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InediblePenguin
Sep 27, 2004

I'm strong. And a giant penguin. Please don't eat me. No, really. Don't try.

AlphaDog posted:

It means "a fool", but I guess it's used about the same way as "gay baby" is on the internet, so...

similarly when Stephen calls someone a "creature" you can basically translate that as "lol scrub"

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Blog Free or Die
Apr 30, 2005

FOR THE MOTHERLAND

InediblePenguin posted:

similarly when Stephen calls someone a "creature" you can basically translate that as "lol scrub"

Except then he literally calls someone a scrub, so that gets confusing.

What a fellow you are.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Blog Free or Die posted:

Except then he literally calls someone a scrub, so that gets confusing.

What a fellow you are.

Maturin burns, second best burns.

Behind him just straight stabbing fools.

"Will you stand for that?"

"*drunk*"

"*stab*"

Edit: maybe third best behind him making fun of jack for being fat.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

builds character posted:

Edit: maybe third best behind him making fun of jack for being fat.

Nonsense, the captain has an uncommon genteel figure.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

ItalicSquirrels posted:

Nonsense, the captain has an uncommon genteel figure.

Goldilocks. :allears:


My favorite part of that whole exchange is that he's not even (relatively) fat yet. It just gets worse over the years (when he has money anyway).

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

builds character posted:

Goldilocks. :allears:


My favorite part of that whole exchange is that he's not even (relatively) fat yet. It just gets worse over the years (when he has money anyway).

I've started to think that Aubrey is just stocky. At his worst he's 16 stone (I think). That's just 224 pounds. Aubrey's 6-ish feet tall and described as muscular, or at least very strong. In one scene he uses one arm to pull Maturin's 9 stone (126 pounds) up through the lubber's hole. That takes muscle. I think Aubrey just has a touch of a beer belly and Maturin likes to give him poo poo about it. Like if I nicknamed a 5'5" guy "Tiny".

ZekeNY
Jun 13, 2013

Probably AFK

ItalicSquirrels posted:

Nonsense, the captain has an uncommon genteel figure.

"You are an obese subject; your hams quiver as you go. You must weigh sixteen or even seventeen stone."

BeigeJacket
Jul 21, 2005

One of my favorite lines in the whole thing is Jacks riposte after Maturin is lecturing him on how his dissolute habits have caused the appearance of his first grey hairs.

"My hair is not grey. It is a pleasing shade of buttercup"

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Here's a dude who's 6'2" and exactly 224 lbs (16 stone) in the pic (it's Mirko Filipović, MMA fighter).



Yeah, Jack's not going to be as fit as that, but you can tell he's carrying a bit of muscle from the way he races up the rigging, hauls Stephen around with one hand, etc.

I don't think Jack's fat the way we'd use it today, but he's definitely bigger than a lot of other people (and way way bigger than Stephen). Stephen's just mocking him in that exaggerated, friendly way.

e: Stephen is 9 stone, which is 126lbs or 57kg. That's the bottom end of bantamweight to Jack's Heavyweight. They are amazingly mismatched in size, and I'm going to have to re-imagine them.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 19, 2014

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
I think it's important to remember that the rampant obesity we see today would have been unheard of in those days. When 70% or so of people are overweight it skews our perception of what is and isn't fat.

By the standards of that period Jack very probably was fat.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

The Lord Bude posted:

I think it's important to remember that the rampant obesity we see today would have been unheard of in those days. When 70% or so of people are overweight it skews our perception of what is and isn't fat.

By the standards of that period Jack very probably was fat.

It's a bit more complicated. It was uncommon for poor people (as they often had hardly enough to eat in the first place to even replace the energy spent working), but it wasn't uncommon for the Upper Middle Class and the Upper Class, especially when getting older. Sports for health reasons were not seen very gentlemanlike (and don't even think about women doing it) while they consumed large amounts of food and alcohol and had others doing any manual labour for them. Getting fat in your middle years was a relatively common sight. Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Decius posted:

Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen.

They are very polite about they way they say it, and many portraits go to great lengths to hide it, but Kings George IV and William IV (Duke of Clarence in the books) were quite large as were many of the wealthy of the time. I seem to recall an anecdote about one of them being so large that they couldn't get the extra-large coffin closed.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Decius posted:

It's a bit more complicated. It was uncommon for poor people (as they often had hardly enough to eat in the first place to even replace the energy spent working), but it wasn't uncommon for the Upper Middle Class and the Upper Class, especially when getting older. Sports for health reasons were not seen very gentlemanlike (and don't even think about women doing it) while they consumed large amounts of food and alcohol and had others doing any manual labour for them. Getting fat in your middle years was a relatively common sight. Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen.

still, 20kg overweight sounds about right for Jack. In modern America or Australia 20kg would be unremarkable. It would be 'hey that guy's kinda fat.' I'd probably have to lose 30kg to be 20kg overweight, and I'm not even close to being one of those guys who draws peoples eyes, and can barely walk, and needs to wear a smock.

Austen Tassletine
Nov 5, 2010
Further on the wonderful bickering/trolling between the pair, could anyone possible identify a scene for me? I can't remember the context of the discussion or the exact wording, but Jack was talking to Stephen about somebody when the latter interrupted him with a completely undeserved bit of sarcasm.

"and this person had a father-"
"Good heavens! Although on reflection I seem to recall others with a similar affliction"

This popped into my head earlier during a conversation and brought a smile, and now I really want to look it up.

thekeeshman
Feb 21, 2007

Austen Tassletine posted:

Further on the wonderful bickering/trolling between the pair, could anyone possible identify a scene for me? I can't remember the context of the discussion or the exact wording, but Jack was talking to Stephen about somebody when the latter interrupted him with a completely undeserved bit of sarcasm.

"and this person had a father-"
"Good heavens! Although on reflection I seem to recall others with a similar affliction"

This popped into my head earlier during a conversation and brought a smile, and now I really want to look it up.

They were talking about Bach and his son, the context was Jack had bought some of his scores, and I'm pretty sure it was one of the earlier books.

Molybdenum
Jun 25, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C
"Do you know the expression rogering, Jack?"

"I believe I have heard it"

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



The Lord Bude posted:

still, 20kg overweight sounds about right for Jack. In modern America or Australia 20kg would be unremarkable. It would be 'hey that guy's kinda fat.' I'd probably have to lose 30kg to be 20kg overweight, and I'm not even close to being one of those guys who draws peoples eyes, and can barely walk, and needs to wear a smock.

If we assume Jack's 6'2", at 17 stone he weighs 108kg, which is 20kg above the highest "normal" weight by BMI. Someone who never does anything physical will look like a fatty at that point, but Jack isn't sedentary.

Given that 6' was seen as pretty drat tall at the time, it's not at all surprising that someone over 6' tall who weighs 17 stone is perceived as a huge dude. He's the sort of guy who'd look like a wrestler if only he'd stop eating huge fatty meals and drinking shitloads of booze every day.

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot

Decius posted:

It's a bit more complicated. It was uncommon for poor people (as they often had hardly enough to eat in the first place to even replace the energy spent working), but it wasn't uncommon for the Upper Middle Class and the Upper Class, especially when getting older. Sports for health reasons were not seen very gentlemanlike (and don't even think about women doing it) while they consumed large amounts of food and alcohol and had others doing any manual labour for them. Getting fat in your middle years was a relatively common sight. Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen.
Jack began at the age of what, 23 or 25ish? He's very consistenly referred to as fat, pudgy, portly, well-fed, and the like. In the later books it's one thing to argue however, he sounded like a great golden curly-topped egg of a man of who also happens to be a bloodthirsty badass whenever you give him even the whiff of a chance at booty.

Murgos posted:

They are very polite about they way they say it, and many portraits go to great lengths to hide it, but Kings George IV and William IV (Duke of Clarence in the books) were quite large as were many of the wealthy of the time. I seem to recall an anecdote about one of them being so large that they couldn't get the extra-large coffin closed.

these were also men who were kings. As in "I can have your entire family burned alive if you don't get me some loving lemoncakes in 10 minutes flat!"

One thing I appreciated about the very early books was how Jack sort of had to be reminded to keep up appearances, so instead of staying in his cabin working on his rutters or whatever, he was expected to wine and dine the officers of his crew from his own person stashes - whether or not he had them.

coyo7e fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jun 21, 2014

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

coyo7e posted:

Jack began at the age of what, 23 or 25ish? He's very consistenly referred to as fat, pudgy, portly, well-fed, and the like. In the later books it's one thing to argue however, he sounded like a great golden curly-topped egg of a man of who also happens to be a bloodthirsty badass whenever you give him even the whiff of a chance at booty.


these were also men who were kings. As in "I can have your entire family burned alive if you don't get me some loving lemoncakes in 10 minutes flat!"

One thing I appreciated about the very early books was how Jack sort of had to be reminded to keep up appearances, so instead of staying in his cabin working on his rutters or whatever, he was expected to wine and dine the officers of his crew from his own person stashes - whether or not he had them.

The thing that's funny about jack's weight is Stephen cracking on him because he gets a little chubby when he has cash, but yeah he's a big hard dude who smashes everyone in his way with a sword and doesn't have an issue climbing the rigging until he gets older and more consistently wealthy.

InediblePenguin
Sep 27, 2004

I'm strong. And a giant penguin. Please don't eat me. No, really. Don't try.

coyo7e posted:

these were also men who were kings. As in "I can have your entire family burned alive if you don't get me some loving lemoncakes in 10 minutes flat!"
not by the early 19th century no

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

InediblePenguin posted:

not by the early 19th century no


You have disgraced yourself, and you must be punished. Confine yourself to our royal suite at the Waldorf-Astoria.

High Warlord Zog
Dec 12, 2012
Has anyone written Napoleonic era sailing or, for that matter, land based adventures from the perspective of the French?

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

High Warlord Zog posted:

Has anyone written Napoleonic era sailing or, for that matter, land based adventures from the perspective of the French?

The sailing aspect I feel wouldn't be terribly exciting, given what happened to French navy.

There's a Sharpe novel where Richard Sharpe meets his French equivalent (and a French version of Harper) that I was hoping would spawn a parallel series, but it hasn't.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

Colonial Air Force posted:

The sailing aspect I feel wouldn't be terribly exciting, given what happened to French navy.

"Log of Captain Henri: June 18, 1809; Day 585 in port. Exercised hands by sending them up and down the rigging. Winds perfect for escape from blockade, but full moon and presence of British squadron makes survival unlikely. May try in two weeks if winds remain favorable and Indomptable is finally able to receive masts.

June 19, 1809; Day 586 in port. Convoy carrying masts for Indomptable intercepted by British squadron, may try escape in two weeks if Robustesse able to get guns in. People employed variously about the ship. Ditto weather.

June 20, 1809; Day 587 in port. Robustesse had guns taken away for use by Army. Will try to escape blockade at dark of moon on own if six months provisions can be gotten on board."

Blog Free or Die
Apr 30, 2005

FOR THE MOTHERLAND

thekeeshman posted:

They were talking about Bach and his son, the context was Jack had bought some of his scores, and I'm pretty sure it was one of the earlier books.

It's The Ionian Mission. Jack's Uncle apparently kept some Bach scores in his pantry. Jack's exchange with Stephen is pretty great:

quote:

'But the whole point is this: Bach had a father.'
'Heavens, Jack, what things you tell me. Yet upon recollection I seem to have known other men in much the same case.'
'And this father, this old Bach, you understand me, had written piles and piles of musical scores in the pantry.'
'A whimsical place to compose in, perhaps; but then birds sing in trees, do they not? Why not antediluvian Germans in a pantry?'

Jack goes on to mention that in the piles of scores was a 'vast great Passion according to St Mark, in High Dutch' but that it was destroyed by mice, beetles, and maids.

Two Passions written by J.S. Bach survive, the St. Matthew and the St. John. They're monumental works, comparable in length and scope to opera. They're also regarded as some of the best pieces Bach ever wrote, which is saying something.

It's known that he wrote a St. Mark Passion, but it is lost to history. And, apparently, mice and beetles.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010

ItalicSquirrels posted:

"Log of Captain Henri: June 18, 1809; Day 585 in port. Exercised hands by sending them up and down the rigging. Winds perfect for escape from blockade, but full moon and presence of British squadron makes survival unlikely. May try in two weeks if winds remain favorable and Indomptable is finally able to receive masts.

June 19, 1809; Day 586 in port. Convoy carrying masts for Indomptable intercepted by British squadron, may try escape in two weeks if Robustesse able to get guns in. People employed variously about the ship. Ditto weather.

June 20, 1809; Day 587 in port. Robustesse had guns taken away for use by Army. Will try to escape blockade at dark of moon on own if six months provisions can be gotten on board."

Didn't the French navy do okay in the early years of the war? It could read like a tragedy, after all.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

Octy posted:

Didn't the French navy do okay in the early years of the war? It could read like a tragedy, after all.

Not particularly.

I mean it's the British Navy, they don't sing about ruling the waves for no reason.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

ItalicSquirrels posted:

"Log of Captain Henri: June 18, 1809; Day 585 in port. Exercised hands by sending them up and down the rigging. Winds perfect for escape from blockade, but full moon and presence of British squadron makes survival unlikely. May try in two weeks if winds remain favorable and Indomptable is finally able to receive masts.

June 19, 1809; Day 586 in port. Convoy carrying masts for Indomptable intercepted by British squadron, may try escape in two weeks if Robustesse able to get guns in. People employed variously about the ship. Ditto weather.

June 20, 1809; Day 587 in port. Robustesse had guns taken away for use by Army. Will try to escape blockade at dark of moon on own if six months provisions can be gotten on board."

But think of the amount of claret.

And a frigate captain or a privateer novel would work.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
If it were to be a privateer or frigate captain, the US would be better, especially with all the various wars we were involved in at sea (Tunisia, War of 1812, &c.).

But I also love Old Ironsides so I may be biased.

E: Although that might be harder to fictionalize since the fleet was so small. I suppose it could be a sailor rather than officer as protagonist.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?

Colonial Air Force posted:

If it were to be a privateer or frigate captain, the US would be better, especially with all the various wars we were involved in at sea (Tunisia, War of 1812, &c.).

But I also love Old Ironsides so I may be biased.

E: Although that might be harder to fictionalize since the fleet was so small. I suppose it could be a sailor rather than officer as protagonist.

You could always do what Bernard Cornwell did with the Battle of Trafalgar and just invent an entirely new ship. Hooray, the infant USN now has seven frigates instead of six! We've already got the Chesapeake, Constitution, Congress, United States, President, and Constellation, what's wrong with adding, say, the Senator or the Glory?

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
I thought that ship was a privateer? I'd have to go re-read it though, it's been a while.

bollig
Apr 7, 2006

Never Forget.
Oh man, I'm vacationing with my father, who decided that he was going to reread the Aubrey-Maturin series, he left Master and Commander lying around and I just finished it up. What a book! I'm itching to finish the series, but I really don't like to just burn through a series. One of my rules has been 1 book per author per year. If I do that, though, I'll be in my fifties before I finish the series. Maybe one every six months?

Also I've had one of my favorite songs going through my head the entire time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czoG3W6TokA

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
Just think of the whole series as one very long book.

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Just think of the whole series as one very long book.

Plus, it's a nice series to re-read.

bollig
Apr 7, 2006

Never Forget.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Just think of the whole series as one very long book.

Haha. We'll see. I was also fortunate in that I got to go to a museum that had tons of model boats while I was in the middle of it. Didn't have a brig sloop, but they had a ship-rigged sloop. Earlier someone posted a book about all the meals that were served in that book and I'm probably going to get it for him for Christmas.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



bollig posted:

Haha. We'll see. I was also fortunate in that I got to go to a museum that had tons of model boats while I was in the middle of it. Didn't have a brig sloop, but they had a ship-rigged sloop. Earlier someone posted a book about all the meals that were served in that book and I'm probably going to get it for him for Christmas.

The cookbook is pretty great. I haven't actually tried any of the recipes yet, but it's entertaining.

Molybdenum
Jun 25, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C
I've made ship's biscuit from it. They exploded in mold after about a week, no weevils though.

They were a bitch to eat. I ended up putting them in a bowl and then pouring soup or stew over them. By the time I got to the bottom of the bowl they were kinda soft enough to eat.

Also I learned how to play drops of brandy on my piano.

The negus recipe is good. It is like ye olde tymee gatorade.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
If they got moldy, they weren't done correctly. I had one I git in October that I ate the following May.

ItalicSquirrels
Feb 15, 2007

What?
On the recipe book:

*The grape leaves are a pain to make but are goddamned delicious. Use beef suet instead of lamb, though, so you don't bust your bank.
*Raspberry shrub is the most requested drink I've ever made and I brew my own beer and mead. Let it stand for six months and watch your friends demand more.
*Lemonade heightened with Marsala - Good, better when it's been bottled for a week.
*Arrack Punch - Haven't been able to find proper arrack, made it with arack (grain liquor made with aniseed). To say it smelled like licorice would be like saying the ocean is damp. Clears the sinuses a treat, though, and is good for a winter party.
*Lemon shrub - Excellent mixed with 2 parts hot water.
*Grog - Meh. A fine experience, but not a drink you'd pass around.
*Roast chicken - Also delicious. Use a mechanical spit on your grill if you can and remember to actually sew the stuffing in, not just tie the legs together and think that will do it.

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Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK
Cybernetic Crumb

ItalicSquirrels posted:

*Roast chicken - Also delicious. Use a mechanical spit on your grill if you can and remember to actually sew the stuffing in in a seaman-like manner, not just tie the legs together and think that will do it.
Fixed that for you :colbert:

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