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Malcolm XML posted:greybeard implies some sort of competence cloaked in knowing condescension bsd can definitely act like a jerk, but he's displayed good judgement on the subjects of builds and deployments and that kind of thing -- his head is in the right place there
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May 28, 2014 13:19
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 16:38
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ahmeni posted:bsd is a garbage clown poster who holds on to old lovely standards like the Debian processes and X11 because if they become irrelevant than so does he yes it is much easier to imagine i am an old man sliding into irrelevance than to consider the consequences of halfassing everything all the time
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May 28, 2014 16:46
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idk i like gnome 3 and all, or at least i like the direction it's going in, but you guys at rh (suspicious dish and co) do realise that you and you alone completely and utterly killed linux desktops as a going concern with the catastrophic gently caress up that was the gnome 3 rollout "hi, gnome 2 is discontinued as of right now. go gently caress yourself if you were relying on it for your day-to-day. here is a tech demo of something that might have a useful quantity of features to be a mainstream desktop environment in 5 years. p.s. it requires functional opengl drivers in order to operate at all and those won't really exist for another three years, longer if you don't want to take a massive battery life hit on your laptop. they also have to be open-source because our out-of-the-box story for installing the proprietary nvidia drivers is still awful" like why the poo poo did you not migrate to gtk3 first and THEN gradually phase out gnome-panel?
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May 28, 2014 16:53
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also the perennial tradition of removing all useful features for 'simplicity' then bringing them all back over the following releases
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May 28, 2014 16:55
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i think its p good now tho
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May 28, 2014 16:57
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Mr Dog posted:like why the poo poo did you not migrate to gtk3 first and THEN gradually phase out gnome-panel? for one thing, gtk 3 itself is a work in progress
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May 28, 2014 16:58
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gnome 3 and kde 4 were both disasters kde recovered a lot faster though. kde 4 is now capable of 99% of the old kde 3 UI features, and has added way more good stuff not related to UI. if you want to use a linux desktop, coming from windows or osx, you probably want kde for osx users:
for windows users:
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May 28, 2014 17:03
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drawbacks of kde: [*] looks like dogshit
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May 28, 2014 17:04
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Mr Dog posted:drawbacks of kde: well you installed linux i'm not sure there was ever the reasonable expectation that it wouldn't look like dogshit looking like dogshit is a time-honored tradition in unix desktops. everyone knows about Sun's garish purple, HP's unreadable blue-on-blue etc. DEC beat them all, they had a dogshit-colored theme as the default: 
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May 28, 2014 17:08
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Mr Dog posted:idk i like gnome 3 and all, or at least i like the direction it's going in, but you guys at rh (suspicious dish and co) do realise that you and you alone completely and utterly killed linux desktops as a going concern with the catastrophic gently caress up that was the gnome 3 rollout Of course. I think it's the same situation as KDE4. In retrospect, everybody agrees that we should have maintained GNOME2 at the same time as developing GNOME3. But while you're there working on building something new together with 20 other people, it's easy to get too excited and not realize how far you really have go, and how much of your user base you'll frustrate.
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May 28, 2014 17:09
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Suspicious Dish posted:Of course. I think it's the same situation as KDE4. yeah except kde 4 can be used by an existing windows/osx/kde3/gnome2 user w/out extensive retraining
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May 28, 2014 17:10
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gently caress all that poo poo i3 4 lyfe
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May 28, 2014 17:11
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:well you installed linux i'm not sure there was ever the reasonable expectation that it wouldn't look like dogshit nah that ui actually looks very nice, and you can tell that it was designed by somebody with a sense of aesthetics. for starters, text and widgets are aligned and centered properly, and there is a decent amount of padding. the colours are simple, complementary, and not over-saturated. gnome 3 looks gorgeous imho, that's one thing it really has going for it. now let's look at the first gis result for "kde"  (the postit is a tribute to a deceased kde contributor, it appears in most of kde's promotional images for their latest release) this looks like i've got grease on my screen. everything glows and looks blurry as a result. there are drop shadows everywhere. gratuitous transparency is everywhere: in that desktop-bound window thing, in the tray popup, in the music player widgets. it even looks like poo poo with their chosen wallpaper and it'll be completely illegible with any wallpaper that has any sort of hard edges in it. there is no frosted-glass effect to at least make the transparency merely gaudy instead of gaudy and illegible. linux developers have this inexplicable childish fascination with translucency, this was a boring graphical effect 20 years ago and there's a reason that only linux childes use it. vista and windows 7 use gratuitous transparency everywhere and it looks like poo poo there as well, kde just looks like a worse version of something that looks bad to begin with. there are grey gradients and specular highlights everywhere. this is a grab bag of mismatched poo poo. you want an osx-like photorealistic style? ditch the gradients, those don't occur in nature. you want a stylised ~*authentically digital*~ looks? then ditch the specular highlights and blown out colours in the icons, also subdue the rounded corners a bit. in fact get rid of the hard saturated primary colours in the icons to begin with, it looks gaudy and tacky (not really all that visible in this picture but kde's icons suffer from this quite a bit) then there's kde's endless problem with padding and alignment. everything is slightly off and it's clear the designer didn't give a gently caress. the generic CD cover on the music player control widget is off-center. the date under the time is off-center. the volume icon in the tray is far bigger than the envelope icon. there is no padding or demarcation between the menu bar and the tool bar in the music player. there are four different font sizes in that music player (title bar, menu bar and song list, song title, artist, status bar). the big song title is some sort of gaudy Arial that just looks like poo poo. i'm not even going to pick on the kde control center but that's the king of misaligned poo poo with no padding whatsoever.
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May 28, 2014 17:26
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This is dumb. Instead of talking about how KDE sucks or GNOME sucks, just use what you like and be happy with it. I'm fine with accepting criticism or feedback on GNOME 3, I'm not fine with this turning into a dumb "Your OS is a Piece of poo poo" slapfest. We're more professional than that.
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May 28, 2014 17:28
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Mr Dog posted:this looks like i've got grease on my screen. everything glows and looks blurry as a result. there are drop shadows everywhere. gratuitous transparency is everywhere: in that desktop-bound window thing, in the tray popup, in the music player widgets. it even looks like poo poo with their chosen wallpaper and it'll be completely illegible with any wallpaper that has any sort of hard edges in it. there is no frosted-glass effect to at least make the transparency merely gaudy instead of gaudy and illegible. the best part of all the dumbfuck glowing dropshadowed transparency is that it's hard to turn off. i had to google how to make my taskbar opaque so i could read window titles.
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May 28, 2014 17:30
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Suspicious Dish posted:This is dumb. Instead of talking about how KDE sucks or GNOME sucks, just use what you like and be happy with it. I'm fine with accepting criticism or feedback on GNOME 3, I'm not fine with this turning into a dumb "Your OS is a Piece of poo poo" slapfest. We're more professional than that. a.) we're not b.) gnome 3 is bad and it's not going to get better because the badness is the design goal
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May 28, 2014 17:31
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gnome 3 is very white
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May 28, 2014 17:51
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i love gnome 3
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May 28, 2014 19:02
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I've been getting used to CentOS/yum lately, I think I might install a fedora Vm today and see how gnome3 is going on that
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May 28, 2014 19:36
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Mr Dog posted:drawbacks of kde: for the new version coming in a couple of months they got some actual non-programmer design people to make it not look like poo poo  but yeah, the current kde theme somehow manages to merge the worst colors and design decisions possible into one ugly mess
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May 28, 2014 19:39
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The_Franz posted:for the new version coming in a couple of months they got some actual non-programmer design people to make it not look like poo poo is this kde 5, or something that will actually be usable before 2018 edit: yeah it is kde 5 / "plasma next" Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 19:42
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:is this kde 5, or something that will actually be usable before 2018 plasma-next, and it's in beta with a release scheduled for july
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May 28, 2014 19:43
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The_Franz posted:plasma-next, and it's in beta with a release scheduled for july kde 4.0 released more or less on time, in 2008 kde 4.8, the first good version, landed in 2012
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May 28, 2014 19:46
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:well you installed linux i'm not sure there was ever the reasonable expectation that it wouldn't look like dogshit this is incredibly readable, dunno why youd poo poo on it
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May 28, 2014 20:21
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Bloody posted:this is incredibly readable, dunno why youd poo poo on it it's perfectly nice to use, but i wouldn't call it attractive.
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May 28, 2014 20:23
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well you bait-and-switched that image when you posted it, because your original one looked nicer still. it has a nice low colour temperature, the contrast is good, the spacing is good, it's subdued, and it's pretty unobtrusive all things considered. the ui is dumb, certainly (why does this app think it's so important that it should have a copyright notice in the title bar? what the gently caress is a "session manager" and what specific real-world task does this tool sitting on my desktop constantly help me to accomplish?) but as a profession we've generally learned from our mistakes since then.
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May 28, 2014 21:12
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Bloody posted:this is incredibly readable, dunno why youd poo poo on it the ink:data ratio is too high. bunch of extraneous ornamentation on the window borders pointless "etching" effect non anti-aliased text, icons etc. etc. but if you fix that it's pretty good, and it's pretty good for its time i guess
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May 28, 2014 21:12
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The_Franz posted:for the new version coming in a couple of months they got some actual non-programmer design people to make it not look like poo poo this looks far more polished and might actually convince me to try KDE again for the first time since early KDE3 adopted that Krystal diahorrea. it's still the KDE 4 palette and design motif but it's actually done competently this time
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May 28, 2014 21:15
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The "Google+ - Google Chrome" text is still a bit low-contrast, but I have bad eyesight, so maybe that's on me. Some of the icons, like the Wi-Fi icon, look off-model. Maybe it's just a taste thing. Looks a lot better than the Web 2.0 look they were going for before, though.
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May 28, 2014 21:39
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Mr Dog posted:this looks far more polished and might actually convince me to try KDE again for the first time since early KDE3 adopted that Krystal diahorrea. don't worry, by the time they release this theme will be half-abandoned and buried six menus deep in 'systm settings'
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May 30, 2014 01:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:don't worry, by the time they release this theme will be half-abandoned and buried six menus deep in 'systm settings' i still want windows xp beta's 'watercolor' theme in, somewhere
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May 30, 2014 03:36
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even the jankiest 90s ui is perfection compared with some of the shined-up poo poo we have to deal with now
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May 30, 2014 03:41
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papa_november posted:even the jankiest 90s ui is perfection compared with some of the shined-up poo poo we have to deal with now bbbut computers are amazing and have you ever heard of UX? the experience is half the battle and we gave that to our marketing team and this is what we collectively puked into a bucket
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May 30, 2014 03:45
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CDE got open sourced in 2012 unfortunately the code is bitrotten as gently caress. like, nobody has done a successful 100% build since 1995 bitrotten. vendors were apparently really bad about sending patches upstream. the build scripts don't really work even on the 1995 platforms. some very dedicated hobbyists have gotten about 90% of it to work on linux. dtlogin is wonky. tooltalk may or may not work. dtksh, the shell API to write gui apps, is completely broken. 
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May 30, 2014 03:53
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bump I'm having doubts about continuing to renew my LWN subscription, because even that place is beginning to succumb to groupthink with I HATE SYSTEMD  and I HATE GNOME 3 posters going around making GBS threads up unrelated discussionsdon't even get me started on Michael Larabel's poo poo pit of a site
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Jun 11, 2014 17:54
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that's sad because most of LWN's articles that I happened to read are good stuff.
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Jun 12, 2014 05:39
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Mr Dog posted:bump i keep forgetting lwn exists. i with their discussions weren't threaded. threaded boards are the worst.
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Jun 12, 2014 09:14
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Sassafras fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 12, 2014 10:33
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I mean tbf I actually like gnome 3 and even I'm starting to get soured by some of the poo poo that Alan Day (UI designer) comes up with, because it's becoming increasingly evident that this guy has no plan or ability to think things through and just makes poo poo up as he goes along. Like the new notification centre. Good for the most part (but then they basically just ripped off Android's notification centre wholesale) but the mockups show private IM messages on the lock screen. Oh but don't worry, you can turn that off. Well, not really, you can turn off lock screen notifications from the IM system. So you have to janitor this mis-designed poo poo whose design doesn't recognise that IMs are at all different from any other kind of notification, despite them making a big deal in the early releases of being able to respond to IMs straight from the notification system so that it's ~*distraction free*~ more to the point it still gives no persistent indication of pending notifications. so if somebody's trying to get ahold of you and you look the wrong way for two seconds then you're not going to know about it for hours, potentially. so i have to ask, how god drat incompetent do you have to think that this would be at all well received? sure let's just ignore the primary purpose of a notification system, nbd. suspicious dish would give his universal answer of "file a bug report" but it'll inevitably get CLOSED WONTFIX because no notification system that is fit for purpose can be made consistent with the gnome 3 ~*artistic vision*~. you can't debate major design decisions on bug trackers. The design language of gnome 3 has changed a lot over time as well, which again makes me think they don't know what the gently caress they're doing and just throw random poo poo against the wall until people don't hate it too much. look at the menu in the top-right corner of the screen for an example of this, there hasn't been a single release where they haven't changed stuff around there and managed to piss off a different group of people with that iteration's changes.
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