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Sniep
Mar 28, 2004

All I needed was that fatty blunt...



King of Breakfast

Malcolm XML posted:

:clint:

how bigs ur network

about 13,000 servers

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pram
Jun 10, 2001

ahmeni posted:

why are you being so goddamn verbose when you should just be saying use Puppet and Splunk

lol ok grandpa more like ansible and logstash

pram
Jun 10, 2001
lets just shell out half a million for a splunk license - an idiot

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
i know nothing about ansible but it's not written in ruby so it can't be that bad

pram
Jun 10, 2001
yeah it owns

Rahu
Feb 14, 2009


let me just check my figures real quick here
Grimey Drawer

Mr Dog posted:

Fedora because it uses GNOME 3 by default and doesn't try to "fix" it in stupid ways

imho GNOME 3 is far and away the prettiest looking desktop out there at the moment and that's including OSX

perhaps not the most functional (although it Suits My Needs) but definitely the prettiest
Is there any way to make alt tab work in a not-stupid way in gnome 3? I like it apart from that but its super annoying.

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Rahu posted:

Is there any way to make alt tab work in a not-stupid way in gnome 3? I like it apart from that but its super annoying.

Go into Settings, and then the Keyboard page, and switch the Keyboard shortcut from "Switch Applications" to "Switch Windows". And then there's some additional switches in gnome-tweak-tool about Alt-Tab and grouping and previews.

Rahu
Feb 14, 2009


let me just check my figures real quick here
Grimey Drawer
Thanks :tipshat:

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

ahmeni posted:

why are you being so goddamn verbose when you should just be saying use Puppet and Splunk

splunk is really good but also prohibitively expensive for most things

puppet is fine but it's not the only choice. i don't really care what you use. any cfg mgmt is better than no cfg mgmt. even if it's bcfg2. (but i'll refuse to work for you if you make me touch bcfg2, gently caress you)

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Berkshire Hunts posted:

splunk has the most irritating license model. realtalk bsd what are you using for your log centralization?

the place i mentioned with huge volume was doing it all with homebrew code

at my current job it's logstash writing into a pretty good-size elasticsearch cluster. much simpler.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Mr Dog posted:

Fedora because it uses GNOME 3 by default and doesn't try to "fix" it in stupid ways

imho GNOME 3 is far and away the prettiest looking desktop out there at the moment and that's including OSX

perhaps not the most functional (although it Suits My Needs) but definitely the prettiest

fedora also ships the "kde spin," an installer that sets all the defaults to kde out of the box.

this is a much more pleasant setup for normal human beings who don't want to ~*~ revolutionize human/computer interaction ~*~ while they get email and write code

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the place i mentioned with huge volume was doing it all with homebrew code

at my current job it's logstash writing into a pretty good-size elasticsearch cluster. much simpler.

Elk stack is cool as hell

cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001

we use graylog2 backed by elasticsearch it's nice

crazypenguin
Mar 9, 2005
nothing witty here, move along

why oh why is this not the default?

of course, this doesn't help me since i'm using unity.

anyway, as a desktop linux user of 10 years, alt-tab is probably the thing I hate the most right now. one the one hand, that seems spoiled, since it used to be poo poo like having to compile audio drivers from source. on the other hand, this hits me multiple times EVERY DAY ARRRHGH

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

crazypenguin posted:

why oh why is this not the default?

of course, this doesn't help me since i'm using unity.

anyway, as a desktop linux user of 10 years, alt-tab is probably the thing I hate the most right now. one the one hand, that seems spoiled, since it used to be poo poo like having to compile audio drivers from source. on the other hand, this hits me multiple times EVERY DAY ARRRHGH

stop using terrible poo poo

instead, install kde or xfce and get on with your day. it's like magic: you start kde and it has all of the normal interface touches you expect

buttons in the right place. alt tab behavior that works. a clock. a start menu. shocking!

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

crazypenguin posted:

why oh why is this not the default?

no idea.

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

never install kde

Forums Terrorist
Dec 8, 2011

graph posted:

never install kde

or at least wait until 5 comes out so your eyes don't melt

Rahu
Feb 14, 2009


let me just check my figures real quick here
Grimey Drawer

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

stop using terrible poo poo

instead, install kde or xfce and get on with your day. it's like magic: you start kde and it has all of the normal interface touches you expect

buttons in the right place. alt tab behavior that works. a clock. a start menu. shocking!

Until KDE 5. Then it will be broken for a couple years before it's usable again.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Rahu posted:

Until KDE 5. Then it will be broken for a couple years before it's usable again.

kde has split the project into pieces, and for kde "plasma" 5, the desktop piece, it looks like they actually intend for it to be working and useful on day one.

http://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma5.0/

it is lookin' pretty fancy. i won't actually use it until it is packaged by debian though

pram
Jun 10, 2001
never use kde

ahmeni
May 1, 2005

It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.
Grimey Drawer
puppet is not the only choice but its one of the better choices because your management stuff should be a description of what a server should look like, not a bespoke set of scripts

pram
Jun 10, 2001
ansible is declarative fuckerb1tch

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Rahu posted:

Until KDE 5. Then it will be broken for a couple years before it's usable again.

kde 5 works, but right now it's more like a release preview since a lot of the nice things they were showing off aren't actually done yet.

it already looks and feels 1000 times better than kde 4 though.

ahmeni
May 1, 2005

It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.
Grimey Drawer

pram posted:

ansible is declarative fuckerb1tch

gently caress am i thinking of chef

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

ahmeni posted:

gently caress am i thinking of chef

puppet, chef, and ansible are all declarative to some extent. puppet is just the most consistent about it

pram
Jun 10, 2001
deploying anything with an agent is terrible. especially a ruby one lmao

ahmeni
May 1, 2005

It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.
Grimey Drawer
ruby is basically awful and i am currently fighting against a dumb rvm issue because rvm is garbage and rubygems are garbage and this entire system was built from piss

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

pram posted:

deploying anything with an agent is terrible. especially a ruby one lmao

uploading all of the code you intend to use, on every run (literally every five minutes!) is even worse.

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 24, 2014

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

ahmeni posted:

ruby is basically awful and i am currently fighting against a dumb rvm issue because rvm is garbage and rubygems are garbage and this entire system was built from piss

fortunately the fact that puppet and chef are built on ruby will never affect the end user. chef, inc and puppet labs both ship self-contained packages that don't touch system ruby or require you to mess with gems

pram
Jun 10, 2001

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

uploading all of the code you intend to use, on every run (literally every five minutes!) is even worse.

lmfao you are dumb as hell. what kind of puppet module do you have that does something every 5 minutes

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

pram posted:

lmfao you are dumb as hell. what kind of puppet module do you have that does something every 5 minutes

the norm is to run those agents every five minutes, so that you have enforcement and auditing and reporting, not just a one-off configuration. for remote command execution and deployments and poo poo, you use mco/pushy/salt/ansible, not a cfg mgmt agent.

that's one of the issues with ansible: it doesn't know exactly what it is.

pram
Jun 10, 2001
no that is dumb, why the gently caress would you run puppet every 5 minutes. who is logging into your system to change stuff after its been deployed

either way if you're not masterless it still has to check the manifest so youre wrong. puppet is still basically doing everything ansible does over the network

pram
Jun 10, 2001
and if it is masterless then youre not enforcing poo poo

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

pram posted:

no that is dumb, why the gently caress would you run puppet every 5 minutes. who is logging into your system to change stuff after its been deployed

idiot sysadmins, and worse, developers

it doesn't matter how many "This file was installed by puppet. Local changes will be reverted" preambles you stick at the top of configs

pram posted:

either way if you're not masterless it still has to check the manifest so youre wrong. puppet is still basically doing everything ansible does over the network

uh no. it's not uploading megs of code on every run. and it knows when its manifest is unchanged.

for perspective, the chef runtime is 130 MB. that's all data you're not uploading. i don't have a puppet system at hand right now but it ain't far off.

pram
Jun 10, 2001
ansible doesnt upload itself lol it opens an ssh connection

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

pram posted:

ansible doesnt upload itself lol it opens an ssh connection

yeah, and anything it runs on the other side has to be uploaded. for instance, the cfg management system.

pram
Jun 10, 2001
you are so profoundly dumb. ansible is idempotent just like puppet checking its manifest. it still has to connect to the master and check the hash, just like ansible

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pram
Jun 10, 2001

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

yeah, and anything it runs on the other side has to be uploaded. for instance, the cfg management system.

no

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