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Skwirl posted:Is it just a passport stamp?   
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May 24, 2014 03:48
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redbackground posted:Other worlds got them too: I just meant it's been a while since I read the comic, and was there any panels featuring Young Avengers actually in Earth 1? Or was it just the passport stamp? Edit, my tablet sucks.
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May 24, 2014 04:02
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redbackground posted:Other worlds got them too: Earth 54 is the disco earth 
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May 24, 2014 04:13
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Skwirl posted:I just meant it's been a while since I read the comic, and was there any panels featuring Young Avengers actually in Earth 1? Or was it just the passport stamp?
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May 24, 2014 04:16
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Vincent posted:Earth 54 is the disco earth
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May 24, 2014 04:39
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CapnAndy posted:Earth 212 was the Everything Is New York Earth, there were some very clever ones. Was there an Earth 2112? 
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May 24, 2014 05:21
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I liked it in the Crisis on Two Earths animated movie when Earth Prime wasn't anything special, and in fact wasn't even alive anymore because they did something cataclysmic that threw their planet clear out of its orbit. Maybe Earth-1's the same, it's just some random schlub universe where Popeye eats kale instead of spinach or Earth is the fourth planet from the sun but otherwise nothing's changed.
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May 24, 2014 07:51
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I know that Marvel's multiverse has a universe for every single alternate continuity and What-If under the Marvel banner. Is DC's multiverse the same way with Elseworlds? Like, is there a distinct canonical Red Son universe or Kingdom Come universe?
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May 24, 2014 14:01
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McSpanky posted:I liked it in the Crisis on Two Earths animated movie when Earth Prime wasn't anything special, and in fact wasn't even alive anymore because they did something cataclysmic that threw their planet clear out of its orbit. Maybe Earth-1's the same, it's just some random schlub universe where Popeye eats kale instead of spinach or Earth is the fourth planet from the sun but otherwise nothing's changed. I assumed Earth-1 was the Earth-1 and it was just a gentle nudge in the ribs for the reader. Lord Hydronium posted:I know that Marvel's multiverse has a universe for every single alternate continuity and What-If under the Marvel banner. Is DC's multiverse the same way with Elseworlds? Like, is there a distinct canonical Red Son universe or Kingdom Come universe? Uh-oh. Someone just opened the  .The answer is yes, then no, then they said no while making the answer yes, then yes but they called it something else, then no, then yes but only fifty-two of them, then no again, and currently yes with fifty-two again. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 14:04 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 14:02
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DC really hates multiple universes for some reason and has had massive company wide crossovers to merge alternate realities and reset continuities 3 (?) times.
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May 24, 2014 19:00
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Except when they don't and they promote things like Multiversity and the Infinite Crisis video game. Yup, there's a reason we have a thread just to complain about the people in charge at DC.
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May 24, 2014 19:39
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McSpanky posted:I liked it in the Crisis on Two Earths animated movie when Earth Prime wasn't anything special, and in fact wasn't even alive anymore because they did something cataclysmic that threw their planet clear out of its orbit. Maybe Earth-1's the same, it's just some random schlub universe where Popeye eats kale instead of spinach or Earth is the fourth planet from the sun but otherwise nothing's changed.
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May 24, 2014 22:06
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Vincent posted:That would be a huge loving change tho. The incredibly strange laws of physics governing that world are why it's an elseworld! ALTERNATE EARTHS, BITCHES, YEEHAWWWW. *jumps out of van, kills Spider-Man on the way out*
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May 24, 2014 22:25
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Has Wolverine ever been part of Alpha Flight? Because if not that seems like a really big and really obvious oversight.
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May 25, 2014 00:12
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Wasn't he working with them in his premier appearance? Or shortly thereafter?
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May 25, 2014 00:43
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MagnesiumB posted:Wasn't he working with them in his premier appearance? Or shortly thereafter? They came to take him back to Canada. Then they got their asses kicked. X-Men #120-121.  According to "R" (Ralf?), #109 was the first attempt.  Edit: "R" was Roger Stern. Which makes sense; Ralph Macchio didn't become an editor for a few more years. prefect fucked around with this message at 00:59 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 00:46
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Lord Hydronium posted:I know that Marvel's multiverse has a universe for every single alternate continuity and What-If under the Marvel banner. Is DC's multiverse the same way with Elseworlds? Like, is there a distinct canonical Red Son universe or Kingdom Come universe? A rough timeline of DC's treatment of The Multiverse: 1939-1961: "Uhh, we're writing stories for children. They take place wherever. Why are you asking us this? Who are you?" 1961: "The Flash of Two Worlds" introduces the idea that all of the comics where Batman and Superman fought in WWII alongside the Justice Society took place on "Earth Two" while the modern stories of Robin being a teen in the 1960s and there being a Justice League took place on "Earth One". 1964: "Earth Three" is introduced with the Crime Syndicate of America being an evil version of the Justice League in four stories titled "Crisis on Earth One", "Crisis on Earth Two", "Crisis on Earth Three" and "The Most Dangerous Earth of All". 1964-1985: DC introduces a whole bunch of "Earth-##", some of which folded in 'universes' of comics they purchased, some of which were just one-off stories where it was like "On Earth-32, Hal Jordan married Carol Ferris! I wonder what their kids would look like?" 1985-1986: DC publishes "Crisis on Infinite Earths" where the Anti-Monitor runs around trying to eat all of the universes to become super-powerful and destroy everything. At the end of the book a lot of things happen and things explode and in the end there is only ONE Earth, which combines whatever DC wanted to keep from all of the worlds. 1986-1994: THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE, NO MULTIVERSE, NO ELSEWORLDS THERE IS ONE OFFICIAL DC UNIVERSE AND YOU BETTER NOT EVEN MENTION ALTERNATE UNIVERSES I SWEAR TO GOD DID I JUST HEAR SOMEONE MENTION SUPERBOY IN THE LEGION I'M GOING TO PULL THIS COMPANY OVER. (DC did not do a very good organizational job of figuring out "what counts" and what doesn't in the DCU, and 'rebooted' half of the line while not rebooting the rest so you have a situation where decades of Batman and JLA stories "still happened" Post-Crisis even though Superman was never a member of the JLA and he's just meeting Batman for the first time in 1986 and also Wonder Woman has never appeared prior to last week. 1989: DC starts publishing "Elseworlds", which are meant to be non-continuity, unconnected alternate reality comic book series. They insist THIS IS NOT A MULTIVERSE, THESE STORIES DON'T COUNT AND COULD NEVER CROSSOVER INTO THE REAL DC. 1994: Zero Hour (subtitled "A Crisis in Time") was an event designed in part to "fix" all of the inconsistencies that built up after Crisis on Infinite Earths. Characters that seem to be from alternate universes start popping up everywhere (a Barbara Gordon Batgirl who never got crippled, Golden Age Superman, Dark Knighty Batman) but it's not a multiverse, it's just alternate timelines caused by Hal Jordan trying to reboot the entire universe so he can recreate it the right way. He succeeds in wiping out the Universe, but a gang of heroes meets him in the void before the Big Bang and Green Arrow shoots him in the chest while Damage (a hip new hero for the 1990s) creates a new Big Bang which recreates a single unbranching universe that is almost exactly like the one before, with a few continuity fixes. Still only one universe, folks! 1999: Mark Waid and Grant Morrison endeavor to introduce "HYPERTIME". Morrison-in-Invisibles-mode described it as some sort of shimmering six dimensional holographic conception of the universe altered by the observer that allows Superman to have both been in and not been in the Justice League and makes all comics in continuity while also being able to be ignored under the proper circumstances. Waid provided a much simpler analogy that still doesn't make a ton of sense, that the whole universe is a river and there are tributaries and branches that go off in their own direction, and that sometimes two of those branches meet back up down the road, and that is why you can have Animated Batman punch Comics Batman if you want it bad enough. This concept was used in about three storylines and then dropped like a hot potato after Morrison and Waid got their Superman 2K pitch rudely rejected. 1999-2006: "Uhh, we're writing stories for our devoted fanbase. They take place wherever. Why are you asking us this? Who are you? Who gives a gently caress, this panel is over." 2006: Infinite Crisis brings back the four people who survived from Crisis on Infinite Earths after them being politely ignored for twenty years. Two of them attempt to bring back the Multiverse either because they're homesick or they're genocidal monsters. They very briefly succeed, but then everything merges back into NEW EARTH, the one true official Earth for real! 2007: J/K, the mini-series 52 reveals that the Multiverse is back after all, but there are only FIFTY TWO of them. This brings back Earth-Two and Earth-Three in their 1960s incarnations, and tosses in several popular Elseworlds as Official Alternate Earths. DC promises to have big plans for the Multiverse. Grant Morrison, co-writer of 52, announces he has plans to explore all these new Earths in a book called "Multiversity". At this point Kingdom Come and Red Son are given canonical Earth designations (22 and 30 respectively) and characters from each universe appear in books that got retconned within five years. 2008: Countdown to Infinite Crisis takes the Multiverse and promptly destroys several of them and has the heroes of a significant portion of the rest get established and killed off willy-nilly for no clear reason. 2008-9: Final Crisis sees most of the multiverse gets blown up again, but this time it's put back more or less how it was before, but because pretty much every fan alive thought either Countdown or Final Crisis (or both) were confusing junk, the whole "Multiverse" is put on the backburner for the moment and pretty much everything takes plan on New Earth. 2011: Flashpoint is a series where Flash goes back to try to keep his mom from dying, which somehow leads to either him or Reverse Flash loving everything up so the world is a battle-ravaged hellhole where Wonder Woman and Aquaman are about to wipe out humanity in an engineered lover's tiff. The Flash is able to go through time some more and fix things but in doing so is counseled/manipulated by a mysterious lady who turns out to be Pandora, like the mythological Pandora. This new "post-Flashpoint" timeline merges at least one Earth (Wildstorm's Earth-50) and excises the Earth-Two stuff out of New Earth and more or less reboots all of the characters in the DC Universe, except the ones it didn't reboot. So we're back to 1986, except with the idea that there are 52 universes. It's just that we've only seen three so far. 2014: Multiversity gets published, theoretically! Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 02:16
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Edge & Christian posted:1986-1994: THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE, NO MULTIVERSE, NO ELSEWORLDS THERE IS ONE OFFICIAL DC UNIVERSE AND YOU BETTER NOT EVEN MENTION ALTERNATE UNIVERSES I SWEAR TO GOD DID I JUST HEAR SOMEONE MENTION SUPERBOY IN THE LEGION I'M GOING TO PULL THIS COMPANY OVER. (DC did not do a very good organizational job of figuring out "what counts" and what doesn't in the DCU, and 'rebooted' half of the line while not rebooting the rest so you have a situation where decades of Batman and JLA stories "still happened" Post-Crisis even though Superman was never a member of the JLA and he's just meeting Batman for the first time in 1986 and also Wonder Woman has never appeared prior to last week.
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May 25, 2014 02:46
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Edge & Christian posted:A rough timeline of DC's treatment of The Multiverse: Just to expound on a few points that make this more confusing. - "Flash of Two Worlds" actually didn't introduce the idea that there were two effectively identical Batmen just on separate earths. Initially they just seemed to focus on the heroes that might have a golden age counterpart but are a different person (though Jay does think back to Wonder Woman in WWII during his second appearance in Barry's book). Using multiple versions of the same character didn't really start until the JLA/JSA crossovers. The implications of the Earth-1 creators writing Superman and Wonder Woman comics in the forties is not explored. - The "not really counting" stories of the sixties weren't referred to as occurring on other earths. Different books had different terms for them. In Superman books they were "imaginary stories" (aren't they all?), in Wonder Woman they were called "impossible stories". Batman's out of continuity stories were called "Bob Haney Brave and the Bold stories"  .- The real differences in the multiple earths got kind of focused in the 70's when Roy Thomas (among others) began regularly setting stories on them. Earth-2 in particular had multiple ongoing series set there. This was a large part of why DC decided to do the Crisis; apparently the editorial thought that having different books interact with each other differently was too confusing. Given the chaos that follows, this is laughable. - There were a lot of continuity holes created by saying "there's only ever been one earth". And not just "let's not talk about that" continuity holes, but "Wait, how's this supposed to work?" holes. So not alternate earths, but pocket universes, alternate dimensions, changed timelines, and anything else as long as you didn't say it was another earth was okay after Crisis. This just added to the confusion. - Morrison was more than happy to ignore the rules of the DC universe whenever it suited him and used alternate earths if he wanted to. I can't say I like half of what he's written but he was right to just ignore the madness that DC had built up. DC's history with this stuff really is absurd, painful, and now a thirty year long running joke among comic fans.
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May 25, 2014 02:54
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Still less complicated than the Summers family tree.
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May 25, 2014 02:58
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Aphrodite posted:Still less complicated than the Summers family tree. Christopher Summers marries Katherine [maiden name]. They have two sons, Scott and Alex. Chris and Katherine are abducted by aliens and presumed dead by their sons, who are placed in an orphanage. The emperor of the aliens impregnates Katherine and kills her, raising her son Gabriel. Christopher escapes from prison and becomes a space pirate. When Scott reaches adulthood, he meets a lady named Jean he loves very much. They consider getting married, but she dies in conflict with the aliens who kidnapped Scott's parents. Scott meets a lady who named Madeline who looks just like Jean and marries her. They have a son named Nathan. Later Scott finds out Jean is alive after all, and drops his wife Madeline. After she dies, he and Jean raise Nathan as their son, until he become gravely ill and they send him off to be treated by future medicine. A woman from the future named Rachel shows up and claims to be Scott and Jean's daughter. Later, Nathan returns from the future as an adult and calls himself Cable. Really, the Summers Family Tree isn't very difficult to parse (no worse than your average soap opera/television drama family tree) until you start getting into time travel children. And clones, I guess. DC's multiverse is way worse. At least when you go "well what about Vulcan?  " you don't have to specify which of five different Vulcans you might be referring to, and the Vulcan who is actually called Hephaestus, and the period where Havok was Vulcan.
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May 25, 2014 03:12
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Vulcan isn't D'ken's son, Katherine was already pregnant when she and Chrostopher were abducted. OWWWWWWNED!
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May 25, 2014 03:17
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HitTheTargets posted:Vulcan isn't D'ken's son, Katherine was already pregnant when she and Chrostopher were abducted. OWWWWWWNED!
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May 25, 2014 03:19
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Edge & Christian posted:A rough timeline of DC's treatment of The Multiverse: Random Stranger posted:Just to expound on a few points that make this more confusing.
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May 25, 2014 03:50
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Random Stranger posted:- The "not really counting" stories of the sixties weren't referred to as occurring on other earths. Different books had different terms for them. In Superman books they were "imaginary stories" (aren't they all?), in Wonder Woman they were called "impossible stories". Batman's out of continuity stories were called "Bob Haney Brave and the Bold stories" There were some cases they actually DID assign numbers/letters in stories (Earth-32 being one of those) but you're right, a lot of them were just "hey what if Superman and Lex Luthor were brothers during the Civil War? What a cover that'd make!" and the stories just went from there. And then Mark Gruenwald started cataloging them in the fanzine that got him hired to write continuity stuff for DC and eventually an editing job at Marvel. Then they categorized MORE of them in CoIE, and at some point DC put together a ridiculous canonical list that got stuck into the back of reprints of CoIE.
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May 25, 2014 05:42
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Also worth mentioning with the alternate Earths is that after Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was mandated that there could not only be no more alternate realities, but Superman had to be the one and only last survivor of Krypton. So within three years, John Byrne decided to bring in Supergirl from a "pocket dimension" because that's not the same thing, right? Right. Pocket dimension.Edge & Christian posted:Joke's on the person who read a comic with Vulcan in it. I just assumed he was D'Ken's son because he went back and declared himself emperor of Shi'ar at some point. It was more that he married Deathbird and she wanted him to snap D'Ken out of his coma. Vulcan really, really wanted to just kill him, but Deathbird told him not to because then she'd be in charge and she seriously didn't want that. So Vulcan snapped D'Ken out of it and later killed him anyway. Deathbird again reminded him that she didn't want to run things, but he was all, "Don't worry, babe. Emperor Vulcan's got this!"
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May 25, 2014 05:50
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Gavok posted:It was more that he married Deathbird and she wanted him to snap D'Ken out of his coma. Vulcan really, really wanted to just kill him, but Deathbird told him not to because then she'd be in charge and she seriously didn't want that. So Vulcan snapped D'Ken out of it and later killed him anyway. Deathbird again reminded him that she didn't want to run things, but he was all, "Don't worry, babe. Emperor Vulcan's got this!"
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May 25, 2014 05:56
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Gavok posted:Also worth mentioning with the alternate Earths is that after Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was mandated that there could not only be no more alternate realities, but Superman had to be the one and only last survivor of Krypton. So within three years, John Byrne decided to bring in Supergirl from a "pocket dimension" because that's not the same thing, right? Right. Pocket dimension. Hey now, she was also an artificial Kryptonian who later turned into an angel. Totally within the rules.
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May 25, 2014 06:00
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WickedHate posted:Hey now, she was also an artificial Kryptonian who later turned into an angel. Totally within the rules. She wasn't Kryptonian. She was a clone of Lana Lang created with a genetic matrix. He powers were only superficially like Supermans.
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May 25, 2014 06:42
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Rhyno posted:She wasn't Kryptonian. She was a clone of Lana Lang created with a genetic matrix. He powers were only superficially like Supermans. Thus making her an artificial Kryptonian.
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May 25, 2014 06:52
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WickedHate posted:Thus making her an artificial Kryptonian. She's never once referred to as a Kryptonian. She's not even human.
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May 25, 2014 06:56
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WickedHate posted:Hey now, she was also an artificial Kryptonian who later turned into an angel. Totally within the rules. Rhyno posted:She wasn't Kryptonian. She was a clone of Lana Lang created with a genetic matrix. He powers were only superficially like Supermans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBJZwYpHUBo
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May 25, 2014 06:58
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Edge & Christian posted:Don't forget the stories that were just Alfred writing in his diary what he imagined things might be like in the future when Master Bruce gets married! Many of those stories had tragic elements, which was interesting. I forgot about those. Making this more confusing is that it was a patch onto Bob Haney's own out of continuity stories for World's Finest. Rhyno posted:She's never once referred to as a Kryptonian. She's not even human. Didn't even have Kryptonian powers. She was telekinetic and used that to mimic a lot of Kryptonian abilities. If only Kronos hasn't tried to look in on the Spectre masturbating, none of this would have happened.
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May 25, 2014 14:49
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Random Stranger posted:Didn't even have Kryptonian powers. She was telekinetic and used that to mimic a lot of Kryptonian abilities.
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May 25, 2014 16:51
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What's the general consensus on Onslaught? My dad was huge into that whole storyline when I was a kid and I've been curious about going back and checking it out.
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May 25, 2014 16:57
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It's the biggest pile of 90s poo poo ever. Doomsday's rampage looks complex and well-written in comparison.
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May 25, 2014 17:03
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Lurdiak posted:It's the biggest pile of 90s poo poo ever. Doomsday's rampage looks complex and well-written in comparison. I always thought that the basic idea of Onslaught was kind of interesting, the fact that he's the worst aspects of Prof. X and Magneto fused together, but I guess it's just another lovely 90's MEGA EVENT comic.
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May 25, 2014 17:07
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CapnAndy posted:This was also Connor Kent's deal until his DNA got un-hosed so he could actually start maturing. Until Geoff Johns got his hands on him.
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May 25, 2014 17:09
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Yeah, the only good thing about Onslaught is his hilarious screen-filling boss fight in Marvel Vs. Capcom where he goes "BEHOLD MY MIGHTY HAND"
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May 25, 2014 17:09
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It's not fondly remembered largely because of the nonsensical ending where most of Earth's heroes find suicide a viable solution, and the following Heroes Reborn taking a dump on many of Marvel's major titles for about a year. If it wasn't for that it'd probably fall in line with Maximum Carnage and other overwrought but mostly just silly 90s crossovers.
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May 25, 2014 17:14
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