Combat Mission : Red Thunder - Goon vs Goon open thread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Combat Mission : Red Thunder - Goon vs Goon open thread.

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Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

Perestroika posted:

Dang, that's quite a bit. Most of the time it's probably a better deal to just go with a Panther for a bit more than twice that and get far better mobility, survivability and some MGs in the bargain with only a fairly negligible loss in AT-capability. Unless you know for a fact that you'll have a boatload of IS-2s coming to rush you over an open field at ranges >2km or something.

Makes more sense if it's not a meeting engagement and you are on the defensive, yah (Which we might just get to see, although it will probably be the Soviets defending).

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:09

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# ? Jun 18, 2024 10:40

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

McGavin posted:

Who wants to see things like competence and a decent fight? I only want to see some imaginary Nazis get slaughtered and the accompanying shitstorm in the German thread when unwantedplatypus drives them straight into the meatgrinder.

No worries, unwantedplatypus is standing his ground.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:11

Velius: Feb 27, 2001

unwantedplatypus posted:

Soviet Plan : They have a pretty damned good plan, which I don't like. They are attempting to flood the town with infantry while their IS-2s pin us down and stop our armor from advancing. T-70s and T-34s are providing infantry support.

Our Plan We need to get those IS-2s to retreat. If the AT team can make them back off, then they'll have done their job. YGMIR should keep his panther safe from the IS-2s while getting a line of fire into the town. The surviving tanks in the town should gently caress off to the north away from the IS-2s lines of fire. If we can keep the tanks we have alive, we should be able to take on the T-34s and the T-70s without much of a problem. MGs should hammer the infantry out in the open. I'm not sure if mortars will force the IS-2s to retreat, but I will leave that up to TonySnow's discretion.

How are we going to beat them?: We will turn this into a siege. We have the south and the west. This means we should take the north as well and pressure them from 3 fronts. They have very little armour in the north and they won't be able to move the IS-2s across a ford as long as we have YGMIR's panther.

poo poo that cannot be hosed up : We cannot lose another tank

What happens if we do lose more tanks?: We withdraw and save our forces for the next battle.

This is the trouble with the German team. "Our plan is to maybe do some really vague things. Here are no specifics, no map references, no images, no orders to even individual companies. Maybe we can wish the IS-2s away or something, I don't know."

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:13

Sindai: Jan 24, 2007; i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Has one of these games been attack/defender before? I'm looking forward to that.

When the Germans come back for round 2 they're going to bring all of the heavy armor and AT they can possibly get their hands on.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:17

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

Velius posted:

This is the trouble with the German team. "Our plan is to maybe do some really vague things. Here are no specifics, no map references, no images, no orders to even individual companies. Maybe we can wish the IS-2s away or something, I don't know."

Ahaha, that's just precious. "We only need to take the area where the objective is as well as literally all of the russians. From there it'll be easy".

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:31

Shadow gamer: Jul 24, 2008; I PASSED UP A BARGAIN

Willie Tomg posted:

I refuse to believe that at 10+minutes they're still in their spawn.

This game is the definition of dramatic irony.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:39

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Fat Samurai posted:

No worries, unwantedplatypus is standing his ground.

Good. Use your aggressive feelings, unwantedplatypus. Let the incompetence flow through you.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:43

Frank Starman: Nov 22, 2007

By now Barracuda probably realizes he can push Platypus around and get his way on any German planning.

I feel a bit bad for Platypus. Poor lad's in way over his head.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:53

Sindai: Jan 24, 2007; i want to achieve immortality through not dying

The Soviet thread literally posting "wait a minute, their equivalent of Herpicle is in charge."

# ? Jul 21, 2014 21:56

ShinyBirdTeeth: Nov 7, 2011; sparkle sparkle sparkle

Platypus is trying to answer the age old conundrum: can you devise a plan so bad that the enemy is confused into defeat?

# ? Jul 21, 2014 22:16

Affi: Dec 18, 2005; Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

I've never played the game before but why are half the german army backtracking?

# ? Jul 21, 2014 22:43

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

Affi posted:

I've never played the game before but why are half the german army backtracking?

That's a very good question.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 22:45

Vorpal Cat: Mar 19, 2009; Oh god what did I just post?

Perestroika posted:

Ahaha, that's just precious. "We only need to take the area where the objective is as well as literally all of the russians. From there it'll be easy".

Oh its worse then that, I think there planing on trying to take the town south of the objective. You know the place that's got multiple tanks an MGs pointed at it and where Herp wants call in all of his artillery.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 22:46

vanity slug: Jul 20, 2010

Vorpal Cat posted:

Oh its worse then that, I think there planing on trying to take the town south of the objective. You know the place that's got multiple tanks an MGs pointed at it and where Herp wants call in all of his artillery.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 22:46

OpenlyEvilJello: Dec 28, 2009

I know we've got a nice narrative going on in here about the Germans, but I think it's a little unfair to place all of the blame on unwantedplatypus. In particular, he was initially opposed to any engagement south of the river:

unwantedplatypus posted:

We cannot hold that knoll against a concerted Russian attack. They can hit it from two sides with the cover of forests. Any units supporting that knoll would be exposed.

We will lose any fight we try to start south of the river. This is non-negotiable. They have more cover and more concealment. Plus they can block off any units trying to retreat by shooting through the 12/13/14 lines. Any units that take the knoll do not have any valid avenues of retreat.

edit: ^^^ Show me one post, one post, that advocated we sit around in our start area. Saying we should wait until the fords stop exploding from enemy arty doesn't count.

This of course does not absolve him from failing to put together a coherent, comprehensive plan of attack.

Obs thread favorite Bacarruda is not exactly infallible either:

Bacarruda posted:

There are five advantages to sending a company(-) and the HMG platoon to the G15 ridge.

One, there are escape routes. We can safely fall back behind the ridge if we need to abandon the position or redeploy troops to the village. We can also pop smoke to cover our movements. We don�t have to hold that position forever. We just have to hold long enough to interdict the Russian crossing. That�s five to ten turns, max.

Two, it is dominant ground. The Russians have cheap tanks. They will have a lot of tanks. We have fewer tanks, but we have good guns, excellent optics, and (if we want to spend the points) we can upgrade our Panther crews to �experienced� or �veteran.� We also have excellent HMGs. If we can stage a long-range ambush on them as they ford, we can hammer them as they cross. If we put an FO up there, we can bring even more pain.

Three, we can neutralize their overwatch. If we smoke the their L11 to L16 treeline (or even just parts of it), we can blind their overwatch and limit their situation awareness as they head to the fords. If they advance to clear our smoke, they�ll be exposed and we can engage them in the open.

Four, it�s an insurance policy. If the Russians decide to ignore the town and simply blitz our spawn, a small force on the G15 ridge will at least hold them off long enough to let us adjust our plan.

Five, it may disrupt their plans and cause confusion we can exploit. The appearance of a threat on the Soviet's flank will force the Russians to divert troops from their main attack. That allows us our men in the village more time to dig in. Once we�re in the houses and our tanks have ambush sites in the village, we will be very hard to dislodge. Then, we can reinforce our advance troops more easily.

--

Deploying troops there comes with some risks, yes. But I think a temporary deployment there early in the game is a good option.

The threat of Russian artillery will not let us immediately push infantry through the fords. Tanks + riders can make it. Everyone else is too bloody slow to outrun a delayed-action Russian barrage.

So, our infantry can sit waiting for the barrage to clear or it can be useful early in the game by taking that ridge.

While the core idea of "put some overwatch and interdiction forces in a commanding position over the Soviet fords in the early game" is solid, he pushed for diverting an entire (slow, infantry) company there, reducing the chance they made it into position in time to hinder the Soviet crossing and increasing the time and fatigue cost of repositioning them once that mission was done. He also made a bad (if not entirely unreasonable) call holding back forces for fear of a Soviet artillery barrage on the fords.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:05

Terrifying Effigies: Oct 22, 2008; Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up.

Vorpal Cat posted:

Oh its worse then that, I think there planing on trying to take the town south of the objective. You know the place that's got multiple tanks an MGs pointed at it and where Herp wants call in all of his artillery.

The way things are going, Herp's going to use his idiot-savant powers and utterly vaporize the German advance with his point barrage on that street corner.

Capt Herp Brannigan posted:

If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:09

Green Intern: Dec 29, 2008; Loon, Crazy and Laughable

The Merry Marauder posted:

Dumping Herpicle's load on IGGLYBUFF is premature, embarrassing, and will end in awkward protestation. I write this confident I have just described someone's Pokemon porn.

Can I just say how disappointed I am that these aren't Fords Mustang, Thunderbird, Edsel, etc? "I mortar Ford Fiesta" would be pretty cathartic, tbh.

The Soviet thread continues to deliver fun.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:19

Neophyte: Apr 23, 2006; perennially; Taco Defender

Affi posted:

I've never played the game before but why are half the german army backtracking?

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:31

ThisIsNoZaku: Apr 22, 2013; Pew Pew Pew!

Neophyte posted:

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

loving incredible.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:39

Execu-speak: Jun 2, 2011; Welcome to the real world hippies!

Velius posted:

Yeah, the difference in command is clear from the starting forces, and cascades onward. At this point in the war the Panzer IV is practically obsolete, and yet they brought two of them, with predictable results. The T-34-85, much less the IS-2s, can penetrate them from the front at long-to-extreme range, with the IS-2s practically immune to return fire save from the rear. While the Panthers are excellent tanks (and almost immune to frontal penetrations from the T-34-85s and the IS2s) they're extremely vulnerable to side hits, having just 40-50mm of armor, comparable to the Panzer IV.

Sorry but that's just wrong, the IS-2 could kill the Panther frontally from over a km away.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:55

Dirt Worshipper: Apr 2, 2007; Paralithodes Californiensis

Neophyte posted:

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

Goldmine.

I cannot wait for the infantry fighting to begin. Russian SMGs are stone cold murder in this game.

# ? Jul 21, 2014 23:55

Velius: Feb 27, 2001

Execu-speak posted:

Sorry but that's just wrong, the IS-2 could kill the Panther frontally from over a km away.

I played World of Tanks for too long, debating the minutia of penetration tables versus biased testing versus inferior alloys and poor welding is a route to madness. We can see that the IS-2 hit the Panther in the upper glacis plate in game, which is the hardest part to penetrate, and failed to do so. The crew panicked and bailed, though. I wonder how trained they are. The point was that while the Panthers are very capable, cruising around with the side armor exposed to the enemy positions is silly.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:04

Frank Starman: Nov 22, 2007

OpenlyEvilJello posted:

I know we've got a nice narrative going on in here about the Germans, but I think it's a little unfair to place all of the blame on unwantedplatypus. In particular, he was initially opposed to any engagement south of the river:

This of course does not absolve him from failing to put together a coherent, comprehensive plan of attack.

Obs thread favorite Bacarruda is not exactly infallible either:

While the core idea of "put some overwatch and interdiction forces in a commanding position over the Soviet fords in the early game" is solid, he pushed for diverting an entire (slow, infantry) company there, reducing the chance they made it into position in time to hinder the Soviet crossing and increasing the time and fatigue cost of repositioning them once that mission was done. He also made a bad (if not entirely unreasonable) call holding back forces for fear of a Soviet artillery barrage on the fords.

This is a fair assessment. While I think poor platypus has failed to lead his side and is opting instead to react to the situation instead of commanding his troops effectively, Barracuda, perhaps not unreasonably, practically mutinied against direct orders, which led to platypus completely reversing his plan. The German strategy has looked rather schizophrenic from start to finish.

Overall, the German command structure is a mess and if I was a German platoon leader I wouldn't know what the hell orders to follow for what purpose.

Neophyte posted:

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

Brilliant.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:06

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

Velius posted:

I played World of Tanks for too long, debating the minutia of penetration tables versus biased testing versus inferior alloys and poor welding is a route to madness. We can see that the IS-2 hit the Panther in the upper glacis plate in game, which is the hardest part to penetrate, and failed to do so. The crew panicked and bailed, though. I wonder how trained they are. The point was that while the Panthers are very capable, cruising around with the side armor exposed to the enemy positions is silly.

I thought the turret hit on the Panther was from the T-34 on the river, not from one of the IS-2s. There were pictures of what a Panther looks like after taking a shot from the IS-2's main gun either in this thread or in the Soviet one, it was just a bunch of twisted wreckage.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:17

Saint Celestine: Dec 17, 2008; Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.
- Saint Sabbat, Lessons; Grimey Drawer

Feinne posted:

I thought the turret hit on the Panther was from the T-34 on the river, not from one of the IS-2s. There were pictures of what a Panther looks like after taking a shot from the IS-2's main gun either in this thread or in the Soviet one, it was just a bunch of twisted wreckage.

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:25

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

Saint Celestine posted:

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html

Yeah, that's the link I was looking for. It had to be the T-34 that hit the Panther's turret because the IS-2 can through and through a Panther's turret according to those pictures.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:29

Rexim: Jun 2, 2006; I wants flies in on a dragons, okay?

Velius posted:

I played World of Tanks for too long, debating the minutia of penetration tables versus biased testing versus inferior alloys and poor welding is a route to madness. We can see that the IS-2 hit the Panther in the upper glacis plate in game, which is the hardest part to penetrate, and failed to do so. The crew panicked and bailed, though. I wonder how trained they are. The point was that while the Panthers are very capable, cruising around with the side armor exposed to the enemy positions is silly.

Why did that Panther catch on fire after the crew bailed? I thought the hit didn't penetrate.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:55

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Rexim posted:

Why did that Panther catch on fire after the crew bailed? I thought the hit didn't penetrate.

I'd imagine that shells don't need to penetrate for stuff to get wrecked inside. Impact shock is a bitch.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:58

Saint Celestine: Dec 17, 2008; Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.
- Saint Sabbat, Lessons; Grimey Drawer

Rexim posted:

Why did that Panther catch on fire after the crew bailed? I thought the hit didn't penetrate.

Spalling is a bitch.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 00:59

Pierzak: Oct 30, 2010

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Nobody would be foolish enough to do a full charge to spawn, not even me.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Combat Mission : Red Thunder - German Thread: Literally bigger fools than Herpicle

The Merry Marauder posted:

2) Why the hell would they set up an ambush on Mars?

With how the game is going, I'm not sure it's a codename :ohdear:

German thread, please come back to this planet.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 01:11

lizurcainnon: May 5, 2008

Rexim posted:

Why did that Panther catch on fire after the crew bailed? I thought the hit didn't penetrate.

The hit penetrated; Grey points it out at ~1:25 in the Turn 10-11 Russian update.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 01:26

gohuskies: Oct 23, 2010; I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.

Rexim posted:

Why did that Panther catch on fire after the crew bailed? I thought the hit didn't penetrate.

The IS-2 shot it twice - the first shot scared the crew or damaged it enough that they bailed, a second shot in the next turn lit it up.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 02:08

Grey Hunter: Oct 17, 2007; Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

What I find interesting is that the Russians have lost a lot of troops with their own mistake - running their troops through that ford all bunched up. The Germans could so easily put two full, and undamaged, companies into the village by now.

Also, complaining that the Germans are "Gaming" it by ordering a barrage on a key point - its not like either side ordered a turn 1 heavy barrage on or around the spawn, and they only targeted one of the fords.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 06:17

Execu-speak: Jun 2, 2011; Welcome to the real world hippies!

Velius posted:

I played World of Tanks for too long, debating the minutia of penetration tables versus biased testing versus inferior alloys and poor welding is a route to madness. We can see that the IS-2 hit the Panther in the upper glacis plate in game, which is the hardest part to penetrate, and failed to do so. The crew panicked and bailed, though. I wonder how trained they are. The point was that while the Panthers are very capable, cruising around with the side armor exposed to the enemy positions is silly.

Both hits penetrated. Grey points the first penetration out in the video. The second hit brewed it up.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 06:28

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

Neophyte posted:

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

Yep, this belongs in the OP.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 07:16

Gniwu: Dec 18, 2002

Neophyte posted:

Well, you call your preplanned in.

You push your right flank out.

You pull your Panther in and it takes the southern route.

You do the platypokey and then turn your troops around.

That's what it's all about.

Oh my god~

# ? Jul 22, 2014 11:25