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uh This poll is closed. |
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| embiid |
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41 | 32.28% |
| wiggins |
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86 | 67.72% |
| Total: | 127 votes | ||
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Cleveland was trying to sick tradez everyone last year with their #1 and no one bit on their (rumored) ridiculous asking price. I wonder if they try that again this year.
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May 21, 2014 20:04
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Doltos posted:Cleveland was trying to sick tradez everyone last year with their #1 and no one bit on their (rumored) ridiculous asking price. I wonder if they try that again this year. Well Chris Grant is gone so hopefully we just do the sane thing and take Wiggins.
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May 21, 2014 20:08
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MourningView posted:The Cavs got bluffed into drafting Dion Waiters by a lottery promise his agent completely made up, don't even act like they can't be tricked into drafting a crippled center. Ah gently caress I completely forgot about this and here I was wondering why "Cleveland will gently caress this up lol  " was the theme of the thread
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May 21, 2014 20:13
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Doltos posted:Cleveland was trying to sick tradez everyone last year with their #1 and no one bit on their (rumored) ridiculous asking price. I wonder if they try that again this year. This year's No. 1 + future picks + a few prospects might be the best Minnesota could get for Love, though even Cleveland might not be stupid enough to do that trade without an extension.
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May 21, 2014 20:15
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morestuff posted:This year's No. 1 + future picks + a few prospects might be the best Minnesota could get for Love, though even Cleveland might not be stupid enough to do that trade without an extension. Ahem, Cleveland stupid trade attempts involve them trying to get the best player + picks (unless the pick involved super-lovely). Minnesota will give us Love (with an extension) and three first rounders for our first next year and a couple second rounders or no dice.
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May 21, 2014 20:18
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Cleveland's new GM hasn't done anything stupid yet to warrant all of the speculation about the Cavs blowing it. So far it's all just based on "lol Cleveland." I'm hopeful they'll just grab Wiggins and continue building from there. Griffin, why'd you have to say that "all options are on the table"? Now everyone assumes you're itching to trade the pick instead of recognizing that you made a pointless non-statement.
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May 21, 2014 20:21
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morestuff posted:This year's No. 1 + future picks + a few prospects might be the best Minnesota could get for Love, though even Cleveland might not be stupid enough to do that trade without an extension. I'm as off the "Panic Trade Love" bandwagon as you can get and I would green light the No. 1 + filler in this draft for him. You probably wouldn't need to toss in anything of value. Maybe Waiters to save face on the pick. Love was in those commercials with Irving so maybe he'd be happy there? They'd basically be a 2nd round team in the East right away.
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May 21, 2014 20:23
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morestuff posted:This year's No. 1 + future picks + a few prospects might be the best Minnesota could get for Love, though even Cleveland might not be stupid enough to do that trade without an extension. I like Love and all, but no one should trade the #1 pick in this year's draft for him. Especially when there is no guarantee that he will be with you for more than a year.
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May 21, 2014 20:23
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Niwrad posted:I like Love and all, but no one should trade the #1 pick in this year's draft for him. Especially when there is no guarantee that he will be with you for more than a year. Well without the long term guarantee, definitely not, but getting a star with the #1 pick is the goal and well, kevin love is already a star. If he were in this draft somehow, he'd easily get taken number 1
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May 21, 2014 20:31
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The thing with draft picks is you have them under control for 7 years and often at a rate under market value.
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May 21, 2014 20:34
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Niwrad posted:The thing with draft picks is you have them under control for 7 years and often at a rate under market value. It's 2 years guaranteed, 2 years team option, 1 year RFA. So its 4 year of control, and 1 year of drivers seat. Not sure where you get 7, unless your saying the draft pick HAS to sign max first contract, which they usually do but don't have to.
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May 21, 2014 20:37
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Niwrad posted:The thing with draft picks is you have them under control for 7 years and often at a rate under market value. Yeah, I'd rather have 20 year old Wiggins for 7 years at way below his value and hopefully build something than Kevin Love for 20+ million a year, especially given that the last thing Cleveland needs is a known locker room problem with a huge head. Lockback posted:It's 2 years guaranteed, 2 years team option, 1 year RFA. So its 4 year of control, and 1 year of drivers seat. Not sure where you get 7, unless your saying the draft pick HAS to sign max first contract, which they usually do but don't have to. It's extraordinarily rare for a good player to walk away from their first extension in order to play for a different team. Icy Penguigo fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 20:37
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Icy Penguigo posted:Yeah, I'd rather have 20 year old Wiggins for 7 years at way below his value and hopefully build something than Kevin Love for 20+ million a year, especially given that the last thing Cleveland needs is a known locker room problem with a huge head. Love is at 15 mil next year and that only raises about 1 mil a year. It's well below his real value too. Wiggins/Embiid will take a few years to develop too. If they want to compete right away, those guys probably aren't a great answer. Probably way smarter long-haul though.
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May 21, 2014 20:40
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Well sure but maybe Wiggins or Embiid won't ever be as good as love. I get that having control over players is great but winning is also very good and kevin love would do wonders to help a bad team win.
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May 21, 2014 20:41
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Lockback posted:Love is at 15 mil next year and that only raises about 1 mil a year. It's well below his real value too. Wiggins/Embiid will take a few years to develop too. If they want to compete right away, those guys probably aren't a great answer. Probably way smarter long-haul though. I agree that if they want to win NOW NOW NOW Love is the better option, but they're not built to do that at all, even with Love. Edit: And by built to do that I mean they wouldn't be a championship contender. They'd definitely make the playoffs and probably get out of the first round.
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May 21, 2014 20:42
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Embiid's agents are smart. Drop his draft stock to save his future.
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May 21, 2014 20:42
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the_american_dream posted:Ah gently caress I completely forgot about this and here I was wondering why "Cleveland will gently caress this up lol That, Bennett, Thompson. It's a proud history.
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May 21, 2014 20:43
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why would the cavs want embiid or wiggins when they could make uncle drew a reality? trade the #1 for love, dion for nate robinson, and draft maya with your second rounder. hell yea.
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May 21, 2014 20:45
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Time posted:Also he can't shoot for poo poo so the Shane battier comp seems off Shane Battier wasn't much of a shooter when he was young either, thus "young Shane Battier."
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May 21, 2014 20:54
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MourningView posted:That, Bennett, Thompson. It's a proud history. Woah, woah, woah. Thompson has turned out perfectly fine. Don't even begin to compare him to Waiters and Bennett.
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May 21, 2014 20:57
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Rick posted:Shane Battier wasn't much of a shooter when he was young either, thus "young Shane Battier." Your actually right. My Bad! B-Ref is a wonderful tool that I forget exists until after I post sometimes.
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May 21, 2014 20:59
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Great White Hope posted:Woah, woah, woah. Thompson has turned out perfectly fine. Don't even begin to compare him to Waiters and Bennett. He's fine. He was not worth the draft pick they spent on him, and was a reach even at the time. I'd rather have Valanciunas, who they had been projected by most people to take.
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May 21, 2014 21:02
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Thompson is a serviceable big man who was drafted because he beat Derrick Williams in 1-on-1 sessions during their team workouts
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May 21, 2014 21:03
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Lockback posted:It's 2 years guaranteed, 2 years team option, 1 year RFA. So its 4 year of control, and 1 year of drivers seat. Not sure where you get 7, unless your saying the draft pick HAS to sign max first contract, which they usually do but don't have to. I don't think there has ever been a star who took the qualifying offer and left as an unrestricted free agent. You can basically keep a star player for 7 years unless they are willing to take a massive risk by playing on that QO. I would rather have 7 guaranteed years of Wiggins than 1 year of Love and a hope he wants to stay in a city where players don't usually want to stay.
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May 21, 2014 21:04
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Niwrad posted:I would rather have 7 guaranteed years of Wiggins than 1 year of Love and a hope he wants to stay in a city where players don't usually want to stay. Are you talking about The Timberwolves or The Cavs here?
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May 21, 2014 21:08
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IcePhoenix posted:Are you talking about The Timberwolves or The Cavs here? Both. The #1 pick in this draft is more valuable than 1 season of Kevin Love and a hope he stays.
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May 21, 2014 21:12
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MourningView posted:That, Bennett, Thompson. It's a proud history. None of those picks are as bad as some people think they are. Bennett had a historically awful year and was part of a historically awful draft in which only one of the players in the top 7 had an even mediocre year, the rest were all awful or hurt. If they had chosen Otto Porter, people would be making GBS threads on that pick, and if they had taken Noel, Zeller, or Olynk people would be making GBS threads on that, too. When Waiters was picked people were mad that they didn't choose Barnes, and a few people thought they should've taken Robinson (lol.) Neither of those picks would've turned out better than Waiters for the Cavs and if you pretend you've been on the Drummond band wagon all along you're probably a liar. They couldn't draft Lillard and the next players drafted were Terrence Ross and Austin Rivers. Ross would've been a huge reach, too. Thompson was surrounded by awful picks and has been the 3rd or 4th best pick in that entire lottery, at worst. The 6 picks after him were Jonas V, who looks like he'll be great but was no guarantee to come over, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Jimmer Fredette, Brandon Knight, and Kemba Walker. People poo poo on the Cavs a lot for whatever reason but they haven't drafted badly given the players available since the Lebron fiasco.
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May 21, 2014 21:16
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I actually don't think they would poo poo on Noel because everyone knew he was a lost year.
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May 21, 2014 21:27
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Speaking of which how would Noel + Embiid shake out?
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May 21, 2014 21:29
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Icy Penguigo posted:Bennett had a historically awful year and was part of a historically awful draft in which only one of the players in the top 7 had an even mediocre year, the rest were all awful or hurt. If they had chosen Otto Porter, people would be making GBS threads on that pick, and if they had taken Noel, Zeller, or Olynk people would be making GBS threads on that, too. They picked first. Those were not the only options available to them. No one would have poo poo on them for taking Noel, which they didn't do only because they delusionally considered themselves to be a playoff team. And there is a big gap between "mediocre" and "historically bad" which is what Bennett was. Oladipo, for example, while not especially great, would have been a perfectly acceptable top pick and a lot better than Bennett. quote:When Waiters was picked people were mad that they didn't choose Barnes, and a few people thought they should've taken Robinson (lol.) Neither of those picks would've turned out better than Waiters for the Cavs and if you pretend you've been on the Drummond band wagon all along you're probably a liar. They couldn't draft Lillard and the next players drafted were Terrence Ross and Austin Rivers. Ross would've been a huge reach, too. The reason they drafted Waiters was incredibly silly, and I'd much rather have Barnes. And they should be held to a higher standard when it comes to overlooking Drummond that Average Internet Fan, because the average person on the internet is not being paid a huge salary to project how basketball players will turn out. quote:Thompson was surrounded by awful picks and has been the 3rd or 4th best pick in that entire lottery, at worst. The 6 picks after him were Jonas V, who looks like he'll be great but was no guarantee to come over, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Jimmer Fredette, Brandon Knight, and Kemba Walker. Jonas was always going to come over, he just wasn't going to come over that year. That shouldn't matter to the Cavs, who were in no position to compete anyway. He would have been a much better pick, and was the guy they were linked to for most of the process. Doltos posted:Speaking of which how would Noel + Embiid shake out? Embiid and it's not all that close. He is not quite as disruptive defensively, but it's not a huge gap, and he's lightyears ahead of where Noel is on offense. They both have injury concerns too. MourningView fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 21:35
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PantsFreeZone posted:The Cleveland Cavaliers are going to screw up yet another #1 pick. What are the mathematical odds of them getting 3 #1s in 5 years? Five teams have been in the last four draft lotteries and here are the odds for each of them to get #1 in four consecutive years: 1 in 13,728 Cavaliers 1 in 63,885 Kings 1 in 1,357,045 Pistons 1 in 3,565,091 Timberwolves 1 in 46,694,444 Suns Odds of the five teams doing what the Cavs did (2011, 2013 and 2014 #1 picks with another team winning in 2012). 1 in 1,927 Cavaliers 1 in 5,257 Kings 1 in 23,470 Pistons 1 in 39,652 Timberwolves 1 in 281,803 Suns
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May 21, 2014 21:38
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MourningView posted:Embiid and it's not all that close. He is not quite as disruptive defensively, but it's not a huge gap, and he's lightyears ahead of where Noel is on offense. They both have injury concerns too. I think he meant in tandem, in which... eh, I don't think that's a great combo. Lot of size, sure, and maybe rises hopes of the Robinson/Duncan Spurs, but neither are super-great jump shooters (though for size, they're not too bad), so you'd be giving up a lot on that end of offense.
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May 21, 2014 21:41
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I know the popular SAS hivemind thing is "lol cavs gonna gently caress up" but we do have a new GM finally who isn't Chris Grant or Danny Ferry. He did the Hawes trade which has worked out fairly well all things considered, and I'm pretty sure the entire town would riot if he traded that pick at this point since everyone wants Wiggins or Embiid based on what I'm reading. I think Wiggins would do more just because he's a more complete player right now and can be a perimeter defender for a team that sorely needs one.
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May 21, 2014 21:41
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Probably Magic posted:I think he meant in tandem, in which... eh, I don't think that's a great combo. Lot of size, sure, and maybe rises hopes of the Robinson/Duncan Spurs, but neither are super-great jump shooters (though for size, they're not too bad), so you'd be giving up a lot on that end of offense. I don't think it'd be that bad. Embiid has show flashes of being able to operate from the high post.
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May 21, 2014 21:42
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MourningView posted:I don't think it'd be that bad. Embiid has show flashes of being able to operate from the high post. What about space offensively for the guards/wings? Wouldn't Embiid and Noel clog the lane?
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May 21, 2014 21:44
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Can someone explain what happened with Dion Waiters' agent influencing the pick because it sounds like a very lol moment.
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May 21, 2014 21:44
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Bigass Moth posted:Can someone explain what happened with Dion Waiters' agent influencing the pick because it sounds like a very lol moment. Dion Waiters agent completely shut him down during the Combine and refused to do any workouts or interviews. People assumed he had a promise from some team in the lottery but no one knew who. Cleveland panicked and took him at #4 (because someone else will snatch him from us if we trade down!), which was considered a reach at the time. It's pretty amazing because usually from the Combine to the draft a player's faults and short comings are put under a microscope. In Waiters' case his agent completely turned this around and used mystery to build his hype
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May 21, 2014 21:48
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Doltos posted:What about space offensively for the guards/wings? Wouldn't Embiid and Noel clog the lane?
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May 21, 2014 21:49
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Zogo posted:Five teams have been in the last four draft lotteries and here are the odds for each of them to get #1 in four consecutive years: I don't believe in the rigging stuff but maybe they should have rules in place to prevent stuff like this (though it's not gonna happen, a lot of people like the randomness), like if your draft pick was top 3 you can't have a top 3 pick the next year (even if your top 3 pick the previous year wasn't yours but was traded to another team). Just a speculation not saying it's a good idea at all, just an idea. There's just so many injustices lol. It's not necessarily bad it was Cleveland though. At least online Cavs fans seem pretty cool, if any of the major city franchises got the first pick their fanbases, exclusing SAS you guys are cool, would be incredibly insufferable. thegoonofaudio fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 21:49
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MourningView posted:They picked first. Those were not the only options available to them. No one would have poo poo on them for taking Noel, which they didn't do only because they delusionally considered themselves to be a playoff team. And there is a big gap between "mediocre" and "historically bad" which is what Bennett was. Oladipo, for example, while not especially great, would have been a perfectly acceptable top pick and a lot better than Bennett. MourningView posted:The reason they drafted Waiters was incredibly silly, and I'd much rather have Barnes. And they should be held to a higher standard when it comes to overlooking Drummond that Average Internet Fan, because the average person on the internet is not being paid a huge salary to project how basketball players will turn out. MourningView posted:Jonas was always going to come over, he just wasn't going to come over that year. That shouldn't matter to the Cavs, who were in no position to compete anyway. He would have been a much better pick, and was the guy they were linked to for most of the process. It wouldn't have been the first time a player said they'd come over and then didn't. He needed a buyout and it wasn't a sure thing. Again, it's easy to say in hindsight that he was the obvious pick, but Thompson was the safer option and wound up being a perfectly serviceable big. "They took the safest player available and he became a decent starter" is hardly a knock on a team's draft record. V shows flashes but he hasn't been worlds better than Thompson anyway. Thompson is averaging almost a double-double, his defense has improved, and his FT shooting has improved dramatically each year he's been in the league. Jonas has looked marginally better than Thompson on fewer minutes with a better team.
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May 21, 2014 21:52
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