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debian is free of deadline and budget constraints which means they can spend infinite energy on wankery. unsurprisingly this leads to them developing absolutely nothing.
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May 5, 2014 06:49
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yet debian remains what i expect it to be which is less of a shitpile than most
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May 5, 2014 07:19
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2014 is the year of the debian on the ui
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May 5, 2014 07:27
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Suspicious Dish posted:Debian still ships my software with patches that are broken. I still get bug reports upstream for crashes that those patches cause upstream, and I have personally asked the maintainers of the packages to remove their patches many times over. I do not like shipping broken software to users, and it's extremely exhausting to have to explain to users that it's out of my control. I spent quite a long time trying to get into Debian "official" but there was already a (bad) maintainer and I just sorta gave up on it. Ubuntu then started to exist and I got welcomed with open arms. There's a reason Ubuntu's Wine packages are well maintained and Debian's aren't. It's just a lot simpler and nicer to contribute to Ubuntu, and we get poo poo done. I think another good story to tell here would be the multiarch transition. It was in a stable Ubuntu release about a year and a half before Debian, cause we actually could just knuckle down and do it for our versions of packages. It would take that year and a half for our patches to slowly filter their way back into Debian and for a proper multi-arch release to come out. Multi-arch is something Wine very much needs, so it gave me yet another reason to basically ignore Debian for a year. I don't have too many excuses to not actually make Debian versions of my packages left, though, especially with SteamOS. But man it'll be an extra hassle (Debian doesn't even have a PPA system like launchpad does...the closest is a service provided by OpenSuSE of all things).
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May 5, 2014 08:33
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rhel is the only linux that matters fyi remains a bit of a mystery why rh has a bunch of x and other gui devs on staff, seems like p. dubious business
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May 5, 2014 09:57
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We have and sell a desktop and workstation SKUs which turn a profit.
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May 5, 2014 14:11
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Why we hired Rob Clark, the guy working on freedreno? I have no idea. That's never going to ship in any of our products, ever. He doesn't know either. But it's fun while it lasts!
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May 5, 2014 14:11
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Suspicious Dish posted:We have and sell a desktop and workstation SKUs which turn a profit. eh, im sure, but it certainly isnt the bread and butter, and seems a distraction. rh has money and market dominance though, they can afford to play around with theories if desktop linux, just seems a so-so bet to me
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May 5, 2014 15:54
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work on desktop stuff is often transferrable to server stuff and vice versa
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May 5, 2014 15:56
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ShadowHawk posted:I spent quite a long time trying to get into Debian "official" but there was already a (bad) maintainer and I just sorta gave up on it. Ubuntu then started to exist and I got welcomed with open arms. There's a reason Ubuntu's Wine packages are well maintained and Debian's aren't. It's just a lot simpler and nicer to contribute to Ubuntu, and we get poo poo done. debian's wine maintainer conformed to policy and paid attention to mailing lists. you ignored all that inconvenient stuff and poo poo out totally monolithic packages with a thousand dependencies. shocking that they did not welcome you with open arms
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May 5, 2014 16:48
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it's ok to hate the process. it's not ok to pretend there is no process because you hate it
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May 5, 2014 16:50
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Progressive JPEG posted:work on desktop stuff is often transferrable to server stuff and vice versa Yep. systemd came from the desktop team. Two of the projects from Project Atomic came from the desktop team (Cockpit and OSTree).
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May 5, 2014 16:51
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:debian's wine maintainer conformed to policy and paid attention to mailing lists. you ignored all that inconvenient stuff and poo poo out totally monolithic packages with a thousand dependencies. But ShadowHawk shipped working software, and the Debian Wine maintainer did not. The entire point of the Debian project is to ship working software. What's the point in the policy and politics if they don't achieve the goal of shipping working software?
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May 5, 2014 16:52
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Suspicious Dish posted:But ShadowHawk shipped working software, and the Debian Wine maintainer did not. they did, and do, ship just not as fast as shadowhawk may have liked
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May 5, 2014 16:55
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:they did, and do, ship ShadowHawk posted:Debian was so bad that Wine was just telling users to build from source.
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May 5, 2014 16:57
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I'm going by ShadowHawk's account here, but Wine was apparently telling Debian users that the packages were broken and not to use them. Debian isn't shipping working software.
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May 5, 2014 16:58
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Suspicious Dish posted:Yep. systemd came from the desktop team. Two of the projects from Project Atomic came from the desktop team (Cockpit and OSTree). Isn't this basically just CoreOS except Red Hat can charge people money for (support on) it?
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May 5, 2014 17:04
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CoreOS and Project Atomic are competitors, yep, but I think Project Atomic has better technology under it. The technology under Project Atomic has actually been in development for 5 years now for other things, and now we're grouping them into this new OS we're building. I will admit it's sort of a shallow, quick attempt to catch up to the rest of the world, though.
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May 5, 2014 17:07
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Suspicious Dish posted:I'm going by Shadow-"nerd coop"-Hawk's account here, but Wine was apparently telling Debian users that the packages were broken and not to use them. Debian isn't shipping working software.
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May 5, 2014 17:59
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:debian's wine maintainer conformed to policy and paid attention to mailing lists. you ignored all that inconvenient stuff and poo poo out totally monolithic packages with a thousand dependencies. Debian's more of a loose confederation of package maintainers running their own fiefdoms than a coherent system.
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May 5, 2014 22:01
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good package maintenance is important if you expect others to make use of it
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May 5, 2014 22:12
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ShadowHawk posted:Uh, no, Debian's Wine maintainer shipped a broken package split into dozens of chunks based on 1.5 year old Wine releases. He also worked for Transgaming who were direct competitors with free Wine. I asked in IRC if someone could do a non-maintainer upload of a new package on my behalf and got a rather cold reception, especially since I didn't have maintainer gatekeeper approval. Sounds like the appropriate result was achieved here tbqh
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May 5, 2014 22:35
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api call girl posted:Sounds like the appropriate result was achieved here tbqh
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May 7, 2014 00:06
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ShadowHawk posted:Debian's Wine maintainer shipped a broken package split into dozens of chunks
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May 7, 2014 00:07
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Yes. As we said, the policy makes things ship broken software.
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May 7, 2014 00:11
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what policy lead to the 4960 texlive packages in fedora?
pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 00:16 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 00:13
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pseudorandom name posted:what policy lead to the 4960 texlive packages in fedora? the policy that distributions should do all packaging together with a pretty vibrant software platform which has a huge set of packages itself, which would make for a huge and unwieldy megapackage if you just put them all together on windows miktex unsurprisingly pull the packages from ctan as needed, which gets you a relatively small but arbitrary subset of the packages over time
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May 7, 2014 07:03
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pseudorandom name posted:what policy lead to the 4960 texlive packages in fedora? tex is just a festering boil that has been allowed to ferment for forty years and decided to evacuate itself all over your package manager
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May 7, 2014 07:38
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ii oh el posted:tex is just a festering boil that has been allowed to ferment for forty years and decided to evacuate itself all over your package manager same except all linux package repos and the philosophy surrounding them ctan is a loving monument of quality in comparison
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May 7, 2014 08:57
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it's called os x
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May 7, 2014 16:18
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ii oh el posted:tex is just a festering boil that has been allowed to ferment for forty years and decided to evacuate itself all over your package manager
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May 7, 2014 18:07
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gnome3 apparently hides the battery status when the laptop is plugged in i guess nobody ever cared about knowing whether/when the battery is recharged or nobody ever used linux on a laptop because lol
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May 19, 2014 06:13
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No it doesn't. It should show a "Recharging" in the status menu, and show an icon. What that means is that somehow your battery got flat out removed from the device tree when you plugged your power cord in.
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May 19, 2014 06:18
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 unplugged plugged in
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May 19, 2014 06:18
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meanwhile shows up as charging in the power settings
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May 19, 2014 06:21
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linuxed again
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May 19, 2014 06:53
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ubuntu 14.04 somehow gives me worse battery life than win 8.1, even with the cpu priority set to powersaving
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May 19, 2014 06:54
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saucepanman posted:ubuntu 14.04 somehow gives me worse battery life than win 8.1, even with the cpu priority set to powersaving stop using ubuntu good choices: fedora, debian middlin' choices: centOS bad choices: arch loving lol you moron: ubuntu
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May 19, 2014 16:18
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As someone who spends about 90% of his development time cleaning up Debian-inherited messes, I seriously don't understand the endorsement for it that keeps getting cargo-culted around here. The whole point of Ubuntu was to polish up Debian and release it on a regular basis, and it still does that. If you're saying to stay away from Ubuntu cause you don't like the default desktop and don't want to install a different one but can somehow manage the debian install process that forces you to then lol
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May 19, 2014 17:35
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ShadowHawk posted:As someone who spends about 90% of his development time cleaning up Debian-inherited messes, I seriously don't understand the endorsement for it that keeps getting cargo-culted around here. The whole point of Ubuntu was to polish up Debian and release it on a regular basis, and it still does that. i believe he hates ubuntu because they don't do a lot of testing of their packages before releasing them, and the stability suffers
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May 19, 2014 17:38
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