20 dex or 18 str

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Imp Zone > 20 dex or 18 str

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

TheSpookyDanger posted:

from the way it's presented in the movies, the difference between summoning unnatural beasts to kill the protagonists via nebulous "computers" and magic seemed purely aesthetic

Soft sci-fi tends to run like that. Instead of "It's magic. I ain't gotta explain poo poo," it's "It's nanomachines/radiation/dark matter/quantum mechanics. I ain't gotta explain poo poo"

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:20

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 15:36

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

Xelkelvos posted:

Soft sci-fi tends to run like that. Instead of "It's magic. I ain't gotta explain poo poo," it's "It's nanomachines/radiation/dark matter/quantum mechanics. I ain't gotta explain poo poo"

yeah, in my mind i don't really separate sci-fi and fantasy based on the existence of magic existing for just this reason.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:26

Fuego Fish: Dec 5, 2004; By tooth and claw!

Rexides posted:

Having played "high (tolkein) fantasy" elfgames for years, I'd too like to see a new D&D built around something more interesting that "we have elves; but wait! We have both high aaaaaand wood elves!", but that would be a hard sell to new players.

High and weed elves :350:

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:27

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Fuego Fish posted:

High and weed elves

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:28

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

LFK posted:

He gave us a lecture about having energy-drain-protection or someshit in your wallet all the time in case you pick up a prostitute and she's haunted. Not that preparedness ever mattered, since he found the idea of any sort of player metagaming so anathema to the game that he would never re-use monsters, and if he did he'd always throw in some "twist", so "metagaming" had bloated to include anything that might indicate the players know what the gently caress is going on. "Your players know that X is vulnerable to Y? Find some way to subvert that knowledge, making it useless or, even better, actively harmful! Punish them for solving your puzzles!"

I hated 3e's rock-paper-scissors mechanics and adversarial tone so much that I've purged most of the specifics. 90% of it boiled down to "you didn't prepare the right spells" anyway, and I think was still trying to build an archer fighter because I was young and na�ve, so "am I even capable of damaging them?" was a question I asked far too many times per session.

this is cool because you were really just being taught to quickly predict and fulfill the desires of your particular gm

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:32

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

TheSpookyDanger posted:

yeah, in my mind i don't really separate sci-fi and fantasy based on the existence of magic existing for just this reason.

sci fi/fantasy used to be considered essentially the same literary genre.

Hell make a new D&D that just goes full out with that, magic spaceships ahoy and ray guns and hippo men with flintlock pistols.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:33

S.J.: May 19, 2008; Just who the hell do you think we are?

sci-fi magic is way cooler than fantasy magic anyways

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:35

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

Rulebook Heavily posted:

sci fi/fantasy used to be considered essentially the same literary genre.

Hell make a new D&D that just goes full out with that, magic spaceships ahoy and ray guns and hippo men with flintlock pistols.

i've loved spelljammer since i got that AD&D box set with the fold out map and the audio CD in middle school. it's my number one poo poo.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:37

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

Rulebook Heavily posted:

sci fi/fantasy used to be considered essentially the same literary genre.

Hell make a new D&D that just goes full out with that, magic spaceships ahoy and ray guns and hippo men with flintlock pistols.

i feel like this is what numenera was trying to do before it tripped over the "basically fantasy with nanomachines and weird poo poo instead of explicit magic" bit and never really got on its feet

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:39

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Hell make a new D&D that just goes full out with that, magic spaceships ahoy and ray guns and hippo men with flintlock pistols.

Mystara and Spelljammer are the answer to everything wrong with D&D? Well grogs hate it, so

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:40

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

01011001 posted:

i feel like this is what numenera was trying to do before it tripped over the "basically fantasy with nanomachines and weird poo poo instead of explicit magic" bit and never really got on its feet

i never checked out Numenera because i don't trust ol monte, is it really bad?

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:44

Elfgames: Sep 11, 2011; Fun Shoe

zachol posted:

I think it's fine if the default setting is cliche fantasy, that's what people expect when they go and buy D&D.
However, the problem I have with Next regarding that is they seem to have really tightly woven together the description of things with the rules themselves, in a way that might make some people confused or uncomfortable about reskinning things.
Being really inflexible about the assumed setting is much worse than having a boring assumed setting.

I really enjoyed the simple evocative fluff of 4e it was just enough to get me interested but not so much it made my eyes glaze over.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:45

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

TheSpookyDanger posted:

i never checked out Numenera because i don't trust ol monte, is it really bad?

i like it and will defend parts of it but it pretty squarely falls into the same monte cook poo poo in other parts

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

TheSpookyDanger posted:

i never checked out Numenera because i don't trust ol monte, is it really bad?

yes

its exactly what youd expect from a fate-like storytelling system designed by a guy who got his career started by editing and contributing rules expansions to the rolemaster rpg

and the setting manages to miss the point of vance and wolfe even worse than his world of darkness game managed to miss the point of the wod

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:49

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

FMguru posted:

and the setting manages to miss the point of vance and wolfe even worse than his world of darkness game managed to miss the point of the wod

yeah this is more or less the original point i was trying to make

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:51

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

Halloween Jack posted:

Mystara and Spelljammer are the answer to everything wrong with D&D? Well grogs hate it, so

Grogs are coincidentally about 95% of what's wrong with D&D as it happens

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:55

crime fighting hog: Jun 29, 2006; I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

I forget, wasn't Monte part of Next at the outset but left due to arguments and poo poo?

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:56

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Grogs are coincidentally about 95% of what's wrong with D&D as it happens

Fix D&D with this one weird trick, discovered by a stay-at-Holmes Mentzer

Grognards hate it!

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:57

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

The real problem is when the grogs are running the house, as they have done for most of D&D

Like, why do you think grogs are so invested in 4e's imaginary "failure" to perform financially as an edition despite basically all the evidence either stating "it did fine or better" or "it didn't do any worse" at best? Because they are desperately afraid someone will figure out that leaving them behind is a good idea

# ? Jul 1, 2014 19:59

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

it turns out letting the inmates run the asylum was a bad idea, regardless of how happy it made the other inmates

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:01

Sloppy Milkshake: Nov 9, 2004; I MAKE YOU HUMBLE

Halloween Jack posted:

Fix D&D with this one weird trick, discovered by a stay-at-Holmes Mentzer

Grognards hate it!

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:02

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Rulebook Heavily posted:

The real problem is when the grogs are running the house, as they have done for most of D&D

Like, why do you think grogs are so invested in 4e's imaginary "failure" to perform financially as an edition despite basically all the evidence either stating "it did fine or better" or "it didn't do any worse" at best? Because they are desperately afraid someone will figure out that leaving them behind is a good idea

The Red Box is the best-selling version of D&D, but that's only because they put it in toy stores. You know, for children. What shut up SHUT UP MOM can't you see I'm busy here

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:05

Father Wendigo: Sep 28, 2005; This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

crime fighting hog posted:

I forget, wasn't Monte part of Next at the outset but left due to arguments and poo poo?

He was there for a month, which was long enough for him to write a L&L article about what should make a comeback where he opened with the example gender-based attribute penalties as an example, then ended 'But of course we won't do this (but what if we should?) You tell us!'

Mearles posted a same-day apology and promptly scuttled the poll.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:05

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

01011001 posted:

it turns out letting the inmates run the asylum was a bad idea, regardless of how happy it made the other inmates

good news, they redecorated and stayed well within the budget

bad news, the walls are now covered in actual poo poo

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:06

LFK: Jan 5, 2013

Ferrinus posted:

this is cool because you were really just being taught to quickly predict and fulfill the desires of your particular gm

I did develop magical mind-reading power that let me predict every possible twist: I put points in Use Magic Item and stockpiled wands that hard countered every bullshit "gotcha!" the game had to offer.

He did slowly get better, though, after I yelled at him for an hour about moon logic after he went all :agesilaus:

explaining some NPC conspiracy that we'd missed. A bunch of people, who we had no reason to be suspicious of, were hiding stuff from us, and we didn't think to find out if we should think to find out if they were hiding something that we didn't know we were looking for in the first place.

Just like the DM can kill everyone if he really wants to, if the DM wants to hide information from the PCs, the players will never even know there was a secret being kept.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:07

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

good news, they redecorated and stayed well within the budget

bad news, the walls are now covered in actual poo poo

now? walls covered in poo poo has always been the state of this asylum. who are you to suggest otherwise

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:08

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Rulebook Heavily posted:

The real problem is when the grogs are running the house, as they have done for most of D&D

Like, why do you think grogs are so invested in 4e's imaginary "failure" to perform financially as an edition despite basically all the evidence either stating "it did fine or better" or "it didn't do any worse" at best? Because they are desperately afraid someone will figure out that leaving them behind is a good idea

Rob Kuntz posted:

With the advent and adoption of the concept of pre-made adventures the whole back-end �support� mechanism took upon a new meaning and form and one, by comparison, that flew in the face of TSR�s original vision for its role-playing game. Whereas there was at that point a solid corps of DMs creating their games from the ground up and doing so with great gusto, TSR succumbed to an opposite path of doing the �creating� for them with such adventures.

This had two immediate effects: It created two polarized camps of consumers for the existing, and soon to be changed, product line (I now refer to these as the �dissenting creatives� and the �eager dependents�); and as the move to AD&D with its codification of rules took shape (in part for legal reasons due to its lawsuit with Arneson, in part for IP reasons real or imagined, and in large part due to a changed philosophy which would require absolute/immutable mechanics to be adhered to in order to sell consistently packaged and designed adventures and to promote these via conventions and the RPGA), the split reached its head with the promotion and marketing of the remade philosophy.

The emphasis on supporting the game in its titular and original form vanished. This move to a mass-market consumer model perforce "dumbed down" the game as TSR attempted to get onto retail shelves worldwide. This happened in the face of all original veterans of the philosophy one-by-one leaving the company (other than EGG) and being replaced by a second wave of designers (1978 forward) to accomplish its market goals as then outlined and re-envisioned.

From this point forward we see the promotion of a flagship line of AD&D products �For Your Imagination,� a consistent promotion of Basic D&D specifically aimed at the mass market and the abandonment, wholesale, of the original RP-Creative vision, and by such marketing dynamics, an equal abandonment of the idea of TSR as a diverse game publisher.

It turns out that "greatest grognard" and "worst grognard" are the same thing.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:11

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

TheSpookyDanger posted:

i never checked out Numenera because i don't trust ol monte, is it really bad?

Yes. Also, Sean K Reynolds teamed up with Monte Cook to make it.

Numenera posted:

Glaives are the warriors of the Ninth World. Glaives can wear heavy armor and wield massive weapons, or they can fight with light weapons and armor so they can move quickly.

Nanos are wizard-like characters who harness the numenera to work miracles. These miracles, called esoteries, walk the line somewhere between machine and magic, depending on the Nano�s particular skillset.

Jacks are named after jacks-of-all-trades. They have a lot of tricks in their bags, which makes them skilled at a little bit of everything.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:11

LFK: Jan 5, 2013

crime fighting hog posted:

I forget, wasn't Monte part of Next at the outset but left due to arguments and poo poo?

Apparently his idea of "retro modern D&D" was "lets out 3e 3.5!"

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:14

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

Numenera: In which one player uses a weapon and has armor, and the other makes reality their toy.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:17

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

01011001 posted:

now? walls covered in poo poo has always been the state of this asylum. who are you to suggest otherwise

feels like an asylum to me man

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:18

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Dr Pepper posted:

Numenera: In which one player uses a weapon and has armor, and the other makes reality their toy.

Woooah! Slow your roll there, tex. Wears armor, uses weapons, and can move fast, if s/he doesn't wear heavy armor. And, if your GM is nice, s/he might have an unlimited supply of 9-volt batteries in his/her backpack to keep his/her weapon turned on all day.

Truly, this is class balance at its finest.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:23

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

Jack the Lad posted:

Yes. Also, Sean K Reynolds teamed up with Monte Cook to make it.

the wizard/not wizard divide isnt quite as bad as something like 3.5 because everyone's skillset is highly limited (you get two spells/maneuvers/tricks at level 1, one more at every level, max level is 6) but like...even from the getgo glaives get "you deal more damage" or "you're better at not being hit" and nanos get "you can do incredibly useful poo poo in combat and out"

Dr Pepper posted:

Numenera: In which one player uses a weapon and has armor, and the other makes reality their toy.

more or less this

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:24

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

also combat goes super fast so if you get purely combat buffs its really dumb. at least the supplement gave glaives some nice poo poo instead of loving nothing

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:26

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

has anyone mentioned that your stats are also your hp in numenera and you spend the relevant stat (physical/mental/who cares) to use your powers so you burn from both ends playing the fighter, while virtually nothing does damage to your mental stat

because i feel like that's also relevant here

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:27

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

has anyone mentioned that your stats are also your hp in numenera and you spend the relevant stat (physical/mental/who cares) to use your powers so you burn from both ends playing the fighter, while virtually nothing does damage to your mental stat

because i feel like that's also relevant here

the main thing there is that you have edge which reduces power drain. glaives start with edge in 2 stats and you will basically get 1/level. most might/speed powers cost something around your tier while intellect powers are almost always higher. that means you will basically be able to use powers from your concentrated might/speed stat free or nearly while intellect-users have to burn stat to use theirs, which means they have to boost their intellect pool to not bankrupt themselves, which means theyre sitting with gently caress-all for might

of course out of combat this is virtually meaningless because nanos and jacks just simply have more verbs available to them and daily recoveries mean its the same old poo poo as far as that goes

also the fun foci usually use intellect so, welp

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:35

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

it's the worst game made by monte cook which is like beating catwoman at the razzies

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:37

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Father Wendigo posted:

He was there for a month, which was long enough for him to write a L&L article about what should make a comeback where he opened with the example gender-based attribute penalties as an example, then ended 'But of course we won't do this (but what if we should?) You tell us!'

Mearles posted a same-day apology and promptly scuttled the poll.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:50

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

has anyone mentioned that your stats are also your hp in numenera and you spend the relevant stat (physical/mental/who cares) to use your powers so you burn from both ends playing the fighter, while virtually nothing does damage to your mental stat

because i feel like that's also relevant here

Things that have to happen before you make a check: commit to spending hit points to make it easier.

Things that don't have to happen before you make a check: the GM actually tells you how hard it is.

Yeah, turns out that rusty door in the buried shuttle from five civilizations ago was actually difficulty 1 to open because it was rusty and brittle! Hope you enjoyed the half your hit points you spent finding that out!

# ? Jul 1, 2014 20:57

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 15:36

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

theres literally a line in numenera like "the society of the ninth age closely resembles that of medieval europe, with kińs and castles and so on" and its like are you having a giggle there mate

Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 1, 2014

# ? Jul 1, 2014 21:00

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