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  • Locked thread
ugh its Troika
May 2, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

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psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.
I'm so glad we're on the topic of academia, because I'm sure everyone here will totally agree with universities posting trigger warnings in syllabi about such violent pieces as "The Merchant of Venice" and "The Great Gatsby."

quote:

At Oberlin College in Ohio, a draft guide was circulated that would have asked professors to put trigger warnings in their syllabuses. The guide said they should flag anything that might “disrupt a student’s learning” and “cause trauma,” including anything that would suggest the inferiority of anyone who is transgender (a form of discrimination known as cissexism) or who uses a wheelchair (or ableism).

“Be aware of racism, classism, sexism, heterosexism, cissexism, ableism, and other issues of privilege and oppression,” the guide said. “Realize that all forms of violence are traumatic, and that your students have lives before and outside your classroom, experiences you may not expect or understand.” For example, it said, while “Things Fall Apart” by Chinua Achebe — a novel set in colonial-era Nigeria — is a “triumph of literature that everyone in the world should read,” it could “trigger readers who have experienced racism, colonialism, religious persecution, violence, suicide and more.”

I had to quadruple check that this article wasn't some kind of parody, because Poe's law is in full force here.

psydude fucked around with this message at 08:46 on May 20, 2014

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



psydude posted:

I'm so glad we're on the topic of academia, because I'm sure everyone here will totally agree with universities posting trigger warnings in syllabi about such violent pieces as "The Merchant of Venice" and "The Great Gatsby."


I had to quadruple check that this article wasn't some kind of parody, because Poe's law is in full force here.

Your posting is incredibly triggering to me right now.

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned
What the loving gently caress does triggering mean, like how when I see a fat dude with a pony tail in a silk club shirt with flames on it that I want to stab them? Or do you literally shake with rage and post about it online?

Is this what SJW's have as their PTSD?

Flaky
Feb 14, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
A good way of imagining the principle might be the pop of a jet lighter igniting if you had been a meth addict.

Flaky fucked around with this message at 09:46 on May 20, 2014

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013

psydude posted:

I'm so glad we're on the topic of academia, because I'm sure everyone here will totally agree with universities posting trigger warnings in syllabi about such violent pieces as "The Merchant of Venice" and "The Great Gatsby."


I had to quadruple check that this article wasn't some kind of parody, because Poe's law is in full force here.

Roads paved with good intention I guess, but goddamn I really hope the writer has it in for liberals and the story isn't actually as egregiously dumb as the article makes it out to be. :eng99:

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Courthouse posted:

Roads paved with good intention I guess, but goddamn I really hope the writer has it in for liberals and the story isn't actually as egregiously dumb as the article makes it out to be. :eng99:

Their community is a liberal septic tank with some hilarious totalitarian features; lower your expectations.

Force de Fappe
Nov 7, 2008

They backtracked on it. The idea is kinda stupid too since people with PTSD, anxiety disorder or other debilitating conditions can be "triggered", that is have an "attack" provoked, by shitloads of stuff. A rape awareness talker who came to my highschool talked about how the scent of garlic, no matter how minute, was enough to get her into full mental lockdown since the guy who raped her had a bad case of garlic breath. Big noisy crowds are common for military PTSD sufferers.

So I guess what I'm saying is that whenever somebody posts the Air Force logo, trigger warn that poo poo yo.

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.


maffew buildings posted:

What the loving gently caress does triggering mean, like how when I see a fat dude with a pony tail in a silk club shirt with flames on it that I want to stab them? Or do you literally shake with rage and post about it online?

Is this what SJW's have as their PTSD?

Kinda sorta. But a whole lot less being shot at.


edit: You know what. That was mean and uncalled for. So I removed it.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013

Sjurygg posted:

They backtracked on it. The idea is kinda stupid too since people with PTSD, anxiety disorder or other debilitating conditions can be "triggered", that is have an "attack" provoked, by shitloads of stuff. A rape awareness talker who came to my highschool talked about how the scent of garlic, no matter how minute, was enough to get her into full mental lockdown since the guy who raped her had a bad case of garlic breath. Big noisy crowds are common for military PTSD sufferers.

So I guess what I'm saying is that whenever somebody posts the Air Force logo, trigger warn that poo poo yo.

So we need a new liberal political correctness campaign enforcing that the word "trigger" only be used for serious ptsd stuff, in the same vein as how saying you rape noobs in CoD can get you expelled?

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Mad Dragon posted:

My friend's kid wanted to apply to a $40k per semester school, and they wanted $45 just for the loving application. :what: Needless to say, she's going to community college in the fall.

That's about right for an application fee. They were 30-40 in the late 90s.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Courthouse posted:

So we need a new liberal political correctness campaign enforcing that the word "trigger" only be used for serious ptsd stuff, in the same vein as how saying you rape noobs in CoD can get you expelled?

Can't we just say the word trigger is a trigger for vets because guns or whatever?

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

quote:

“trigger readers who have experienced ... colonialism,"

lmao gently caress everything kill all humans

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

Unless you were born before 1940 in certain countries in Southeast Asia, Africa, or South America, you didn't experience "Colonialism". And if you did survive it, you probably aren't a crybaby whiner having to read about it.


krispykremessuck posted:

lmao gently caress everything kill all humans

with nuclear fire.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013
I'm less worried about people being upset about bad things, and more worried about the idea that academia feels their job is to insulate students from ideas and events that are upsetting to them. That seems less overzealous political correctness and more a breakdown of one of the main existential purposes of higher learning.




Also, according to the UN there are technically still 16 'non-self governing unincorporated colonial territories' in the world. Primarily a bunch of carribean and pacific islands and gibraltar, including US Virgin Islands, American Samoa and Guam. So there could totally be a whole bunch of oppressed colonial subjects on the Uni football team, and if some athlete ever made it to any class that required a book their feelings could be hurt.

:goonsay:


E;

Back in world events, the Thai military has unilaterally declared martial law, put troops in the streets, and taken control of tv stations.

quote:

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- It's tense in Thailand, where violence has spilled into the streets, causing deaths, injuries and political instability that led to the Thai army declaring martial law Tuesday.
The declaration was a surprise move that an aide to the embattled Prime Minister said the government didn't know about.
"They took this action unilaterally," said the aide, who did not wish to be named. The person described the action as "half a coup d'etat."

Lt. Gen. Nipat Thonglek told CNN the move was not a coup.
"The army aims to maintain peace, order and public safety for all groups and all parties," a ticker running on the army's television channel said. "People are urged not to panic, and can carry on their business as usual," he said.

Two weeks ago, after protests shook the country, the country's Constitutional Court removed caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra from government.
The people of Thailand are all too familiar with coup d'etats. There have been at least 18 actual and attempted military takeovers since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy in 1932.

Martial law went into effect at 3 a.m. Tuesday, a television ticker said.
The military is guarding all Thai TV stations, Thai public television announced, showing pictures of soldiers and armored vehicles taking positions outside broadcast facilities in the country's capital.
In a statement read on Thai television, the military declared that all of the country's radio and television stations must suspend their normal programs "when it is needed."
The dramatic announcements come days after the head of the army issued a stern warning after political violence had surged in the country's capital.

The U.S. Embassy in Bangkok alerted American citizens in the country to the invoking of martial law in a statement Tuesday. It warned them to pay attention to media coverage of Thailand and avoid protests and public gatherings, saying that even peaceful events can turn violent.

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 20, 2014

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.


krispykremessuck posted:

lmao gently caress everything kill all humans

I had to explain to someone I work with that if we were running a pregnancy test, the patient was a female. They tried to argue with me that because the paperwork didn't list gender we didn't know.

"If we are running a pregnancy test they are a woman. Males lack critical components required for pregnancy, I don't care how many loving tumblr accounts say otherwise."

This is an actual statement I had to make to an actual adult in the medical field. They also did not know what Tumblr was. I also had to explain to more than three people why I call the autistic savant Rain Man. Then explain to them what a savant is.

These are theoretically college educated adults.

I work with retards.

Cole
Nov 24, 2004

DUNSON'D

krispykremessuck posted:

lmao gently caress everything kill all humans

Who are these people

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.


Cole posted:

Who are these people

20 something Americans who have too much time on their hands and want to out "enlightened" all their fuckwit friends.

I never thought there would be something worse than the dirt foot hippy movement. Then hipsters came along. And were outdone by SJWs and their carebear hugbox bullshit.

I mean I get that you don't need to be a combat vet to have seen some poo poo in your time. And bad things happen to people. Hell, after getting hit by lightning, I'm not a big fan of finishing the back 9 when the afternoon storms come rolling in. But there comes a point where it is taken too far. Those people are waaaaaaaaay the gently caress past that point.

Mike-o
Dec 25, 2004

Now I'm in your room
And I'm in your bed


Grimey Drawer
jfc loving burn everything nuke this loving gay earth kill all humans we're all loving retards god drat

if i hear someone say 'trigger warning' today i'm going to open palm slap the poo poo out of them

Cole
Nov 24, 2004

DUNSON'D
Since the south isn't as hipster as the north it seems, does this mean I don't have to worry about this stuff when I go to school?

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011


Pork Pro

Mike-o posted:

jfc loving burn everything nuke this loving gay earth kill all humans we're all loving retards god drat

if i hear someone say 'trigger warning' today i'm going to open palm slap the poo poo out of them

Trigger Warning

:nws: http://i.imgur.com/cxyT0qD.jpg :nws:

Because it has got some jizz on it

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
Don't take Oberlin as a bellwether, it's taken pride as The Silliest College On The Planet for some time. Back when I applied there their gimmick was you needed written and signed forms to progress through each and any of several defined stages of sexual activity, leading to (basically) blank check parties. This was after an epidemic at the (mostly female) college of men supposedly getting gangraped in the showers by random roving packs of butch femmes.

The trigger thing does tie into the trend of shouting down unpleasant university guests and/or forcing them off campus, including this business with 'uninviting' Hirsi Ali, Rice, Lagarde etc. That's also, well, not really a new thing and it's hard to say it's actually just now gotten worse (I remember it happening in the '90s, but I went to a silly school) but it's beginning to get noticed, at least partially in the context of college education being so expensive and so worthless.

Cole posted:

Since the south isn't as hipster as the north it seems, does this mean I don't have to worry about this stuff when I go to school?

Really really reaaaaallly depends on the school. There will be -some- element of it.

Mike-o
Dec 25, 2004

Now I'm in your room
And I'm in your bed


Grimey Drawer

Booblord Zagats posted:

Trigger Warning

:nws: http://i.imgur.com/cxyT0qD.jpg :nws:

Because it has got some jizz on it

:cumpolice:

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

Snowdens Secret posted:

The cost of a fairly mundane college education has so far outpaced inflation that even the white upper middle class folks can't afford it without debt, especially if god forbid they have more than one kid. Most of the time you see college cost discussed, it's related to starting salaries of the grads. But (and I can't find the numbers at the moment) when you compare tuition to the parents' salary, it's gone in the last few decades from something like 2-3 months income to 2-3 years income to send a kid to get a 4-year degree.

This gets way, way uglier when you start looking at the numbers differences between two- and one-parent households but that's also way beyond the scope

There's been reports/studies done that correlate the incredible rise in tuition costs with the ease in which students are able to get student loans to cover it.
Personally, I think they need to limit what course studies that loans will pay for (say, for example, STEM degrees), and I would agree that's probably not really fair - to an extent. Colleges could seriously trim the fat on what majors they offer (eg gender studies....really?).

If lenders make the requirements to obtain a student loan similar to say a car or whatever/so strict (higher credit score, income requirements, etc) then it could be argued that it would block out lower income kids from going to college. Apparently, they can't grasp that they could work while going to school and take a lower course load and graduate in 6 years instead of 4. Or, join the military then go to school on Uncle Sam's dime.

Then the calls of racism would come.

I was lucky enough that my parents paid for college as long as I made good grades AND worked to support myself if I decided to move out. But I took my time (graduated in about 6 years), did well in school, and had a blast.

I can't really imagine why anyone would feel the need to graduate as quick as possible.

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

Tide posted:

Apparently, they can't grasp that they could work while going to school and take a lower course load and graduate in 6 years instead of 4.

This is a statement that is not supported by math.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
I'd love to see the trigger warnings to be associated with history classes.

"Trigger warning: literally everything."

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011
Twenty-something's be twenty-something's. People at that age feel like they're discovering everything and think they're going to overturn a calcified order. Converting the world is a righteous crusade. The same thread goes through new MBAs, "tech evangelists," and SJWs. SJWs are just extra insufferable because they consider themselves victims breaking their chains rather than geniuses revolutionizing the world.

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

psydude posted:

This is a statement that is not supported by math.

The biggest problem I have with that article is this statement:

quote:

He assumes that a college student will have a hard time finding work that pays more than minimum wage

It's hard, but not impossible and typically the jobs that pay more than min wage do so because nobody wants to do them - especially not liberal arts types. Hell, forklift drivers make pretty drat good money for what they do (quick look in the want ads shows anywhere between 12 and 20 bucks an hour. I could name off half a dozen jobs what pay pretty decently (not enough to really support a family but well enough to go to school) - route driver, forklift driver, general laborer/worker for construction, trade apprentice (plumber, electrician, etc). One of my roommates in college (now flying F18s for the Navy) worked his way through college cutting lawns. The guys that pull mooring lines on our cargo ships make $60 pretax a call out for what amounts to half an hour worth of work. Three ships a day (really easy to do) yields $180 per day pretax. I made $100-$200 a night in '91-'96 money bartending and waiting tables.

I'll readily concede that all Mike Rowe dirty jobs that pay pretty well aren't available in all towns/cities, but I can't imagine they don't exist at all. I don't disagree that when taking wages/earnings into consideration the cost of college hasn't gotten out of whack, at all. But so has everything else.

I don't want to say "Bootstrap it, bitch, get your hands dirty" to people that are relying on student loans to get through college or complaining about the cost but..."Bootstrap it, bitch...get your hands dirty".

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Tide posted:

Apparently, they can't grasp that they could work while going to school and take a lower course load and graduate in 6 years instead of 4.

A lot of schools including my own state's schools you are either paying full time tuition or you aren't, so if you want to get out of there with the least cost you want to go as fast as possible. Also, in addition to paying just tuition, there are a lot of other college-associated costs that decrease the faster one gets done with it.

Also working while going to school sucks especially if you need to work beyond just "paying for the fun stuff" levels and more like "paying for food and rent." 40+ hours is exhausting especially the completely lovely jobs a 21 year old is qualified for.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Twenty-something's be twenty-something's. People at that age feel like they're discovering everything and think they're going to overturn a calcified order. Converting the world is a righteous crusade. The same thread goes through new MBAs, "tech evangelists," and SJWs. SJWs are just extra insufferable because they consider themselves victims breaking their chains rather than geniuses revolutionizing the world.

This is way too much of a tangent but keep in mind this is a very recent thing. Even twenty years ago the idea it'd be normal to be in your mid-20s and still be a 'child' screwing off on your parent's expense was preposterous and repugnant. Look at your parents and their generation, their parents and that generation etc and see what they were doing in their mid-20s.

Admittedly in many cases that was 'getting shipped off to war' and we should be very, very, very grateful we - well, some of us, this is GiP - didn't have to live through that, but that shouldn't mean people should just spend the time being worthless loafing-off shitbirds instead.

The argument that you can't afford to work to pay for college and actually be in college at the same time may be less clear than that article makes out (people do it, and with much more pleasant jobs than loving linehandling and short-haul trucking), but it's again a reflection of tuition/fees grossly, grossly outpacing inflation even at public schools, and not anything you're going to address on the employment side.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Tide posted:



I don't want to say "Bootstrap it, bitch, get your hands dirty" to people that are relying on student loans to get through college or complaining about the cost but..."Bootstrap it, bitch...get your hands dirty".

uh

Tide posted:


I was lucky enough that my parents paid for college as long as I made good grades AND worked to support myself if I decided to move out.

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Tide posted:

The biggest problem I have with that article is this statement:


It's hard, but not impossible and typically the jobs that pay more than min wage do so because nobody wants to do them - especially not liberal arts types. Hell, forklift drivers make pretty drat good money for what they do (quick look in the want ads shows anywhere between 12 and 20 bucks an hour. I could name off half a dozen jobs what pay pretty decently (not enough to really support a family but well enough to go to school) - route driver, forklift driver, general laborer/worker for construction, trade apprentice (plumber, electrician, etc). One of my roommates in college (now flying F18s for the Navy) worked his way through college cutting lawns. The guys that pull mooring lines on our cargo ships make $60 pretax a call out for what amounts to half an hour worth of work. Three ships a day (really easy to do) yields $180 per day pretax. I made $100-$200 a night in '91-'96 money bartending and waiting tables.

I'll readily concede that all Mike Rowe dirty jobs that pay pretty well aren't available in all towns/cities, but I can't imagine they don't exist at all. I don't disagree that when taking wages/earnings into consideration the cost of college hasn't gotten out of whack, at all. But so has everything else.

I don't want to say "Bootstrap it, bitch, get your hands dirty" to people that are relying on student loans to get through college or complaining about the cost but..."Bootstrap it, bitch...get your hands dirty".

you're really simplifying it and shifting it from college being preposterously expensive to people just not working hard enough.

i'm not gonna make excuses for people because it definitely is possible to work and pay for college, but in non-worthless degree programs that require a lot of focus on complex subjects, it's certainly not desirable to have students working full time just to break even

as always its as if the truth lies somewhere in the middle

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

krispykremessuck posted:

you're really simplifying it and shifting it from college being preposterously expensive to people just not working hard enough.

i'm not gonna make excuses for people because it definitely is possible to work and pay for college, but in non-worthless degree programs that require a lot of focus on complex subjects, it's certainly not desirable to have students working full time just to break even

as always its as if the truth lies somewhere in the middle

If the implication was "work harder", I apologize, that's not my intent. I just meant "the jobs that will pay better than min wage are harder/more difficult than making coffee at starbucks"

But you're quite right: Somewhere in the middle is the truth.


There's some hypocrisy (and luck) there, I'll admit, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong with everything else. I could have paid my way through school with the money I was earning but that went to beer, bongs, and golf along with rent.

So I guess I'll just say THANKS OBAMA.

Tide fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 20, 2014

Greataval
Mar 26, 2010
Reached peak irony here.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Tide posted:

I'll readily concede that all Mike Rowe dirty jobs that pay pretty well aren't available in all towns/cities, but I can't imagine they don't exist at all.

Problem, though is there aren't even enough of those jobs for the guys who've been doing them all their lives, let alone for all the people looking to finally do one better than fry cook. Plus, job growth sucks rear end despite the numbers: ~90% of new jobs since 2009 have been part-time.

ECONOMY,US_FILEPHOTO:


Committee on Ways and Means posted:

Part-Time Nation
Seven New Part-Time Employees for Every One New Full-Time Hire under President Obama
Monday, August 05, 2013

The headlines citing last week’s jobs report as the lowest unemployment rate in years may have been technically accurate, but they are also reminders that looks can be deceiving. The reality, as you dig into the latest jobs data, reveals that few are finding the full-time work they want and need, and many are forced to accept part-time employment. As the chart below depicts, seven out of eight new employees under President Obama have been part-time employees. Those same employees note that it is pretty hard to support a middle class family when you are stuck in a part-time nation.

code:
  	                      January 2009 	 July 2013 	       [b]Change[/b]
 Part-Time Employment	 26.351 million 	 28.233 million 	 +1,882,000 (+7.14%)
 Full-Time Employment 	 115.820 million 	 116.090 million 	 +270,000 (+0.23%)
Source: Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Source

:patriot:

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
Oh lord let's not segue into the jerbs market

psydude
Apr 1, 2008

Heartache is powerful, but democracy is *subtle*.

Tide posted:

There's some hypocrisy (and luck) there, I'll admit, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong with everything else.

You're right, it doesn't, but it also doesn't make you qualified to make blanket generalizations about how everyone could pay for college if they just knuckled down and chose to worked at a high paying job that only requires a high school education and also leaves time to complete coursework. I had my tuition paid for by the government, but even stringing together 20-25 hours a week between 3 above-minimum-wage part time jobs and my ROTC stipend was barely more than enough to pay for rent and food.

psydude fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 20, 2014

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Snowdens Secret posted:

Oh lord let's not segue into the jerbs market

are there not enough puns there or something

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

Greataval posted:

Reached peak irony here.

Plebe

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Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

psydude posted:

You're right, it doesn't, but it also doesn't make you qualified to make blanket generalizations about how everyone could pay for college if they just knuckled down and chose to worked at a high paying job that only requires a high school education and also leaves time to complete coursework. I had my tuition paid for by the government, but even stringing together 20-25 hours a week between 3 above-minimum-wage part time jobs and my ROTC stipend was barely more than enough to pay for rent and food.

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has taxes, and those taxes have to be given to soldiers drawing dickbutts on bathroom stalls. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Psydude? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for tuition fees and and you curse inflation. You have that luxury of the GI Bill. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Julia's student loan debt for womens rights, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my badly worded posts, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives!

You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at mutual masturbation parties in foxholes, you want me on that forklift. You need me pulling those lines. We use words like "bootstrap", "part time student", "STEM degree". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent paying for something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the defense spending budget and post enlistment benefits that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a spatula, and man the grill.

(I'm terrible and not funny)

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