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  • Locked thread
Bobo the Red
Aug 14, 2004
Lay off the marmot

wisdomHNOX posted:

Are you RPing as a Lannister or just being obtuse? As pointed out we as viewers know better than that, as does much of the realm.

I know. You know. The viewers know. Stannis can only know because Ned told him, and as I said, Ned recanted it. If Ned's word is sacrosanct, then his recantation has to count too. All I'm really saying is that Stannis is full of poo poo. He claimed the throne because he wanted the throne.

gently caress the Targaryens. Using their bullshit magic dragons to take Westeros. I hope Dany loses hard.

Mescal posted:

Was that how it worked in the Targaryans' reign too?

Pretty sure they started it. Everywhere else in Westeros does boys first, then girls. Targs are extra sexist

Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 26, 2014

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Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS

Bobo the Red posted:

I know. You know. The viewers know. Stannis can only know because Ned told him, and as I said, Ned recanted it. If Ned's word is sacrosanct, then his recantation has to count too. All I'm really saying is that Stannis is full of poo poo. He claimed the throne because he wanted the throne.

Do you really think Stannis couldn't have figured out what was going on there?

agarjogger
May 16, 2011
I hope by the end they've conscripted all the loving peasants, mashed them against each other until every last one is dead, and the white walkers ride down leisurely with vacant stares wondering where everyone is. I really hope these insane inbred psychopaths utterly wreck this place and Essos recolonizes it.

Bobo the Red
Aug 14, 2004
Lay off the marmot

Dangersim posted:

Do you really think Stannis couldn't have figured out what was going on there?

Of course he could. That's not really the issue. People were talking about how Stannis has this consistent code about following the law (which is why he chopped Davos's fingers off like an rear end in a top hat). I think if he had such a code, he wouldn't have rebelled on someone's word, especially not someone who was labeled a traitor and then recanted his accusations. According to the rules (and the information he had) Stannis should've stayed put.

Stannis went with it because he knew Ned was likely trying to do the right thing, and because hey, this way he gets to be king. He used his personal judgement instead of "the rules". Which means he's not just a kinslaying jerk, he's a hypocrite.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS
The point your missing is that according to the law he is the rightful king, this is not just Ned's word, most people accept this ( that Robert has no trueborn children.)

DISCO KING
Oct 30, 2012

STILL
TRYING
TOO
HARD
Are we TOXXing the fight now? Put your :10bux: where your mouth is.

Bobo the Red
Aug 14, 2004
Lay off the marmot

Dangersim posted:

The point your missing is that according to the law he is the rightful king, this is not just Ned's word, most people accept this ( that Robert has no trueborn children.)

He would be the rightful king if the kids were known to be Lannister bastards. They are widely thought to be that, but the fact is, Robert gave them his name, and never questioned their legitimacy when he was alive, so Joffrey was as rightful a king as you could hope for, coming from an usurped throne. Stannis only challenged their status on the word of someone who was found to be a traitor. They don't magically become illegitimate because an honorable guy said they were (and then took it back, publicly). I imagine there has to be some burden of proof for such an accusation.

If delegitimizing was as easy as hearsay, when/if Tywin dies, someone could just say Tyrion was a bastard (since he looks nothing like his siblings/parents), and then inherit Casterly Rock. Maybe it is that easy, in which case, Stannis is acting according to his code, I guess. Except the kinslaying, that part I'm pretty sure was a big breach.

I'm just mad he gets Davos on his team. Davos is too cool for Dragonstone (and seems fated to die saving people from Melisandre). I just want Tyrion, Varys, Davos, and Jon to get together and save Westeros (from Dany).

Stonefish
Nov 1, 2004

Chillin' like a villain
It's been years, but I still want a DVD extra of Tywin, Tyrion, Petyr, Varys and Bronn sitting around a campfire for fifteen hours, just drinking and talking. In or out of character. Whatever.

Awesome people with awesome voices, just going on about stuff. The Westerosi version of:

Stonefish fucked around with this message at 08:16 on May 26, 2014

Fozzy The Bear
Dec 11, 1999

Nothing much, watching the game, drinking a bud

Napoleon Bonaparty posted:

Are we TOXXing the fight now? Put your :10bux: where your mouth is.

TOXXing over something that you can find the results with google?

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


At the last moment, the Mountain is about to finish the Viper, when suddenly the Viper's manager, Tyrion, hits the Mountain in the back with a chair. The Mountain turns around but then the Viper gets him in a surprise roll-up.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

At the last moment, the Mountain is about to finish the Viper, when suddenly the Viper's manager, Tyrion, hits the Mountain in the back with a chair. The Mountain turns around but then the Viper gets him in a surprise roll-up.

Unfortunately for the Viper, the ref is Tywin, who keeps "forgetting" the three count.

Fight Club Sandwich
Apr 29, 2006

you want a piece of me???
And the Mountain has the Viper on the ropes, looks like he's signalling for the Sherpa Killer! A hopeless situation for the Red Viper. But wait, IS THAT SANDOR CLEGANE'S MUSIC

*who let the dogs out blares over the arena loudspeakers*

DoctorStrangelove
Jun 7, 2012

IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!

Fight Club Sandwich posted:

And the Mountain has the Viper on the ropes, looks like he's signalling for the Sherpa Killer! A hopeless situation for the Red Viper. But wait, IS THAT SANDOR CLEGANE'S MUSIC

*who let the dogs out blares over the arena loudspeakers*

I'm gonna be sad if the next thread doesn't have as the icon.

mastajake
Oct 3, 2005

My blade is unBENDING!

Bobo the Red posted:

If delegitimizing was as easy as hearsay, when/if Tywin dies, someone could just say Tyrion was a bastard (since he looks nothing like his siblings/parents), and then inherit Casterly Rock. Maybe it is that easy, in which case, Stannis is acting according to his code, I guess. Except the kinslaying, that part I'm pretty sure was a big breach.

Not to say he was justified killing Renly, but I don't think kinslaying is a "thing" for kings. They aren't held to the same standards.

That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010

Fight Club Sandwich posted:

And the Mountain has the Viper on the ropes, looks like he's signalling for the Sherpa Killer! A hopeless situation for the Red Viper. But wait, IS THAT SANDOR CLEGANE'S MUSIC

*who let the dogs out blares over the arena loudspeakers*

Manager Petey "The Brain" Baelish declares that the only way for Oberyn to win the Trial by Combat is to bodyslam the Mountain.

DISCO KING
Oct 30, 2012

STILL
TRYING
TOO
HARD

Fozzy The Bear posted:

TOXXing over something that you can find the results with google?

Fastest way to get the book complainers banned.

Gianthogweed
Jun 3, 2004

"And then I see the disinfectant...where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that. Uhh, by injection inside..." - a Very Stable Genius.

Bobo the Red posted:

Of course he could. That's not really the issue. People were talking about how Stannis has this consistent code about following the law (which is why he chopped Davos's fingers off like an rear end in a top hat). I think if he had such a code, he wouldn't have rebelled on someone's word, especially not someone who was labeled a traitor and then recanted his accusations. According to the rules (and the information he had) Stannis should've stayed put.

Stannis went with it because he knew Ned was likely trying to do the right thing, and because hey, this way he gets to be king. He used his personal judgement instead of "the rules". Which means he's not just a kinslaying jerk, he's a hypocrite.

Stannis knew Cersei's kids were incest bastards before Ned even got to King's Landing. Why do you think he left King's Landing in the first place? He was involved with Jon Arryn's investigation.

Ballz
Dec 16, 2003

it's mario time

Gianthogweed posted:

Stannis knew Cersei's kids were incest bastards before Ned even got to King's Landing. Why do you think he left King's Landing in the first place? He was involved with Jon Arryn's investigation.

Not in the show he wasn't. Stop projecting events from the book as if they're the same as the show.

Hobohemian
Sep 30, 2005

by XyloJW

Napoleon Bonaparty posted:

Fastest way to get the book complainers banned.

Why would the people who know what's gonna happen get banned for a toxx they will win?

rypakal
Oct 31, 2012

He also cooks the food of his people

Ballz posted:

Not in the show he wasn't. Stop projecting events from the book as if they're the same as the show.

Indeed, if anyone is confused Stannis outright says he learned it form Ned. e: Video doesn't allow embedding, so beware!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDVvvjhsOAc&t=53s

Bobo the Red
Aug 14, 2004
Lay off the marmot

mastajake posted:

Not to say he was justified killing Renly, but I don't think kinslaying is a "thing" for kings. They aren't held to the same standards.

The king can get away with it, but he's still doing it.

Same as the Red Wedding: they violated guest right hard, but since the Lannisters are in charge, they're not held to account. But they're still guilty. And we heard that story about how the gods don't like it when you break those old school laws.

I'm trying to remember who else has violated guest right. Littlefinger just did it, kinda. Not sure what the rules are there (definitely kinslaying though). Jaime did it. I feel like there have been more.

Edit: The Night's Watch mutineers, duh

Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 26, 2014

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006

Bobo the Red posted:

The king can get away with it, but he's still doing it.

Same as the Red Wedding: they violated guest right hard, but since the Lannisters are in charge, they're not held account. But they're still guilty. And we heard that story about how the gods don't like it when you break those old school laws.

I'm trying to remember who else has violated guest right. Little finger just did it, kinda. Not sure what the rules are there (definitely kinslaying though). Jaime did it. I feel like there have been more.

The hound robbing that farmer.

Gianthogweed
Jun 3, 2004

"And then I see the disinfectant...where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that. Uhh, by injection inside..." - a Very Stable Genius.

rypakal posted:

Indeed, if anyone is confused Stannis outright says he learned it form Ned. e: Video doesn't allow embedding, so beware!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDVvvjhsOAc&t=53s

He said "When Eddard Stark learned the truth he told only me, let's not make the same mistake." That does not mean that Stannis learned it from Ned. Book and show are the same in that Stannis knew along with Jon Arryn before Eddard arrived. Stannis didn't have proof (but neither did Ned), so he left King's Landing to see if he can rally support back on Dragonstone. I'm sure he was happy Ned learned the truth and supported him, but Ned's mistake was not making it widely known. All he did was sent a bird to Stannis. Had Ned made it widely known, more people would have supported Stannis since Ned, the hand of the former king, supported Stannis's claim.

Gianthogweed fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 26, 2014

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



This is not the case on the show; that scene is one of the first times we even see Stannis and his knowledge of the situation. There is no scene in the show where Stannis discusses knowing this or investigating it. The Game of Thrones wiki, which primarily focuses on show information, even marks this as a significant change from the books.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

Gianthogweed posted:

so he left King's Landing to see if he can rally support back on Dragonstone.
I don't think that's a show thing. I don't remember anything said in the show that mentioned that Stannis was in King's Landing and left after Jon's death.

Gianthogweed
Jun 3, 2004

"And then I see the disinfectant...where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that. Uhh, by injection inside..." - a Very Stable Genius.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

This is not the case on the show; that scene is one of the first times we even see Stannis and his knowledge of the situation. There is no scene in the show where Stannis discusses knowing this or investigating it. The Game of Thrones wiki, which primarily focuses on show information, even marks this as a significant change from the books.

Well, if it wasn't shown in the show, than it's safe to assume that you can trust that events circumstances that led to Stannis leaving King's Landing are the same as they were in the book. It just happened off screen. As long as there's nothing that outright contradicts this, I don't see why it would be any different.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

Gianthogweed posted:

Well, I think it's safe to assume that if it wasn't shown in the show, than it's safe to assume that the circumstances that led to Stannis leaving King's Landing are the same as they were in the book. It just happened off screen. As long as there's nothing that outright contradicts this, I don't see why it would be any different.

Because the show isn't the book and there's absolutely no indication anywhere that this is the case, and in fact there's a scene detailing how Stannis got a letter from Ned Stark telling him what was going on. The show is an adaptation based on the books, they're not identical in every respect and things that are true in one aren't necessarily the same in the other.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

Gianthogweed posted:

Well, if it wasn't shown in the show, than it's safe to assume that you can trust that events circumstances that led to Stannis leaving King's Landing are the same as they were in the book. It just happened off screen. As long as there's nothing that outright contradicts this, I don't see why it would be any different.

Or show-Stannis was regularly living in Dragonstone before the show's events. Either way, the posted scene strongly implies that that's when show-Stannis learned about the incest.

regulargonzalez
Aug 18, 2006
UNGH LET ME LICK THOSE BOOTS DADDY HULU ;-* ;-* ;-* YES YES GIVE ME ALL THE CORPORATE CUMMIES :shepspends: :shepspends: :shepspends: ADBLOCK USERS DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY, DON'T THEY DADDY?
WHEN THE RICH GET RICHER I GET HORNIER :a2m::a2m::a2m::a2m:

From the Game of Thrones show-only wiki:

quote:

[I]n the TV series [Stannis] is not mentioned at all in respect of Arryn's actions [regarding the incest investigation] prior to [Arryn's] death.
From http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Jon_Arryn

Be aware that the above link does mention a couple of details from the books w/r/t how they differed from the book, but nothing that hasn't been brought up in the last several posts.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006

Yeah show Stannis clearly learned about the incest from Ned's letter. Saying otherwise is like those posters a while back who were trashing show Cat and show Sansa because of things they only did in the books.

z0rlandi viSSer
Nov 5, 2013

bobjr posted:

Mance was scared to attack the wall when Karl Fookin Tanner, the legend of Gin Alley was about. Now that he's dead all bets are off.

Rip Karl

you crazy fookin legend

ParliamentOfDogs
Jan 29, 2009

My genre's thriller... What's yours?
Man, if Melisandre burns the cutie pie and Davos doesn't rebel then to heck with him. I mean, he will win me back as soon as I hear the accent but until then to heck with him.

ultramiraculous
Nov 12, 2003

"No..."
Grimey Drawer

agarjogger posted:

I hope by the end they've conscripted all the loving peasants, mashed them against each other until every last one is dead, and the white walkers ride down leisurely with vacant stares wondering where everyone is. I really hope these insane inbred psychopaths utterly wreck this place and Essos recolonizes it.

What's the thread to Essos, with respect to White Walkers? Do they freeze the sea into an ice bride, or is Essos just generally not going to be bothered at all?

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
I don't think we have any way of knowing. Maybe the White Walkers will be satisfied with Westeros, maybe they want to ice over the whole planet and spread everywhere. Who knows?

bUm
Jan 11, 2011

ultramiraculous posted:

What's the thread to Essos, with respect to White Walkers? Do they freeze the sea into an ice bride, or is Essos just generally not going to be bothered at all?
This is a total unknown given the Wall has been around for 8000+ years, preventing such a possibility (as far as noted, the only attacks since raising it have been by Wildlings). The invasion by the Others/White Walkers prior to the construction of the Wall was stopped in Westeros (location not specified, but probably fairly far south), but this period was called "The Long Night" (it is said to have lasted a generation and the winter it was part of lasted longer still) and, at least per the wiki, says a "terrible darkness fell across Westeros and the east." :shrug: Says nothing of the White Walkers crossing the Narrow Sea, but global darkness for "a generation" would cause understandable difficulties anyway for them (and maybe freeze the sea?).

Nothing of Essos is noted prior to the rise of the Ghiscari Empire ~6000 years prior to present events except that the First Men walked across a land bridge (destroyed, now the Stepstones) to Westeros ~12,000 years ago (engaging in fighting the Children of the Forest, giants, and "other magical creatures" that inhabited Westeros) and the Andals sailed from Essos ~6000 years ago (or 4000 or 2000, according to some maesters). So, as far as we're made aware, there was no real settled civilization in Essos last time they attacked to have any recollection of what the situation in Essos was.

Pleasant Friend
Dec 30, 2008

I had thought/assumed slaves built the wall like every other crazy piece of near impossible architecture in this show. But this thread makes me believe White Walkers built The Wall, which would make sense since they have an ice city thing going on.

Maybe they built the wall.... [shocking twist]to keep something OUT!![/shocking twist]

ParliamentOfDogs
Jan 29, 2009

My genre's thriller... What's yours?

Pleasant Friend posted:

I had thought/assumed slaves built the wall like every other crazy piece of near impossible architecture in this show. But this thread makes me believe White Walkers built The Wall, which would make sense since they have an ice city thing going on.

Maybe they built the wall.... [shocking twist]to keep something OUT!![/shocking twist]

Sam got in anyway. The one white walker dude just couldn't even acknowledge what he was seeing.

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe
I would assume that the White Walkers would have some way of invading Essos, otherwise why would the Red Priests care about some stupid prophecy that only affects Westeros?

Also I thought Bran the Builder built the wall, he was just a bad rear end builder that used magic and poo poo to build it and each Lord Commander would raise the walls whenever they could.

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal
HBO is hoping magic somehow finishes the last book cause GRRM will never do it. Ah magic the savior of the lazy writer.

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Hexel
Nov 18, 2011




Elephanthead posted:

HBO is hoping magic somehow finishes the last book cause GRRM will never do it. Ah magic the savior of the lazy writer.

I just need some closure about Benjen Stark..

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