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Apparently there are already Iranian troops in Iraq http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/iraq/article4116273.ece I say we arm both sides and see who comes out on top. It's always worked for us in the past, only this time we should be giving them neutron bombs.
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Jun 12, 2014 14:50
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:Apparently there are already Iranian troops in Iraq http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/iraq/article4116273.ece Considering all of the military aid that we give Iraq and the weapons that we're dumping into Syria, we kind of already are arming both sides.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:11
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Then we should be sending inspectors to make sure there ARE weapons of mass destruction.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:12
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I just hope this doesn't turn into a wider regional war.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:14
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I wonder what's going to happen when they lose control of ABOT and KAAOT. Almost all of Iraq's entire economy is based on the oil pumped out of those.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:15
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Who lives longer, al-Maliki or Karzai?
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Jun 12, 2014 15:30
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go3 posted:Who lives longer, al-Maliki or Karzai? Depends on whether Karzai plans to stay in country after the new president takes over. If he bolts to the UAE or Europe at his first chance he may live a long life funded by the graft of the last decade.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:33
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:Apparently there are already Iranian troops in Iraq http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/iraq/article4116273.ece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmRAiUPdRjk
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Jun 12, 2014 15:39
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Flikken posted:I just hope this doesn't turn into a wider regional war. This is the pinnacle of Poe's Law.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:51
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go3 posted:Who lives longer, al-Maliki or Karzai? They might surprise you. I didn't expect Musharaff to last a week once he went back to Pakistan, but he's alive and making moves last I heard.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:55
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Flikken posted:I just hope this doesn't turn into a wider regional war. Why not? It could do with a spring clean.
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Jun 12, 2014 15:56
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WHO RUN BAGH-DAD?
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Jun 12, 2014 16:07
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It's time for Kurdistan to finally exist, but most likely a third power will come into play. Hopefully China, but most likely Iran or Turkey or Saudi Arabia or someone gay
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Jun 12, 2014 16:37
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Perhaps we should arm ISIS so Iraq can can be Iran's Iraq 
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Jun 12, 2014 16:59
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Casimir Radon posted:Perhaps we should arm ISIS so Iraq can can be Iran's Vietnam FTFY And I guess that would make us the French post Dien-Bien Phu.
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Jun 12, 2014 17:05
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If Iraq wants us to launch air strikes so badly, can we earnestly take them up on their offer and just glass that whole country?
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Jun 12, 2014 17:18
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LimburgLimbo posted:Uh, the Japanese had like 250+ years without any major wars before they were made to open to the west at gunpoint by the Americans. The point of almost every shogunate period Japanese media is how the lack of conflict was transforming the warrior class into largely glorified clerks. By basically keeping the entire country locked into like the 14th century for nearly 4 hundred goddamn years so they could maintain their power base 
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Jun 12, 2014 17:32
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If history teaches me one thing it's that the Kurds are going to get screwed somehow.
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Jun 12, 2014 20:23
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Smiling Jack posted:If history teaches me one thing it's that the Kurds are going to get screwed somehow. Especially if turkey has anything to say about it
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Jun 12, 2014 20:25
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"Lovers of schadenfreude rejoiced today as the WMDs purported to be in Iraq at the end of the Hussein regime were actually stored in areas now belonging to the new nation of Kurdistan. Thousands are feared dead in Baghdad while Kurds everywhere were heard to chant the Takbir and 'How do you like us now?!'" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_wEs9x7G3w
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Jun 12, 2014 20:34
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Smiling Jack posted:If history teaches me one thing it's that the Kurds are going to get screwed somehow. Probably. But hey, the jews managed to make a comeback after a few millenia of bad luck. So it's not entirely unprecedented.
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Jun 12, 2014 21:07
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Godholio posted:No we didn't, we went in to topple Saddam. That's as far as our plan went. We didn't even move to secure the borders for months. Reconstruction contractors and supplies should have been right behind the ships carrying tanks and MREs. But...nope. I am well aware of how things went down- I should have been more clear. That was the intent on how to "fix" Iraq- topple Saddam then everything will be better. Too bad the war was run by mouth breathing retards.
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Jun 12, 2014 22:13
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bulletsponge13 posted:I am well aware of how things went down- I should have been more clear. That was the intent on how to "fix" Iraq- topple Saddam then everything will be better. Too bad the war was run by mouth breathing retards. Cobra II is amazing on the planning for the war. Rumsfeld actually was pushing for just making an enclave near Kuwait, training those who showed up yearning for freedom, and then let freedom take its course. He had to be talked into invading the rest of the country. And he wasn't pushing for that from a risk limitation standpoint, just cost. It was idiots and ideologues top to bottom, even including Rumsfeld, a man described by Kissenger as one of the most ruthless he had ever met. Starry eyed and full of wonder, believing deep in the hearts of all men is an American. Though still penny pinching to the end. Remember pre-war, how when challenged on the cause for war they would get defensive, but when challenged on it being over estimated cost Rumsfeld and Cheney and the rest would melt down. An incredible time.
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Jun 12, 2014 22:24
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bulletsponge13 posted:I am well aware of how things went down- I should have been more clear. That was the intent on how to "fix" Iraq- topple Saddam then everything will be better. Too bad the war was run by mouth breathing retards. I remember a documentary which interviewed a bunch of people involved in reconstruction talking about how when they showed up shortly before the war began, there were no plans of any sort anywhere, they were understaffed, underfunded and their offices were short on even desks, telephones and chairs.
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Jun 12, 2014 22:29
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Best Friends posted:Remember pre-war, how when challenged on the cause for war they would get defensive, but when challenged on it being over estimated cost Rumsfeld and Cheney and the rest would melt down. An incredible time. I remember the fuckers saying that the whole war could be paid for with Iraq's oil revenues and that the entire enterprise would only cost us $10 Billion or so. I was young and drunk at the time, but even I was surprised by them pimping such a bullshit story on national TV.
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Jun 12, 2014 22:36
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Best Friends posted:Cobra II is amazing on the planning for the war. Rumsfeld actually was pushing for just making an enclave near Kuwait, training those who showed up yearning for freedom, and then let freedom take its course. He had to be talked into invading the rest of the country. And he wasn't pushing for that from a risk limitation standpoint, just cost. It was idiots and ideologues top to bottom, even including Rumsfeld, a man described by Kissenger as one of the most ruthless he had ever met. Starry eyed and full of wonder, believing deep in the hearts of all men is an American. Though still penny pinching to the end. link to this thing please.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:19
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Smiling Jack posted:If history teaches me one thing it's that the Kurds are going to get screwed somehow. Dunno about that, the Kurds have been doing pretty well for themselves lately. The KRG is a pretty stable place (not just compared to Iraq in general) and even Turkey seems to be leaving them mostly alone. Also, unlike the Iraqi Army, the Peshmerga are one of the very few forces in that country who are somewhat professional, ideologically motivated, and won't abruptly drop their weapons at the first sign of trouble. If ISIS tries to push north, they're in for a bigger fight than the IA can throw at them. I'd also expect the Kurds to make a few plays in Arbil and Sulaymaniyah, but I don't think they'll really make a huge grab and piss off what's left of the Iraqi government or Turkey.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:20
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 http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/01/f...r#ixzz34RXVmFIh (Sorry if Duffelblog isn't allowed in the current events thread.)
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Jun 13, 2014 00:47
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tuluk posted:link to this thing please. http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-II-Inside-Invasion-Occupation/dp/1400075394/ Here is a 2004 NRO (lol) article about the plan http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/210487/rumsfelds-war-powells-occupation/barbara-lerner quote:Rumsfeld’s plan was to train and equip–and then transport to Iraq–some 10,000 Shia and Sunni freedom fighters led by Shia exile leader Ahmed Chalabi and his cohorts in the INC, the multi-ethnic anti-Saddam coalition he created. There, they would have joined with thousands of experienced Kurdish freedom fighters, ably led, politically and militarily, by Jalal Talabani and Massoud Barzani. Working with our special forces, this trio would have sprung into action at the start of the war, striking from the north, helping to drive Baathist thugs from power, and joining Coalition forces in the liberation of Baghdad. That would have put a proud, victorious, multi-ethnic Iraqi face on the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and it would have given enormous prestige to three stubbornly independent and unashamedly pro-American Iraqi freedom fighters: Chalabi, Talabani, and Barzani. Naturally NRO thought that plan would have been a great idea if not for the fifth columnists and liberals who brought a great man down. This was the first google result for Rumsfeld Plan 10000 and as a bonus it's a great insight into the mindset of Bush era republicanism, which cannot fail, only be failed, no matter how stupid the idea.
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Jun 13, 2014 01:24
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Flikken posted:I just hope this doesn't turn into a wider regional war. Dude what the gently caress do you think is going on over there friend of the family DEATH TURBO posted:this is dumb ur dumb Maliki didn't really get uppity with the SOFA until we more or less faked the 2010 elections to keep our 'partner' in power. That was pretty much his carte blanche to turn on the Sunni as well, with predictable results. Before that the place was in a lot better shape, at least according to this far right wacko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLteUGkvpOc Maliki's an obvious shmuck and you can blame Bush for chucking him into the hot seat but for gently caress sake by 2010 surely we could've found someone better
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Jun 13, 2014 01:36
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...411f_story.htmlquote:Iraqi media and a source close to Maliki’s office in Baghdad said that Obama had already agreed to “imminent” U.S. airstrikes, to be launched from a base in Turkey. The senior official described those reports as “premature” but said a decision could come “today, tomorrow, in the coming days.”
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Jun 13, 2014 01:55
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I see where this is going: 1991: Iraq Airstrikes 2003: Iraq Airstrikes 2025: Iraq Airstrikes 2057: Iraq
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Jun 13, 2014 02:06
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Mr. Nice! posted:I wonder what's going to happen when they lose control of ABOT and KAAOT. Almost all of Iraq's entire economy is based on the oil pumped out of those. Given where these are located (and the fact that Maliki's govt is basically an arm of the Iranian govt at this point), they would be pretty much the last bits of Iraq to fall to folks like ISIS. Snowdens Secret posted:Dude what the gently caress do you think is going on over there lol From that article: quote:“The element of shock came in how quickly the Iraqi security forces seem to have folded,” said a senior Western diplomat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment publicly. “We were surprised by the minimal appetite to stand and fight, given that Iraqi forces are about a million strong and are well-equipped and trained by the United States, Britain” and others. 
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Jun 13, 2014 02:35
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Snowdens Secret posted:Maliki's an obvious shmuck and you can blame Bush for chucking him into the hot seat but for gently caress sake by 2010 surely we could've found someone better This seems to be a pattern. From Syngman Rhee to Karzai, why is it we can't find a guy to nation-build with that the nation in question actually likes?
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Jun 13, 2014 02:43
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MRC48B posted:This seems to be a pattern. From Syngman Rhee to Karzai, why is it we can't find a guy to nation-build with that the nation in question actually likes? I thought ROK strongmen were light years better then Karzai and Malaki, I mean Park was, and even Rhee.
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Jun 13, 2014 02:47
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MRC48B posted:This seems to be a pattern. From Syngman Rhee to Karzai, why is it we can't find a guy to nation-build with that the nation in question actually likes? I'd prefer we find one over here first.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:05
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Yeah ROK strongmen were pretty competent as far as strongmen dictators go. Assholes who thought nothing of rigging elections and slaughtering their own citizens, but goddamn if they didn't know how to run a country and develop an economy.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:05
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IDK about that last part. It took until the 1980s for South Korea to unfuck itself. EDIT: Economically, that is.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:07
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MRC48B posted:IDK about that last part. It took until the 1980s for South Korea to unfuck itself. The economy really took off in the '80s but it's not like that happened by magic, the groundwork was laid by what Park did in the '60s and '70s. e: this is one of the funniest things duffelblog has done recently.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:12
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This puts the Iraq stuff fairly well: http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/beginning-end-iraq I'm just going to quote it: quote:God only knows what happens next, but this much is clear—the Syrian war is no longer the Syrian war. It’s a regional war. It spilled into Lebanon at a low level some time ago. It sucked in Iran and Hezbollah some time ago. Now it is spreading with full force at blitzkrieg speed into Iraq and has even drawn in the Kurdistan Regional Government which managed to sit out the entire Iraq war.
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Jun 13, 2014 04:16
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