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I tried reading the first book one time and gave up after 20 pages because i found the prose untenable  maybe it gets better but the show is much easier to slog through (10 hours a year plus the time i spend reading this thead)
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May 20, 2014 14:57
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The show is definitely easier to follow and if you don't like the idiosyncratic dialect of English in the books then I can totally understand not wanting to get through them. The books have a lot more of the worldbuilding and flavor but the show is a much more slick and straightforward presentation.
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May 20, 2014 15:09
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Wow, leave it to goons to make this the PYF hyperbole regarding the prosaic style of GRRM thread. Sometimes I just enjoy stuff without deconstructing the reasons behind what makes certain parts good or bad and posting it on the internet. Some of you should try it/kill yourselves.
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May 20, 2014 15:25
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I have always read my fictions novels in English, even though it's my 3rd language, as I feel too much gets lost in translation. I haven't read the books yet, but when I do I might consider NOT reading them in English because of what you guys are saying. How does it read compared to much lighter fantasy work like say, Discworld? Anyway back to the show: That combat is going to be episode 8. So what will happen in the usual episode 9 peak episode?
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May 20, 2014 15:26
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Evernoob posted:I have always read my fictions novels in English, even though it's my 3rd language, as I feel too much gets lost in translation. They're puffed-up, ponderous, and addicted to their own complexity. They are bad fat books written by a bad fat man. They will also never be finished, so that's ok.
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May 20, 2014 15:30
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Evernoob posted:Anyway back to the show: That combat is going to be episode 8. So what will happen in the usual episode 9 peak episode? Pick one: Ramsay's marching on Moat Cailin to reclaim it from the Ironborn. Mance Raider is marching on the Wall. Daario is going to recapture Yuunkai from the slavers. And Stannis is taking out loans to buy ships and swords. He is planning on doing something with them.
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May 20, 2014 15:32
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Sometimes I just enjoy stuff without deconstructing the reasons behind what makes certain parts good or bad and posting it on the internet. Some of you should try it/kill yourselves. That's nice but i guess some people aren't content being so intellectually lazy and instead enjoy understanding and unpacking the things they like or dislike so they can either seek or avoid similar offerings in the future... Irish Joe posted:Pick one: Yawn. thathonkey fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 15:33
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I've enjoyed the books (caveat: I read the first two and stopped in book 3 last summer before the events of the Red Wedding for reasons.) No, GRRM is not Tolkien but he does tell a good story. I do wish it wasn't quite as wordy - I think fantasy writers in general have gotten the idea that lots of books = better, but you can read the books pretty quickly.
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May 20, 2014 15:52
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I don't really get why people consider GRRM wordy. But then I'm an English major and have read Actual Wordy (which is not someone I wish on anyone). GRRM is pretty straightforward writing in my opinion. Occasionally characters speak using unusual diction.
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May 20, 2014 15:57
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thathonkey posted:Yawn. If I were writing the show, Dany would've conquered Westeros on the back of Drogon by season 2 and right now we'd be watching her kickstart global warming in the north as she burns the Night King alive.
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May 20, 2014 16:01
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thathonkey posted:That's nice but i guess some people aren't content being so intellectually lazy and instead enjoy understanding and unpacking the things they like or dislike so they can either seek or avoid similar offerings in the future...
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May 20, 2014 16:01
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You know what game of thrones episode 8 needs? A one hour flashback episode.
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May 20, 2014 16:04
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Evernoob posted:I have always read my fictions novels in English, even though it's my 3rd language, as I feel too much gets lost in translation. English is my second language and I haven't read Discworld but I found nothing particularly hard to read in ASoIaF. It's kindergarten english compared to, say, China Mieville for example (who is a much better writer incidentally).
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May 20, 2014 16:05
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Can't believe all the book hate here. I've read a bit of fiction and found grrm to be a fantastic storyteller. He definitely has a habit of being long-winded, but his many strengths outweigh his weaker points. The show may be a better show than the books are a book because fantasy shows are usually garbage, but the books are still incredible Saying he's so terrible that the first chapter was unbearable is way edgy!
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May 20, 2014 16:20
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Baldbeard posted:Can't believe all the book hate here. I've read a bit of fiction and found grrm to be a fantastic storyteller. He definitely has a habit of being long-winded, but his many strengths outweigh his weaker points. There needs to be a sticky for TVIV entitled "Subjectivity For Dummies".
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May 20, 2014 16:27
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Manic Mailman posted:You know what game of thrones episode 8 needs? A one hour flashback episode. Where did Jon get his tattoos?
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May 20, 2014 16:30
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precision posted:There needs to be a sticky for TVIV entitled "Subjectivity For Dummies". It's kinda begging to become some kind of argument when people say that it's the "worst" prose they've ever read
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May 20, 2014 16:31
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For the record I do think the first season of the show is straight-up better than the first book. The first book in the series is also in my opinion the worst-written; while GRRM has some issues with pacing later on his prose gets better with every book. Unfortunately the show has lost a lot of the detail and nuance that made the storytelling so potent in books since then. It was detail and nuance that would probably be impossible to show on screen considering everything that happens, but it's still a bit unfortunate. The adaptation is overall fantastic but so many small cool things that really added to the story were lost along the way (and there's some big things, like The Mountain's entire character). It's perfectly fine if people dislike the books, I just think the situation is kinda funny as generally the scenes that TV-only people love are ripped straight from the pages while the scenes they dislike are filler. I have a high tolerance for prose if the story is good but GRRM's prose was never THAT bad to me.
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May 20, 2014 16:35
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whalestory posted:It's kinda begging to become some kind of argument when people say that it's the "worst" prose they've ever read I didn't say that. I said they were two of the worst books I have ever read. That is a valid opinion to have about anything, especially genre fiction. We're not even supposed to be talking about the books this much, but for the record, here are writers I think are good: Irvine Welsh, William Gibson, Robert Anton Wilson, Tom Robbins, Terry Pratchett, Michael Swanwick (I would kick a puppy for an HBO miniseries of The Iron Dragon's Daughter). edit: If you want an example of someone closer to GRRM that I actually enjoy: early Robin Hobb (the Assassin and Fool trilogies especially). Now those are good fantasy novels. IN MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION. precision fucked around with this message at 16:40 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 16:37
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Manic Mailman posted:You know what game of thrones episode 8 needs? A one hour flashback episode. Oberyn and Mountain charging up for an hour, then NEXT TIME ON GAME OF THRONES
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May 20, 2014 16:42
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thathonkey posted:Yawn. Don't forget that's just the possibilities the show has explicitly detailed. Things could happen to other characters. And this is not me doing some vague "oh you just wait" spoiler either, events are not really in sync with the books for a few characters so nobody really knows what will happen to/around a few characters in the next couple episodes.
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May 20, 2014 16:43
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precision posted:I didn't say that. I said they were two of the worst books I have ever read. That is a valid opinion to have about anything, especially genre fiction. If you think Robert Anton Wilson and William Gibson write better prose than GRRM ... well I dunno what to tell you. You have unique tastes, I guess. If anyone deserves the backhanded compliment of "oh he's a good storyteller but is bad at the writing thing" it's William Gibson.
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May 20, 2014 16:43
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KamikazePotato posted:For the record I do think the first season of the show is straight-up better than the first book. The first book in the series is also in my opinion the worst-written; while GRRM has some issues with pacing later on his prose gets better with every book. He's not a bad writer. We're kind of talking about this in the current climate, which is that "Game of Thrones TV Show is really good, therefore GRRM is one of the Great Authors!" I hear people say "he's too wordy for me" all the time, on the Internet and elsewhere. I can't really think of a time where I heard "he is actually the worst." Name Change fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 16:44
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regulargonzalez posted:If you think Robert Anton Wilson and William Gibson write better prose than GRRM ... well I dunno what to tell you. You have unique tastes, I guess. Not that unique, plenty of people would agree with that sentiment. Though it really depends which Gibson book you're talking about. Neuromancer was not terribly well written, but the five books after it are. But no seriously what is the point in saying "Wow, you have a subjective opinion that I don't understand"? Three of my best friends listen to a lot of awful music. I don't constantly nag them about "Wow, you really think Avenged Sevenfold plays better music than Godspeed You! Black Emperor?" I just accept it and move on.
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May 20, 2014 16:52
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Remember you are asking the opinions of people who have literally thousands of posts bitching about GRRM and being bitter over his slow rear end writing. People I know irl who have read the books love them and that's probably a function of not constantly deconstructing every single sentence he's ever written over the course of four years.
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May 20, 2014 17:23
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But can we all agree that Terry Goodkind and his Sword of Truth series eats its own rear end in a top hat after a while, at least?
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May 20, 2014 17:33
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You mean the series with an ending so bad that "And he woke up and it was all a dream!" would have been an improvement?
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May 20, 2014 17:35
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You're going to fight that?
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May 20, 2014 17:36
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I think the only thing worth knowing about the books is that GRRM meant to time skip, but didn't, which is why everyone is so young, and yet book readers are mad all the sex and murder scenes are with near adults vs definitely still childrenEvernoob posted:Anyway back to the show: That combat is going to be episode 8. So what will happen in the usual episode 9 peak episode? Tyrion getting out of King's Landing (win or lose, there's nothing for him there). Something bad preventing Arya and Sansa from reuniting (obviously). I also think a major bad is likely to get shanked, probably Tywin, but maybe Sansa is about to grow some agency. Theon helping take that fort, which will make Ramsay and Roose so happy they'll murder a few whores each. Theon will continue to suck. Democracy at the Wall, because obviously they need a for reals leader before the big army comes (it won't ever get there, but that will be ep 10). Bran and company continue their journey. Maybe Meera fucks Bran (insert awful warging Hodor possibility). Brienne and Pod might die since they are too cool to live. Edit: Maybe we will see Davos saving (or trying to save or avenging) that girl, and likely dying or having to leave for it. It'd be more exciting if sacrificing the princess is actually when Stannis wakes the gently caress up and realizes what Mel Red Boobs is turning him into, and ditches her (but that won't happen because Stannis loving sucks). There would be something funny if the last king of the 5 kings living turned out to be Ineffective Greyjoy, theoretical lord of rape and pillage. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 17:52
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I don't see why some of those things couldn't also happen in episode 8. It's not like the fight is going to last the entire hour.
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May 20, 2014 18:01
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Having read only the first book: The show didn't even explain why she would ever trust the Lannisters enough to think they would actually swap her girls for Jaime. I have to wonder why all show-only watchers don't think she's the biggest idiot for that. Or maybe I'm wrong. Do you all completely understand why she would think the Lannisters would be sincere with their trade? Also almost every bit of dialogue and conversations that this thread loves comes word for word out of the books (Ex: Tyrion's courtroom speech, Tyrion and Bronn, Tyrion and Oberyn, Cersei/Sansa during the Blackwater episode) and almost every part that the thread complains about and thinks it's stupid was totally invented for the show. Any time there's a lot of people calling something filler or pointless in this thread, chances are that's a show addition.
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May 20, 2014 18:01
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Super Ninja Fish posted:
As a book-reader, a lot of the best dialogue is pretty good in the books but becomes excellent in the show - this is not because of the show-writers or even really that much because of the direction but because GoT has some A-star talent. Tyrion can be fun in the books, but GRRM's dialogue alone can't capture the charm Peter Dinklage brings to the screen. Also there's a lot of really great moments that are show-only, especially some of the thread favourites. I really don't want to point out too many of them because it might lead to some conclusions that wouldn't occur if book-chat wasn't happening but Arya and the Hound seems to be everyone's favourites at the moment and most of that's new. And there's a lot of things like that. There's also a lot of things that are less bad in the show than they were in the books. I have to say if I thought I was able to avoid spoilers and I could time travel, I would not read the books. Sometimes the adaptation falls short or screws some stuff up but all in all he books are good, but the show is great.
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May 20, 2014 18:08
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The show didn't even explain why she would ever trust the Lannisters enough to think they would actually swap her girls for Jaime. I have to wonder why all show-only watchers don't think she's the biggest idiot for that. Or maybe I'm wrong. Do you all completely understand why she would think the Lannisters would be sincere with their trade? How many times has "A Lannister always repays his debts" been said in the show?
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May 20, 2014 18:10
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precision posted:The problem is that it is predictable. "Here is a character that is awesome. He/she will suffer horribly." It's bad storytelling not because bad things happen to people we like, but because everything becomes telegraphed. Jaime becomes likable? Hand chopped off. Ned dies. Robb gets Red Wedding'd. It's something you have to use sparingly, and not do it to every loving character. I'm already fully expecting The Hound to die this season purely because he has become a very interesting character. The character becoming likeable and then something bad happens to them is more of a television writing device / trope than a GRRM problem
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May 20, 2014 18:15
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The show didn't even explain why she would ever trust the Lannisters enough to think they would actually swap her girls for Jaime. I have to wonder why all show-only watchers don't think she's the biggest idiot for that. Or maybe I'm wrong. Do you all completely understand why she would think the Lannisters would be sincere with their trade? As a show only watcher, I was under the impression that most fans on either side thought Cat was an idiot? I mean Robb was an idiot too by betraying Walder Frey, but he was also right when Cat was worrying about getting Arya and Sansa back and he goes "It's more complicated than that, you know it is!". Like, I understand her actions. She's a desperate mother who just wants her girls back. But her actions are also stupid and cost them a valuable hostage.
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May 20, 2014 18:16
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Brick Card posted:The character becoming likeable and then something bad happens to them is more of a television writing device / trope than a GRRM problem grrm's entire career consisted of setting up the exact same dominoes and then knocking them down until he finally, mercifully, ran out of ideas it is a tv problem and it is also a him problem, along with his many other problems
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May 20, 2014 18:26
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We haven't seen Walder Frey in a while. I'm thinking he's due for an appearance by episode 9.
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May 20, 2014 18:27
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Oxxidation posted:grrm's entire career consisted of setting up the exact same dominoes and then knocking them down until he finally, mercifully, ran out of ideas This sort of poo poo is exactly why most of the TV show's hype revolves around the 'nobody's safe!' 'who's going to die next?! bullshit. There is so much more to the story than killing off popular characters.
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May 20, 2014 18:33
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The show didn't even explain why she would ever trust the Lannisters enough to think they would actually swap her girls for Jaime. I have to wonder why all show-only watchers don't think she's the biggest idiot for that. Or maybe I'm wrong. Do you all completely understand why she would think the Lannisters would be sincere with their trade? I took it as a mother acting irrationally in a desperate attempt to get her daughters back. Works for me.
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May 20, 2014 18:47
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Steve2911 posted:There is so much more to the story than killing off popular characters. Yes, that's why he should stop doing it unless it's absolutely crucial to the plot. Like I said earlier, killing off Oberyn would just be a complete dick move, we're due for some new blood in the cast, especially since Jojen and Meera are incredibly boring now that Meera doesn't get to fight over who's the better babysitter for Bran.
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May 20, 2014 18:47
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