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Neat, but cars only being able to turn right after leaving a plot was something that caused a lot of anger over in the sc2013 thread if I remember correctly. That solution to the time passing is probably the best way to go about it. It reminds me a little of how Europa 1400 The Guild solved it. Way back when that game was made they had day/nigh cycle, seasonal changes and years all combined. It worked like this, Day 1, spring 1400 Day 2, summer 1401 Day 3, autumn 1402 and so on.
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# ? May 7, 2014 10:46 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 11:49 |
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That is an interesting solution for time, to be sure. What will you do when things cost money? Have cash flow determined seasonally?
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# ? May 7, 2014 11:00 |
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Eesh, right turns only? I hope that's temporary. Only divided boulevards should prevent cars from turning left into a home or business.
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# ? May 7, 2014 13:52 |
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Banemaster posted:Good compromise would be that when city is starting, player has to make a major road from edge of map to another. This way there is something to build the city around, but player can still decide where the road goes. I think this is a good result of the discussion. Baronjutter posted:So what you're saying is that time is a 4-season cube? Exactly. I guess. VostokProgram posted:That is an interesting solution for time, to be sure. What will you do when things cost money? Have cash flow determined seasonally? I think it will be immediate, i.e. citizen goes to work, gets money, later goes shopping, shop gets money. Iunnrais posted:Eesh, right turns only? I hope that's temporary. Only divided boulevards should prevent cars from turning left into a home or business. Yes, I know, I know. It's only temporary. I didn't have time to add crossing the road from a plot and it would have been a waste since I will redo the road system now anyways.
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# ? May 7, 2014 13:56 |
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Anselm, you're doing great work and it's really cool to see your progress. I have no idea how you can handle all the backseat driving that goes on around your project though. There's some good discussion (like this thread has shown) but I really hope you don't get bogged down with Dear Mr Anselm, you need a pause button. Dear Mr Anselm, I think the buildings shouldn't just pop up instantly. Dear Mr Anselm, will there be police chases through the city? I'm not trying to be mean, just want to give you kudos on how you're handling a very enthusiastic community
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# ? May 7, 2014 17:15 |
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heap posted:Anselm, you're doing great work and it's really cool to see your progress. Interesting point, let me elaborate on that. This backseat driving is actually what surprised me most about the community (it's not like I have any experience with this). These "stupid" questions can be pretty annoying, but I think I'm beginning to understand where they come from. I think it has to do with people not being used to seeing something as complicated as a game at a very early stage. Maybe most people aren't even familiar with the process of creation at all (we live in a mostly-consumer society after all). So these questions are their idea of contribution. It just means that they care so much about what they saw, that they want to be a part of it, even if it just means giving their opinion. Framing it like this helps me to stay patient and even to appreciate these kinds of comments.
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# ? May 7, 2014 23:31 |
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anselm_eickhoff posted:I think it has to do with people not being used to seeing something as complicated as a game at a very early stage. Maybe most people aren't even familiar with the process of creation at all (we live in a mostly-consumer society after all). This part is actually pretty loving awesome to me. Like most 90s kids, I thought I wanted to grow up and make videogames for a living but was also completely floored by the reality in the industry (to the point where I never even tried, gently caress all that noise). That being said, I'm still all kinds of curious about and interested in what game development is actually like. This is a pretty neat way for me to learn about at least this one creative process, and it requires basically zero effort on my part! anselm_eickhoff posted:Framing it like this helps me to stay patient and even to appreciate these kinds of comments. Your remarkably levelheaded approach to basically everything involved in Citybound is basically awesome.
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# ? May 8, 2014 01:16 |
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LonsomeSon posted:Your remarkably levelheaded approach to basically everything involved in Citybound is basically awesome.
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# ? May 8, 2014 04:06 |
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The fact that you can read through my ridiculous mega-posts shows amazing patience.
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# ? May 8, 2014 16:10 |
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New update, everyone!
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# ? May 14, 2014 02:58 |
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This maybe is what you were referring to when you mentioned dozen of tools that only intersection nerds would like, but do you have plans to let the player manage traffic stuff like the placement of traffic lights on certain intersections, set the speed of streets, and things like that?
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# ? May 14, 2014 03:20 |
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Dude that looks amazing. Never thought I'd get this excited about spaghetti. As you said some automatic junctions would be good, and maybe some kind of circle tool for creating nice neat roundabouts?
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# ? May 14, 2014 03:33 |
Oh wow. That looks incredibly simple, and incredibly powerful. A combination that usually indicates something has been done right.Tytan posted:Dude that looks amazing. Never thought I'd get this excited about spaghetti. As you said some automatic junctions would be good, and maybe some kind of circle tool for creating nice neat roundabouts? Edit: I want to make a city of entirely one lane twisty roads, adding new ones carefully around buildings only as traffic demands- a perfectly functional city that no human would be able to navigate in real life without going mad. Eiba fucked around with this message at 03:50 on May 14, 2014 |
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# ? May 14, 2014 03:47 |
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Eiba posted:Oh wow. That looks incredibly simple, and incredibly powerful. A combination that usually indicates something has been done right.
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# ? May 14, 2014 07:22 |
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I am really impressed with that lane system! I wonder if anyone has approached you with job offers yet.
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# ? May 14, 2014 09:36 |
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I am excited for this game. However I want to recreate my town right down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) Is it possible to do this?
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# ? May 14, 2014 09:49 |
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All of these videos make me go :3 I need to go to sleep with these playing, would surely relax me better.
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# ? May 14, 2014 09:55 |
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Anselm, I don't know how you make progress with this so fast while reading and responding everyone's city game diatribes at the same time. It's looking great, keep it up. Just don't get burnt out.
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# ? May 14, 2014 10:10 |
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Supeerme posted:I am excited for this game. However I want to recreate my town right down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) Now I understand why the only people I have met from Hemel Hempstead used a helicopter for work.
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# ? May 14, 2014 11:25 |
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I am... impressed. That seems to be the sexiest road tool I've seen. Good to see you're on the road to success.
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# ? May 14, 2014 12:33 |
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That looks really cool. Will you make it so that you can actually enter a first person perspective too and walk around your city?
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# ? May 14, 2014 12:44 |
Just make sure you can build an SPUI. Supposedly traffic engineers love those. Meanwhile, please don't build any more cloverleafs, they have giant weaving problems!
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# ? May 14, 2014 12:54 |
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That is a fantastic road tool. I hope the intersectional AI won't be too tricky, particularly for multi-lane traffic lights (how many left turn only lanes, how many left turn or straight lanes, how many straight only lanes, etc). A lane based traffic system like this is admittedly a good use for agents, as much as I keep harping on how I don't like them. Can you put nodal points in the middle of an already built road? I wonder what would be an easy interface for overpass/underpasses? Maybe something like hold shift or alt? But how would you do multi-level overpasses, like the Baltimore I-695/I-70 junction? (I always thought that one was a thing of beauty)
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# ? May 14, 2014 13:49 |
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Any chance that the road tool will have a way to start with 2/4/6/etc lanes when initially laid down? I like that you can add or subtract lanes at a whim, but I just know the ability to start at 4 or 6 or whatever is going to be a quality of life thing that I'll continually be hoping for.
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:18 |
zxqv8 posted:Any chance that the road tool will have a way to start with 2/4/6/etc lanes when initially laid down? I like that you can add or subtract lanes at a whim, but I just know the ability to start at 4 or 6 or whatever is going to be a quality of life thing that I'll continually be hoping for. That, and probably also having some fixed spacing between lanes in different direction (maybe as "dead" lanes that contain nothing but grass). And let players make lanes that run in the "wrong" direction if they really want. Hopefully there will be a way for mods to have intersection templates or generators, for making quick standardized roundabouts, highway interchanges, road/highway onramp systems etc.
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:32 |
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Yeah, that looks like a great start, but I think it needs to be fleshed out. Watching you use it, it appeared to be really fiddly, requiring a lot of very precise mousing, deleting pieces and starting over, breaking up your road into segments ahead of time based on your planned construction, etc. I'm sure you're aware of all that, just thought I'd share my impressions. e: Some specific feedback - instead of drawing all the lanes manually, I can imagine cases where it would be much easier and more convenient to be able to select a length of road, and then just click an "add lane" button a couple times. Supraluminal fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 14, 2014 |
# ? May 14, 2014 15:35 |
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Note: I think the majority of us here are "intersection nerds".
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:35 |
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Has anyone ever seen and/or will we be able to make this? https://goo.gl/maps/TlVXd It's two lanes each way that cross one another with stop lights. There's no actual satellite image of it yet, but I work right near it and have no idea what the name of such an intersection is. The tool presented seems like it might make this possible.
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:45 |
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zxqv8 posted:Has anyone ever seen and/or will we be able to make this? That's a Diverging Diamond intersection
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:52 |
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That's a good start for a tool to get really fiddly with roads, but that's something the average user is going to find a little too fiddly. If I want a 4 lane road with wide sidewalks and a treed boulevard I don't want to have to manually lay down those elements every time. I want to just click on a road tool, click on the "4 lane boulevard" tool and lay down some roads. At the same time I'm not a traffic engineer but I know there's a lot of "correct" styles of highway junctions. I just want to click a button, junctions, and plop down a cloverleaf. Now it's rad to be able to then fiddle with these pre-set items. Maybe the terrain means one "lobe" of my cloverleaf needs to be a bit funny shaped, that's where the tool comes in. Or if I want to design something very custom my self of course. But for "day to day" road building I really hope you give us a good simcity style of presets. Fiddling with each and every road from scratch and having to eye-ball all the geometry would really turn me off. Another cool idea would be to select an area of roads and save it as a pre-set. So maybe you designed a really weird interchange but want to exactly reproduce it 10 more times and don't want to spend 10 min trying to draw it exactly the same every time. Or you see a bunch of nerds online made a bunch of realistic intersections and saved them as presets to share. And for the roads them selves I'd much rather have one of those sort of street cross-section view tools to design my pre-set roads. Obviously have a tool like yours to then tweak situations in-game, but give us some standard pre-sets. Also how are you going to differentiate between different speeds? A 4 lane avenue is very different from a 4 lane highway. Heck a highway shouldn't even be able to have buildings along it. Once again I think we'll need some hard-coded presets for things like "freeways" and "city road" and "lane". What about things like dirt country roads? Or super low-speed shared roads where cars can't go faster than bikes?
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# ? May 14, 2014 15:57 |
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Baronjutter posted:That's a good start for a tool to get really fiddly with roads, but that's something the average user is going to find a little too fiddly. If I want a 4 lane road with wide sidewalks and a treed boulevard I don't want to have to manually lay down those elements every time. I want to just click on a road tool, click on the "4 lane boulevard" tool and lay down some roads. At the same time I'm not a traffic engineer but I know there's a lot of "correct" styles of highway junctions. I just want to click a button, junctions, and plop down a cloverleaf. This is the crux of what I was trying to say above. It looks like fun to be able to do super-detailed stuff with individual lanes every once in a while, but probably 95% of the time I just want to plop stuff down and get on with the game.
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# ? May 14, 2014 16:29 |
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anselm_eickhoff posted:These "stupid" questions can be pretty annoying, but I think I'm beginning to understand where they come from.
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# ? May 14, 2014 17:14 |
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HardDisk posted:This maybe is what you were referring to when you mentioned dozen of tools that only intersection nerds would like, but do you have plans to let the player manage traffic stuff like the placement of traffic lights on certain intersections, set the speed of streets, and things like that? Yes, all of this will be handled automatic-by-default, manual-when-desired. Eiba posted:Rather than a circle tool, I think a nice grid overlay (one you could rotate and move around) would give you what you need. As long as all your ramps start in the same places, your interchange will be nice and symmetrically rounded. There will be geometrical helpers. Guidelines, maybe grids. Phrosphor posted:I wonder if anyone has approached you with job offers yet. In what way do you mean? Supeerme posted:I am excited for this game. However I want to recreate my town right down to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) Yes, it will be. Shibawanko posted:That looks really cool. Will you make it so that you can actually enter a first person perspective too and walk around your city? Maybe in the very far future. nielsm posted:Just make sure you can build an SPUI. Supposedly traffic engineers love those. Haha, I looked forward to traffic engineer snobism Iunnrais posted:But how would you do multi-level overpasses, like the Baltimore junction? You will be able to freely adjust the height of end-points, ramps, bridges, trenches and tunnels will be created as needed. zxqv8 posted:Any chance that the road tool will have a way to start with 2/4/6/etc lanes when initially laid down? I like that you can add or subtract lanes at a whim, but I just know the ability to start at 4 or 6 or whatever is going to be a quality of life thing that I'll continually be hoping for. Yep, I'll add something like that. nielsm posted:That, and probably also having some fixed spacing between lanes in different direction (maybe as "dead" lanes that contain nothing but grass). And let players make lanes that run in the "wrong" direction if they really want. Hopefully there will be a way for mods to have intersection templates or generators, for making quick standardized roundabouts, highway interchanges, road/highway onramp systems etc. Yes, there will be median lanes and intersection generators that you can mod. Baronjutter posted:That's a good start for a tool to get really fiddly with roads, but that's something the average user is going to find a little too fiddly. If I want a 4 lane road with wide sidewalks and a treed boulevard I don't want to have to manually lay down those elements every time. I want to just click on a road tool, click on the "4 lane boulevard" tool and lay down some roads. At the same time I'm not a traffic engineer but I know there's a lot of "correct" styles of highway junctions. I just want to click a button, junctions, and plop down a cloverleaf. With the planned road templates and intersection generators that should all be possible. Baronjutter posted:Another cool idea would be to select an area of roads and save it as a pre-set. So maybe you designed a really weird interchange but want to exactly reproduce it 10 more times and don't want to spend 10 min trying to draw it exactly the same every time. Or you see a bunch of nerds online made a bunch of realistic intersections and saved them as presets to share. That could be a simple mod. Baronjutter posted:Also how are you going to differentiate between different speeds? A 4 lane avenue is very different from a 4 lane highway. Heck a highway shouldn't even be able to have buildings along it. Once again I think we'll need some hard-coded presets for things like "freeways" and "city road" and "lane". What about things like dirt country roads? Or super low-speed shared roads where cars can't go faster than bikes? I think you will be able to just toggle the road/lane type and it will propagate its type to new connected roads/lanes.
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# ? May 14, 2014 22:55 |
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So we're getting presets, intersection generation with options, and different types of lanes, perfect. Also I really really hope we can do dutch style fully separated bike infra. I also hope pedestrians are not ignored and we can determine how wide sidewalks are, or at least have a few different types/widths. Sidewalks can get just as jammed as roads can, designing areas for good pedestrian flow can be very important. That busy shopping high street with a subway entrance is going to need a good 12m wide sidewalk. I also hope pedestrians flow more freely than cars. Less constrained by paths and more free-roaming. I think the first Cities in Motion handled this nicely. Roads had sidewalks but pedestrians were like a gas, they'd simply flow through every crack. They'd cut through the field, they'd go through the building's parking lot. They didn't care about pre-set paths but would simply freely path anywhere they could walk, be it an official sidewalk or just a gap between two buildings. They'd also cross streets just about anywhere they could get away with it, only using crosswalks if there was one near enough. Basically they acted like real pedestrians rather than "tiny cars". Bikes are an interesting half way point. They mostly follow official paths like cars do, specially if you have good cycle infra, but they can and do often take creative and unofficial shortcuts. And all they have to do is hop off their bike and walk it and they are instantly a pedestrian with all the flexibility that entails. Check out this guy's youtube for some bike infra inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWHFLiPIMEo
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# ? May 14, 2014 23:09 |
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From your whole "delete a big section so that I put down to halves to have a break in the middle" you should add the ability to just split a chunk of road into two chunks.
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# ? May 15, 2014 19:10 |
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You better watch your back Anselm, a new challenger appears! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/361428954/city-simulation-game-made-immensely-more-realistic
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# ? May 16, 2014 15:55 |
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Ohhh god the people in the video. Watch the video.
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# ? May 16, 2014 16:02 |
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I only watched some of that video and all I got from it was the people in the video looked like basement dwelling nerdlings and they care a lot about bike lanes and "vacuum tube rail" or something! I wasn't sure if they were making a city builder or a statement.
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# ? May 16, 2014 16:12 |
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More disconcerting, it seems like they're intending to still use a grid system and mention using puzzle pieces like in NAM for stuff like the bike paths.
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# ? May 16, 2014 16:16 |
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# ? Apr 18, 2024 11:49 |
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Will you eventually have accidents/breakdowns or similar failures in the transport network? This might sound a kind of pointless frivolity, but I guess it's interesting to me since it's kind of the industry I work in. It's really interesting to see the difference between a well designed and a poorly designed road network when it comes to routing around and recovering from a problem.
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# ? May 16, 2014 16:55 |