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Tenebrais posted:Unless I'm missing what you're hinting at, we already saw Stannis take the threat seriously, and that he intends to take King's Landing so he can send all of Westeros to fight rather than fight off the White Walkers with all five of his soldiers. That's a point. Who is in a position to give any serious opposition to the Wildlings if they just roll over the Nights Watch? In the North we have the Boltons who have what, a few thousand? Then the Freys who probably won't even leave their precious bridge/castle?
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May 25, 2014 19:26
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The Karstarks were a huge part of Robb's army and they left before the Red Wedding.
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May 25, 2014 19:36
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I would rather Mance and his dudes be killed by whitewalkers before breaching than have the Night's Watch somehow hold them off miraculously. Unless they do the tunnel thing, though that's just a stalling tactic. Or, I guess the wildlings can take the North, since the wildling characters are pretty much the coolest, and they'd really be taking out Ramsay and his rape gang and or the Ironborn and their rape gangs. But that would require Jon, Sam, and Sam's baby momma to all die, making their stories (and their deaths) loving pointless. Edit: Jon Snow brokers peace with the wildlings, bam, the wall is manned as gently caress wisdomHNOX posted:...and the values that he/she holds making it unlikely that he/she will impose their will in an environment where they so clearly don't deserve it, but I might get labeled a book reader. Haha, like Stannis has values. Maybe he did, before he started using loving black magic to kill his own family, or killed his family because they wouldn't convert. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 20:20
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It wouldn't require them to die, they could escape and have a storyline where they are on the run, or get captured and have one where they are imprisoned. But yes the Wilding/Nights Watch team up has always seemed to me to be the obvious 'good' ending of that whole storyline. But since this is Game of Thrones I don't expect the 'good' ending to happen! Mance seems like a pragmatic guy, but the Nights Watch leadership seem like they would never go for peace with the Wildlings.
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May 25, 2014 20:27
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Bobo the Red posted:Jon Snow is really quite probably not Ned's son, but his nephew, and heir to either the Baratheon throne or the Targaryen one. Unless the whole thing is a hilarious red herring GRRM put in. But the only really pure souls in the entire show are Ned and Jon, dudes who always do the right thing for the greater good, honor, etc. I could totally see Jon reluctantly ruling if there was no one else.
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May 25, 2014 20:29
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Bobo the Red posted:I would rather Mance and his dudes be killed by whitewalkers before breaching than have the Night's Watch somehow hold them off miraculously. Unless they do the tunnel thing, though that's just a stalling tactic. Stannis has the most consistent values of anyone we have seen. He puts justice before everything. It's the reason Davos is so loyal to Stannis. Everything he has done has been to claim what is his by right. Sure the methods are messy sometimes, but he has never done anything in the show without both fair warning, an opportunity for his opponents to surrender/convert and a legitimate claim on whatever he is trying to take. He is probably one of the most predictable characters in the show right now as a result.
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May 25, 2014 20:49
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He wants to put justice before everything, but he puts claiming the throne before justice in reality. He recognized that assassinating Renly wasn't the just thing to do.
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May 25, 2014 20:54
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Lycus posted:He wants to put justice before everything, but he puts his reclaiming his birthright before justice in reality. He recognized that assassinating Renly wasn't the just thing to do. Renly was usurping the claim to the throne from Stannis and refused to swear fealty to him. Death is pretty standard judgement in that situation. The method of execution was lovely, yes, but that was justice.
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May 25, 2014 20:56
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Everyone's so loyal to their lords because of Stockholm Syndrome. Everyone, including the lords, are fuckin' nutters.
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May 25, 2014 20:57
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Why does Mance specifically want Castle Black? If he wants a hole in the wall to get his army through, he can just send out a bunch of sappers anywhere else and make one himself. If he wants fortifications facing north in case the undead give chase, he can just take over one of the many empty forts. If he wants to have a fight to boost his own guys' morale, there's two other Watch crewed forts that would both also give him sea access for easymode supply lines.
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May 25, 2014 21:40
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I had the same questions, but does Mance ever say "My strategy is to attack Castle Black and nothing else?" I mean, if he has a horde and some semblance of command he can probably hit multiple places at once.
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May 25, 2014 21:44
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So, they had Bolton's fort in the opening credits map, but no Ramsey/Theon/Bolton scenes. Is this their first ever mistake (Winterfell doesn't count).
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May 25, 2014 22:13
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Funso Banjo posted:Is this their first ever mistake (Winterfell doesn't count). Edit: Oh, ha, that was supposed to be a question. Sorry. I'm pretty sure they always show Dany's location even when she doesn't appear, and there was that all-King's Landing episode during the Blackwater battle, pretty sure they didn't make a special King's Landing-only credits sequence. There's probably little instances here and there. Lycus fucked around with this message at 22:24 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 22:18
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Funso Banjo posted:So, they had Bolton's fort in the opening credits map, but no Ramsey/Theon/Bolton scenes. We've never seen the Eyrie on the map this season but we've been there for at least 2 episodes.
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May 25, 2014 22:18
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Funso Banjo posted:So, they had Bolton's fort in the opening credits map, but no Ramsey/Theon/Bolton scenes. They've been kinda lame with the opening credits this year - they haven't changed once I don't think. The Eyrie should totally have been in the credits the last two episodes. Booo
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May 25, 2014 22:18
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Speaking about the Karstarks. why the gently caress did Robb execute him. He was in a war, that guy was your ally. the whole marriage is stupid but I understand why. I cannot understand why he would kill one of his allies.
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May 25, 2014 22:20
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Robb's dumb
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May 25, 2014 22:27
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Regy Rusty posted:They've been kinda lame with the opening credits this year - they haven't changed once I don't think. The Eyrie should totally have been in the credits the last two episodes. I take it they've left out the Eyrie because they redesigned it, but never made a new credits animation for it.
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May 25, 2014 22:28
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Sefal posted:Speaking about the Karstarks. why the gently caress did Robb execute him. He was in a war, that guy was your ally. Because his ally openly defied his authority as a ruler/general. He had to crack down on Karstark or it would send the message to everyone else "hey just do whatever you want, it's cool if you don't follow my orders, whateves" and then he'd lose everybody. Now, he didn't necessarily have to execute him (iirc Blackfish and Edmure advocated just arresting him/holding him hostage) but Robb felt he had to live up to dad's example. Remember that Karstark killed kids which was big on Ned's Do-Not-Do list. In addition to Robb feeling like Karstark making a hypocrite/liar out of him by killing hostages when Robb's whole kick was he treats prisoners/the vanquished ethically and is Thus Better Than The Lannisters (thus it's okay for him to reject their royal authority, hence his whole rebellion). And of course once Robb makes the call that Karstark needs to die of course he has to do it himself because Ned's Son. Regy Rusty posted:Robb's dumb Also yes Robb is kinda dumb.
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May 25, 2014 22:40
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Lycus posted:He wants to put justice before everything, but he puts claiming the throne before justice in reality. He recognized that assassinating Renly wasn't the just thing to do. Legerdemain posted:Why are the wildlings attacking Castle Black when Jon told them there were 16 other unmanned castles? Asehujiko posted:Why does Mance specifically want Castle Black? If he wants a hole in the wall to get his army through, he can just send out a bunch of sappers anywhere else and make one himself. If he wants fortifications facing north in case the undead give chase, he can just take over one of the many empty forts. If he wants to have a fight to boost his own guys' morale, there's two other Watch crewed forts that would both also give him sea access for easymode supply lines. People have gotten uppity about book talk, but there's logical reasons for focusing Castle Black over the other two. Also, for the record since it was stated grossly incorrectly awhile back: the width of the wall was described as "the top is wide enough for a dozen mounted knights to ride abreast and it is thicker at the base." It is much, much wider than twelve feet. Figuring the width of a person mounted on a horse, that's probably closer to 36~48 ft. wide at the top and wider at the bottom. It would be no trivial task to blow a hole in it (besides the fact that doing so might let the undead follow you through, screwing both you and all of Westeros). bUm fucked around with this message at 22:51 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 22:48
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Considering that killing Rickard caused all his men to leave, cutting Robb's forces in half (lol come on show) and forcing him back into the arms of the Freys, yeah Robb's dumb as poo poo.
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May 25, 2014 22:49
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Sefal posted:Speaking about the Karstarks. why the gently caress did Robb execute him. He was in a war, that guy was your ally.
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May 25, 2014 22:51
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bUm posted:Claiming the throne is justice since Stannis is the rightful, legal heir to it since Cersei's children aren't by Robert. Renly was in violation of the laws of the realm by claiming the throne because "I'm more popular/liked than the rightful heir" is not a legitimate claim. It's a claim punishable by death in just circumstances. It was punished by death. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 22:57
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His "respect for the law" is horseshit. He declared his nephew (the legally rightful heir to the throne) illegitimate on the word of a traitor. He has a code, but gently caress if he doesn't rewrite it to be self-serving.Lycus posted:Stannis himself called it "murder". So he doesn't consider the assassination to be justice. It's the reason why he was so insistent that Davos not talk to him about it at all after it happened. Stannis is torn between wanting to be king and wanting to be just. Yeah, it's pretty clear that whatever Stannis's code is, the Red lady has been leading him to violate it, and he's getting pretty uncomfortable with it. There's no way he would've hired a regular assassin to kill Renly. But breaking his code is what's keeping him in the fight, so he keeps doing it. He won't let Davos talk to him about it, because Davos is the last bastion of sanity on Dragonstone, so Stannis simply can't risk listening to him. Should be interesting to see if what appears to be coming, Melisandre wanting to sacrifice his daughter, will make him wake the gently caress up. Or if he'll let her do it and then have a crisis. Or Davos will step up and save her, and when Stannis has him burned, he'll see how far he's fallen.
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May 26, 2014 00:33
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He's not the legally rightful heir, and stannis is knows what was up with ned.
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May 26, 2014 00:48
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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Stannis actually discovered that Cersei's children were illegitimate before Ned did. This is why Stannis left King's Landing.
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May 26, 2014 01:40
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Yeah I didn't want to get yelled at for book chat, but in there you find out when jon Arryn was doing his investigations stannis was with him
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May 26, 2014 01:50
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Well, since this is about the show, and what we saw on the show was Stannis claiming to be heir because Ned sent him a letter, I still call bullshit. Joffrey was, legally, the son of Robert Baratheon (beccause Robert, the king, accepted him as such), and the guy who sent the letter to Stannis was a. found guilty of treason and b. publicly recanted his claims. Stannis should have sided with the crown, instead he sided with himself.
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May 26, 2014 02:11
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Bobo the Red posted:Well, since this is about the show, and what we saw on the show was Stannis claiming to be heir because Ned sent him a letter, I still call bullshit. Joffrey was, legally, the son of Robert Baratheon (beccause Robert, the king, accepted him as such), and the guy who sent the letter to Stannis was a. found guilty of treason and b. publicly recanted his claims. Stannis should have sided with the crown, instead he sided with himself. In order for this to be so, he has to assume that Eddard is lying, which is a tall order based on Eddard's reputation.
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May 26, 2014 02:28
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Joffrey's lineage is clearly a badly kept secret among the movers and shakers of King's Landing anyway. Everyone on the small council knew. Though I'm not sure the show even acknowledges Stannis was in King's Landing or on the small council shortly before the show starts. Either way a lot of other people are quick to believe it.
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May 26, 2014 02:35
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mexicanmonkey posted:You'll probably find this interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utu-LpJn3Is I did enjoy this. Thanks! Last Chance posted:This is dumb. Why do I want some nerd making up some crazy bullshit science reasons for a fantasy adventure setting? I think he's missing the point of fantasy in that you're not supposed to overanalyze and ruin the fantastic things by overthinking them.
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May 26, 2014 03:00
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Bobo the Red posted:Well, since this is about the show, and what we saw on the show was Stannis claiming to be heir because Ned sent him a letter, I still call bullshit. Joffrey was, legally, the son of Robert Baratheon (beccause Robert, the king, accepted him as such), and the guy who sent the letter to Stannis was a. found guilty of treason and b. publicly recanted his claims. Stannis should have sided with the crown, instead he sided with himself.  that Robert's Rebellion was BS, Targaryens forever yo), which is what I was saying and it sure as hell doesn't take reading the books to know that.If you want to argue in-universe... sure, there may be doubt to his claim and that's part of the reason the entire realm isn't chomping at the bit to dethrone Joffrey/Tommen, but more likely it's that Stannis is a weak ally, so they'd be risking much in doing so. Highgarden and the Stormlands obviously accepted that they're illegitimate (rebelling with Renly); the North and Riverlands accepts it (Ned wouldn't have lied); the Iron Islands don't care (gently caress the crown authority anyway). So there's 4/7 major players (sorry Iron Islands) in Westeros that believe the case that he made and 2/7 more (Vale/Dorne) not giving a poo poo as far as the show is concerned. Also, as Higsian points out, it's pretty obvious a lot of King's Landing also knows it's true (including the power players Littlefinger and Varys). Ironically, if not for Stannis, the illegitimates would've very likely been disposed between those four large armies smashing the comparatively weak Westerlands/Crownlands whilst the other two relaxed behind their mountain ranges of safety looking on. Edit: also, in case you forgot, Ned warned Cersei to take the children with her and leave King's Landing before he told Robert. He did so because he knew Robert would kill all of them (and Jaime) upon finding out (he trusted Ned more than anyone else by far). Robert didn't "accept" the illegitimate bastards, he was an alcoholic who didn't give a poo poo or know. He'd have probably gladly smashed both Cersei's and Jaime's heads in with his warhammer upon finding out. I don't think he was much for killing children by his own hand, but you bet those three would've been put to death as well. Edit 2: And if Tywin raised his banners over losing 2/2.5 of his children (  ), Robert would've loved going to put down such a rebellion since he hated ruling and loved fighting.
bUm fucked around with this message at 03:21 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:02
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Also even if you want Roberts rebellion to be void dany doesn't have a claim because the throne only goes through males. Stannis by far has the best claim.
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May 26, 2014 03:08
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Bobo the Red posted:His "respect for the law" is horseshit. He declared his nephew (the legally rightful heir to the throne) illegitimate on the word of a traitor. He has a code, but gently caress if he doesn't rewrite it to be self-serving. Are you RPing as a Lannister or just being obtuse? As pointed out we as viewers know better than that, as does much of the realm.
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May 26, 2014 03:34
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Dangersim posted:Also even if you want Roberts rebellion to be void dany doesn't have a claim because the throne only goes through males. Was that how it worked in the Targaryans' reign too?
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May 26, 2014 04:31
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Given that there was no episode tonight, and further given that people were dissing GRRM's writing ability, if anyone is interested in reading the chapter featuring next episode's duel I found that chapter online. Obviously it will spoil the episode, so I won't link it here but you're welcome to PM me for the link. The writing for the fight is incredibly exciting and completely draws you in, it's really compelling writing imo.
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May 26, 2014 04:41
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regulargonzalez posted:Given that there was no episode tonight, and further given that people were dissing GRRM's writing ability, if anyone is interested in reading the chapter featuring next episode's duel I found that chapter online. Obviously it will spoil the episode, so I won't link it here but you're welcome to PM me for the link. The writing for the fight is incredibly exciting and completely draws you in, it's really compelling writing imo. Uhhh....why don't you just link it in the post? It's not like it's a big fuckoff image that will spoil everyone even those uninterested. It's a link that requires a second click to get there. Label it and leave it.
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May 26, 2014 04:55
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edited so as not to upset people. PM me for chapter if interested.
regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 05:03
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Drifter posted:Uhhh....why don't you just link it in the post? It's not like it's a big fuckoff image that will spoil everyone even those uninterested. Please don't do this. Take it to PM or just go to the loving spoiler thread. Edit: Goddamnit.
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May 26, 2014 05:07
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I got  on Oberyn
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May 26, 2014 05:40
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