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He criticized the ideological failures of Elysium as well I think, so I don't think that's what he's looking for in PR. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 16:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Elysium, as a direct contrast, ends with the successful implementation of true universal democracy - and thus cannot be sequelized. There is no post-credits teaser for Elysium 2, and there will not be an Elysium 2. He says this all the goddamn time
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Jun 29, 2014 16:19
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Welp. In that case then, in SMG's Pacific Rim, would such a state be achievable before the giant monsters wreck half the world up? e: VVV I'm serious I want to know what SMG's version of this looks like, besides brighter. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 16:21
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Pacific Rim is make believe, so why not
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Jun 29, 2014 16:25
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RBA Starblade posted:Welp. In that case then, in SMG's Pacific Rim, would such a state be achievable before the giant monsters wreck half the world up? There is no SMG version because he's reading the real Pacific Rim as fascist. Also I believe the answer upthread amounted to "Kaiju and Jaeger pilots team up to fight against their oppressors."
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Jun 29, 2014 16:47
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I wouldn't make Pacific Rim. It's a pretty bad film.
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Jun 29, 2014 16:49
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I was responding to the logic of this post.RBA Starblade posted:And so, the brave, true, noble heroes needed to do what must be done, and instigate global revolution, dispensing with the cowards and undesirable bougies in a final solution. You are positing that a revolution would dispense with 'cowards' and undesirables in an, and I quote, "final solution". Your point, I assumed, was that you think SMG not only actually thinks this, but that he's wrong for thinking it. I don't agree with either of your premises. Furthermore, you deliberately quoted something SMG said as evidence that they actually think this, when they were pretty purposefully making a sweeping statement. This is deceit.
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Jun 29, 2014 16:52
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Lightanchor posted:I don't think that's worth separating. It very much is. For one thing, it masks the ideology as pragmatism. That's why so many fans protest that the characters were "just responding to the threat of extinction." The scenario presents fascism as the only plausible response to the kaiju by presenting a set of circumstances that eliminates all other options. It also contrasts with a movie in which the characters are consciously fighting for an ideology, which itself may or may not suit the world and circumstances of the characters. It would be a very different movie if the characters were handed a more open ended-scenario and chose fascism from among several possible socio-political responses to the kaiju.
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Jun 29, 2014 16:52
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Pacific Rim even includes a literal stabbed in the back subplot, about how the
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Jun 29, 2014 16:54
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Very few films are pro-elitism to be fair.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:04
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Kaiju are Jeager Jeager are Kaiju If one is fascist then so is the other
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Jun 29, 2014 17:07
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Hbomberguy posted:I was responding to the logic of this post. I was relating it to fascism sarcastically. I wasn't being serious. I said this twice. Maybe we should get our eyes checked together. quote:If one is fascist then so is the other No, one is good and the other is bad. The good guys are the ones killing everyone. quote:I wouldn't make Pacific Rim. It's a pretty bad film. So you can't imagine the revolution either? Oh well. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 17:10
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RBA Starblade posted:While I was being facetious earlier, I sincerely hope this answered your question Hbomberguy. You are a liar.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:14
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Hbomberguy posted:You are a liar. Maybe you should look up what facetious means. Though yes, SMG did then say that they should in fact kill them, so something came out of it. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 17:15
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Jaeger pilots are the baby kaiju After drifting (!!!) both sides share Intel with their superiors They are two sides of the same coin and both sides come up fascist.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:17
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Perhaps we are all fascist pennies...in the fountain of life. ed; pennies is not spelled pennises
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Jun 29, 2014 17:19
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Hbomberguy posted:Perhaps we are all fascist pennies...in the fountain of life. perhaps even life itself is fascist though we could stand to replace pennies with penises
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Jun 29, 2014 17:22
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Lessail posted:Jaeger pilots are the baby kaiju "You said it yourself, Kain. There are only two sides to your coin." "Apparently so. But suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose, one day, it lands on its edge." The edge of the coin is the communist Idea, the "impossible" solution to the apparent deadlock normally represented in society (between liberal democracy and fascist/totalitarian/etc. ideologies).
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Jun 29, 2014 17:38
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Man, the Legacy of Kain games were so good and had good messages to them. Pity about Pacific Rim tho
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Jun 29, 2014 17:41
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Vermain posted:"You said it yourself, Kain. There are only two sides to your coin." [Zizek's] own dream project is a version of Antigone with three different endings. In the third version, neither Antigone nor her opponent King Creon wins: "The chorus steps in and says, 'These are your bourgeois feudal struggles,' and arrests them both."
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Jun 29, 2014 17:43
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Maybe the working class not magically making the capitalist system disappear at the end of the film with their giant robots isn't a flaw, but an observation of how things actually work. The rich create the problems the working class have to live with, and the working class are so wrapped up in survival and dealing with the acute problems the moneyed classes caused that they can't deal with the big picture of how the system dooms them.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:53
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sean10mm posted:Maybe the working class not magically making the capitalist system disappear at the end of the film with their giant robots isn't a flaw, but an observation of how things actually work. The rich create the problems the working class have to live with, and the working class are so wrapped up in survival and dealing with the acute problems the moneyed classes caused that they can't deal with the big picture of how the system dooms them. The film itself shows Stacker watching widespread rioting on TV. He presumes, falsely, that the rioters are rioting in favor of the PPDC.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:59
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Hbomberguy posted:Perhaps we are all fascist pennies...in the fountain of life. I bet there'll be a lot more pennise swords in the sequel. Maybe a piledriver for maximum dong.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:03
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Hodgepodge posted:It very much is. I think what you're saying is basically what I was saying earlier. It's just that it doesn't bother me to call the characters fascist or the ideological narrative fascist, I'm happy to switch it up based on the conversation. I would add, those who think that Pacific Rim is all about fighting the threat of climate change have to realize even if that were the best reading, 'climate change' would still be the enemy of a fascist ideological narrative. This enemy just happens to be oriental, feminine, abject, etc., confirming the fascist narrative and problematizing the idea that it's just 'climate change'. I can see why this would inspire some people--'it's great to be a fascist against climate change!' A few people are contrasting the kaiju wall with the Jaeger program, but the point is it's not a large mechanical construction that's bad, it's the society that allows such appalling labor conditions that's bad. If there's a contrast, it's between government work versus paramilitary/private work--but the paramilitary/private work was funded by the government in the first place. They reinforce each other, to the detriment of the workers. You're right in outline. Del Toro drew our attention to the terrible working conditions. It's central to the film. Lightanchor fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 18:05
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Lightanchor posted:I think what you're saying is basically what I was saying earlier. It's just that it doesn't bother me to call the characters fascist or the ideological narrative fascist, I'm happy to switch it up based on the conversation. It's actually about big stupid robots. Close this thread.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:06
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James Hardon posted:It's actually about big stupid robots. Close this thread. That's true, too.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:08
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quote:This enemy just happens to be oriental, feminine, abject, etc., confirming the fascist narrative and problematizing the idea that it's just 'climate change'. Well, they're one of those things anyway. quote:It's actually about big stupid robots. Close this thread.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:14
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At the end of the film, Hero Guy and Mako step out before the masses. The sky clears above them. The people stop their rioting, and look up at the sun. "Thank you," says Mako. "For supporting the PPDC in its campaign to cleanse the Earth of the kaiju plague. My father would be grateful that he did not die in vain. His spirit lives on inside you all." A tomato explodes against her black torso plating, and Hero Guy is splattered with juice. "Give us Charlie Day!" Cabbages are thrown, along with smaller bell peppers and the occasional radish. "No more walls! Bring them back!" Event Security steps in to escort Mako off the stage, as Hero Guy yells at the crowd. "How dare you! I gave up my Gipsy for you, and this is the thanks that I get? Show some gratitude!" Eventually he, too, is forced to retreat.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The film itself shows Stacker watching widespread rioting on TV. He presumes, falsely, that the rioters are rioting in favor of the PPDC. There is nothing in the movie to support this.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:39
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Tezcatlipoca posted:There is nothing in the movie to support this. Yes there is. I just described it. Stacker watches the anti-wall riots on TV, and then dies to build a bigger, stronger wall between the two worlds.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:43
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What you described doesn't happen in the movie.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:48
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I've seen worse fan fiction.
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Jun 29, 2014 18:51
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Actually, it does happen. There is a scene in the movie where Stacker watches anti-wall riots on TV.
SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 18:57
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Finally got around to seeing this, and actually really liked it a lot, mostly because it feels like such a loving effort, which smooths out the gung-ho b-movie stuff. The visual design was spectacular, too, and I wish I'd seen it in the theater, everything felt very clear and physical. The best part was that I'd forgotten Ron Perlman was in it, which made his entrance a "holy wow it's THAT guy" moment.
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Jun 29, 2014 19:12
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Actually, it does happen. There is a scene in the movie where Stacker watches anti-wall riots on TV. Nope
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Jun 29, 2014 19:13
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Nope I'm pretty sure that happens, though it has been nearly a year. It wasn't a very long scene. Edit: wow I thought he said "killed BY a wall" lmao ok now I get it. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 19:37
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SHISHKABOB posted:I'm pretty sure that happens, though it has been nearly a year. It wasn't a very long scene. Beckett is the one watching the wall riots. Stacker is in the scene right before it. The only screens Stacker watches are in the command center.
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Jun 29, 2014 19:45
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Beckett is the one watching the wall riots. Stacker is in the scene right before it. The only screens Stacker watches are in the command center. Cue SMG claiming his mistake actually proves his point even better, somehow, and thus wasn't a mistake at all! e: Though I'm not sure what the point is anyway - the riots were because the wall fell down, and it's hinted that the whole project was a fraud. Not because the working class suddenly discovered they don't like the concept of walls or whatever. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 19:51
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quote:Cue SMG claiming his mistake actually proves his point even better, somehow, and thus wasn't a mistake at all! He speaks only Truth, after all. The st-uh, SMG, is infallible.
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Jun 29, 2014 20:02
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sean10mm posted:e: Though I'm not sure what the point is anyway - the riots were because the wall fell down, and it's hinted that the whole project was a fraud. Not because the working class suddenly discovered they don't like the concept of walls or whatever. Well where would we be without walls? Outside. That's where we'd be.
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Jun 29, 2014 20:05
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