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See, taking Pass doesn't make the Wight any worse at murder and Jump Up just means that they're marginally better at murder (and better at running.) Since Pass opens up more play options (and therefore plays to show the audience,) I think it's more fun.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:18
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Mighty Dicktron posted:See, taking Pass doesn't make the Wight any worse at murder and Jump Up just means that they're marginally better at murder (and better at running.) Since Pass opens up more play options (and therefore plays to show the audience,) I think it's more fun. It also adds more flexibility to an already flexible team. Hm. I'm not changing my vote in order to avoid annoying bookkeeping issues, but Pass definitely has it's merits.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:19
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apostateCourier posted:It also adds more flexibility to an already flexible team. Hm. I'm not changing my vote in order to avoid annoying bookkeeping issues, but Pass definitely has it's merits. LPs are about making the runner suffer. Annoying book-keeping is just part of the charm.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:21
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Voting for Pass. While I don't have a shred of real Blood Bowl experience yet thanks to my crappy internet connection, it always seemed to me that making the opposing coach's blood boil is a superior option to spilling blood on the field, and nothing pisses me off like bullshit Elf plays.
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Jun 2, 2014 08:38
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TheMcD posted:Voting for Pass. While I don't have a shred of real Blood Bowl experience yet thanks to my crappy internet connection, it always seemed to me that making the opposing coach's blood boil is a superior option to spilling blood on the field, and nothing pisses me off like bullshit Elf plays. And for the people who want murder, having catching skills on a Wight also might help him murder people more, because, as a catching threat, opponents will want to mark him, putting them in perfect punching position. But oh well, its probably too late for the vote to shift significantly.
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Jun 2, 2014 10:44
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Maekrix Waere posted:See, this is why I originally voted for Diving Catch, because it lets Wight Power catch accurate passes on a 2+, and inaccurate passes that would land next to him on a 3+. It would let him (in my admittedly limited experience) function decently well as a catcher, and lets us start with elf bullshit right now. Pass would too, of course, but, again, in my experience, Ghouls are usually going to be the primary ball handlers of the team. They're going to be picking up and running with the ball, and they're the ones who should get Pass (if we want to elf it up), because they'll probably have the ball in hand already. Diving catch is a normal on ghouls and werewolfs, though. Pass is a double for any player on the team.
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Jun 2, 2014 11:16
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Based on the comments others have said, changing my vote to Pass. Hopefully the threat of a passing game spreads out our opponents line and gives our punchy dudes more opportunity to kill stuff, so we get the best of both worlds.
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Jun 2, 2014 12:04
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Honestly I don't care if the Wight gets a good skill or not because we've been very nice up to this point, but GNU Order's probably not going to actually use the Wight to pass more than a couple of times in the LP max even if you give him a skill that makes him marginally better at it, because that usually means keeping that Wight back. The only passes he's maybe going to throw are maybe a short lateral to a ghoul or werewolf. To be quite honest Hail Mary Pass would be more useful, because the Wight always wants to be near the ball no matter who has it and that makes him able to punt really well. In fact gently caress it voting for Hail Mary Pass.
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Jun 2, 2014 15:08
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Ablative posted:Pass. Welp, I still prefer Jump Up, but I can't resist a good joke. Changing vote: Jump Up -> Pass.
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Jun 2, 2014 15:24
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Pass because every team should be elfy.
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Jun 2, 2014 15:26
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What a waste of spp.
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Jun 2, 2014 15:34
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Steelpudding posted:What a waste of spp. Seriously, it's not even any more funhaving than a skill that makes him better at punching eventually because he's just never going to use it. This isn't Chaos and a Wight isn't a Beastman, he's not going to keep him back to pass like Superstar Sett Carve.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:07
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That would be poor playing, though. Agility 3 pass is perfectly viable for making a limited throwing game possible, and being as sturdy as wights are he's pretty decent for keeping hold of the ball as well. Hell, most throwers start out with agility 3 and pass, and this guy isn't useless at other things either. Basically we go from no throwing game to it being a genuine threat. It may not be totally optimal, but we're not doing a democracy game to design an optimal team.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:21
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V. Illych L. posted:That would be poor playing, though. Agility 3 pass is perfectly viable for making a limited throwing game possible, and being as sturdy as wights are he's pretty decent for keeping hold of the ball as well. Hell, most throwers start out with agility 3 and pass, and this guy isn't useless at other things either. I'm sold. Keep Pass Ra's al (or however it's spelled).
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Jun 2, 2014 16:23
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Gnu should just be happy he's getting Pass before Strong Arm (as was the case the first time around with Sett Cavre), because at least he doesn't have to hope for doubles in the future to make it not a total waste. He can have his skill wasted right away. So much more convenient. Besides, if you don't like watching people suffer, then you don't like Blood Bowl.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:34
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V. Illych L. posted:That would be poor playing, though. Agility 3 pass is perfectly viable for making a limited throwing game possible, and being as sturdy as wights are he's pretty decent for keeping hold of the ball as well. Hell, most throwers start out with agility 3 and pass, and this guy isn't useless at other things either. It makes it a viable play (though not really as viable as most AG3 teams' passing because we don't have any skills on anyone that make them better at catching balls) but it doesn't change the fact that Necromantic is incredible at running the ball and the Wight would almost always be better used punching a hole for a Ghoul to score on the ground. That said, this is the truth: Magnetic North posted:Besides, if you don't like watching people suffer, then you don't like Blood Bowl. We've given him enough good skills that I'm perfectly comfortable giving him a totally worthless skill he'll never ever use, I just want to make sure everyone's not getting their hopes up that he'll actually try making passes. Maybe you give him Sure Hands and Strong Arm and Catch on a Ghoul or Werewolf and he'll do that, but with just Pass he's not going to roll all those extra dice for something a ghoul can do. Feinne fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 16:36
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Yeah. The problem with pass on a blitzer type is it will never get much of a chance to be used. Better to have something that we'll actually see each episode.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:37
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Well if you're going to argue utility, let's just never go for anything other than blodge, pomb and jump up and call it a day. Or, we can design the most incredibly eclectic necromantic team - keeping all zombies that get MVP until we can have a sprint/catch zombie, a fouling zombie and a kick off specialist zombie, thus creating a huge TV sink of hilarious plays.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:49
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^^^^That's sort of my thinking. We don't want Fairly Elected to be the most successful team, necessarily. We *do* want them to be a fun team. Which means versatility, which means doing suboptimal stuff to open up possibilities for unorthodox plays. Like the Pass vote will.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:51
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V. Illych L. posted:That would be poor playing, though. Agility 3 pass is perfectly viable for making a limited throwing game possible, and being as sturdy as wights are he's pretty decent for keeping hold of the ball as well. Hell, most throwers start out with agility 3 and pass, and this guy isn't useless at other things either.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:51
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I'd like to remind any of the naysayers that this thing is real and it works fine: I pass with him at least once every match and do 2 turn touchdowns. Sometimes 3 because snotlings are slow and dumb.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:52
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lenoon posted:Well if you're going to argue utility, let's just never go for anything other than blodge, pomb and jump up and call it a day. There's no entertainment in nothing working. Audacity is good, yes, but so is playing to strength, making players that people fear to face. Pass seems a waste, a disappointment, a letdown. AJ_Impy fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 16:53
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...but it does work, though. I don't know what the problem is. The only way that this is a complete waste is if GNU just outright refuses to ever use the skill or if we just ignore it in future player levelups. Pass is always a decent panic option, and it's just one skill on a ghoul away from being downright useful.
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Jun 2, 2014 16:57
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lenoon posted:a sprint/catch zombie
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Jun 2, 2014 17:07
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The best blitzers on the team are always going to be the dogs, doubly so if they feel inclined to roll doubles on leveling. There's an arseload of bog standard bash necro teams out there, indistinguishable from each other with pomb wights and a blodge sure hands ghoul and blitzing dogs. If you want to see them in action, you need just click the Spectate button in fumbbl (not sure if or how that works on cyanide). The whole point of a Blood Bowl LP in my eyes is seeing something a bit unorthodox done well and put to work. A Pass Strong Arm Wight is not a minmaxer's dream but it works alright, and it's fun to watch and doesn't deprive the team of its main damage dealers. There's still another Wight and two dogs to develop into the Standard Kill Stack.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:12
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One final vote tally before we close up, I'll have to put an actual time limit on voting, 5 PM CST (So like 6 hours from now) I'm also going to close the new Ghoul name as "Ra's Al" because it's basically won Wight Power's Level Pass - 34 Jump Up - 24 Dodge - 6 Leap - 1 Hail Mary Pass - 1 Leader - 1 New Ghoul Name Ra's al - Winner Pelvis Costello's Fate Keep - Winner A couple people jumped ship from JU to Pass and that might have secured the victory, ~6 more hours of voting though And FWIW (since Pass and Jump Up are the only real contenders) I would have gone with Dodge or ignored the dubs and went for Guard if I were voting. e- The interesting thing to me about both Pass and Jump Up is that they are not skills which can immediately change the Wight, they are best suited as combinations with other sets of skills on this player in particular. So, no matter what he gets, it won't make an immediate impact and the payoff won't happen until another level or two. Between the two Jump Up would make the most immediate short term impact but on a well-built team Pass could end up being more useful down the road. GNU Order fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 17:20
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Iretep posted:I'd like to remind any of the naysayers that this thing is real and it works fine: Well yeah if we manage to stack a bunch of skills on the Wight he will totally be good at passing eventually, this is not in dispute. I'm just saying that without minimum Sure Hands he's probably not going to be used any differently than he has been, because he's no better at touching the ball than a Ghoul right now and not really better at holding it than even our prospective new ghoul, never mind Santos. I guess Pass will let him do vanity passes more reliably for free SPP, it's got that going for it. And again look at what I voted for if you think I'm just saying to go for something boring. Duuk posted:The whole point of a Blood Bowl LP in my eyes is seeing something a bit unorthodox done well and put to work. A Pass Strong Arm Wight is not a minmaxer's dream but it works alright, and it's fun to watch and doesn't deprive the team of its main damage dealers. There's still another Wight and two dogs to develop into the Standard Kill Stack. I'd actually say what we really need if you want to see some Wight passes is like Strip Ball on a Werewolf, because like I said most of the viable Wight passes are going to be short laterals to a ghoul in the other guy's side of the pitch. And of course all this changes depending on what happens with the Wight and the rest of the team as they level. When he levels up again and rolls +AGI, I'll totally agree Pass was totes the right call. Feinne fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 17:21
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Well gently caress it seems like Pass is winning. Might as well rename him Flight Power if we are going to have him run away with the ball instead of hurting people.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:43
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There's still time. We just need a few goons to switch bandwagons.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:44
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Changing my vote from Dodge to Jump Up because I love an underdog.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:47
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Feinne posted:I'd actually say what we really need if you want to see some Wight passes is like Strip Ball on a Werewolf, because like I said most of the viable Wight passes are going to be short laterals to a ghoul in the other guy's side of the pitch. Dogs get so much good stuff, I wouldn't put Strip on one. Especially when you consider they have Frenzy, they don't leap into cages (yet?) and ought to be getting good solid 2d blocks most of the time. Even just the threat of passing can be enough to open up some options. When you have a potential catcher in range of the touchdown, the opponent has to consider marking it (takes two players or one good one/in good position to pin down a ghoul), blitzing it or risking a touchdown next turn. It would be less of an issue in Serious Business Tournament Stalling, here GNU is likely to go for the most viewing pleasure in many cases. That translates into more, earlier, touchdowns. AG3 passing game, when skills like Pass and Catch are used, is reasonably reliable. Don't get me wrong, it will fail just like 1/36 dodges when you most need it not to, but with fast catchers (which ghouls well are) and reasonably sturdy rest of the team (which necros are) you should be able to bring the ball close enough to the target to make it a Quick or Short Pass. With stuff like throwing-game wood or pro elves, unless you are good at screening in the thick of battle, you might be tempted to hide the ball in the back field. That could somewhat ease the pressure on your frontline and keep squishies alive. Then you could squeeze it in across the whole pitch in one turn with your fancy ag4 passing. Yeah, that wouldn't work so well if you just relied on a dude with ag3 and pass. With necros, you can hold the line and press forward with the cage. And then, if you need to, use the threat of passing and see where it takes you.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:56
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I think the problem is that this team has ghouls. If you didn't have the worthless ghouls you could have a proper wight -> dog throwing game.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:58
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Yes, we don't have a Leap Werewolf. Yet. But seriously Strip Frenzy is pretty great for making a ball not be in the hands of a Blodger.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:12
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Necromantic is all about utility and versatility the dogs will always be the greatest blitzers on the team, wights are best built with things like guard, tackle, strip ball. To be used as sort of multi-tools when the situation deserves, pass fits into that quite nicely. I would ~like~ to get a double on a ghoul to give it pass instead but since you can't reasonably expect that wights work just fine. I wouldn't use the wight as the main ball carrier, but I would play with the knowledge that a ghoul handoff to wight, wight pass to werewolf, is a reasonable play to cover a great distance.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:16
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Feinne posted:Yes, we don't have a Leap Werewolf. Yet. I'm not saying it doesn't have its merit. I'd just prefer Tackle and making the ball never be in the hands of that Blodger again. (Because he dead, son.)
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Jun 2, 2014 18:19
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Hey guys I just saw this one. I recently picked up the Legendary edition. And I lost the general BB thread so whats is the goon leagues name and is it okay to apply a team. I would also eventually like to get in on this lets play but first I guess I need to get a beefy team going 
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Jun 2, 2014 18:20
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Duuk posted:I'm not saying it doesn't have its merit. Yeah but we just gave Pass to a Wight, so we're much more likely to end up with a Leap/Strip Ball Wolf than one with Tackle. Leap/Strip Ball/Wrassle Wolf, the least murdery wolf of all. Though you'd have to rename him Lassie at that point.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:28
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Come on, people. If you take Jump Up you can get the most fun and bullshit skill in the game later: Piling On! Wights were made for crucial blitzes, and being able to blitz a ballcarrier and then make sure they stay down without hindering your ability to get back up and protect the ball afterward is great! It even means if they pick the guy up and don't move him away, you can just block him again from the ground. Let the ghouls be the passers. Wights should be the blitzers.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:50
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In exchange for letting the werewolves get traditional hitting skills I have to try to make some other part of the team less optimal/more fun and on this team the easiest players to mess with are the wights, especially when the first skill up is a double.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:56
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Give the wolves juggernaught rename team "beach boys" e. Seriously, dicking about with the AI with a Khorne team right now, it's basically surf central. I'd try to do the same online, but then I'd be playing Khorne against actual thinking people and never win a single match
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Jun 2, 2014 19:59
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