|
Karnegal posted:There is a different between kickstarter and some random game you're interested in. The entire playerbase has already paid. Indeed, some of them paid specifically for features that are significantly changed by these "updates". You can say what you want about their ability to make changes, but ultimately they can only deviate so far from the KS promises before they piss people off. Unlike a traditional game where I can say, "I don't like X changes, so I won't buy it." On KS you an say, "This is not the product that was sold to me in the KS; I paid for something else. I am going to sue you." I'm not personally interested in suing CZ, nor do I think we're there at this point, but it is a significantly different situation from traditional game development and sales - both for the company and the consumer. You're being loving ridiculous and the kickstarter pitch itself does not mention any specifics about how experience is accumulated or whether it is character or account bound so crawl out your own rear end for a second here dude. gently caress, with the exception of the rewards, they don't even mention Experience except when referring to the experience of playing the game. They are completely within their rights to have a Dota-style XP bar that is completely meaningless except for dropping a random item every time you "level up" and they would be completely in the clear. Like, if they were raising funds for a bicycle and they shipped you raw meat instead, then sure, you have a kickstarter case. But "The game design isn't how I envisioned it when they gave no indication that my made up fantasy of what it could be was realizable or attainable, also I have been playing the game regularly during the beta and enjoying it, but this one feature that was never defined except in my daydreams wasn't there" is not a loving legal case.
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
Sigma-X posted:But "The game design isn't how I envisioned it when they gave no indication that my made up fantasy of what it could be was realizable or attainable, also I have been playing the game regularly during the beta and enjoying it, but this one feature that was never defined except in my daydreams wasn't there" is not a loving legal case. Wow, someone's pretty ticked off about being totally wrong. Like it or not, CZE did describe the design of both champions and mercenaries as considerably and fundamentally different than the way the new re-design. The fact that you didn't look hard enough for that information doesn't really validate your venom. EDIT: To be clear, I think suing them over it would be totally silly, but they DID, in fact, tell us that champions and mercenaries would gain experience and level up on a persistent, MMORPG-style basis.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
Blazing Zero posted:I only know of one kickstarter that was successfully sued. Washington state sued some guy who ran off with 25K USD because he didn't do anything at all. Just took the money and ran. I don't see how hex could be described as doing that. No, not yet anyway. But kickstarter is more or less uncharted territory. A couple of lawsuits being won is really all that's necessary to start making other lawsuits look legitimate. For what it's worth I think threatening lawsuits over kickstarter ideas not coming out the way someone wants is ridiculous, but that doesn't mean they aren't possible. As far as the mercenary thing this is all about, I'm a little torn. I like that meta shifts(which will be frequent; every set release at least) aren't going to be hard to work around. On the other hand, I am still emotionally attached to Death Knights in WoW and I haven't played one in years. The dedication you have to make to one character does make a difference. But in the end, I think both systems are fine. We'll likely all end up playing two or three mercs tops just due to how we all have our own playstyle, regardless of leveling systems.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2014 23:47
|
|
|
I'm a pretty big fan of Hex even as just a Magic clone but can we not have people crawl out of the woodwork to defend sketchy and/or lovely actions on the part of game developers? It happens with so many of the games I try to talk about on SA and it gets really tiresome. I'm not even saying CZE is there yet, but it seems like we already have the defense squad donning their suits of shining armor. Anyway, like I said, Hex will have a reason to exist even if it's primarily a Magic clone with some also-ran PVE, but I too am very disappointed that they're walking back the sort of RPG-like progression that was impressed upon backers of the Kickstarter. If indeed they are walking it back. I don't think I've gotten a clear picture of that yet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:I'm a pretty big fan of Hex even as just a Magic clone but can we not have people crawl out of the woodwork to defend sketchy and/or lovely actions on the part of game developers? It happens with so many of the games I try to talk about on SA and it gets really tiresome. I'm not even saying CZE is there yet, but it seems like we already have the defense squad donning their suits of shining armor. No one has gotten a clear picture of it yet, which is why I think it is inane that people are bitching about it. In much more exciting news, I played my first sealed, 3-0'd it with a terrible deck against better decks with worse players, got a primal in my 6 victory packs (lovely EV on sealed - 200plat into 40k gold if you take 1st...which is the same ratio as a swiss draft, but with a draft you at least have more control over the cardpool you get), and cracked an Angel in the the primal. Watching my first round opponent play himslf out of a victory in the 2nd and 3rd games was hilarious. He had me dead in two turns, except he played his removal wrong, and kept me in for another 10+ turns. Then he played a sorrow to shrink my board and kill my 1/1 thunderbird, but I had wild aura and a polymorph dingler in my hand to kill his Claw of the Mountain and keep my bird alive. Won the game with 5 cards left in my deck. I cannot begin to describe how useful Secret Laboratory and the 1/1 Wild/Saphire merfolk looter are in sealed. When you have mediocre cards and are in 3 colors, you need to be drawing a real card every turn, not shards, and those cards fix that problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 00:38
|
|
|
Not a fan of this change, not one bit. I guess I'll wait until I see how the new system is implemented passing judgement, but it seems like a step in the 'have the netdeck2win' direction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 01:32
|
|
|
Blazing Zero posted:I don't think kickstarter works the way you think it does. It's been hashed out many times before but you essentially gave them your money to do whatever they want with it so long as they make a good faith effort to deliver or however they word it in the junk you signed up for with kickstarter. If the game isn't what you thought it was anymore, you're out that money, plain and simple. There have been several successful law suits that beg to differ. Sigma-X posted:You're being loving ridiculous and the kickstarter pitch itself does not mention any specifics about how experience is accumulated or whether it is character or account bound so crawl out your own rear end for a second here dude. gently caress, with the exception of the rewards, they don't even mention Experience except when referring to the experience of playing the game. They are completely within their rights to have a Dota-style XP bar that is completely meaningless except for dropping a random item every time you "level up" and they would be completely in the clear. I'm not even raging here man, calm down. There are ample links from the KS to video from them as well as images of leveling champions. It's not like everyone who is upset about the change made up what was said in the first place. My point is just that by choosing to go through kickstarter and selling game items, you can only change those so much before people get pissed, and if you piss enough people off to a sufficient degree, someone may sue you. It's not going to be me, but it wouldn't be like it's never happened before. Again, I'm somewhat disappointed, but losing sleep over it personally, just looking at potentially broader implications. Bike to meat is hyperbole. What if the PvE ends up looking nothing like PvE as discussed in the KS? I mean, you still got a card game? Where does the line exist for something like that? I don't think anyone knows. EDIT: good faith only gets you so far. This case is notable as one of the first http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html - the guy who got sued ended up declaring bankruptcy. Obvious CZ has more cash than this dude, but they're probably good on legal fee with WotC loving them. EDIT 2: the important decision in the case (it was a lower court in Arizona, so this could be changed in the future) was that the judge ruled the backers were customers not investors. This apparently has ramifications for product delivery obligations. Karnegal fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jul 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 01:46
|
|
|
The important part is that they make the game good+fun, so yea they can make all the changes they want just so long as they keep their hands off my free drafts + collectors AA cards + extra loot drops The hexpromos.com site says "Cryptozoic confirmed that all promos of the Collector Tier are alternate art versions of either rare or legendary cards", I can't find a source for that but now I'm wondering what card from Set 1 it will be (c'mon Angel of Dawn!)
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 01:53
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:You're being loving ridiculous and the kickstarter pitch itself does not mention any specifics about how experience is accumulated or whether it is character or account bound so crawl out your own rear end for a second here dude. Actually it did show experience for Mercs and Champions, and I'm not going to go through hours of vods or find the specific comments but I'm pretty sure they were even pimping the Guild Leader tier out by saying things like, "I think it's a pretty undervalued tier because it will be a significant advantage in PVE". Sigma-X posted:No one has gotten a clear picture of it yet, which is why I think it is inane that people are bitching about it. The current information says Mercs and Champions aren't going to have experience in any way that would be beneficial of the +10% experience tier that was dedicated to PVE on the kickstarter. It's pretty clear that they were going for an experience system before and are no longer doing it. I can enjoy Hex and also be critical of it at the same time and call them out when they make concessions on things they promised rather than white knight them and support every single decision they make without question. As long as I can liquidate my platinum by trading or selling it back to CZE, there was a post suggesting this may be a feature down the road, I've essentially paid zero dollars for my king+grand king. So my disappointment comes from changes in what I wanted to play and what I believed was being offered and isn't completely financially motivated. What they are describing is hardly anything I would consider an RPG and as people have mentioned they seem to be going to some kind of MOBA leveling system. That's certainly not what was suggested during the kickstarter and something I'm significantly less interested in. Edit: And if we are being honest here, everyone is having a civil discussion except you, who is actually the one over reacting. katkillad2 fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
Grim posted:I can't find a source for that but now I'm wondering what card from Set 1 it will be (c'mon Angel of Dawn!) They havn't revealed what the Collector tier AA for set 1 will be, only that there will be only 1 (which means either set 2 or 3 will have 3 Collector AAs). It has been said that the AA cards for set 1 were drawn from cards that had art Cory wasn't entirely satisfied with, though, so it's unlikely to be Angel of Dawn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 04:20
|
|
|
It's going to be repel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 05:37
|
|
|
Maybe a less anime-style Relentless Corruption? Rampaging Tarasque is probably the worst of the art that was kept, Shrewd Manipulation doesn't seem to have anything to do with the effect of the card, etc
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 05:42
|
|
|
I was thinking Vine Trap. I don't remember how the collector tier is supposed to work. Do you only get 1x of the AA cards? I wanted to get a set of them, but they will probably be AA Ozawa prices if that's the case, with the exception of the Set 1 card if it's terrible. Edit: I kind of like Rampaging Tarasque, the face reminds me of really old Chinese art. katkillad2 fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jul 6, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 05:43
|
|
|
I'm not sure which way the AA guys would go. I think normal ragefire looks better than the promo, so my taste differs from Cory anyway. My picks for needs new art would be: Legendaries with bad art: Eternal Guardian Resurrection ehh: High Tomb Lord Rampaging Tarasque Crown of the Primals Eternal Guardian would by my guess for a legendary - it'll have popularity in PvE and casual PvP and it looks like rear end. Rares with bad art: Surge Mechanism Bird o' Plenty Inferno Kindling Skarn Uzume, Grand Concubunny I think Hop'hiro looks goofy as hell but that would be 3 arts There are a decent amount that are borderline, the only one that's really awful is Kindling Skarn. That said, I'd rather have playable cards than cards with bad art get AA versions. Like, I guess the AA Windbourne Acolyte is better than the original, but I'll probably never use it, so it can look better unnoticed in my collection. I am happy that the game is embracing diverse art styles though and it's not going to look as bland and samey as Magic has become.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
http://www.twitch.tv/mightygerm1/ Starting a draft
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 12:49
|
|
|
Karnegal posted:Rares with bad art:
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 13:48
|
|
|
I like the changes they mentioned to the mercenary system. Having to level grind a mercenary always seemed kind of counterintuitive, and the idea of being able to keep alternate decks in reserve for dungeons sounds cool. I think Crushing Blow is a strong contender for Worst Art. Really glad they're going with diverse styles though. The samey art pretty much killed any interest I had in the collecting aspect of MTG.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 14:12
|
|
|
katkillad2 posted:I was thinking Vine Trap. With Kickstarter rewards, you're supposed to get 2 copies of each AA card. Keep in mind though that it's not just Collectors who get them, it's everyone with Grand King and up, too. Obviously Vampire King has the worst art in the set. Right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 14:16
|
|
|
^^^ It would be nice if they made some AA for solidly playable cards - Extinction was a KS reward being a good exampleLightReaper posted:Why you hating on bunnies? Uzume I think has nice art (detail, shading and the fold lines in her robe is some nice attention to detail) and Hop'hiro is indeed goofy but like you said, varied art-styles are appreciated. I'm really looking forward to set two as I'm hoping their will be a lot of coyotle and they could do some real cool abstract stuff with them - alot of their cards already look great, such as dream dance, chimes of the zodiac & mutate. Mentor of the Song looks generically pretty nice but I hope it's not their baseline for set 2 coyotle. She just looks off to me. Maybe she looks a little less human and more bunny than most of the others? Also the rabbits in the foreground are weirdly lacking in detail- they look like stuffed toys rather than juvenile Shin'Hare. I get using less detail on background images, but it seems weird with an element in the foreground that we're presumably supposed to be looking at. Compare to Ritualist of the Spring Litter where the baby rabbits are also similarly rendered, but the style carries over to the adult rabbit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
My Diamond/Sapphire deck I've been testing is just begging for instant speed card draw, I hope that gets added sooner rather than later. While I'm at it, anyone got any critique for the deck? I've made an effort to not just netdeck and keep it relatively toolbox-y. Diamond/Sapphire Control 4 x Cerulean Mirror Knight 4 x Peek 2 x Time Ripple 4 x Living Totem 4 x Buccaneer 1 x Mesmerize 4 x Countermagic 2 x Solitary Exile 1 x Inner Conflict 3 x Eldritch Dreamer (socketed with the do damage draw a card gem) 2 x Splinter of Azathoth 4 x Angel of Dawn 13 x Sapphire Shard 8 x Diamond Shard 4 x Shards of fate Sideboard: 1 x Reversion 3 x Flock of Seagulls 2 x Arcane Shield 1 x Frost Wizard 1 x Repel 1 x Immortality 1 x Mesmerize 2 x Polymorph: Dingler 2 x Yesterday 1 x Diamond Aura I just recently swapped in the splinters, they were previously Wizards of the Silver Talon, but while the interaction between mirror knights and them was sweet, it didn't really fit the controlling nature of the deck. Be as merciless as you'd like with critique, as I've got the tendency to try and play with cards that aren't super effective, but just fun to play with. Karnegal posted:^^^ It would be nice if they made some AA for solidly playable cards - Extinction was a KS reward being a good example
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Can anyone confirm or deny (preferably with citations) that non-expiring draft tickets given out due to bugs are only usable with set 1 and will not be usable with set 2?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Every time bad art comes up people somehow forget Crushing Blow. It's a good combat trick so it's a card worth using but is the worst art in the game without question, making it a top contender for alternate art.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:20
|
|
|
It isn't a rare or legendary; that means it won't be the set 1 Collector AA card.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
Vincent Valentine posted:Every time bad art comes up people somehow forget Crushing Blow. It's a good combat trick so it's a card worth using but is the worst art in the game without question, making it a top contender for alternate art.  The prosecution rests, your honor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
Yeah, but that already has alternate art.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
Gross Dude posted:Yeah, but that already has alternate art.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:45
|
|
|
LightReaper posted:Exhibit A in the case against Veteran Gladiator On the other hand  Something about cards with female orcs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:45
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:On the other hand
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:47
|
|
|
 This is the worst art. The ladder wouldn't fit on the wall, it would be flushed right up against it.. Is the wall rounded or straight I can't tell? What's up with the bottom guy's face?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
Yeah if we start looking at cards other than rares and legendaries there are more offenders.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
What really gets me is the size stuff. Avalanche Giant is loving huge in the art, but it's only 3/4. Meanwhile Captain of the Dragon Guard is 4/4. He could straight up kill this massive giant. Is this some Shadow of the Colossus poo poo? If he was named, like King Gabriel, I would be more understanding. This us some random mook though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 02:01
|
|
|
LightReaper posted:I get what you're saying, she's doing the classic stupid pose that dumb male artists think is sexy, and her face is a complete mess - but look at that sword what the poo poo. She's swinging the sword so fast the air pressure is causing it to bend. That's what you need to do to get 3 power in today's economy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 02:15
|
|
|
Go RV! posted:What really gets me is the size stuff. Avalanche Giant is loving huge in the art, but it's only 3/4. That is a very dangerous line of thought because that is exactly what got cards like Sivitri Scarzam got printed. Slifter fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jul 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
Playing a draft right now! http://www.twitch.tv/lightreaper
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 14:07
|
|
|
Slifter posted:That is a very dangerous line of thought because that is exactly what got cards like Sivitri Scarzam got printed. I thought it was that the Wizards guys wanted to make their D&D characters canon. But really, I mean that there should be some limits on how big a normal human can get without being a Special Case, like a named character or something. I haven't played MtG for a while, but I know they have rules about that sort of thing. A standard, everyday guy is probably 0/1 or 1/1. Knights are 2/2. The biggest a normal human can get is about 3/3 (Going off of memory here). I'd love to see some similar guidelines in Hex, so that we don't get weird Avalanche Giant situations.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
Go RV! posted:I thought it was that the Wizards guys wanted to make their D&D characters canon. I assume the hexing gems or whatever they're called power you up so you can break the rules.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 14:51
|
|
|
In mtg a squirrel can kill a caribou no problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 16:19
|
|
|
Gross Dude posted:In mtg a squirrel can kill a caribou no problem. http://tinyurl.com/kj8l6eq Go RV! posted:I thought it was that the Wizards guys wanted to make their D&D characters canon. In the recent past humans have topped out at around 4/4 to 5/5. There are so many other silly and unintuitive things that happen in the game that the size of creatures isn't eveb on my radar. If it makes you feel any better think of it as the humans pulling a David vs Goliath or doing something else clever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
What are people guessing on public beta? If we're about 6 weeks off of GenCon (where I believe we're getting set 2), I have to imagine that somewhere in there we'll see the game open up more. Aside from trading what are we missing for open beta? I mean obviously PvE isn't in, but at this point, I've sort of moved onto "it'll be here someday" and I don't really expect to see it any time soon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 20:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:13 |
|
|
Karnegal posted:What are people guessing on public beta? If we're about 6 weeks off of GenCon (where I believe we're getting set 2), I have to imagine that somewhere in there we'll see the game open up more. Aside from trading what are we missing for open beta? I mean obviously PvE isn't in, but at this point, I've sort of moved onto "it'll be here someday" and I don't really expect to see it any time soon. Properly working big tournaments (which will be back this week, prep your decks now) Custom/user made tournaments Doublebacks (is this tied to PvE?) Guilds But yeah, trading is really the other main thing. Once trading is in, constructed will become much more accessible, especially for new players.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 20:40
|
|