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a cartoon duck posted:On the other hand, if you get Nanami and consequently the Dragonsbane in chapter 2 it's a really nice power-boost. Plus I usually prefer using wands that don't have Great Magic so I can let mages in on PWS chains without worrying about breaking them, even when I end up with like a dozen Ether Scepters and never use more than one mage. I admit that I never use the ether/element scepters in battle. They get turned into a one-time-use "I don't want to deal with this encounter" item. Nanami is the 2nd of my three favorite mages (Yumei and one we haven't met yet), so I use her and Dragonsbane alot. Nanami: 
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Apr 30, 2014 17:20
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I prefer pretty much every other mage, I don't dislike Nanami, but she's merely 'ok', in a class type full of great characters who are all mechanically interchangeable. Her recruitment scene is ok I guess, but beyond it she's nothing special. Everyone else has either a better recruitment scene, or better animations, or in a few cases, both. That weapon you get with her afterwards is pretty awesome though, the Dragonsbane, if you can get it in Chapter 2 anyways. Penakoto fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 30, 2014 |
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Apr 30, 2014 17:26
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Yeah, I got the Dragonsbane in chapter 2, and my mage proceeded to auto-wipe every single non-boss encounter with one casting for the entire chapter.
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Apr 30, 2014 17:47
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Nanami's story isn't one of my favorites, but I think it gets the point across fairly well. And it ever-so-slightly develops Lenneth and her complicated relationship with humans.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:43
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Bloodly posted:Taking 'duty' to it's ultimate. Some would say 'way too far'. Some would say 'exactly as far as she should have'. Preservation demands she leave. Honour and her family demands she continue. I suppose that's what always bugs me. She has every right and opportunity to say gently caress duty and live a happy life as a normal girl, but her sense of obligation and duty drives her to perform a ritual that she's likely to fail anyway, and when Lenneth jumps in to help her, lets that same "duty" continue to drive her to sacrifice herself rather than take the out and return home. I mean, I know, Valkyrie Profile and all that, but the whole duty and sacrifice thing really gets me with this one. Nanami's wish is to complete the ritual and show that she can do it, but she lets the fact that she feels like she owes Minayo for "stealing" her place dictate her actions when presented with a choice. She says it herself that no, she doesn't want to die, but she doesn't place any value at all on her own wishes and happiness. All it takes is a single different choice on her part in this scenario and she gets to go home alive and well, and Minayo would've either been purged or cleansed and made the enherjar instead. One could probably compare this scenario to Lawfer's death as well, in that his self-sacrifice was also driven by his sense of duty and justice. While it probably would've been a break from her (slightly) established character to decide to take her own happiness, throwing it away entirely to allow her dead foster sister to take over her body and basically come back to life and replace her just always feels to me like she got completely screwed over and doesn't mind at all. That bugs me.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:20
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Nanami's sprite always has this creepy vacant smile. I guess it might contribute to her insincere cheerfulness in her scenes, but it really stands out more than other vacant expressions here.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:33
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I always kinda figured the whole incredibly self-sacrificing deal was some weird Japanese thing.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:59
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Here's my take on the whole Nanami thing: Nanami always feels indebted to Minayo, because of her parents raising her as her own. Despite that, she is always aware of the fact that she can't take Minayo's place, with the ascension ceremony's limits being a clear reminder of that. Which is why she is all the more determined to succeed in the ceremony - to prove that her foster parents' efforts aren't in vain, and that there are bonds stronger than blood. She doesn't want her parents to step in and go, 'No, you can't do it', she wants to establish her place in the family and to be treated like a true daughter. It's when Minayo's ghost appears that Nanami's character being separate from Minayo's comes out - Minayo's spirit is resentful of Nanami 'taking' her place, and while Nanami could be the same and deny her, she chooses to sacrifice herself to give Minayo her life back. It might not be the 'right' thing to do for her not to seek her own happiness first, but it's a very Nanami thing to do - that's what gives her her own place as Lenneth's Einherjar, rather than trying to replace Minayo's. Of course, now the tables are turned and Minayo has to act like Nanami for the rest of her life in front of her parents to keep up the act or admit that their daughter traded places with her to be an Einherjar. All that isn't really established because she's a side character and only gets so much development, but that's my personal view of the whole thing. That aside, I've always got a Mulan vibe from this story for some reason - especially the scene where Minayo presents the sword to her parents and her dad just goes 'screw the sword, I'm glad you're alive' and hugs her. 
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Apr 30, 2014 21:59
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I never thought of that last part, regarding Minayo having to pretend to be Nanami. I always figured her parents knew, but were 'ok' with what happened, for lack of a better word. But it makes sense, how willingly is up for debate considering she was a ghost, but Minayo essentially murdered Nanami so she could take her place, and the parents loved Nanami despite her not being their 'real' daughter. Even though Minayo is their 'real' daughter, they probably wouldn't accept her after what happened in the shrine, even if she explained that it was willing and Nanami ended up getting sent to Valhalla for it. ... Hmm, that makes me wonder, do the people on that island even believe in the same norse beliefs the rest of Midgard does? Would they believe her if she brought up Nanami getting chosen by a Valkyrie and getting sent to Valhalla, or do they have separate beliefs? Their culture is definitely completely different, so it'd make sense to not believe in the same gods or afterlife as the rest of the continent.
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Apr 30, 2014 23:23
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Well, she did mention she recognized Valkyrie and knew what her duty was.
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Apr 30, 2014 23:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:All that isn't really established because she's a side character and only gets so much development,
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May 1, 2014 00:28
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An abridged "Freya Hat" Yadayadayada at least it matches. However, since she already raided Freya's closet for one thing, she may as well correct another of her fashion faux pas  I'm seriously shocked that Freya's mini-dress has more coverage than Aelia's armor.
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May 1, 2014 00:45
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FredMSloniker posted:This is Valkyrie Profile's biggest flaw, in my opinion. The recruitment scenes are almost all too short and too cryptic. Heck, we've already seen one where you have to guess how they died! They really could have expanded these scenes. Well, this isn't their story.
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May 1, 2014 01:04
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FredMSloniker posted:This is Valkyrie Profile's biggest flaw, in my opinion. The recruitment scenes are almost all too short and too cryptic. Heck, we've already seen one where you have to guess how they died! They really could have expanded these scenes. Meanwhile, my biggest problem with VP2 (and there were tons of problems) were that the einherjar stories were limited to text boxes in their profiles. I need to know just how tragically my characters died, dammit!
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May 1, 2014 01:06
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vibratingsheep posted:Meanwhile, my biggest problem with VP2 (and there were tons of problems) were that the einherjar stories were limited to text boxes in their profiles. I need to know just how tragically my characters died, dammit! Might be the whole ambiguity thingie and having the player tie the story together by being more aware/attentive to your surroundings, like how we figured out Llewellyn's death. Or it might just be setting us up for an even more depressing story that they're going to shove at our face, full blast. 
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May 1, 2014 01:53
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FredMSloniker posted:This is Valkyrie Profile's biggest flaw, in my opinion. The recruitment scenes are almost all too short and too cryptic. Heck, we've already seen one where you have to guess how they died! They really could have expanded these scenes. Strangely enough, this is actually my favorite part of Valkyrie Profile. The game doesn't beat you over the head with anything. You just get to see each character in what is most likely the intense moment of their life, and you get a very high impact story in a very shot amount of time. To draw on my favorite arc, would Shiho and Suo's stories have been any better if the whole thing had been spelled out for us? We get just enough context to understand who they are, how they feel, and why they die, and that's exactly what makes their story so great. Of course, VP2 does take it a step too far. Reading between the lines is wonderful, but it's really hard to cross-reference a multitude of text boxes, especially when you can't see all of them in a single playthrough.
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May 1, 2014 02:28
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Penakoto posted:... Hmm, that makes me wonder, do the people on that island even believe in the same norse beliefs the rest of Midgard does? Would they believe her if she brought up Nanami getting chosen by a Valkyrie and getting sent to Valhalla, or do they have separate beliefs? Their culture is definitely completely different, so it'd make sense to not believe in the same gods or afterlife as the rest of the continent. I've always figured that mythology works a little different in a setting where people are literally eaten by ghouls and dragons and medusae. The citizens of Midgard my feel that the Gods are absent or indifferent or cruel but generally people recognize the Valkyrie if they see her.
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May 1, 2014 03:03
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I do wonder how Minayo died in the first place.
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May 1, 2014 03:08
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Bloodly posted:I do wonder how Minayo died in the first place. Perhaps a casualty of the civil war? It'd be interesting if she was an orphan from the other side of the war. Add a bit more justification for Minayo's wrath.
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May 1, 2014 03:19
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I do think the game could have stood to have more details with the Einherjar, but not during their recruitment. Those are juuust the right length. However, characters having more involved "I have some free periods, let's visit your hometown!" scenes or interactions between Einherjar (hi, Kashell, Lawfer, and Aelia) under certain circumstances would have been nice. Or, as some people have already noted, a more involved and less standardized Sacred Phase.
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May 1, 2014 03:56
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CmdrKing posted:I do think the game could have stood to have more details with the Einherjar, but not during their recruitment. Those are juuust the right length. However, characters having more involved "I have some free periods, let's visit your hometown!" scenes or interactions between Einherjar (hi, Kashell, Lawfer, and Aelia) under certain circumstances would have been nice. Or, as some people have already noted, a more involved and less standardized Sacred Phase. So basically, you're saying there should be a scene where we get to watch Celia crying at Kashell's grave.
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May 1, 2014 04:06
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inthesto posted:So basically, you're saying there should be a scene where we get to watch Celia crying at Kashell's grave. I kinda wish they'd gone full throttle with Celia and made her good friends with each and every Einjeriar you get (instead of just a solid chunk). It would be like tri-Ace to put in a running gag like that. Although I guess it's only a gag if you've got a dark sense of humor like me.
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May 1, 2014 04:12
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inthesto posted:So basically, you're saying there should be a scene where we get to watch Celia crying at Kashell's grave. Yeah pretty much.
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May 1, 2014 04:12
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I kinda wish they'd gone full throttle with Celia and made her good friends with each and every Einjeriar you get (instead of just a solid chunk). It would be like tri-Ace to put in a running gag like that. Although I guess it's only a gag if you've got a dark sense of humor like me. I think we've got enough of a running gag just by having the "Dead friends of Celia" counter to begin with. We don't need Tri-Ace's help.
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May 1, 2014 04:16
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ApplesandOranges posted:Of course, now the tables are turned and Minayo has to act like Nanami for the rest of her life in front of her parents to keep up the act or admit that their daughter traded places with her to be an Einherjar. I think it's actually ambiguous enough that her parents may know it's Minayo, and they're grieving Nanami.
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May 1, 2014 04:17
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FeyerbrandX posted:An abridged "Freya Hat" ...Is no one going to talk about how amazing this is? Because it is amazing.
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May 1, 2014 07:24
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Arp1033 posted:...Is no one going to talk about how amazing this is? Because it is amazing. I was, but you beat me to it. FeyerbrandX posted:An abridged "Freya Hat" It's I wish we knew what this ascension thing even was. Was she supposed to get the staff? Was she supposed to fight a ghost, only to accidentally stumble upon her dead sister. If it was for the scepter, why does she give it away so easily. What would her parents say to that.
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May 1, 2014 10:08
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Really, the thing that gets me most about Nanami is that she's recruited in the same town as Yumei, voiced by the same actress as Yumei, and is the exact same entirely interchangeable class as Yumei. In addition, due to how the recruits in chapters 2-4 are structured, you'll always get her within a chapter or two of recruiting Yumei, though it varies as to which one you get first. What I am saying is that Nanami is pretty much literally Yumei except without the awesome battle animations and/or being a mermaid.
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May 1, 2014 18:35
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KataraniSword posted:Really, the thing that gets me most about Nanami is that she's recruited in the same town as Yumei, voiced by the same actress as Yumei, and is the exact same entirely interchangeable class as Yumei. In addition, due to how the recruits in chapters 2-4 are structured, you'll always get her within a chapter or two of recruiting Yumei, though it varies as to which one you get first. Basically. With one exception, the oriental region of the world that Hai-Lan represents is more or less mage central in the same way that Crell gives you the archers and most of the fighters come out of the more central continent areas.
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May 1, 2014 18:58
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 Age: 25 Class: Adventurer/Spearwoman Race: Draconian Gender: Female Homeland: Gerabellum Whether by choice or by fate, the power of the Dragon Gem enables Aelia to transform into a dragon. However, she doesn't realize that such shape shifting, a form of Necromancy, robs her of her own identity. Aelia is our second and last Lancer/Spear(wo)man. As a fighter, Aelia is generally solid - she has Lawfer's adequate DME and STR, decent enough multipliers, and a strong PWS. Like Jun, her attacks can have slightly awkward hitboxes, but on the whole she's pretty decent. Her real flaw is being compared to Lawfer, who is on paper outright better, though your mileage may vary - I tend to prefer Aelia's attacks. Still, if you've sent him up or simply not like to use him, Aelia's a good enough replacement.  Age: 17 Class: Shrine Maiden/Sorceress Race: Human Gender: Female Homeland: Hai-Lan After both her parents died, she was adopted by a Shinto priest and chosen to inherit the shrine duties. Her upbringing has left her honest and self-sacrificing, but also fatalistic and resigned to the vicissitudes of fate. Nanami is our third Sorceress, and so there isn't that much to say about her. She joins at level 4, so she has a bit of catching up to do. Realistically she's identical to Jelanda/Yumei, except that she has Holy tolerance instead of Ice. I like her well enough, anyway.  We have a few new spells. Stone Torch transmutes into Poison Blow, and Lightning Bolt into Prismatic Missile. I teach Nanami both, as well as load her up with other spells. She starts with Fire Storm/Lightning Bolt/Normalize, which is an okay enough starting set.  Shops are updated again, and I invest in a Heart Piercer for Aelia. With two Lancers we might as well have a decent spear to go around. Lenneth already has this chapter's new bow from the Sacred Phase, and I also pick up an Ignite Sword for Arngrim - like the Elemental Edge it boosts PWS damage by 30% and is about on par with the Grand Sting, though it only has one attack.  It's also best to experiment with Aelia to find an attack configuration that works best for your combos. Which is one problem I have with VP's system - unlike CotP, you can't rearrange your attack order at your disposal.  We don't have a lot to do in Chapter 4, but we have a few dungeons to run.  The Black Dream Tower can be confusing to navigate. Without a walkthrough you might need to refer to the map a few times.  Enemies are also notably stronger. Lesser Demons appear, and possess a piledrive attack that hits the entire party for ~800 damage. Much to Nanami's chagrin til she gets a couple levels.  Grave Mists enjoy blocking, and hit hard. Their regular attack can end up dealing upwards of 3500 damage, and they also know Frigid Damsel. They should be taken out early if possible while they sit in the back row.  Harpies have a lot of health (6000) and can take a good amount of punishment. They also know Reflect Sorcery to mess with your mages.  The worst of the lot are Monstrous Glowflies. Like the Will-o'-the-Wisps, they explode when low on health, dealing lots of damage. Ether Scepter magic will take them out in a hurry, or a good PWS chain. They're weak to Dark, fortunately, and give up a good amount of experience.  Prismatic Missile is fairly strong, good hitboxes, and can deal random status ailments. It's unfortunate then that it's also the most expensive attack spell in the game, at a disgusting 10 CP. There are stronger, cheaper spells out there.  Poison Blow is a great spell - it ties for the second strongest spell, and as a menu spell it hits all enemies. Poison is a great status to inflict as well on opponents who can survive it. Its only real flaw is that it does only one hit.  Aelia has an oddball string of attacks, though they do look nice. Her spear throw (Sonic Edge) can hit enemies that have been pushed back. And now for a few PWS.  Nanami and Aelia PWS  Petro Disruption (Poison Blow) and Gravity Blessing (Primsatic Missile) have the same power here, and are the same strength as Carnage Anthem. There are better choices for Great Magic.  Aelia's PWS is powerful, tying with Belenus in terms of strength. It's got a sweet animation, though after the first few times it actually starts to wear on.   How unskilled these beasts are...Nanami gains levels pretty quickly in here.  Early on is a copy of Auto Item (we also got a copy from the Sacred Phase). Auto Item is a great passive skill where you can have characters automatically use an item when they can be used. As one might expect, Union Plumes are a great priority for that, and with Guts in play it can be very hard to get completely decimated.  I actually switch to Shadow Servant - Poison Blow is stronger, but Nanami is one-shotting everything but Harpies anyway, and the extra hits occasionally net a crystal or treasure chest.   I have drawn daikichi; excellent fortune! There are many very similar hallways in the Tower. That said, the only treasure you really have to go out of your way for is Auto Item if you don't have it.  There are quite a few flying enemies and platforms. There's a tricky bit where you enter a door and immediately start falling, possibly right into a Harpy.  Reflect Sorcery is annoying, but fortunately it doesn't seem to throw an Ether Scepter-boosted hit right back at your mage. (Also, Nanami's familar is a dove rather than a cockatiel.)  I have drawn chukichi; good fortune. This door here (though it doesn't look different than any other door), drops you right into a screen where you have to hang left to avoid falling to the bottom (possibly into an enemy). You can still get up from the bottom (and you'll have to get down there to pick up skills anyway), but it can be a surprising thing the first go around.  If you're successful, you'll land right by a booby trapped chest with a Quartz Gem.  On the bottom is a chest with Hit (useless mostly).  From there, jump up two platforms and build a crystal stack to jump to the next one.  After that, jump onto a rope, jump off it to another platform, then climb up and leap across platforms to get out of this screen.  We picked up two new skills for Sorcerers. Adept Illusion increases their dodging chance. Dancing Sword activates when they dodge and hits the enemy that missed for light damage. However, it uses up their following turn and there are easily better skills out there (Guts, First Aid, Cure Condition, Auto Item).  Eventually, save point and boss time.   You have come for me? I who have sworn loyalty to Lord Odin? Do not seek to make a fool of me, defiler of souls. I do not defile souls! I killed people and buried them in the walls because it was the will of Lord Odin! Well, send me to Asgard! Foolish mortal... You believe the Lord of the Gods would desire such a thing! But...! this messenger of the gods...! Demon, you say? What do you mean-?!   B, but I... Hmph. He was a useful tool... What a sad waste... Oh well. I shall have to find another as soon as I defeat you, Battle-Maiden.  Here's our first legitimately possibly tough boss battle. We're up against a Dragon-Tooth Warrior and a Wise (?) Sorcerer in the back, who's apparently thrown up his hands and gone 'welp, guess I'm doomed either way, throwing my lot in with the demon'.  killing the beast or we may do something irrevocable...This battle introduces a new mechanic - possession. If we kill the Warrior before the Sorcerer, he'll 'possess' the Sorcerer, healing it to full life and doubling its stats, making it very dangerous to fight. Obviously, we want to take out the Sorcerer first.  The Warrior has a physical attack and a weaker version of the Ram Guardian's Advanced Sword X, both dealing about 3000 damage.  The Sorcerer, as expected, comes with a bevy of offensive spells, though his favourite is Dark Savior, hitting for about 4500.  His worst attack is Fiendish Shape, which hits the entire party hard. This is one reason you don't want to silence Sorcerer enemies with Noise Arrow, as they will then use this every turn. My first attempt (with 3 Mages) didn't go so well, since I'd underestimated how squishy they are. Take two, with Nanami, Yumei, and Arngrim.  First things first, Heal up from the initial barrage of attacks.  The girls plink at the Sorcerer while Arngrim tosses Union Plumes and occasionally smacks the Warrior.    Guts is a beautiful, beautiful thing.  When the Sorcerer is finally dead, things are much easier. The Warrior is still tough, but he can only kill one unit at a time, and most characters outside of Sorcerers can take a couple of his hits.  Which is good because we're not exactly in a great shape right now.  Luckily, like the Ram Guardian, he can be Frozen.   And done.  Oh dear... I have drawn dai-kyo; terrible fortune.I just find Nanami's win quotes entertaining.  We also get a couple treasure drops. Breastplate's a nice armour upgrade. Holy Relics might come in useful eventually, for now they'll just sit in the inventory.    The Bewitching Statue can be transmuted into a Gem of Activity, an accessory which increases gems dropped. The Fairy Bottle can be transmuted into a Gem of Creation, which increases crystals dropped.   One of three dungeons done for this chapter! Sacred Phase Here's Freya's request: Hero Value 80, Negotiator, Trick, Demon Int, Hear Noise None of the skills needed are unique this time - anyone, with the obvious exception of Arngrim, can meet the requirement, so we have quite a few choices:        Quite a selection, so vote away! ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 00:59 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 18:34
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One asks how Nanami counts as 'cowardly'.
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May 2, 2014 18:55
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Bloodly posted:One asks how Nanami counts as 'cowardly'. One suspects translation artifact. Perhaps 'demure' or 'timid' was a better translation (this one speaks no japanese and has no access to the untranslated version, so one can only conjecture); both traits were considered proper for the culture Nanami is meant to be part of, but would not be considered virtuous amongs the Vikings or the Aesir they worship.
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May 2, 2014 19:00
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Have you not showed off the map yet? The dungeon maps in this game are really really nice, a rare sight in dungeon-delving games. Also will we get a tour of the world map at some point? Like the cities that there are, and a certain point of the map, which is sadly, unenterable.
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May 2, 2014 19:04
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DmitriX posted:Have you not showed off the map yet? The dungeon maps in this game are really really nice, a rare sight in dungeon-delving games. The maps can be really good, but sometimes (like Lezard's Tower  ) huge portions of the map can be obscured.
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May 2, 2014 19:29
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ApplesandOranges posted:
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May 2, 2014 19:48
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Jelanda certainly has the makings of a great negotiator
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May 2, 2014 22:23
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I've always found that "Wise Sorceror" exceptionally comical. What do you mean I can't murder people and use them as mortar? quote:Miacis fucked around with this message at 00:06 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 00:04
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Miacis posted:Aelia's Sonic Edge is kinda annoying. She will often throw her spear right past the enemy (like she did there) if she's in close combat. It would work better as a first attack, but then you lose a lot of guard crushing power... I find that usually waiting half a second to let the character take a short hop backwards before attacking again usually fixes the problem some characters have with being too close to hit enemies. It can get a bit complicated though when juggling three different characters, so yeah, I prefer sticking with characters that basically hit at every range.
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May 3, 2014 00:45
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I generally send up Jelanda early because all mages are interchangeable and I like the others better, but I'm gonna go for something different and vote for Yumei so I can see what she does in Valhalla.
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May 3, 2014 01:50
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As rad as the "gently caress you I'm a dragon" SC may be, it bugs me that it has no animation. Like, three frames for wing flapping would have been sufficient! It's not as if they've skimped out on any of the others...ApplesandOranges posted:
Yes. Yes I do. What of it 
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