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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

ColdPie posted:

I've got an HPDE coming up at the end of May with my Z4. This will be my fourth HPDE, and third with this car.

I just called a reputable shop to schedule an alignment, and also asked them to do a tech inspection. I did this for a couple reasons. One, I haven't had an alignment for the car ever; I bought it in early 2012, so I have no idea where the alignment is at. Two, it was in a pretty bad accident while parked in March 2012, and I'd like another shop to double-check the repair work that was done back then, plus one of the track days requires a tech inspection anyway. And finally, I think I'd like a slightly more aggressive alignment for the 2-4 track days I expect to do this year and in the coming years.

I expect the shop will be able to give me some advice specific to the car, but just so I'm not going in completely clueless, does anyone have broad advice for a mostly-street-but-also-track alignment? Based off this short page, I expect I'm looking around -1 or -2 degrees camber and 0 toe on all four corners. Does this sound about right? Anything else I should have them do for the suspension or inspection while they've got it? I'm doing oil, brake fluid, and coolant myself this month, and I've already got a set of track pads and rotors.

Am I wasting my money on the alignment (around $150), and should just have them do the inspection (around $50 alone or free with the alignment)?
In Minneapolis, this is the only real place to go for an alignment unless something has changed.
http://www.thealignmentguy.com/
Also, you can be completely clueless and he'll still set up the car right.

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aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE
I noticed that as well. It also looks like you can keep more speed through 7 and 8 and trail brake more into 9. Carry more speed through 15 and 16 too: check out my line following this Mustang through there at 1:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbIGKtq6Nik

Looks like fun, how was the rest of the day?

aventari fucked around with this message at 08:02 on May 9, 2014

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

What is everyone up to on Memorial Day? You should hit the track at Lime Rock Park with me! Unmuffled day which is really rare at Lime Rock Park.

http://msreg.com/GetLoud2014

Should be fun times. We even do a potluck BBQ at 7PM on Sunday before the event. Bring some food and we'll chuck it on the grill.

TrueChaos
Nov 14, 2006




My HP+'s have 4-5mm left. I've got a track day in a few weeks and am torn on if I should replace them or not. Thoughts?

the poi
Oct 24, 2004

turbo volvo, wooooo!
Grimey Drawer

TrueChaos posted:

My HP+'s have 4-5mm left. I've got a track day in a few weeks and am torn on if I should replace them or not. Thoughts?

Yes. Thats pushing it. Keep em in your trunk though, so if you run them next set completely out you can swap them in at the track!

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

TrueChaos posted:

My HP+'s have 4-5mm left. I've got a track day in a few weeks and am torn on if I should replace them or not. Thoughts?

I have been told, but not personally witnessed that pads with what would seem like reasonable life on the street are bad for the track because they can remove from the backing plate or something. Don't know if that is true or just an old wives' tale.

Longpig Bard
Dec 29, 2004



TrueChaos posted:

My HP+'s have 4-5mm left. I've got a track day in a few weeks and am torn on if I should replace them or not. Thoughts?

I'd wear them down to 2 mm

SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

nm posted:

I have been told, but not personally witnessed that pads with what would seem like reasonable life on the street are bad for the track because they can remove from the backing plate or something. Don't know if that is true or just an old wives' tale.

De-lamination is certainly possible, but shouldn’t happen on well-built pads. I've run PFC's down to <1mm on track with no issues. Hawk shouldn't have trouble with their adhesives, either.

TrueChaos
Nov 14, 2006




Thanks guys. New pads ordered, going to swap them on prior to the event and keep these ones as spares.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


nm posted:

I have been told, but not personally witnessed that pads with what would seem like reasonable life on the street are bad for the track because they can remove from the backing plate or something. Don't know if that is true or just an old wives' tale.

I've run Hawk pads on the street and track for ~12 years, never had an issue with de-lamination. Usually running them strictly on the track but on occasion running them on the street for extended amounts of time if I'm being lazy.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

c355n4 posted:

What is everyone up to on Memorial Day? You should hit the track at Lime Rock Park with me! Unmuffled day which is really rare at Lime Rock Park.

http://msreg.com/GetLoud2014

Should be fun times. We even do a potluck BBQ at 7PM on Sunday before the event. Bring some food and we'll chuck it on the grill.

poo poo, thanks for posting this! I moved to Buffalo NY but I'll be back in MA & RI for that whole week. Do I need to sign up for anything else, or just through here? gently caress I really shouldn't be spending that kind of money right now but I want to :(

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Sab669 posted:

poo poo, thanks for posting this! I moved to Buffalo NY but I'll be back in MA & RI for that whole week. Do I need to sign up for anything else, or just through here? gently caress I really shouldn't be spending that kind of money right now but I want to :(

If you have questions, feel free to e-mail us info (at) imgracing.com. You'll get the best/fastest answers via that e-mail. Are you planning on running the HPDE/Time Trial sessions or the sprint races?

Trust me, it'll be worth it. If you've never been, Lime Rock Park is a beautiful track with lots of history. Really nice paddock.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009

It'd just be Time Trial; my only "track" experience was Opening Weekend at Watkins Glen out here in WNY. Wanted to check out Lime Rock before I left RI but never had the money to do so. Thanks for the email link, I'll have to do some number crunching :)

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

Sab669 posted:

It'd just be Time Trial; my only "track" experience was Opening Weekend at Watkins Glen out here in WNY. Wanted to check out Lime Rock before I left RI but never had the money to do so. Thanks for the email link, I'll have to do some number crunching :)

You should definitely do it. If you sign up, let me know. We have some great instructors. If you're just time trialing, you just have to sign up for the "HPDE Entry" and if you want you can add the skipad (but that is optional).

Even if you don't sign up, feel free to come out and spectate.

Some of the Sheep
May 25, 2005
POSSIBLY IT WOULD BE SIMPLER IF I ASKED FOR A LIST OF THE HARMLESS CREATURES OF THE AFORESAID CONTINENT?
Had a close call last time out in the superkart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIFeXIQV7lY

Two things learned:
1. Even though I've started winning races this year I'm still pretty inexperienced when the unexpected occurs. I instinctively moved to go around the spinning 51 even though it's obvious you run out of room doing it. It's obvious what you're supposed to do (in this instance tuck back in behind 69), just hard to train the body to do it in the split seconds that count.
2. Low ride height + uneven ground = stranded go kart!

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
While that's all true. You also managed to not hit him and you went off straight so you did do a good bit right.

Some of the Sheep
May 25, 2005
POSSIBLY IT WOULD BE SIMPLER IF I ASKED FOR A LIST OF THE HARMLESS CREATURES OF THE AFORESAID CONTINENT?
Cheers. It did grate a little at the time though, as luckily for 51 his spin left him stalled on the very verge of the track so he just let the field by and then trundled off, leaving me the only casualty.

SpaceRangerJoe
Dec 24, 2003

The little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
Does anyone have some recommendations on gloves? I have a pair of sparcos that I like, but I have no idea what model they are. I want to get my brother a pair for his birthday, but I don't know much about that. Mine have the seams on the outside which is pretty nice, so I'd like to get something like that.

SlapActionJackson
Jul 27, 2006

I have a pair of these: http://www.saferacer.com/sparco-land-gloves?gclid=CO_-kK6dsb4CFeMF7AodY3sA-g , but the previous generation.

They're comfortable (even in the heat, which was a surprise).

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004

SpaceRangerJoe posted:

Does anyone have some recommendations on gloves? I have a pair of sparcos that I like, but I have no idea what model they are. I want to get my brother a pair for his birthday, but I don't know much about that. Mine have the seams on the outside which is pretty nice, so I'd like to get something like that.

I like my alpinestar tech 1-kx but they're not fireproof if that's a requirement.

parid
Mar 18, 2004
I really like my omp gloves. Well built with a nice sturdy long cuff that easily covers my suit sleeves so I never have to fiddle with them.

parid fucked around with this message at 02:54 on May 17, 2014

Ziploc
Sep 19, 2006
MX-5
Are you all using gloves on leather wheels?

I've never felt the need to use them on anything other than alcantara. But I'm listening.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
I use my OMP gloves on my leather Momo. Feels good.

NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES
Do any of you guys have experience with the NecksGen Rev? I have to get a head and neck restraint to be able to race my formula 500 car. It seems like it would be better than an adjustable HANS device. Being cheaper with the new lemons $100 rebate helps too.

In other news. I got signed off for my SCCA novice permit last friday. :dance: It was pretty fun at Portland International Raceway but tiring driving my car for 3-4hrs on track throughout the day. The rain was ridiculous at times but I only spun out 8 times. Even with my hoosier wets I barely had any grip since my car is so light(800lbs with me in it).

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


I use the cheap OMP gloves for chump race and cooler track days, they're comfortable and are holding up fine so far.

One of the guys on our team uses the NecksGen and likes it. As long as it works I can't really see a reason to get a HANS over a NecksGen, especially with the rebates out there now. Dad and I share a HANS and my only complaint is once and a while the buckles on the helmet can be a bit of a pain to release or engage if you're in a hurry.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007

NinjaTech posted:

Do any of you guys have experience with the NecksGen Rev? I have to get a head and neck restraint to be able to race my formula 500 car. It seems like it would be better than an adjustable HANS device. Being cheaper with the new lemons $100 rebate helps too.

In other news. I got signed off for my SCCA novice permit last friday. :dance: It was pretty fun at Portland International Raceway but tiring driving my car for 3-4hrs on track throughout the day. The rain was ridiculous at times but I only spun out 8 times. Even with my hoosier wets I barely had any grip since my car is so light(800lbs with me in it).

I use a NecksGen Rev and I prefer it over the equivalently priced HANs. I can't speak for the newer/fancier HANS models; but, compared to the Sport it is a bit nicer. The biggest thing that I notice is that 3" belts seem to just sit into place better on the NecksGen when you are buckling in.

Do you have any specific questions about it?

Grats on the SCCA novice permit!

Longpig Bard
Dec 29, 2004



Ziploc posted:

Are you all using gloves on leather wheels?

I've never felt the need to use them on anything other than alcantara. But I'm listening.

Ford had the bizarre desire to put slippery palm width plastic at 9 and 3 on the Mustang steering wheel, so I use gloves.

NinjaTech
Sep 30, 2003

do you have any PANTIES

c355n4 posted:

I use a NecksGen Rev and I prefer it over the equivalently priced HANs. I can't speak for the newer/fancier HANS models; but, compared to the Sport it is a bit nicer. The biggest thing that I notice is that 3" belts seem to just sit into place better on the NecksGen when you are buckling in.

Do you have any specific questions about it?

Grats on the SCCA novice permit!

Thanks for the info. I've decided on getting the NecksGen Rev. It seems like it will be better than the adjustable HANS since there is nothing to adjust for different seating positions. That will be good for going from the F500 car to the lemons car. Saving some cash on it will be a bonus too. It might actually allow me one more race weekend this season.

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh
Is it worth it having a camber/caster gauge for the track? I'm completely unable to feel out tire pressures so I plan on going splits on a tire pyrometer with a friend. He was also thinking about getting a camber gauge to adjust setups at the track as we both run adjustable camber plates.

The idea is appealing, but how fast can you actually setup and use them? He was looking at longacre and fastrax, given the prices he sent me I assume it was bubble style gauges. There is an open garage area at the track we can use as a flat surface.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

Crustashio posted:

Make sure the shop knows about removing the alignment pins up front to get extra camber.

Don't run 0 rear toe on a BMW. I suggest 1/8" total toe in on the rear, zero in the front.

If you're OK with zero front toe on the street, run as much negative front camber as you can reasonably get. You'll probably hit -2 in the front if you're lucky. BMWs front suspension really favours lots of static negative camber to counteract camber loss during roll. For the rear I'd probably shoot for -1 to -1.5. I'm not super familar with Z4 alignments, I'm basing these of my knowledge of e36 suspension. Your best bet would be to google "Z4 track alignment" and do some reading.

Thanks for the suggestions. I found some suggestions online and passed those on to my mechanic, along with a general request to err towards street driving, since it gets more street time than track time. I just got it back from the shop. They pulled the pins and ended up dialing out the toe-in (down from 0.21° and 0.35°!), though the camber remained mostly unchanged.

Final specs are:
LF: -1.1° camber, 0.01° toe-in
RF: -1.3° camber, 0.01° toe-in

LR: -1.3° camber, 0.09° toe-in
RR: -1.4° camber, 0.09° toe-in

Driving home felt like the steering was lighter, and like it tracked with the grooves in the road less, less like it was trying to steer itself. Maybe that was just confirmation bias.

So excited to finally head up to the track next Friday!

ColdPie fucked around with this message at 22:21 on May 22, 2014

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


ColdPie posted:

Thanks for the suggestions. I found some suggestions online and passed those on to my mechanic, along with a general request to err towards street driving, since it gets more street time than track time. I just got it back from the shop. They pulled the pins and ended up dialing out the toe-in (down from 0.21° and 0.35°!), though the camber remained mostly unchanged.

Final specs are:
LF: -1.1° camber, 0.01° toe-in
RF: -1.3° camber, 0.01° toe-in

LR: -1.3° camber, 0.09° toe-in
RR: -1.4° camber, 0.09° toe-in

Driving home felt like the steering was lighter, and like it tracked with the grooves in the road less, less like it was trying to steer itself. Maybe that was just confirmation bias.

So excited to finally head up to the track next Friday!

Think that's pretty close to what we run on the Chump except maybe a bit more camber because it looks cool, should feel great on the track.

Are you running the full or competition course? Can't remember if they even rent out the full course very often any more. Either way have fun.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

The competition course, but the schedule is pretty mixed. I've never been on the full course, they're always using the main straight for drags.

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

ColdPie posted:

The competition course, but the schedule is pretty mixed. I've never been on the full course, they're always using the main straight for drags.

What are you racing next week? I'll be in the #88 Golf GTi. Very stoked about the new Schroth Enduro harness we have this season, my teammate tells me it's the poo poo.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

I'm not doing WRL. I'm just up that Friday for an HPDE in my Z4. Nitrospaz will be racing with you, though.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


I'll be in the #86 E30 vert now featuring a tonneau cover so it looks even more like a pickup truck.

If I can talk the other guys into it the car might not be red anymore...

sig11
Sep 9, 2005
Stop fucking my horse with asparagus.
I had my first serious on track (or for that matter on street) incident yesterday morning. I was chasing a Corvette and Grattan Raceway and as I came up the hill the car just suddenly darted left after an upshift. I'm not sure if something broke or if I hosed up the clutch release but I remember it being smooth. I was pinned against the tree so I had a hard time letting the corner worker know that I was ok. Didn't want to get out until it was safe but when I saw him sprinting across the track I figured it was shut down and I crawled out the passenger side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaIzFCkL51w

I think the whole rest of the 3Balls staff jumped in the truck to come get me and after the medics cleared me I posed in front of the car and we pulled it out.

Was looking good with my new hood beforehand. Now I need a new fender, tie rods, LCA bushing and to straighten the shock mounting arm thingie. I think I should be good to go by the 3Balls charity event at Waterford Hills Road Racing on 6/21.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Had a very wet 12 hour race at BIR yesterday with WRL. Missed ColdPie but got to race with drgitlin's team for a while. Day started and ended very wet with standing water in a few places but we had 5-6 hours of dry racing in the middle of the day as well, temps were pretty nice and even with the rain it was good.

I drove first session (2.25hrs) and last session (3.5hrs) so as I was finishing my first session the track was starting to try and a couple laps into my last session it started pouring. Worked good though because no one else enjoys rain driving and I was able to move up through the field pretty good. Our car was in the GP2 class along with drgitlin's GTI and three other cars. We ended up getting first place in GP2 by a pretty good margin and 5th overall. Race for GP2 would have been a lot closer if their GTI didn't have issues.

Really like the WRL rules and hope the series takes off. They are very serious about no contact and the power:weight class system is great. This event only had 24 cars start but I think it will get more once people hear about it. We'll likely be doing more WRL races and less ChumpCar races next year.


Now a question for you guys. What are you doing for defog when it's raining? We don't have a heater core and even with lots of rain-x I couldn't see poo poo. After pitting (more rain-x) the windshield would fog up in a couple laps. E30 vert, no windows besides windscreen, open other than sheet metal roof.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 1, 2014

parid
Mar 18, 2004
I see a lot of these installed on windshields in the northwest. Drivers I talked to didn't mind it at all.

http://www.frostfighter.com/clear-view-defrosters-about.htm

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.
As NitroSpazz says, WRL is a *great* new series. Driving standards were fantastic all day, everyone showed respect and gave each other room, and I had some great battles out there. I had a great 2.45h stint in the car, going in second, and some awesome battles with people on a very wet, and then eventually a drying track. We were in 5th place overall and leading GP2 when 5th gear decided it didn't really enjoy life any more and we had to park the car rather than blowing holes in the tranny. Heartbreaking (especially as only half the team got to drive) but that's racing I guess. Happy for NitroSpazz that they managed to do what we couldn't, gutted that the 'box broke because if it hadn't that place was ours.

Managed to say hi to ColdPie briefly on Friday too.

If WRL races in your area, seriously consider giving them a try. Joey puts on a class operation and if we didn't do any more chumpcar races and just stuck to WRL I wouldn't mind.

Now I think we might be about to make the switch to the dark side and race prep an E36 M3, because I don't think anyone on the team can take the pain of yet another transmission problem putting us out of contention again, and it's happened a few times too often with the Golf (even though we all adore driving it).

NitroSpazz - take the windscreen out like Noel did with his Neon? Thankfully the Golf didn't have that problem, but the passenger side windscreen wiper did decide it wanted to join its companion over on my side of the car for about half the race which was pretty annoying.

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





sig11 posted:

I had my first serious on track (or for that matter on street) incident yesterday morning. I was chasing a Corvette and Grattan Raceway and as I came up the hill the car just suddenly darted left after an upshift. I'm not sure if something broke or if I hosed up the clutch release but I remember it being smooth.

Unless that 350Z is making stupid power, that doesn't seem like a place where a rough upshift should cause you to snap around like that.

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