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No Wave posted:An expectation that people like it when you act like a pathetic sadsack wuss? Yeah, except Louie wasn't acting then. His "act" was when he was groping Pamela and getting rough and assertive with her because he thought that was what she wanted, and that it was the only way to move forward in their relationship. And then there's this: quote:Didn't really understand the weird gender reversal that Louie has in Pamela part 3, when he acts like a huge loser again instead of coolguy. So, the first thing... am I reading this correctly? You think that men are all supposed to be Pamelas and all women should be Louies? You think men are all emotionally repressed, and assertive, and need to take charge all the time, and women are all overemotional, "pathetic" (your words) and weak? Second thing, when was Louie a cool guy? When he was groping and tearing at Pamela's clothes in the first part? Because it sounds like that's what you were getting at. You seemed to like Part 1 a lot more than the other parts. edit: Also yeah, all shows should just completely be Dudebros picking up women by being Coolguys, none of that messy, "ugly" human emotion poo poo. I mean... yuck!
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Jun 20, 2014 18:37
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No Wave you must really hate Gaspar Noe movies
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Jun 20, 2014 18:40
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Honore_De_Balzac posted:glad I'm not the only one. If this is really your opinion NoWave you might be the first person to make my ignore list. King Vidiot posted:So, the first thing... am I reading this correctly? You think that men are all supposed to be Pamelas and all women should be Louies? You think men are all emotionally repressed, and assertive, and need to take charge all the time, and women are all overemotional, "pathetic" (your words) and weak? But the whole "no, I'm fat", "no, you're fine, blah blah" is an interaction where stereotypically the genders are reversed, and I'm assuming that this informs the scene. Not to mention that Pamela entices Louie with a sexy bathtub with candles and poo poo, which is usually a very typical way of representing a guy trying to do something romantic for a girl. I guess my recognition of that could make you call me a sexist or something. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 18:42
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No Wave posted:go 4 it Naw, seems like it would mess with the flow of threads when someone undoubtedly has to respond to your idiocy. Plus you are good for a laugh.
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Jun 20, 2014 19:06
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Did anyone else just find out that Pamela Adlon is Bobby Hill?
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Jun 20, 2014 19:06
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Bown posted:No Wave you must really hate Gaspar Noe movies Ahahahaha.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:04
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I disagree with No Wave on pretty much everything but I hated Gaspar Noe's Irreversible. I wouldn't say that it was a "waste of film" though, just that it depicted ugliness and negativity so well that it made me ill and I wish I hadn't seen it. Maybe it wasn't that I hated it inasmuch as I hated the experience of watching it.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:18
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No Wave posted:Not to mention that Pamela entices Louie with a sexy bathtub with candles and poo poo, which is usually a very typical way of representing a guy trying to do something romantic for a girl. I guess my recognition of that could make you call me a sexist or something.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:34
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Illinois Smith posted:Wait, did you somehow miss that this was a callback to the last time they were close to hooking up two seasons ago? Even though Pamela looked straight at the camera and said HEY REMEMBER BATHS?
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Jun 20, 2014 20:58
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pretty sure that was just a very funny fat joke
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Jun 21, 2014 00:33
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I'd be pissed if a girlfriend got rid of all my old ugly poo poo without asking me first. I love my old ugly poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:38
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fletcher posted:I'd be pissed if a girlfriend got rid of all my old ugly poo poo without asking me first. I love my old ugly poo poo. No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 00:57
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No Wave posted:Agreed. You can see how forced it is when Louie makes himself laugh as if it's a cute thing to do. Yeah he shouldn't have written the show like that if he didnt like those things.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:31
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King Vidiot posted:I disagree with No Wave on pretty much everything but I hated Gaspar Noe's Irreversible. I wouldn't say that it was a "waste of film" though, just that it depicted ugliness and negativity so well that it made me ill and I wish I hadn't seen it. I had kind of the same reaction the first time I watched Miike's 'Audition'. I thought about it for several days and realized that that is one of the purposes of art; not to reaffirm things we believe and think and to simply act as an echo chamber, but to present alternate viewpoints and challenge our assumptions. That, imo, is literally one of the core missions of art. Art shouldn't, or at least shouldn't always, be safe and comforting. It should feel a little dangerous, a little reckless, it should present the world in a way I might not have otherwise considered. Looking at Audition and Irreversible in that light, I think they're both great movies.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:40
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Audition is a brilliant horror film because of how much of a study in restraint it is. Very, very little of the runtime of the film is devoted to actually showing violence/horror. It's pretty much the polar opposite of another film of his, Visitor Q, which is pretty much a nonstop parade of  
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Jun 21, 2014 05:04
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regulargonzalez posted:I had kind of the same reaction the first time I watched Miike's 'Audition'. I thought about it for several days and realized that that is one of the purposes of art; not to reaffirm things we believe and think and to simply act as an echo chamber, but to present alternate viewpoints and challenge our assumptions. That, imo, is literally one of the core missions of art. Art shouldn't, or at least shouldn't always, be safe and comforting. It should feel a little dangerous, a little reckless, it should present the world in a way I might not have otherwise considered.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:07
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Art can make you laugh! ...It should make you laugh. It should make you cry and think and laugh and sweat. As above, art has only failed if you look at it and turn away and don't give a poo poo.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:26
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Art can make you horny as well.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:29
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I'd rather it present perspectives that someone actually believes and not idiot dummy figures whose mistakes are obvious and we totally know better from the get-go. It's the difference between the scene where Louie doesn't know what to do when Blueberries woman starts crying and when he basically tries to rape Pamela. There's an obvious "right" answer known to everyone in the second situation, whereas the first actually represents reality as it's confusing to navigate.
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Jun 21, 2014 07:04
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So these two scenes, whereof one is a good scene and the other is poo poo, but they're similar as hell, sorry idgi
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Jun 21, 2014 08:53
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No Wave posted:I'd rather it present perspectives that someone actually believes and not idiot dummy figures whose mistakes are obvious and we totally know better from the get-go. It's the difference between the scene where Louie doesn't know what to do when Blueberries woman starts crying and when he basically tries to rape Pamela. There's an obvious "right" answer known to everyone in the second situation, whereas the first actually represents reality as it's confusing to navigate. 19th century theater consigned to the "bad art" pile
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Jun 21, 2014 09:02
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All sexual assaults in movies are a waste of film because nobody actually thinks acting that way is ok!.....wait a minute this sounds wrong/dumb as hell
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Jun 21, 2014 09:10
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I really enjoyed this season of Louie. In my opinion the first few episodes were miles better than the last few though...I quite enjoyed the sequence with the Hungarian lady, but the last bit with Pamela was neither funny nor great in any other fashion just IMO.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:15
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Louie's interest in a meteor shower was good to see, if completely unexpected based on everything else we know about him. But he could become the Neil Degrasse Tyson of stand up comics. "Y'ever notice stars, they're such assholes. Think about it. Always looking down on us and acting so smug. Oh you humans think you're such hot poo poo, well we were here before your species existed and will still be here long after you've all gone extinct. Oh you sent a rover to Mars to take some pictures? Are we supposed to be impressed? Why don'tcha come visit one of us oh that's right it's because you barely evolved apes can't figure out how. Stars are loving assholes, man. No really I mean it."
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Jun 21, 2014 11:15
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Binary Logic posted:Louie's interest in a meteor shower was good to see, if completely unexpected based on everything else we know about him. But he could become the Neil Degrasse Tyson of stand up comics. I'm suddenly filled with a burning desire to see Louis CK guest-host or guest-direct an episode of Cosmos.
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Jun 21, 2014 12:14
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So, I have kind of a weird pet theory: The art show that Pamela and Louie visit is Louis's brain, or rather, it's a scene that is supposed to represent Pamela getting to know Louie. They go along and things get weirder and weirder. Ultimately getting to the very bottom of his brain, finding all the bodies, and then decide to move on.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:42
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Timeless Appeal posted:So, I have kind of a weird pet theory: The art show that Pamela and Louie visit is Louis's brain, or rather, it's a scene that is supposed to represent Pamela getting to know Louie. They go along and things get weirder and weirder. Ultimately getting to the very bottom of his brain, finding all the bodies, and then decide to move on. And in the end all he wants to do is eat.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:27
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Frostwerks posted:And in the end all he wants to do is eat. Eating and loving are all any living thing is here for. Thousands of generations of your predecessors ate enough and that is why you are alive. So I agree with Louie here.
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Jun 26, 2014 10:25
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precision posted:Audition is a brilliant horror film because of how much of a study in restraint it is. Very, very little of the runtime of the film is devoted to actually showing violence/horror. It's pretty much the polar opposite of another film of his, Visitor Q, which is pretty much a nonstop parade of I love that the horrible weed of rapechat has blossomed into this beautiful flower. Miike's Visitor Q and Noe's Seul Contre Tous are two of my favourite films ever. I'm guessing that anyone who calls Louie a creepy rapist based on his lame attempts at kissing haven't seen them. Y'all need to get desensitized!
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Jun 26, 2014 11:20
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This article/opinion piece pretty much nailed it for me in regards to *that* scene. http://junkee.com/on-louie-season-four-and-the-so-called-attempted-rape/36895
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Jun 26, 2014 11:26
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Kampfbereit posted:Visitor Q If you haven't seen it you should check out The Happiness of the Katakuris. It has a similar structure and tone despite being a musical set in a rural area.
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Jun 26, 2014 11:29
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bubblelubble posted:This article/opinion piece pretty much nailed it for me in regards to *that* scene. The problem with this argument is that it feeds into an existing depiction of sexual assault in rape culture: that because a man thinks he knows what the woman wants, he can ignore what the woman says. This becomes less an isolated act and more a moralistic message when Louie is not punished, but even rewarded later for his behavior. This suggests yes, the man did know what the woman wanted, and contextualizes his rape scene as acceptable. Louis CK may not have intended to endorse this type of sexual assault, but it's hard to deny his scene feeds into a popular depiction in rape culture. But rather than dismiss Louis CK's intention, I'd like to consider what he actually did mean to say. I think what he was trying to depict (as mentioned by several others here) is that a likable, ordinary character on TV can be just as prone as creepy weirdos to committing sexual assault. That he actually succeeds in winning the girl's heart is testament to Louie shrugging his shoulders and saying, "Sometimes these bastards win." It's not an inherently bad message. But when you highlight one narrative over another ("rapist gets the girl" over "rapist gently caress lives up"), you inevitably send a message too. I suspect in a world where rape culture wasn't so powerful, we could read Louie's scene more as "one of those things that happen". But in the context of many men already thinking the depicted behavior of sexual assault is okay, it's hard to watch Louie without considering its role in normalizing rape culture. Really hope this does not kick up a nest of "Oh this again" remarks. I think Louis CK intended for the scene to generate a constructive dialogue on rape, and I doubt he thinks he should be immune to criticism in that respect.
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Jun 26, 2014 17:48
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Rape culture is messed up! And bad!
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Jun 26, 2014 19:13
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greatn posted:Did anyone else just find out that Pamela Adlon is Bobby Hill? lol thats so cool
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Jun 26, 2014 20:43
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So uh, did anyone else catch the parallels between the possibly-fake-Model-episode and the rape-esque Pamela episode, where he smirked at the end after getting what he wanted from the woman he was pursuing? Might be some parallels there that we can focus on instead of a 50 page derail.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:31
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There could be something in the use of male force there. Even though each time is a different gender not properly comprehending what the other is trying to communicate, the women are the ones who end up with force being used against them on both occasions. Maybe not, though.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:45
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This is a good article, even if a bit wordy and blowhard-y. Although, I had no idea the ratings for Louie sucked.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:51
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funniest old Louis CK bit. http://youtu.be/ehWAV_az0OI?t=19m29s
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Jul 2, 2014 23:58
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So Pamela Adlon plays basically the same character on Californication, and that character was also almost raped in that show's finale. The dialog is even very close.
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Jul 3, 2014 02:30
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I don't think Pamela and Louie are going to be together for all of season 5 -- or even most of season 5 -- but then again, I never thought season 4 would have three feature-length multi-episode arcs, so what do I know.
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Jul 18, 2014 20:42
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