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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Mr. Carlisle posted:

Have there been many cases in history like the UFC is dealing with right now for Chael's fight at UFC 175? Don't they usually just take a fight off the card or reschedule it further out if they have difficulty with multiple fighters having to drop out before the event or is that totally up to the remaining fighter as to whether or not he'll fight whoever they decide to toss in on short notice? Seems weird they're outright listing it as Chael VS TBD - I think that's the first time I've seen that on an official card rundown.

Curious to see who he actually ends up fighting after all the drug test/availability dust settles if Vitor also ends up being removed.

There have been fights where an injury forced a replacement, then another injury forced the original opponent out leaving two injury replacements to fight each other. Then one of the injury replacements got injured and they brought in another replacement. UFC really doesn't like cancelling fights.

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Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

LobsterMobster posted:

Sarah Kaufman had two opponents fall out before fighting Leslie Smith just a few months ago (Though both were injury replacements)

Dangersim posted:

UFC 151 was the biggest clusterfuck in history

MassRafTer posted:

There have been fights where an injury forced a replacement, then another injury forced the original opponent out leaving two injury replacements to fight each other. Then one of the injury replacements got injured and they brought in another replacement. UFC really doesn't like cancelling fights.

Appreciate the answers. Didn't know they usually tried so hard to keep a fight on the card and it's funny that UFC 151 was mentioned because I think my view on that was partially clouded by them outright cancelling UFC 151 when Jones refused to fight Sonnen. Apparently that was more of a one time thing then.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

Mr. Carlisle posted:

Appreciate the answers. Didn't know they usually tried so hard to keep a fight on the card and it's funny that UFC 151 was mentioned because I think my view on that was partially clouded by them outright cancelling UFC 151 when Jones refused to fight Sonnen. Apparently that was more of a one time thing then.

Venues for fight shows have to be booked months in advance, ticket sales begin months in advance, tons of bout agreements have to be sent out which is work and billable hours for employees, and for ppvs there's contractual stuff going on with the ppv providers. If you have to straight up cancel a show it costs a shitload of money.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

fatherdog posted:

Venues for fight shows have to be booked months in advance, ticket sales begin months in advance, tons of bout agreements have to be sent out which is work and billable hours for employees, and for ppvs there's contractual stuff going on with the ppv providers. If you have to straight up cancel a show it costs a shitload of money.

Yeah - I was talking more about individual fights being tossed and not entire cards but I guess in that case it was the headliner fight so people would have been pissed either way. Still crazy to me that Jones looked at the situation and just said "nope" and put his employer in one of it's most embarrassing situations ever. Then he manhandled Chael later on anyway.

Seltzer
Oct 11, 2012

Ask me about Game Pass: the Best Deal in Gaming!



Fozzy The Bear
Dec 11, 1999

Nothing much, watching the game, drinking a bud
Is there any unified mma rules concerning manipulating the ears? No small joint manipulation, no fish hooking. But could someone grab your ear and pull?

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
That would be covered by the Unified Rules' prohibition against putting your fingers in any of an opponent's orifices or "clawing, pinching, or twisting."

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

What is a reasonable amount of time to earn a legit BJJ black belt? I turn thirty soon and feel like making a declaration of something I should accomplish by 40.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Depends on whether or not you're terrible and how long and often you train. It's doable in as little as three or four years if you're a phenom, most people take about 10 or 11.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:

BlindSite posted:

Depends on whether or not you're terrible and how long and often you train. It's doable in as little as three or four years if you're a phenom, most people take about 10 or 11.

That's cool to know. Just thinking it might be a cool long term goal.

I am very terrible.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
Those people that get black belts in 3 or 4 years are usually doing it all day every day and usually competing all the time.

Phyzzle
Jan 26, 2008
Is there a single most accepted explanation for why there are so many injuries in MMA? There are bound to be more than in boxing, since MMA involves moving the limbs in a wider range and in many more directions than boxing. But there are other popular sports, especially football, that seem to put plenty of stress on the joints. I’ve heard a few different ideas:

1. There actually aren’t more injuries in MMA. You just don’t notice the injuries in other sports because the Superbowl isn’t canceled when Payton Manning sprains his thumb.

2. The injured guy himself is more likely to play through his injury in a team sport. This is partly because of feeling obligated to his teammates, and partly because he can afford a couple of sub-par performances without wrecking his career. A fighter puts the fate of the next year (or two) of his career into a single, rather quick competition that happens once every four months.

3. There are more injuries in MMA, and it’s because the sport is still developing. So, in addition to a gym’s main instructor, you might have a wrestling coach, a grappling coach, and a striking coach, each one trying to work you as hard as they would work someone who is only doing their one sport.

4. There is no offseason. I remember Bisping saying that he felt stronger than ever because he was going through an Olympic weight lifting regimen . . . during a fight camp. Other professional athletes get in shape before they meet the coaches for spring training, because skills, strength, and conditioning training are hard on the body when done all at once.

5. A culture has developed in MMA in which people are stupid and train like idiots.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

Wait when did crossfit become an MMA training thing

david carmichael
Oct 28, 2011

Phyzzle posted:

Is there a single most accepted explanation for why there are so many injuries in MMA? There are bound to be more than in boxing, since MMA involves moving the limbs in a wider range and in many more directions than boxing. But there are other popular sports, especially football, that seem to put plenty of stress on the joints. I’ve heard a few different ideas:

1. There actually aren’t more injuries in MMA. You just don’t notice the injuries in other sports because the Superbowl isn’t canceled when Payton Manning sprains his thumb.

2. The injured guy himself is more likely to play through his injury in a team sport. This is partly because of feeling obligated to his teammates, and partly because he can afford a couple of sub-par performances without wrecking his career. A fighter puts the fate of the next year (or two) of his career into a single, rather quick competition that happens once every four months.

3. There are more injuries in MMA, and it’s because the sport is still developing. So, in addition to a gym’s main instructor, you might have a wrestling coach, a grappling coach, and a striking coach, each one trying to work you as hard as they would work someone who is only doing their one sport.

4. There is no offseason. I remember Bisping saying that he felt stronger than ever because he was going through an Olympic weight lifting regimen . . . during a fight camp. Other professional athletes get in shape before they meet the coaches for spring training, because skills, strength, and conditioning training are hard on the body when done all at once.

5. A culture has developed in MMA in which people are stupid and train like idiots.


is there any reason to believe that MMA has a higher rate of injury than another sport, and where did you hear these things, and the answer to why is the outcome of the training different from one sport to the next is: because the training is different.

manyak
Jan 26, 2006
the rate of injury in MMA is similar to other contact sports but people just notice it more because it sucks when someone has to pull out of a fight. And if it is slightly higher or whatever its because its a sport where you punch and kick people and try to break their limbs so accidents happen more than in sports where the goal is to be a really tall guy putting a ball in a hoop

turntabler
Sep 10, 2011

manyak posted:

the rate of injury in MMA is similar to other contact sports but people just notice it more because it sucks when someone has to pull out of a fight. And if it is slightly higher or whatever its because its a sport where you punch and kick people and try to break their limbs so accidents happen more than in sports where the goal is to be a really tall guy putting a ball in a hoop

I really believe it is substantially higher than other contact sports such as kickboxing where guys will fight with a much higher frequency then mma fighters, and you have gyms like Mike's Gym etc where Badr Hari or Gokhan Saki would be actively trying to murder you during sparring.

I have thought about this before as well and have thought of a few possible explanations. Fighters being stupid and fighters training stupidly are high up there, but also I think of a lot of the grappling stuff is probably pretty strenuous on backs and knees, stuff like preventing the takedown, sweeps and getting up off your back quickly. It seems when people get injuried and miss events it's coz of necks, backs and knees most often.

Also I think another aspect of it is mma fighters will train with specialists in particular areas who are most likely better and more conditioned to that particular sport then they are, bringing in high level wrestlers and kickboxer etc to train with. Also maybe not having the same elite level of technique is resulting in injuries when going hard against someone who is really good.

Sorry if this doesn't make the most sense, struggling to type it on my phone.

manyak
Jan 26, 2006

turntabler posted:

I really believe it is substantially higher than other contact sports such as kickboxing where guys will fight with a much higher frequency then mma fighters, and you have gyms like Mike's Gym etc where Badr Hari or Gokhan Saki would be actively trying to murder you during sparring.

I have thought about this before as well and have thought of a few possible explanations. Fighters being stupid and fighters training stupidly are high up there, but also I think of a lot of the grappling stuff is probably pretty strenuous on backs and knees, stuff like preventing the takedown, sweeps and getting up off your back quickly. It seems when people get injuried and miss events it's coz of necks, backs and knees most often.

Also I think another aspect of it is mma fighters will train with specialists in particular areas who are most likely better and more conditioned to that particular sport then they are, bringing in high level wrestlers and kickboxer etc to train with. Also maybe not having the same elite level of technique is resulting in injuries when going hard against someone who is really good.

Sorry if this doesn't make the most sense, struggling to type it on my phone.

I guess i agree with you about a lot of that. But i think part of it is also that UFC has insurance for their fighters and fighters are willing to admit when theyre injured and take time off more than in other sports. In kickboxing lots of dudes just fight injured even in high profile fights. Grappling does introduce a lot of new potential for injury but in the time ive trained ive seen guys get injured pretty similar amounts training for boxing, kickboxing, grappling or MMA fights. maybe a little less for boxing

Malachamavet
Jan 12, 2009

Above the gigantic mouth is an eye as big as a shield that stares at you with pure hate
I seem to remember there was a fighter, either MMA or Boxing, who did something to the effect of directly after winning, he walked to the Casino and bet his entire purse on a roulette game and lost.

Any help on remembering who

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

Malachamavet posted:

I seem to remember there was a fighter, either MMA or Boxing, who did something to the effect of directly after winning, he walked to the Casino and bet his entire purse on a roulette game and lost.

Any help on remembering who

Overeem, after his Strikeforce fight with Buentello.

Pocket Billiards
Aug 29, 2007
.

Mr. Carlisle posted:

Wait when did crossfit become an MMA training thing

It's part of the standard offering for all the MMA schools here, you know the kind with the expensive monthly contracts and lots of young white collar hobbyist students that's mostly just BJJ with a small cage off to one side.

Pocket Billiards fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 5, 2014

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS
someone just said there aren't a lot of injuries in football

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009

The dock really fucks a case or nerfing it.

In football they just tape the dudes foot at 90 degrees and tell him to stop being a pussy.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Dangersim posted:

someone just said there aren't a lot of injuries in football

Seriously, one of the Packers had his career ended last year after a slam bruised his spinal cord. The NFL is way more dangerous than MMA. You have a bunch of 300-pound giants running at each other as fast as possible to slam one another into the ground and receive 5-10 concussion-strength blows to the head every game. It's honestly amazing that any football players survive their season at all.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Bombadilillo posted:

In football they just tape the dudes foot at 90 degrees and tell him to stop being a pussy.

Yeah thats part of it, dudes will play 16 games with a bum shoulder because they just get a needle before the game and don't have issues, fighters can't do that

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Speaking of needle. Howabout that Vitor? Nobody :airquote: saw that coming, right?

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Everyone knew, it was the worst kept secret in the universe.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

I believed in the power of Christ, through Him all things are possible, including gaining massive muscle mass and ever degrading haircut situations at the age of 37 after a lifetime of confirmed steroid abuse.

Now I am drinking by the docks on Sundays, spilling my seed, and realizing the value of abortion to society. who am I to believe any more.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

CommonShore posted:

Speaking of needle. Howabout that Vitor? Nobody :airquote: saw that coming, right?

Why would you bring this up here instead of the UFC thread where people have been talking about it for days :?:

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004

Limb entanglement during takedown wrestling is usually how I injure myself. But I have trouble believing that MMA has a higher injury rate than something like gridiron.

freud mayweather
Jan 29, 2009

i don't think injuries during fights are any more common than in football or boxing, but you don't see nearly as many boxers/football dummies dropping out of fights/games do to injuries during training. there seems to be a ton of guys getting injured while grappling in mma.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

:qq:He expended too much energy and got tired:qq:

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS
That happens all the time in football

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Football has lots of training injuries but I think we can safely say AKA has more training injuries than any sport. Granted Cain and Josh skew the numbers a bit.

Orange Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007

I've noticed notorious eye poker and fight ducker Bones uses elbow/forearm strikes really well and they seem to do a ton of damage when they connect - so my question is if there is a specific reason that striking method isn't used more often by more fighters? Could be that I haven't seen as many fights as many people here so maybe my sample isn't large enough to notice them being thrown more but overall it seems like close quarters elbows aren't used nearly as much as they could be. Does it have to do with Jones' specific fighting style or would guys just rather use punches like uppercuts or go straight submission attempts when in close range instead?

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"

Mr. Carlisle posted:

I've noticed notorious eye poker and fight ducker Bones uses elbow/forearm strikes really well and they seem to do a ton of damage when they connect - so my question is if there is a specific reason that striking method isn't used more often by more fighters? Could be that I haven't seen as many fights as many people here so maybe my sample isn't large enough to notice them being thrown more but overall it seems like close quarters elbows aren't used nearly as much as they could be. Does it have to do with Jones' specific fighting style or would guys just rather use punches like uppercuts or go straight submission attempts when in close range instead?

Jones' arms are really long, which helps in his ability to throw elbows, which have a much shorter range than punches. If everyone else had the wingspan of a pteradactyl, we might see more elbows like that

Dave Grool
Oct 21, 2008



Grimey Drawer
poo poo like that is hard to train cause it cuts up your training partners

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
This is also the reason why his GNP elbows are so effective and why it was funny as poo poo when he was wondering why the guys he coached on TUF weren't doing that more.

dokmo
Aug 27, 2006

:stat:man

freud mayweather posted:

i don't think injuries during fights are any more common than in football or boxing, but you don't see nearly as many boxers/football dummies dropping out of fights/games do to injuries during training. there seems to be a ton of guys getting injured while grappling in mma.

I can tell you as a point of comparison, the median basketball player misses 10% of the season with injuries. I think hockey is similar. Does the average fighter have to back out or reshedule 1/10th of his fights? That seems like it might be in the ballpark.

manyak
Jan 26, 2006

Mr. Carlisle posted:

I've noticed notorious eye poker and fight ducker Bones uses elbow/forearm strikes really well and they seem to do a ton of damage when they connect - so my question is if there is a specific reason that striking method isn't used more often by more fighters? Could be that I haven't seen as many fights as many people here so maybe my sample isn't large enough to notice them being thrown more but overall it seems like close quarters elbows aren't used nearly as much as they could be. Does it have to do with Jones' specific fighting style or would guys just rather use punches like uppercuts or go straight submission attempts when in close range instead?

The distance between jones' shoulder and elbow is longer than everyone elses arms

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005
Urijah Faber is terrific at elbows, and he has stubby-rear end arms. Jones' reach helps a bit, as it does for any kind of strike, but I think it's more simply that they're difficult to train so it's unusual for people to be skilled and comfortable with throwing them. Jones is one of those guys that can pull off weird poo poo in the cage even if he doesn't do it as much in training.

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LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"
Nick Denis still has my favorite elbow-related destruction.

And then he hurt his head and decided fighting was dumb, time to go back and earn that PhD, making him the only genius to have ever fought.

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