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massive spider posted:If you've got a really cool and interesting Louie topic thats being drowned out lets hear it. Literally anything else but pages of debate over fat acceptance or fat shaming or comparing being fat to being gay/religious/of a certain race.
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May 14, 2014 16:25
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The whole time I was watching that episode, all I could think was "poo poo, this is going to ruin the Louie thread."
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May 14, 2014 16:44
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Red posted:Literally anything else but pages of debate over fat acceptance or fat shaming or comparing being fat to being gay/religious/of a certain race. Okay. As he said, let's hear it.
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May 14, 2014 16:47
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beanieson posted:Was that loving Edward Burns sitting at the booth in the comedy club? You see him for all of a second when the chubby waitress is not recommending the sangria because of all the sex they'll have if they drink it.
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May 14, 2014 17:08
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Breadallelogram posted:Okay. As he said, let's hear it. Can anyone recap the episode where Bobby and Louie meet their mother for a meal, and she decides she's Lesbian? I remember being mesmerized by the exchange, but now I can't recall it at all, especially Bobby's reaction. And am I right in remembering they've depicted his mother in conflicting ways? Besides that episode, where she comes off looking really dumb, I feel like Louie has the childhood flashback to his mom telling him about religion, and she comes off as being pretty wise.
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May 14, 2014 17:30
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Red posted:Can anyone recap the episode where Bobby and Louie meet their mother for a meal, and she decides she's Lesbian? I remember being mesmerized by the exchange, but now I can't recall it at all, especially Bobby's reaction. When you're a kid your parents seem wise, but as you grow up you realize that they're just as vapid as everyone else. Maybe that explains the discrepancies?
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May 14, 2014 17:34
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The show does not have plot continuity. He seems to like his mom IRL for what it's worth so she probably is more like religion mom than lesbian mom.Red posted:Can anyone recap the episode where Bobby and Louie meet their mother for a meal, and she decides she's Lesbian? I remember being mesmerized by the exchange, but now I can't recall it at all, especially Bobby's reaction. EDIT: Also want to say that so far this season has been a huge improvement over S3. Time off good! No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 17:40
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Darko posted:The issue with the rant is that it kept subject-jumping, making it hard to button down to a single thing that can be agreed with or not. As such, it is very real life rant-like, but it also means that some points may be more poignant than others. There is no singular point of the whole speech; it makes around 4 different statements in it; some better than others. While this is true, the core statement was about the treatment of women, not fat people. But everyone here was making it into solely an issue on being overweight vs. being fit, which was a statement covered in that monologue but not the main one. At best it was a secondary concern, the primary one was inequality of the sexes.
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May 14, 2014 17:44
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No Wave posted:Bobby gets really upset at the idea of his parents divorcing (I think) and wants to hear from his mom that she loves him, and she refuses saying that she won't be bullied. Illinois Smith fucked around with this message at 18:01 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 17:55
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King Vidiot posted:While this is true, the core statement was about the treatment of women, not fat people. But everyone here was making it into solely an issue on being overweight vs. being fit, which was a statement covered in that monologue but not the main one. At best it was a secondary concern, the primary one was inequality of the sexes. And the thing that we're missing - if (as the show implies) girls are attracted to guys based on more factors than weight, then they're probably overlooking guys who lack those other factors. Either way we're choosing based on something. Is it better to be attracted to someone because they're funny and famous than because they're good-looking? Or if a girl would date Louis CK but wouldn't date someone who looks like Louie but isn't funny and famous - is that bad? No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 17:58
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...'kay. I'm not really sure what that has to do with what I posted.
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May 14, 2014 18:04
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King Vidiot posted:...'kay.
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May 14, 2014 18:10
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Well no, the speech wasn't solely about the different factors of attractiveness. There was also something in there about how women's sole worth as human beings is based on how physically attractive they are. That's why Louie felt he had to reassure Vanessa that she wasn't fat. He thought he was being kind, but what he was really saying was "Your body weight is the only measure of value as a person, because you're a woman". Louie may feel that his own value is based on his weight, but what he doesn't realize, and what Vanessa tries to explain, is that for men it doesn't matter. Other men don't really judge him. Women (for the most part), don't really judge him unless he's being pathetic about it. Women can tell men they're not attracted to them, because men can be valued for other things. Men have to avoid telling women they're not physically attracted to them, because if a woman isn't physically attractive she's subhuman. And that's what the speech was saying, primarily.
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May 14, 2014 18:27
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King Vidiot posted:Well no, the speech wasn't solely about the different factors of attractiveness. There was also something in there about how women's sole worth as human beings is based on how physically attractive they are. That's why Louie felt he had to reassure Vanessa that she wasn't fat. He thought he was being kind, but what he was really saying was "Your body weight is the only measure of value as a person, because you're a woman". After all that bullshit he's probably going to ignore the next fat girl even harder so that he doesn't have to feel bad about not wanting to date her, because that's now apparently something dudes should feel guilty about. She interprets his lack of interest as interest (wtf, really), so what the heck is he supposed to do next time? No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:48 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 18:39
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eh nvm
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May 14, 2014 18:40
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So the unbleeped "gently caress" from the girl during her speech was unexpected. Maybe FX has done this other times? First I've seen it and it was refreshing.
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May 14, 2014 18:54
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Red posted:Literally anything else but pages of debate over fat acceptance or fat shaming or comparing being fat to being gay/religious/of a certain race.
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May 14, 2014 18:55
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Jesus loving christ, people watched the whole episode, including the beginning where Louie and his brother go eat two full sized meals at two different places in a row after deciding they're not gonna be fat anymore, and they still could think nothing but "well stop being fat then you stupid fat bitch"? You hate fat people just as much as everyone else in the world, we get it. It never ceases to amaze me how people can actually be bad at watching television. I mean it's the easiest poo poo in the world and you still gently caress it up. Come on.
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May 14, 2014 18:57
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No Wave posted:Clearly she has value beyond her looks within the episode. I'm not saying that she doesn't. I'm saying that Louie's internalized this attitude that women only have value if men find them physically attractive. You're kind of deflecting everything I'm saying so that it fits whatever you believe, which I guess in this case is "sexism is over" or something.
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May 14, 2014 19:01
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King Vidiot posted:I'm not saying that she doesn't. I'm saying that Louie's internalized this attitude that women only have value if men find them physically attractive. I'm not sure what I'm deflecting so maybe something is getting lost in communication here. ChairMaster posted:Jesus loving christ, people watched the whole episode, including the beginning where Louie and his brother go eat two full sized meals at two different places in a row after deciding they're not gonna be fat anymore, and they still could think nothing but "well stop being fat then you stupid fat bitch"? You hate fat people just as much as everyone else in the world, we get it. No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 19:06
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LividLiquid posted:Again, nobody is doing that. At all. I don't want to dip back into that poo poo, but somebody was. LividLiquid posted:Being black is also unhealthy, medically. It opens one up to several conditions that aren't a problem for the rest of us. Still think this is a perfectly okay line of questioning? LividLiquid posted:Hence my original point: that if it could be changed, should it? In the name of being treated better, should people change their race?
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May 14, 2014 19:06
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ChairMaster posted:
The Walking Dead thread has proved this time and time again
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May 14, 2014 19:14
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King Vidiot posted:Well no, the speech wasn't solely about the different factors of attractiveness. There was also something in there about how women's sole worth as human beings is based on how physically attractive they are. That's why Louie felt he had to reassure Vanessa that she wasn't fat. He thought he was being kind, but what he was really saying was "Your body weight is the only measure of value as a person, because you're a woman". I didn't get that really. I figured she used Louie as a springboard for her rant. Basically that -he- was probably an alright guy but him saying "no you're not fat" was actually condescending to her because she knew she was fat, and thinking of that launched her into a bunch of semi-related topics about the double standard about male vs. female obesity and how it's viewed in society. The first part of what you're saying isn't really a universal. Only chummy male friends call each other fat - otherwise, yes, people sugarcoat other people's weight in conversation with the overweight person all the time, regardless of gender, unless they're being a jerk. It's not "saying anything" by default. People avoid saying negative things about anyone in general to avoid hurting them and to avoid confrontation. The second part is tied in another huge debate. There are differences in averages between the sexes in the focus of that attraction. Louie's weight doesn't matter as much because his success will override that with more women. If he was just an IT guy making 45k a year, on the other hand, his looks/weight would mean a whole lot more because the success wouldn't be as much of an overriding factor. Success is not as much of an attractor for most men, so that won't override the physical in the same manner. It's not "fair" or "even," but should it even be, really? Louie's execution of some of his societal points varies - this one was a pretty mixed bag because it wasn't focused enough, and half of the points were very arguable.
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May 14, 2014 19:34
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Darko posted:Louie's execution of some of his societal points varies - this one was a pretty mixed bag because it wasn't focused enough, and half of the points were very arguable. Yeah, I think someone else (maybe you) said that her speech was pretty broad so you could really project any message onto it. I was mostly extrapolating what she said about how men feel the need to rush in and say that a woman "isn't fat" because if a woman believes she's fat she must be suicidal or something. Darko posted:Louie's weight doesn't matter as much because his success will override that with more women. That'd be a fair point if Louis C.K. the actual person were the same as Louis C.K. the character on the show "Louie", but we don't necessarily know that this is the case. In real-life Louis C.K. is pretty famous and well-off. On the show he's moderately well-off but doesn't seem to be all that well known except among his circle of comedian friends and personal acquaintances.
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May 14, 2014 19:46
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Darko posted:I didn't get that really. She says at one point something along the lines of "I'm sorry, but you're gonna represent every average guy who has ever been this way to a fat woman". It's clear she's not just angry with Louie, but that he is every man who has ever said "oh, you're not fat..." or not dated her or whatever. And yeah, this doesn't feel like a complaint solely about being fat, but it's about being a woman. The complaints she has aren't simply about her being fat, but about how a woman being fat and a man being fat are two completely different things, and how unfair that is. Her losing the weight and becoming skinny wouldn't magically fix everything, it would just create a whole new set of problems. It would be like a stereotypically ugly woman talking about the differences between ugly women and ugly men. Saying "oh well she can just lose the weight" is missing half the point, because she can lose the weight, but she can't just grow a dick.
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May 14, 2014 19:47
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Yoshifan823 posted:She says at one point something along the lines of "I'm sorry, but you're gonna represent every average guy who has ever been this way to a fat woman". It's clear she's not just angry with Louie, but that he is every man who has ever said "oh, you're not fat..." or not dated her or whatever.
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May 14, 2014 19:55
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I think Louis C.K. wrote the rant to try and tell the audience something about uh, everything you guys pointed out about societies view on fat women. Stuff a lot of viewers probably haven't even considered, like that "human being" scene. I think he surrounded them with joggers and people exercising to also mock that speech, and himself. I think it's a complicated episode that's worth eighty posts of discussion.
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May 14, 2014 19:59
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No Wave posted:I don't think she was complaining about being a woman in general. I'm not really sure where you're getting that from. Not specifically about "just" being a woman, but about the differences between being a man and a woman. It's less about the fat/not fat divide and more about the fat man/fat woman divide. She didn't spend most of her time talking about skinny women, but about fat men.
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May 14, 2014 20:01
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Yoshifan823 posted:Not specifically about "just" being a woman, but about the differences between being a man and a woman. It's less about the fat/not fat divide and more about the fat man/fat woman divide. She didn't spend most of her time talking about skinny women, but about fat men. EDIT: She's also significantly more portly than he is. She's more mad that she can't date "up", not so much that she can't date "across" (quoting an old CK stand-up). Although he is older i guess. No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:20 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 20:08
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Yoshifan823 posted:Not specifically about "just" being a woman, but about the differences between being a man and a woman. It's less about the fat/not fat divide and more about the fat man/fat woman divide. She didn't spend most of her time talking about skinny women, but about fat men. Being talked down to is what triggered her rant and I can't help but wonder how she would have reacted if he had just been honest and called her a disgusting pig. Irish Joe fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 20:27
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Irish Joe posted:Being talked down to is what triggered her rant and I can't help but wonder how she would have reacted if he had just been honest and called her a disgusting pig. But the real problem is that she's fat and the guys she likes don't want to date her. Changes in word choice aren't going to change that.
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May 14, 2014 20:33
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I like how you guys think along the lines of "saying someone is fat is the same as saying they are a disgusting pig" I mean don't get me wrong, I think that way too, but I at least have the consciousness to admit that it's because I'm not a very good person.
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May 14, 2014 20:35
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Pigbog posted:The whole time I was watching that episode, all I could think was "poo poo, this is going to ruin the Louie thread."
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May 14, 2014 20:50
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SA's a pretty stupid place for you to be. It's the only readable forum I know of where extended back-and-forth exchanges are possible.
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May 14, 2014 20:53
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No Wave posted:SA's a pretty stupid place for you to be. It's the only readable forum I know of where extended back-and-forth exchanges are possible. I know of others, but they tend to be more echo-chamber-y, with less diverse opinions. I actually prefer disagreements when they don't devolve into idiocy.
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May 14, 2014 21:01
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Irish Joe posted:Being talked down to is what triggered her rant and I can't help but wonder how she would have reacted if he had just been honest and called her a disgusting pig. Remember, Louie is a comedian, it's demonstrated that she's pretty quick witted as well. Their whole relationship has got these back and forth jibes going on it's only when they get to the fat thing that Louie suddenly puts kids gloves on "oh you're not fat...". Because he feels sorry for the poor fat girl and weird about bringing it up. Calling her a disgusting pig is a bit much, but I'm sure he could have acknowledged that yeah, she's fat in some jokey way. She's fat, he's fat, his eating buddy is fat, they just had an extended sketch about it. It's not the fact that she's fat per se which is the issue, it's the weirdness Louie/people have about addressing it. massive spider fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 21:03
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No Wave posted:SA's a pretty stupid place for you to be. It's the only readable forum I know of where extended back-and-forth exchanges are possible. I'm sorry that I don't treasure the diverse range of opinions from "being fat is like being black" all the way over to "fat people are disgusting"
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May 14, 2014 21:06
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The proper response would have been for Louie to go "Lol, you think YOURE fat? Let me tell you about what a Bang Bang is." Then launch into a funny story.
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May 14, 2014 21:06
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massive spider posted:Remember, Louie is a comedian, it's demonstrated that she's pretty quick witted as well. nutranurse posted:The proper response would have been for Louie to go "Lol, you think YOURE fat? Let me tell you about what a Bang Bang is." Note that you're doing the same thing as Louie, you're just trying to be better at it. It's not a game worth winning. No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 21:07
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Again, it's Louie's voice that is being heard during the speech. A real person wouldn't stop and monologue on Louie and men in general like that. The show gives Louie the opportunity to give a "Louis C.K. Rant" through the kind of person that is affected by regular joes who think being seen with a fat girl will somehow hurt their image.
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May 14, 2014 21:10
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