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Notorious QIG posted:If you kill every crewmember on the flagship, a very aggressive AI takes over. It's to stop people from cheesing the victory by killing everybody in phase 1 and auto-winning the next two phases. The main thing about the AI is that it can repair systems. It's not any more "aggressive", it just makes it so you can't completely lock down the flagship's offense except for the triple-laser battery. To clarify: the typical strategy for dealing with the flagship is: Phase 1: * Teleport to the triple-missile battery, kill the crew there, destroy the battery. * Repeat with the triple-ion battery and the heavy-beam battery. * At this point the flagship can't hurt you (assuming you have at least 3 shield pips), so start working on killing the crew in the main section. Blow up the medbay, mind control the crew, set fires everywhere, whatever. * Once all crew are dead except the triple-laser battery guy, blow up the ship. Phase 2: * Take down the triple-missile battery and the drone control units ASAP (I generally prefer to take out drone control first because I loving hate boarding drones). Then the heavy-beam battery, then blow up the ship. Phase 3: * There's no crew in the main body of the ship, so the "boarding" gimmick for this phase is pointless. Take down the triple-missile battery, then blow up the ship. Phase 2 is the hardest section because the flagship has a preposterous degree of drone control even without the power surges. Getting unlucky with timing with the triple-laser battery and the beam battery and/or drone swarm can hurt, and the power surges come faster than your cloak can recharge so you can't just cloak through them all.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:01
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It's worth noting that AE makes the fight much harder in that phase 1 gains a Hacking drone which can really ruin your day depending on what it hacks, and phase 3 gains a Mind Control system. In addition, if you're playing on Hard, the middle two weapons rooms are connected to the main body of the ship, meaning that so long as anybody lives in the main body they can repair the triple missile system.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:09
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There's a new version of incursion with some of the crash bugs and such fixed: https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/
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Apr 20, 2014 02:27
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Anyone still playing DoomRL? How long do they usually go between versions? It's been a year and change.
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Apr 21, 2014 14:41
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Dross posted:Anyone still playing DoomRL? How long do they usually go between versions? It's been a year and change. DoomRL development seems to have been replaced by Jupiter Hell.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:25
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That's not available yet, though, right?
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Apr 21, 2014 18:48
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No, the Kickstarter for it hasn't even happened yet
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Apr 21, 2014 18:56
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I've heard of the need to build a community early for best results for a Kickstarter in the here and now, but I've yet to see the why and how as to WHY Jupiter Hell got announced so incredibly early with slim to nothing to show for it since then to my knowledge? A hype train probably at least needs to chug along as opposed to just sit there in the station for best effect...
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Apr 21, 2014 22:27
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Yeah it seemed like the kickstarter launch was imminent when the game was announced and then there's been absolutely nothing since then. I wasn't really big on the idea to begin with. The whole idea basically seemed to be 'DoomRL with all the identifying marks scrubbed off so I can sell it for profit'
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Apr 21, 2014 22:42
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I was getting the impression that it was also rolling in the AliensRL look/feel. But yea as you said, new IP so it can be sold for profit
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Apr 22, 2014 10:06
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I'm surprised that anyone talking about FTL has needed to say 'upgrade doors', because getting the first doors upgrade is absolutely vital. Probably why advanced now lets you have crew man doors, andKlaus Kinski posted:Meaningful decisions?
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Apr 22, 2014 10:40
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. You plan out a route that allows you to hit as many nodes as possible, it takes a few seconds per sector. You adjust it slightly to account for stores. The rebels catching up to you is pure murder in AE and I can't see it ever being worth it. I'd almost prefer it auto-drawing encounters from a deck of cards.
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I tried playing FTL again and enabled the advanced mode. I went with Engi A and found Flak really early, which was pretty good. Then I found Vulcan Cannon  Too bad the last phase of the flagship completely annihilated me. How does one deal with damaged hull when the nearest repair point is like 4 jumps away and the flagship is only a jump away from the base (it came from the back, too, which kinda made it impossible for me to rush it in order to stop it far from base)? I was really close to winning this time, only if I could repair between the fights. Pretty sure surviving all 3 phases without repairs is beyond my ability.
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Apr 22, 2014 13:11
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Yet another big update to Incursion this morning---enemy spellcasters actually have to moreso follow the rules at long last alongside a good heap of other fixes and a random Game of Thrones shout out.
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Apr 22, 2014 13:29
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lordfrikk posted:I tried playing FTL again and enabled the advanced mode. I went with Engi A and found Flak really early, which was pretty good. Then I found Vulcan Cannon You'll usually need to get through all 3 phases without repairs, unless you have a hull repair drone. Very rarely you might be able to hit a repair node between phases, but don't count on it. You mostly want to jump to those while heading towards the endboss. Have upgraded engines, level 3 shields, and stealth, and you can make it through without taking much damage at all. Just focus on taking out their weapons first. And if you have a teleporter, leaving one of the guys in the weapon pods alive, while killing the rest of the enemy crew is a good strategy. You take your time in phase 1 and do this, since it's easy to render the ship harmless (you can't disable the phase 2 and 3 superweapons, which is part of why stealth is so useful here).
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Apr 22, 2014 13:37
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TOOT BOOT posted:I wasn't really big on the idea to begin with. The whole idea basically seemed to be 'DoomRL with all the identifying marks scrubbed off so I can sell it for profit'
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Apr 22, 2014 14:05
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Bouchacha posted:Meh. It's not like DoomRL was a straight rip-off of another IP. It was a great roguelike with novel mechanics that just happened to use Doom assets and translate run-and-gun gameplay into turn-based tactics. All of this was released for free too, I think he's earned a chance to make a profit. Yeah, I'm really not going to fault the guy for wanting to support himself with the overall project he's been working on for...how many years, now? It's not like DoomRL is going to just be removed entirely and if the new project turns out to be really good then it all works out well for everyone.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:24
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Dungeon of the Endless is shaping up really well. The new character unlock and research systems make the game more sensible mechanically. I haven't had a chance to play it at length, and there are a lot of balance changes (inventory not equipped is wiped between floors now!) But it's really starting to feel like a roguelike tower defense hybrid that makes sense and plays well. I will admit that I love FTL and the game is basically (control wise) FTL on foot.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:18
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The Pit has a new DLC out on Steam for $1.99. It adds a new class and a couple other minor additions.
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Apr 26, 2014 01:57
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Does it add a 'holy poo poo crafting is awful' fix? 
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Apr 26, 2014 02:00
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Rogue Shooter is out on steam. Anyone playing?
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Apr 26, 2014 05:50
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So I decided to check out Nuclear Throne yesterday and after 4 hours of non-stop playing the chicken dude I can conclude the game is officially awesome even though it's still Early Access. Every time I see the name Vlambeer I get inappropriately giddy. Everything from the gameplay to music is stylish and well-though out, the dude/dudette/dudes really know how to make games. lordfrikk fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 26, 2014 |
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Apr 26, 2014 11:36
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TOOT BOOT posted:The Pit has a new DLC out on Steam for $1.99. It adds a new class and a couple other minor additions. 8 new monsters! 5 new armors! 19 new items! 13 new recipes! 13 new weapons! And a few minor bugfixes according to the changelog. Gonna grab it once it's out on GOG. I hope they also did a bit of balancing, but I doubt it. victrix posted:Does it add a 'holy poo poo crafting is awful' fix?
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Apr 26, 2014 14:15
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I can't get into FTL Advanced. Every time I start playing I make it to Sector 3 and I lose interest. Was I expecting too much from the update? Did I overdo playing classic mode by winning a victory on every ship? I'm sure the problem's with me and not update.
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