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Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect

Traitorous Leopard posted:

Proposed Budget: This part is my biggest problem. I don't really know how much car I can afford. I'm a fresh college grad, single, no student loans or any debt except my current car note (275/mo). I'll be making about 80k a year in the Florida panhandle. I'm looking to buy a nicer car, so on the upper end of whatever budget makes sense under that situation.

New or Used: New, although I'm open to used if it is highly recommended

Body Style: I'd like to keep it in the range of 2 dr coupe to small SUV. No real preference on which end of the spectrum, though.

How will you be using the car?: Daily driver. 15ish minute commute to work and driving around town. Handling/performance is important, but comes second to the gizmos and doo-dads. I listen to a lot of music on my drives, so a decent sound system is a must. Definitely looking for a backup camera as my current car (2012 Nissan Juke) has me hooked on them. Really looking for a car with a nice array of features.

What aspects are most important to you?

1. Features. Maybe not the most responsible thing to list first but whatever. Apple CarPlay looks cool!

2. Reliability. The less time/money I invest between scheduled maintenance visits the better.

3. Handling/Performance. I'd definitely like something that's a blast to drive on top of all that other stuff, but I can make sacrifices here if need be.


I haven't done a lot of research, but the Audi Q5 has caught my eye as a possibility. I'm not very knowledgeable of car brands, though, so I'm not sure if that's a good one or not.

How much money are you going to put down on it? An Audi Q5 is getting up there for $80k/year. Don't forget to estimate like $200/mo for insurance as well. Edit: That's my Michigan mind, I dunno what insurance is like in Florida.


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

How does this make any sense to anyone at all?

Different trim packages maybe?

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PotatoManJack
Nov 9, 2009
Proposed Budget: $40,000-$60,000 (AUD - we live in Australia)
New or Used: New
Body Style: 4 door sedan or posibly hatch. Definitely needs to be roomy enough to comfortably seat 4 adults
How will you be using the car? This will be our new primary car (but we will be keeping our old car as a 2nd one - a 2003 Toyota Corolla Wagon which will remain our dog transporter). Mostly used for short trips and on the weekend, as my wife and I take public transit to work.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Gizmos are definitely nice, but aren't required. However, standard of living things are definitely desired. To clarify, something like heated seat warmers or fancy clocks that tell the time in 3 countries not so much, but reverse cam, built in sat nav, and automatic breaking are nice.
What aspects are most important to you? 1. Safety - We are upgrading as we are about to have our first child 2. Reliability - We want to make sure that we won't be breaking down every other month 3. Running Costs - We all know that cars eventually need repairs, I don't want to have to pay $1500 to replace a spark plug because they need to order the part from Belgium.


Reposting this as I think it got lost on the last page - would love some advice

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Traitorous Leopard posted:

Proposed Budget: This part is my biggest problem. I don't really know how much car I can afford. I'm a fresh college grad, single, no student loans or any debt except my current car note (275/mo). I'll be making about 80k a year in the Florida panhandle. I'm looking to buy a nicer car, so on the upper end of whatever budget makes sense under that situation.

New or Used: New, although I'm open to used if it is highly recommended

Body Style: I'd like to keep it in the range of 2 dr coupe to small SUV. No real preference on which end of the spectrum, though.

How will you be using the car?: Daily driver. 15ish minute commute to work and driving around town. Handling/performance is important, but comes second to the gizmos and doo-dads. I listen to a lot of music on my drives, so a decent sound system is a must. Definitely looking for a backup camera as my current car (2012 Nissan Juke) has me hooked on them. Really looking for a car with a nice array of features.

What aspects are most important to you?

1. Features. Maybe not the most responsible thing to list first but whatever. Apple CarPlay looks cool!

2. Reliability. The less time/money I invest between scheduled maintenance visits the better.

3. Handling/Performance. I'd definitely like something that's a blast to drive on top of all that other stuff, but I can make sacrifices here if need be.


I haven't done a lot of research, but the Audi Q5 has caught my eye as a possibility. I'm not very knowledgeable of car brands, though, so I'm not sure if that's a good one or not.

Lets start with the BFC part here. Why do you want/need a new car to replace a 2012? I mean if it just isn't working out for you, fine, but the reasons would help. I mean 2012 is pretty new.
Also, an SUV is probably not the way to go if you're after "Handling/Performance" and an Audi is never the way to go for reliability.

Also, you're committing the biggest sin by shopping on payment. My $15k Mazda is more than $270/mo with 0% and 0 down for 60mo. I suspect you're putting a bit more down. Similarly, you can do a 120 mo note (yes, this exists) and make most anything under $270/mo.

nm fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 20, 2014

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

Uncle Jam posted:

How much money are you going to put down on it? An Audi Q5 is getting up there for $80k/year. Don't forget to estimate like $200/mo for insurance as well. Edit: That's my Michigan mind, I dunno what insurance is like in Florida.


Down payment is probably gonna be whatever trade-in I get (or if I can do so easily, whatever I sell my current car for) plus maybe 5 - 10k depending on how long I decide to save. I guess I should mention I wasn't planning on buying right now - I'll likely wait until I get my current car paid off next year before I start getting really serious. Just trying to get a feel for what I should look at.


nm posted:

Lets start with the BFC part here. Why do you want/need a new car to replace a 2012? I mean if it just isn't working out for you, fine, but the reasons would help. I mean 2012 is pretty new.
Also, an SUV is probably not the way to go if you're after "Handling/Performance" and an Audi is never the way to go for reliability.

Also, you're committing the biggest sin by shopping on payment. My $15k Mazda is more than $270/mo with 0% and 0 down for 60mo. I suspect you're putting a bit more down. Similarly, you can do a 120 mo note (yes, this exists) and make most anything under $270/mo.


Like you mentioned, the charm is starting to wear off on my current car. I liked it at first, but I'm looking for something more "professional" or "adult" now if that makes any sense. And the Audi bit you mentioned is just the kinda stuff I'm unaware of! I'm really just trying to get in the ballpark of what I should be doing research on.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the second part. Could you clarify? Do you mean don't shop cars based on monthly payments but rather cost to own over the entire loan? I get that part, I didn't mean to imply I was looking for the smallest monthly payment possible if I did. If you're talking about my payment on my current car being low, I did put 13k (including trade-in) down on it.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Traitorous Leopard posted:

Down payment is probably gonna be whatever trade-in I get (or if I can do so easily, whatever I sell my current car for) plus maybe 5 - 10k depending on how long I decide to save. I guess I should mention I wasn't planning on buying right now - I'll likely wait until I get my current car paid off next year before I start getting really serious. Just trying to get a feel for what I should look at.



Like you mentioned, the charm is starting to wear off on my current car. I liked it at first, but I'm looking for something more "professional" or "adult" now if that makes any sense. And the Audi bit you mentioned is just the kinda stuff I'm unaware of! I'm really just trying to get in the ballpark of what I should be doing research on.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the second part. Could you clarify? Do you mean don't shop cars based on monthly payments but rather cost to own over the entire loan? I get that part, I didn't mean to imply I was looking for the smallest monthly payment possible if I did. If you're talking about my payment on my current car being low, I did put 13k (including trade-in) down on it.

Don't shop on payment. Say I want a $20k car or whatever.
For what it is worth, I make ~$80k, and I'd never think of buying a $40k car unless I had a fairly big chuck of cash to put down. While I do own two cars (one paid off worth $12-13k and one that is the 0 down note), it just seems like a giant waste of income.
If I was buying a new car in the $20-30k range and was like 23-25, I'd be looking at the BRZ twins or something. An audi Q5 is for quasi-wealthy soccer dads in their 40s.
That said, I would first and formost advise you to wait. You just got a fancy new job and the urge to spend is there, but you don't knwo if it is long term, if you'll like it, if you'll move, etc. I'd put up with the juke (or something that is virtually a straight trade) for a while, until you get some stability and n idea of what your income actually means. $80k sure seems like a lot until you factor in health insurance, taxes, 401k, rent, car insurance, loving cell phone and cable, etc. It does look like you're doing that, which is smart.

(Also, unless you work in sales that involves driving people around no one cares what you drive at work, especially if it is a reasonably recent CUV in not terrible shape.)

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

nm posted:

Don't shop on payment. Say I want a $20k car or whatever.
For what it is worth, I make ~$80k, and I'd never think of buying a $40k car unless I had a fairly big chuck of cash to put down. While I do own two cars (one paid off worth $12-13k and one that is the 0 down note), it just seems like a giant waste of income.
If I was buying a new car in the $20-30k range and was like 23-25, I'd be looking at the BRZ twins or something. An audi Q5 is for quasi-wealthy soccer dads in their 40s.
That said, I would first and formost advise you to wait. You just got a fancy new job and the urge to spend is there, but you don't knwo if it is long term, if you'll like it, if you'll move, etc. I'd put up with the juke (or something that is virtually a straight trade) for a while, until you get some stability and n idea of what your income actually means. $80k sure seems like a lot until you factor in health insurance, taxes, 401k, rent, car insurance, loving cell phone and cable, etc. It does look like you're doing that, which is smart.

(Also, unless you work in sales that involves driving people around no one cares what you drive at work, especially if it is a reasonably recent CUV in not terrible shape.)

Appreciate the input. I'll definitely get a better handle on what my finances look like between now and some time next year - I'm mostly just window shopping at this point and trying to get an idea of what I should look into more when I do want to buy.

e: The BRZ looks pretty cool, but I guess I should also mention I'm planning on getting an automatic transmission as well cause I'm a weenie that can't drive manual. I know the BRZ can have an AT, but I feel like it's one of those that you get the most out of by driving with a stick. That's why the performance/handling bit was last on my list.

Traitorous Leopard fucked around with this message at 07:00 on May 20, 2014

plester1
Jul 9, 2004





Traitorous Leopard posted:

...I'm looking for something more "professional" or "adult" now if that makes any sense.

If you want something more "professional" or "adult" for yourself, that's cool, but I would recommend against buying a car based on the image you believe it projects.

That being said, nm is right:

nm posted:

An audi Q5 is for quasi-wealthy soccer dads in their 40s.

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

plester1 posted:

If you want something more "professional" or "adult" for yourself, that's cool,

That's what I meant, the visual style of my current car just doesn't really appeal to me anymore.



I mean look at it, that's got kid's table written all over it

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Oh yeah, you bought a Juke huh? Those things are not terrible cars, but boy are their looks polarizing. Personally I think they'd look OK if those weird top-of-the-hood headlights were eliminated and they just used the lower headlights as the regular ones.

Well, it'd still look weird as hell, but it'd be improved a bit.

Part of the issue with recommending something to you is that you state a payment and not a budget. $300 a month could be a brand new car that cost $16k or a brand new car that cost $45k. "More grown up" is also really vague. You could mean you want a classy BMW, or maybe you mean you want a practical hot hatchback (but not in neon green), or maybe you mean you want a Lincoln towncar.

The range of 2 door coupe to small SUV covers basically every car short of a large SUV or a pickup truck I guess? There are a lot of nice cars man, we need more specifics if we're gonna recommend you something.

We also can't guess how much your tradein will be worth because we don't know how much is left on the note on your current car. You can use Edmonds to find out the estimated tradein value for your car based on its exact specs, mileage, and your zip code, and then subtract whatever you still owe, and that will give you a ballpark figure (but not really what you'll get for it a year from now).

Gizmos and features narrows it down a little, but surprisingly not that much. A premium stereo is typically available at higher trim levels on most cars, and you can of course add aftermarket audio to any car (often for less than what you pay for a factory premium stereo). Most new cars are very reliable, and that just leaves the performance thing which is why people are asking about that a bit.

PotatoManJack posted:

Proposed Budget: $40,000-$60,000 (AUD - we live in Australia)
New or Used: New
Body Style: 4 door sedan or posibly hatch. Definitely needs to be roomy enough to comfortably seat 4 adults
How will you be using the car? This will be our new primary car (but we will be keeping our old car as a 2nd one - a 2003 Toyota Corolla Wagon which will remain our dog transporter). Mostly used for short trips and on the weekend, as my wife and I take public transit to work.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Gizmos are definitely nice, but aren't required. However, standard of living things are definitely desired. To clarify, something like heated seat warmers or fancy clocks that tell the time in 3 countries not so much, but reverse cam, built in sat nav, and automatic breaking are nice.
What aspects are most important to you? 1. Safety - We are upgrading as we are about to have our first child 2. Reliability - We want to make sure that we won't be breaking down every other month 3. Running Costs - We all know that cars eventually need repairs, I don't want to have to pay $1500 to replace a spark plug because they need to order the part from Belgium.


Reposting this as I think it got lost on the last page - would love some advice

Most of us aren't in australia, so it might be harder to know exactly what $AUD50k will get you there. Most cars in that kind of price range here in the US are very safe. No new non-exotic car today will break down every other month, and since you're buying new, you can expect any issues to be covered by warranty. Most people overrate their need for reliability in a new car; if you follow the recommended maintenance schedule your chances of being stuck by the side of the road (due to manufacturer defect: all bets are off if you are hit by a bogan or a wallaby or whatever) more than once in the first five years of ownership are pretty drat low for virtually any new car.

Perhaps you would like a subaru? They have a good automatic braking system, which is part of why IIHS gives them a top safety rating, you can get plenty of space for a family, and you can probably buy a premium package model in your price range. The interior is not as nice as a BMW, though: maybe you'd like a BMW for more luxury, although they are a little less reliable (relatively speaking) and more expensive to maintain.

Or pick any other car on this list ordered by manufacturer that has automatic braking.

Otherwise, for a car with lots of gizmos, top safety ratings, great reliability, etc., you can go with the perennial thread favorite: the Toyota Prius.

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

quote:

Oh yeah, you bought a Juke huh? Those things are not terrible cars, but boy are their looks polarizing. Personally I think they'd look OK if those weird top-of-the-hood headlights were eliminated and they just used the lower headlights as the regular ones.

It's a pretty fun car to drive for sure - a lot more pep than the car I had before (an 06 Sentra). I also really liked the visual styling at first, but now not so much unfortunately. I'm not really sure what changed ha. The lights on the top of the hood actually look kinda cool at night from the driver's seat.

Leperflesh posted:


Part of the issue with recommending something to you is that you state a payment and not a budget. $300 a month could be a brand new car that cost $16k or a brand new car that cost $45k.

Oh, sorry for the confusion. The $275/mo I listed in my OP is what I pay for my Juke now, not what I'm looking to pay for a new car. I don't have a solid total value in mind at the moment (although taking some of nm's advice into consideration maybe 30k + or - 3k).

quote:

The range of 2 door coupe to small SUV covers basically every car short of a large SUV or a pickup truck I guess? There are a lot of nice cars man, we need more specifics if we're gonna recommend you something.

Yep! I'm not too picky I guess. I guess I get more for my money if I drop SUVs outta consideration so maybe larger 2 door coupes to smaller 4 door sedans? That's still a pretty big range, though. I'm not super into the whole "sports car" look when it comes to coupes if that helps any.

quote:

We also can't guess how much your tradein will be worth because we don't know how much is left on the note on your current car. You can use Edmonds to find out the estimated tradein value for your car based on its exact specs, mileage, and your zip code, and then subtract whatever you still owe, and that will give you a ballpark figure (but not really what you'll get for it a year from now).

I'm for sure not going to buy a new car until I finish paying this one off. Right now Edmunds says trade-in is 17k (I estimated the mileage I expect to be at next year as well). So conservatively 13k? Like you implied, a lot can change in a year.

quote:

Gizmos and features narrows it down a little, but surprisingly not that much. A premium stereo is typically available at higher trim levels on most cars, and you can of course add aftermarket audio to any car (often for less than what you pay for a factory premium stereo). Most new cars are very reliable, and that just leaves the performance thing which is why people are asking about that a bit.

Like I posted above, I'm definitely getting an AT so when I say handling/performance I only mean so in the most basic sense. Just something with some pep in its step. After looking over the BRZ that nm suggested, it looks like it covers most of the bases tech-wise that I was looking for (except I don't think I saw a backup camera, gotta have one of those).

Traitorous Leopard fucked around with this message at 08:09 on May 20, 2014

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Volvo S60/V60, Buick Regal, Acura TSX/TSX wagon. Although this is the last year they're going to make them.

All are "nice" without being "try-hard", from brands without any weird negative baggage. The Acura's reliability and resale can't be beat but it's a little dated now with the 2.4l NA engine and a 5 speed auto.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

PotatoManJack posted:

Proposed Budget: $40,000-$60,000 (AUD - we live in Australia)
New or Used: New
Body Style: 4 door sedan or posibly hatch. Definitely needs to be roomy enough to comfortably seat 4 adults
How will you be using the car? This will be our new primary car (but we will be keeping our old car as a 2nd one - a 2003 Toyota Corolla Wagon which will remain our dog transporter). Mostly used for short trips and on the weekend, as my wife and I take public transit to work.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Gizmos are definitely nice, but aren't required. However, standard of living things are definitely desired. To clarify, something like heated seat warmers or fancy clocks that tell the time in 3 countries not so much, but reverse cam, built in sat nav, and automatic breaking are nice.
What aspects are most important to you? 1. Safety - We are upgrading as we are about to have our first child 2. Reliability - We want to make sure that we won't be breaking down every other month 3. Running Costs - We all know that cars eventually need repairs, I don't want to have to pay $1500 to replace a spark plug because they need to order the part from Belgium.


Reposting this as I think it got lost on the last page - would love some advice

Automatic braking? I'm guessing you mean something like Volvo's City Safety system which uses cameras to detect poo poo in front of you that you are about to hit and will brake for you. Subaru has a similar system too I gather. That's just as well because those 2 brands are also tops in crash safety as well. So I guess go test drive some Volvos/Subarus and decide which body style works best for you. I don't think there are any other cheaper brands that offer this technology.

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

Throatwarbler posted:

Volvo S60/V60, Buick Regal, Acura TSX/TSX wagon. Although this is the last year they're going to make them.

All are "nice" without being "try-hard", from brands without any weird negative baggage. The Acura's reliability and resale can't be beat but it's a little dated now with the 2.4l NA engine and a 5 speed auto.

My buddy has a fairly recent model Acura TL that I'm pretty fond of so I'll definitely check out the TSX. Their site lists the TLX as a new one coming out this year that looks cool as well. The reliability point is a big one, too.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect
That Acura is going to be another 40k car, if you only trade in your payment is going to be $600 a month for 4 years. You can do it but you're going to be giving a lot up to drive a particular car for 30 minutes everyday. Think of what you could do with that much money per month.

Zombie Plague
Oct 31, 2009

I WENT TO E3 TO FIND MY DREAM JOB IN THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY.

WOMEN WHO WON'T FUCK ME WHEN I DO NICE THINGS FOR THEM ARE CUNTS.

I AM A PATHETIC WASTE OF OXYGEN.
Sell me on buying a Honda Civic versus a Toyota Corolla. I just need to buy a daily driver that's a few years old so I don't take the hit on depreciation.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Uncle Jam posted:

That Acura is going to be another 40k car, if you only trade in your payment is going to be $600 a month for 4 years. You can do it but you're going to be giving a lot up to drive a particular car for 30 minutes everyday. Think of what you could do with that much money per month.

Don't know if you are referring to the TSX but even a Sportwagon with every single option is nowhere near $40k.



Considering it's the final year of that model and they are going to be discounting them to make room for the new TLX.


Zombie Plague posted:

Sell me on buying a Honda Civic versus a Toyota Corolla. I just need to buy a daily driver that's a few years old so I don't take the hit on depreciation.

Don't buy either. Buy something that actually depreciates?

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Zombie Plague posted:

Sell me on buying a Honda Civic versus a Toyota Corolla. I just need to buy a daily driver that's a few years old so I don't take the hit on depreciation.

If you want to buy a car that doesn't take a hit on depreciation, but a new Honda Fit or something like that. Both of the cars you listed depreciate incredibly slow, making used ones a bad deal comparatively.

Do you want a cheap to own midsize vehicle that's extremely reliable, and don't give a poo poo about driving experience? Find a nice used Prius.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect

Throatwarbler posted:

Don't know if you are referring to the TSX but even a Sportwagon with every single option is nowhere near $40k.



Considering it's the final year of that model and they are going to be discounting them to make room for the new TLX.


Don't buy either. Buy something that actually depreciates?

The TLX is replacing the TL as far as I know, which starts at 37 and def goes up. I don't think he's going g for the base model either.

I agree the tsx is a more reasonable car to top out in considering the salary.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Traitorous Leopard posted:

Appreciate the input. I'll definitely get a better handle on what my finances look like between now and some time next year - I'm mostly just window shopping at this point and trying to get an idea of what I should look into more when I do want to buy.

I'm going to go anti-BFC and go against the grain of this thread for a moment and say gently caress it all. You're a high earning kid with no family responsibilities right now, go lease a fun as gently caress car to drive and drat the payment. You have the rest of your life to make smart financial decisions and drive more practical cars. Have fun now, if your life takes the traditional wife->kids etc route the next time you'll get to own an impractical car is sometime around 50 years old. If the experience is important to you now is the time to do it.

Go lease a M235i coupe, Audi S4 or something else that tickles your fancy, and come back and tell us how much fun it is.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Uncle Jam posted:

The TLX is replacing the TL as far as I know, which starts at 37 and def goes up. I don't think he's going g for the base model either.

I agree the tsx is a more reasonable car to top out in considering the salary.

The TLX is going to be replacing both the TSX and the TL - The base TLX will be a 2.4l 4 cylinder, same as the TSX, while the TL came with a V6 standard and AWD available.

That being said I was curious and looked up the TL on Truecar.



Sheeeit that's not much more than an Accord V6.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Zombie Plague posted:

Sell me on buying a Honda Civic versus a Toyota Corolla. I just need to buy a daily driver that's a few years old so I don't take the hit on depreciation.

If you're trying to not take the hit on depreciation, those might be the two worst possible cars you could pick. Because they are perceived by the market as being the worlds' most reliable economy cars, a good example less than five years old will be very expensive compared to equivalent cars from other manufacturers.

On the other hand, they're excellent cars, so it's not like you'd be making a terrible decision! You're just going to get less car for the same amount of money; either higher miles, or worse condition, due to that market perception.

Generally, it's smart to buy a car that is a few years old to avoid the depreciation hit compared to buying a brand new car. The civic, corolla, and I guess also camry and accord, are among the very few cars that are probably worth buying new instead, since you save so little on them buying lightly-used.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect

Throatwarbler posted:

The TLX is going to be replacing both the TSX and the TL - The base TLX will be a 2.4l 4 cylinder, same as the TSX, while the TL came with a V6 standard and AWD available.

That being said I was curious and looked up the TL on Truecar.



Sheeeit that's not much more than an Accord V6.

Whelp rip all wagons then.

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

I appreciate all the help fellas. I'm definitely gonna keep an eye on the TSX and see what it does price-wise when the TLX comes out. Depending on how affordable the TLX is, I'll keep that one in mind as well. Does anyone have any ideas on what the price point will be for the TLX? Is it expected to be between the TSX and TL or likely higher than the TL?


skipdogg posted:

I'm going to go anti-BFC and go against the grain of this thread for a moment and say gently caress it all. You're a high earning kid with no family responsibilities right now, go lease a fun as gently caress car to drive and drat the payment. You have the rest of your life to make smart financial decisions and drive more practical cars. Have fun now, if your life takes the traditional wife->kids etc route the next time you'll get to own an impractical car is sometime around 50 years old. If the experience is important to you now is the time to do it.

Go lease a M235i coupe, Audi S4 or something else that tickles your fancy, and come back and tell us how much fun it is.

Ha, this is the kinda advice I wanna see!

The OP mentions that leasing is pretty much always a bad idea, though. What if, hypothetically, I was interested in getting a new car every 3-4 years - is it still better to buy and trade-in than to lease?

Traitorous Leopard fucked around with this message at 21:55 on May 20, 2014

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

I'm personally a big fan of leasing *If it fits your lifestyle*. From a BFC perspective any kind of newer vehicle isn't the best way to spend your money, but for folks that like to spend some of their disposable income on driving a newer car, I believe it is the way to go as long as you fit certain criteria.

1: You like driving new cars
2: You want to keep your car for about 3 years (33 to 39 months).
3: You do not drive more than 15,000 miles a year
4: You have excellent credit.

If all four of the above statements are true, leasing is the best way for you to own a car.

There are two excellent posts about leasing. One from Throatwarbler, and another from myself.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538&userid=143660#post368677717

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=418852871&forumid=158

If you have a specific vehicle in mind, I'd be more than happy to run the numbers for you.

Traitorous Leopard
Jul 20, 2009

skipdogg posted:

I'm personally a big fan of leasing *If it fits your lifestyle*. From a BFC perspective any kind of newer vehicle isn't the best way to spend your money, but for folks that like to spend some of their disposable income on driving a newer car, I believe it is the way to go as long as you fit certain criteria.

1: You like driving new cars
2: You want to keep your car for about 3 years (33 to 39 months).
3: You do not drive more than 15,000 miles a year
4: You have excellent credit.

If all four of the above statements are true, leasing is the best way for you to own a car.

There are two excellent posts about leasing. One from Throatwarbler, and another from myself.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538&userid=143660#post368677717

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&postid=418852871&forumid=158

If you have a specific vehicle in mind, I'd be more than happy to run the numbers for you.

drat, those posts were super helpful. Leasing is another thing to keep in mind I guess! Just for a general example, would a car like an Acura that is known for keeping its resale value still be good to lease or is it better to purchase in that situation (just an in general sort of thing - I don't need hard numbers here)? I'm guessing a cars reputation for holding resale value is something that is taken into consideration when calculating the residual anyway?

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I was starting to wonder the same myself, about a Prius. I'd been told, and started to believe, that my leasing my current car was a terrible idea, but I've never been able to get past the fact that, well, I like new and shiny things. Probably irresponsible as hell, compared to getting a car and beating the hell out of itusing it responsibly for 5+ years, but I am what I am, I suppose. v:shobon:v

I've been trying so hard to learn about purchasing, different terms and traps, etc. that I have no idea what to look for in a lease anymore, though, except knowing(?) that I really hosed up from the word go by putting in $3000 at the start in cap cost reduction, thinking it was a down payment. :saddowns:

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 23:55 on May 20, 2014

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

I'm definitely considering leasing my next car. My historical average length of ownership has been about 3 years, at which point no matter how much I like the car I start to get car ADD and the itch to try something else. The downfall of being a car enthusiast, I guess.

Now that I'm far more financially secure with a stable high-paying job and have the disposable income to comfortably afford a $300-400/mo lease payment without cutting into savings/retirement goals it's an appealing option.

It especially makes sense in the entry-mid level luxury market where manufacturers subsidize their leases really heavily because they then get to turn around and sell their lease returns as marked-up CPO cars. I'd never lease a Civic or whatever.

It's in no way the most financially responsible decision, and I definitely do not advocate it as "the BFC way", but there's a lot more to the story than "leases are always bad" that is taught in personal finance 101.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 21, 2014

Zombie Plague
Oct 31, 2009

I WENT TO E3 TO FIND MY DREAM JOB IN THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY.

WOMEN WHO WON'T FUCK ME WHEN I DO NICE THINGS FOR THEM ARE CUNTS.

I AM A PATHETIC WASTE OF OXYGEN.

Leperflesh posted:

If you're trying to not take the hit on depreciation, those might be the two worst possible cars you could pick. Because they are perceived by the market as being the worlds' most reliable economy cars, a good example less than five years old will be very expensive compared to equivalent cars from other manufacturers.

On the other hand, they're excellent cars, so it's not like you'd be making a terrible decision! You're just going to get less car for the same amount of money; either higher miles, or worse condition, due to that market perception.

Generally, it's smart to buy a car that is a few years old to avoid the depreciation hit compared to buying a brand new car. The civic, corolla, and I guess also camry and accord, are among the very few cars that are probably worth buying new instead, since you save so little on them buying lightly-used.

Throatwarbler posted:

Don't know if you are referring to the TSX but even a Sportwagon with every single option is nowhere near $40k.



Considering it's the final year of that model and they are going to be discounting them to make room for the new TLX.


Don't buy either. Buy something that actually depreciates?

Twerk from Home posted:

If you want to buy a car that doesn't take a hit on depreciation, but a new Honda Fit or something like that. Both of the cars you listed depreciate incredibly slow, making used ones a bad deal comparatively.

Do you want a cheap to own midsize vehicle that's extremely reliable, and don't give a poo poo about driving experience? Find a nice used Prius.

This is both good advice, but I have my heart set on a Civic or a Corolla, because they're such good cars.

How old should I get the car, recognizing I won't save much.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Zombie Plague posted:

This is both good advice, but I have my heart set on a Civic or a Corolla, because they're such good cars.

How old should I get the car, recognizing I won't save much.

How about brand new? Get the Civic or Corolla you want, get more favorable financing terms from your lender of choice, and there's not really a price premium buying those new.

Are you open to considering other reliable, great small cars that actually depreciate a little bit like a Mazda 3 or Ford Focus?

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

Zombie Plague posted:

This is both good advice, but I have my heart set on a Civic or a Corolla, because they're such good cars.

How old should I get the car, recognizing I won't save much.

Yeah, for what it's worth, recent models of Mazda 3 (definitely) and the Ford Focus (probably) are frequently considered better cars than the Civic/Corolla.

Don't get me wrong, if you're heart is set on Civic/Corolla, get one. They're both fine cars, but be aware you're paying extra for a reputation that isn't necessarily true anymore.

Grumpwagon fucked around with this message at 17:41 on May 21, 2014

DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled
Just how disappointed would I be upgrading from my 98 Civic DX coupe to a new or new-ish Civic coupe? I'm a big fan of the cheap insurance, killer gas mileage and ease of repair for most things. I prefer to do my own repairs when possible, though I'd definitely take advantage of the warranty if applicable. I do a lot of driving for work and receive a mileage compensation so the less I spend on gas, the more money ends up in my pocket. Has Honda really gone that far downhill?

HolyDukeNukem
Sep 10, 2008

DELETED posted:

Just how disappointed would I be upgrading from my 98 Civic DX coupe to a new or new-ish Civic coupe? I'm a big fan of the cheap insurance, killer gas mileage and ease of repair for most things. I prefer to do my own repairs when possible, though I'd definitely take advantage of the warranty if applicable. I do a lot of driving for work and receive a mileage compensation so the less I spend on gas, the more money ends up in my pocket. Has Honda really gone that far downhill?

In all honesty, I don't think it's that Honda or Toyota have gone downhill, in so much as Mazda has gotten pretty drat good. Ford's are probably a step down, but the parts to fix them are dirt cheap, so the maintenance isn't too bad either. I own a new Mazda3 Hatch and it has been absolutely amazing to drive, the interior is well made (with the exception or the media system which kind of looks like a decent third party heads up unit), it gets amazing gas mileage, and is fun to drive. There is a reason why the Mazda3 and Mazda6 have been getting car of the year awards, they are legitimately good cars.

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

DELETED posted:

Just how disappointed would I be upgrading from my 98 Civic DX coupe to a new or new-ish Civic coupe? I'm a big fan of the cheap insurance, killer gas mileage and ease of repair for most things. I prefer to do my own repairs when possible, though I'd definitely take advantage of the warranty if applicable. I do a lot of driving for work and receive a mileage compensation so the less I spend on gas, the more money ends up in my pocket. Has Honda really gone that far downhill?

Going from a 98 anything to a newish anything will probably not be disappointing. I don't think Honda/Toyota have gone terribly downhill so much as a few other makers have gotten a lot better (obviously not GM). Like you can buy a Korean car these days and it probably won't fall apart on you.

You should really consider taking a Mazda 3 and/or Focus for a spin, the Honda/Toyota tax buys you less than it used to.

gp2k
Apr 22, 2008
Hi BFC/AI,

Proposed Budget: <35k
New or Used: new
Body Style: SUV/crossovery-type vehicle
How will you be using the car?: A little bit of in-city driving during the week, and a once a week round-trip to a neighboring city 100 miles away.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?: It has to be comfortable; my partner wants heated seats, and leather would be really great. Bluetooth speakerphone is necessary for phone calls during that long roundtrip each week.
What aspects are most important to you? Comfort, driver has to sit up high, sort of fun to drive, gas mileage has to be reasonable, though I'm ok trading a few MPG for other aspects of the vehicle. I want it to be reliable and last a long time, as I have no intention of selling it or trading it in (I basically keep vehicles forever).

I've been looking on Edmunds and spending this past weekend window shopping at various auto dealers. Thus far I've looked at the RAV4, CRV, some Kia and Hyandai compact/mid-sized SUVs, and also the Jeep Cherokee. I've completely fallen in love with the 2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited. (JEEP OWNERS: DON'T READ THE NEXT SENTENCE) Configured with FWD and the V4 engine, it gets a pretty decent 31 MPG highway. It looks like I could get a limited for about $26k as well, which is great since even with tax, title, etc it would still be well under my budget.

Sitting in the CRV I was struck by two things: how intuitive and well-thought out the features are (like the folding seats), and also how incredibly cheap the interior felt. It was like they wrapped the thinnest leather they could find over some lightweight folding chairs. I wasn't very happy with the Kia or Hyundai either, even though they have a great warranty.

Does anyone know how expensive Jeeps are to (1) repair, and (2) to maintain?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Generally when someone has requirements similar to yours I point them towards the Ford Edge. One in SEL or Limited trim checks all your boxes. They won't get close to 31 mpg though.

gp2k
Apr 22, 2008

skipdogg posted:

Generally when someone has requirements similar to yours I point them towards the Ford Edge. One in SEL or Limited trim checks all your boxes. They won't get close to 31 mpg though.

Thanks for this pointer--I will definitely check one out this upcoming weekend. The Edge is pretty expensive though (about $5k more than the Cherokee). Do you have a sense for what you get for that extra money? A V6 instead of a V4? The Edge does look like it has a lot of interesting technological features in it.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

I'm not familiar at all with the latest Jeep Cherokee so I can't really say much about it.

The only concern I have with the Jeep is it's a brand new for 2014 model, and sometimes first model year runs run into some issues at the start. The drive train is also all new. It's a new iteration of the Tigershark engine, and the new 9 speed transmission. No real data exists to say how well built they are.

Either car will probably make you happy, and suit your needs. Generally people like the Dodge UConnect infotainment system better than the My Ford Touch. I suggest taking both for a decent test drive including getting up to and cruising at highway speeds and see which one you like better.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


HolyDukeNukem posted:

In all honesty, I don't think it's that Honda or Toyota have gone downhill, in so much as Mazda has gotten pretty drat good. Ford's are probably a step down, but the parts to fix them are dirt cheap, so the maintenance isn't too bad either. I own a new Mazda3 Hatch and it has been absolutely amazing to drive, the interior is well made (with the exception or the media system which kind of looks like a decent third party heads up unit), it gets amazing gas mileage, and is fun to drive. There is a reason why the Mazda3 and Mazda6 have been getting car of the year awards, they are legitimately good cars.

I had completely forgotten Mazda exists, personally :v:. I may give one of those 3 hatchbacks a try this weekend, I like what I see on the internet. Still leaning towards a Prius at the moment, though, pending a test drive.

Question about leasing, is it financially more sound to lease a car that keeps more of its value over the three years (higher residual), or less? I would have thought the former, but I got some indication yesterday that that's not the case?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

It really depends to be honest. Cars that tend to have higher residuals, tend to sell for closer to MSRP. Some cars that have slightly lower residuals often have incentives and sell for less than MSRP. What you really have to focus on is the difference between what you pay for the car, and the residual value, as that is the amount of money you are financing and what ultimately affects your monthly payment. You want your cap costs as low as possible.

Here's an example, the numbers are very close, but not exact. This is very similar to a decision my wife and I made last October when we leased a new SUV.

3 year lease, 12,000 miles a year.

Car 1: Ford Explorer Sport. MSRP 49,615 Residual: 54%

Car 2: Acura MDX AWD with Tech Package MSRP: 48,565 Residual: 57%

The Ford sells for close to invoice if you shop around, and also has a 2250 dollar lease incentive on the car right now. ( I live within 30 minutes of 6 different Ford dealers)

The Acura sells for a little bit more than invoice, and there is only 1 Acura dealer within 30 minutes of where I live, so there isn't much competition. There is also no incentive on the lease right now.

Our purchase price on the vehicles are as follows

Ford Explorer Sport: 47500 (negotiated discount off MSRP) - 2250 lease incentive = 45250

Acura MDX AWD w/Tech: 47000 (negotiated discount off MSRP)

Now we figure our residual values, depreciation cost, and our monthly depreciation payment.

Ford: MSRP 49,615 * .54 = 26,792.10 45,250 - 26,792.10 = 18,457.90 /36 = 512.72

Acura: MSRP 48,565 * .57 = 27,682.05 48,565 - 27,682.05 = 20,882.95 /36 = 580.08

I didn't take into account things like interest rates on the financing, taxes, fees, or anything else as those vary from state to state.

So as you can see the details in the deal make the difference. Even though the Acura holds it's value better, the Ford is less expensive to lease by almost 70 dollars a month thanks to being able to negotiate a lower price up front and the lease incentive offered by Ford. I tried to use cars that are very similar and have similar price points for this example.

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


That actually made sense to me, somehow. I'll be damned. :v:

I asked earlier about why cap cost reduction ("down") payments were supposedly a bad idea, and reading your post I feel like I've almost got my finger on the answer, but it keeps slipping from me. Money is hard :saddowns:


(edit) Aw, the 2L Mazda 3 doesn't offer the xenon headlights. I like those, but I don't want to pay for the 2.5L just for prettier bloody lights :(

Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 22, 2014

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