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Lurdiak posted:I dunno, patriotism isn't the best reason to take such a huge risk, but it beats out greed. Less greed and more ego. Reed Richards, First Man To Put Himself In Space instead of Reed Richards, CEO of Richards Aerospace. Another parallel with Doom, who's accident reinforced his hubris
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Jul 6, 2014 23:58
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Mr. Maltose posted:Less greed and more ego. Reed Richards, First Man To Put Himself In Space instead of Reed Richards, CEO of Richards Aerospace. Another parallel with Doom, who's accident reinforced his hubris Yes. FF works a lot better if the accident was caused by Reed pushing things too far out of arrogance.
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Jul 7, 2014 01:49
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Skwirl posted:Fantastic Four is probably the origin story that suffers the most from the sliding timescale. Peter Parker is fine, just change the word radioactive to genetically engineered, or don't, gently caress it. Tony Stark just requires changing the warzone he was captured in. Captain America almost works better as time goes on, he becomes even more a man out of time. And people are going to be experimenting with new ways to blow each other up forever, so The Hulk is good to go. But the FF really works best if their ill-fated rocket journey happens before we actually sent people into space and got them home safely. They originally met The Watcher in the blue spot of the moon 4 or 5 years before Neil Armstrong got there. It's not so bad, especially since we've all but abandoned space in the last couple decades. You can just push their flight to Mars, or any of the sci-fi-favorite moons of Jupiter. The origin story that I think suffers the most is Punisher. Him and his alienation is really a product of Vietnam. Current war vets are loved regardless of the war, and PTSD sufferers are sympathized with.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:36
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My point was getting powers from "cosmic rays, while in a low earth orbit" makes a lot less sense when we have people walking around who've been to the loving moon (the FF didn't even get that far in their first trip) and came back fine. I don't know anyone who's been bitten by a radioactive spider or survived a close up experience with a nuclear weapon. I bet the new movie is going to use the Ultimate FF version, a form of teleportation that involves traveling through parallel dimensions temporarily.
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Jul 7, 2014 07:10
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Skwirl posted:My point was getting powers from "cosmic rays, while in a low earth orbit" makes a lot less sense when we have people walking around who've been to the loving moon (the FF didn't even get that far in their first trip) and came back fine. I don't know anyone who's been bitten by a radioactive spider or survived a close up experience with a nuclear weapon. Honestly my problem with the FF origin needing an update isnt so much that people have been to the moon and came back fine (after all, other people have died attempting to get into orbit, so its not like its 100% safe), its that "He didnt put radiation shielding in the ship" now makes him look like a massive idiot. "There is a lot of radiation in space, and radiation bad" is literally high school science now. Of course it wasnt in 1961, but nowadays it hardly makes Reed seem like a supergenius. I didnt hate the update of the origin for the movie to be honest. Admittedly every other part of the movie was loving dreadful, but they managed to update the origin okay.
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Jul 7, 2014 10:24
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Stop over-thinking the FF's origin and the whole sliding timescale thing.
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Jul 7, 2014 10:29
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To be honest I think the most dated super-origin of all is the X-men. They used to be "children of the atom", but even after they introduced the "x-gene", the idea of a single gene that has no real reason for appearing giving people so many ridiculous powers is pushing suspension of disbelief way further than is advisable. "Hey guys, I have a gene in me and now I can control gravity." I wonder if that's part of why the Inhuman thing happened.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:53
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That's really no more ridiculous than any of Lee's (or Kirby's or whoever) sciencey origin stories.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:58
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I think the sheer scale of it makes it sillier.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:04
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Lurdiak posted:To be honest I think the most dated super-origin of all is the X-men. They used to be "children of the atom", but even after they introduced the "x-gene", the idea of a single gene that has no real reason for appearing giving people so many ridiculous powers is pushing suspension of disbelief way further than is advisable. "Hey guys, I have a gene in me and now I can control gravity." Celestials put the X-gene as a sleeper thing in pre-humans to start awakening and activating later.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:11
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Oh poo poo, I totally forgot about that. That actually does make it easier to swallow.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:13
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Did they make that the official explanation or is it only an Earth X thing?
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Jul 7, 2014 13:23
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muscles like this? posted:Did they make that the official explanation or is it only an Earth X thing? They did it in the Apocalypse origin comic IIRC. He got his powers from a celestial and became the first mutant. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 13:35
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muscles like this? posted:Did they make that the official explanation or is it only an Earth X thing? 
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Jul 7, 2014 14:21
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Fantastic 4s origin just needs to be updated to them traveling to the negative zone instead of space. Isn't that what the Ultimate version was?
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Jul 7, 2014 14:51
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Dacap posted:Fantastic 4s origin just needs to be updated to them traveling to the negative zone instead of space. Isn't that what the Ultimate version was? Something like that, it definitely wasn't a spaceship. Also, I'm pretty sure that recent mentions of their origin say that Reed built faulty radiation shielding, not that it was nonexistent.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:08
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they don't really need to update the origins, I mean Marvel time makes no sense anyway so who cares how out of date the origins are.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:29
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CharlestheHammer posted:they don't really need to update the origins, I mean Marvel time makes no sense anyway so who cares how out of date the origins are. Non-comic readers might be confused about someone in their 20s being alive during the space race.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:34
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In UFF it was a teleporter to the negative zone. I think a spaceship still works better, but just make it so they're going through a wormhole or testing a warp drive or something
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Jul 7, 2014 16:00
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Just have Reed's revolutionary new radiation shielding alter the radiation in such a way that, instead of just exploding their cell membranes, it gives them superpowers. You could have the first movie be about the Fantastic Four trying to keep the shielding technology out of the hands of Doom, who wants to use it to create an army of super-powered soldiers.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:03
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Lurdiak posted:Non-comic readers might be confused about someone in their 20s being alive during the space race. If that stumps them then oh boy are they in for a ride. Especially if they ask how marvel time works, well it doesn't but you know what I mean.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:14
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If you start applying real-world physics, chemistry and biology to comic books, the list of things that make no sense or are literally impossible is neverending and encompasses almost everything ever printed in a comic book. It is just not a path one should wander down. To enjoy superhero comics you have to suspend your disbelief and ignore anything you know about science or how the universe works.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:28
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SiKboy posted:Honestly my problem with the FF origin needing an update isnt so much that people have been to the moon and came back fine (after all, other people have died attempting to get into orbit, so its not like its 100% safe), its that "He didnt put radiation shielding in the ship" now makes him look like a massive idiot. "There is a lot of radiation in space, and radiation bad" is literally high school science now. Of course it wasnt in 1961, but nowadays it hardly makes Reed seem like a supergenius. A few things have used that revised version of the FF's origin and saying they got caught with their pants down by the worst onslaught of cosmic radiation ever is a good compromise. If I was rebooting the Fantastic Four, I'd have Reed predicting a gamma ray burst that would boil off half the planet and he goes into space to try to shield the planet. No one believes him so he recruits his friends to help but it's a suicide mission where they knows the shielding for the passengers probably won't hold. Fill in the obvious blanks and you've got an origin that makes them worldwide heroes before becoming the FF. It helps bridge the transition a bit more cleanly, Reed isn't an idiot, and the Thing gets a bit more pathos ("Woe is me! People love me for saving them and reject me for my appearance! Why didn't I die in space?"). Poor Sue and Johnny are always going to be the loose end of the origin, though.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:19
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I disagree, I think Reed knowing that it is his fault that this happened to his loved ones is an important part of his character. Sorry for the million pictures, had to take them from panel view off my phone. From the first issue of Mark Waid's F4        
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Jul 7, 2014 19:52
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So the solution is, hire Mark Waid as a consultant right the gently caress now. But then this would end up in the film. 
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Jul 8, 2014 00:39
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Rhyno posted:So the solution is, hire Mark Waid as a consultant right the gently caress now. I understand they already have a Mark consulting for them...
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Jul 8, 2014 00:49
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Metal Loaf posted:I understand they already have a Mark consulting for them... Oh good, the Thing is gonna be a rapist and the Human Torch a pedophile.
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Jul 8, 2014 00:54
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Q: Why am I supposed to hate Rick Remender this time?
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Jul 8, 2014 04:08
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Some people think Black Jet is 14 for some reason? I'm getting this fourth-hand from Mark Waid's twitter though.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:13
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I heard somebody write into the iFanboy podcast about her age when she hooked up with The Falcon in the last issue of Cap, but I, like the people on the podcast can't remember her being presented as a kid (e: at the end of the arc), though maybe there is something in there. I know he was on the planet for ten years. Pretty sure the was 'adult' at the end of it. Mr. Maltose posted:She looked like 8~10 when Steve first broke out with the baby in Cap, but a major issue is that asking a comic book artist to draw a child is such a crapshoot she might have been 5 or 15. That'd make her around 20 with the time that passed, right? e: Oh man some of the linked stuff in here http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2014/07/falcon-jet-scene-in-captain-america-22-sparks-calls-for-remenders-firing/. Internet! Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 04:18
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She looked like 8~10 when Steve first broke out with the baby in Cap, but a major issue is that asking a comic book artist to draw a child is such a crapshoot she might have been 5 or 15.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:23
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Mr. Maltose posted:She looked like 8~10 when Steve first broke out with the baby in Cap, but a major issue is that asking a comic book artist to draw a child is such a crapshoot she might have been 5 or 15. In the very issue in question she mentions being 23
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Jul 8, 2014 05:24
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Senor Candle posted:I disagree, I think Reed knowing that it is his fault that this happened to his loved ones is an important part of his character. The thing is that Waid is pretty much the only guy to approach the origin from that direction. It's a terrific idea and it works brilliantly, but if no one is going to use that characterization for Reed then you might as well let it go.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:17
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I'm reading Daredevil End of Days after finishing Bendis's DD run last night. Does Milla Donovan get un-blind between these two runs? She certainly doesn't act blind in EoD.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:52
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Unmature posted:I'm reading Daredevil End of Days after finishing Bendis's DD run last night. She's just very well adapted to being blind.
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Jul 8, 2014 14:06
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bobkatt013 posted:In the very issue in question she mentions being 23 She's not exactly human and was vat-grown, she could be 2 and it wouldn't really be an issue, would it? Like, no one would argue a girl making out with Ben Reilly was a pedophile just because he's technically 5? It's not like she looks or acts like a child or even a teen.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:10
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Lurdiak posted:She's not exactly human and was vat-grown, she could be 2 and it wouldn't really be an issue, would it? Like, no one would argue a girl making out with Ben Reilly was a pedophile just because he's technically 5? It's not like she looks or acts like a child or even a teen. Well they show her as a child when Ian was a baby, and time moves differently so she lived 23 years.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:14
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bobkatt013 posted:Well they show her as a child when Ian was a baby, and time moves differently so she lived 23 years. I totally forgot about them showing her as a child. I kinda assumed she stepped out of a tube full grown. Still, if she's 23 now, I don't know what people are complaining about. It's not a Layla Miller situation where she went from 10 to 25 in a week from her lover's point of view, and I seem to be one of the few people who was even creeped out by that.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:16
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Wouldn't the most creepy one be the female Green Lantern who willed herself older so she could get with Hal Jordan?
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Jul 8, 2014 17:55
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Madkal posted:Wouldn't the most creepy one be the female Green Lantern who willed herself older so she could get with Hal Jordan?
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Jul 8, 2014 18:56
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