Rock Climbing: Where there's a wall, there's a way

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > The Great Outdoors > Rock Climbing: Where there's a wall, there's a way

Sharks Eat Bear: Dec 25, 2004

CoasterMaster posted:

While we're on the subject of outdoors, I've got some noob questions. I've been climbing for about 6 months now, top rope only. In a couple weeks, I'm taking a lead class at my gym (loving finally got around to it, lead climbing looks so badass). Anyway, once I feel confident leading, is there anything else I need to know before going outside to a real rock? I was hoping that learning to lead and getting good at that would at least let me do some of the easier single-pitch sport routes, but I'm not 100% sure if that's all I need (I'm guessing there's more to it than 'whelp you're outside now'). I can confidently climb 5.10- routes and do 5.10/5.10+ routes on a good day (and yes, I realize the past few posts were about how gym grades don't matter and yes my gym does 5.10-/5.10/5.10+ instead of a/b/c/d).

first, read this and really absorb it even if it all sounds obvious at first: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0a/05/c5/0a05c5520c438a662ce5ad4182202a08.jpg i've never climbed in WA, but pretty much across the world you'll be amazed at people's (even fellow climbers') poor manners and habits at crags. don't be one of them!

second, as others have mentioned, i would strongly recommend going with someone who can mentor/guide you around. even if you 'know' how to lead, climbing outdoors is very different than in the gym.

i'd recommend starting with some TRs before leading, so you can get accustomed to the rock, and even TRing any routes you plan on eventually leading first. also, as others have said, definitely adjust your expectations. if you're maxing out at 5.10+ in the gym, you should be happy to get up some 5.7-5.8s and VERY happy to get up 5.9s (in general; can vary from crag to crag and gym to gym). in general, bolts are much more spaced out outdoors, and often times the consequences of a lead fall on easy terrain can actually be more severe, as easier climbs tend to have a lot of ledges that you could deck onto.

you need to know what to do when you get to the anchors, both as the first climber to set up the anchor, and as the last climber to clean it. it's also good to be aware of different types of fixed anchors, as you can encounter entirely different rigs from crag to crag, and even from climb to climb within a crag. you can read about this online or in various books, but there's a lot of dubious/lovely info out there (including in this very thread!) and it's best to have an experienced partner who can show you the rop -- the correct way to do things.

this is a good article, regardless of gender, as it illustrates how many considerations should go into any outdoor climbing trip, which just highlights the importance of having a mentor to learn from. it's a pretty good list, too http://www.chickswithpicks.net/considerations-in-making-the-transition-from-indoor-to-outdoor-climbing/

lastly, you'll probably hear plenty of people say "just go for it, that's how i learned!" or something to that effect. you probably could just go for it and wind up uninjured and learn that way, but i think it's a bad approach. it'll drag out the learning curve, as you don't know what you don't know, and given the importance of risk assessment in climbing (at all levels) i think starting off your outdoor climbing life with a capricious decision like "gently caress it i'm just gonna figure it out while i'm up there" sets a bad and potentially dangerous precedent for your future self!

Sharks Eat Bear fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 2, 2015

# ? Jul 20, 2014 00:12

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 18:00

TotallyUnoriginal: Oct 15, 2004; Damnit bob

Ideally, you'll want to be as self sufficient as possible in case of any problems that come up. Learn stuff like rappelling and cleaning before making an outdoor trip or have someone there who can teach you while on the trip. Most of the time a basic lead class won't teach you things like that so check for any additional advanced courses that they may offer.

Also, I'm assuming you can TR 5.10- in your gym. Like Sharks Eat Bear says, be happy with 5.7-5.8 and be a bit careful about going for stuff like 10s when leading outdoors. There is a huge variance in difficulty when leading a route compared to doing it TR and then there's going to be an even bigger jump when doing it on a route outdoors.

# ? Jul 20, 2014 02:19

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

spwrozek posted:

Will be climbing at little Eiger in the morning if anyone wants to join us from the Denver area.

No pictures but we had fun. Climbed 2-9's and a 10a. Starting to feel my strength come back which is nice after a winter off.

# ? Jul 20, 2014 06:33

reddeathdrinker: Aug 5, 2003; Scotland the What?

There's at least another 2 NE Scotland goons here, so i can make it 3! I do around 90% trad, 10% sport climbing, based out of Aberdeen. I'm happily ticking along at leading HVS/E1 (on a good day!), and 6a/6b sport. Do a spot of winter climbing as well - that's what Lochnagar is for!

Some new sport routes up by Longhaven

# ? Jul 20, 2014 07:54

pokie: Apr 27, 2008; IT HAPPENED!

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

Info:

*Avoid top-roping directly off the chains so as to prolong the life of the chains.

Useful stuff, but what does the quoted statement mean? I.e. what are chains for?

# ? Jul 20, 2014 17:22

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

pokie posted:

Useful stuff, but what does the quoted statement mean? I.e. what are chains for?

They're the fixed anchors, the top of the climb.

You clip quickdraws into them, just like any other bolt. Except that when you're done on that route, you can use them to rappel without leaving any gear behind.

# ? Jul 20, 2014 17:34

asur: Dec 28, 2012

Speleothing posted:

They're the fixed anchors, the top of the climb.

You clip quickdraws into them, just like any other bolt. Except that when you're done on that route, you can use them to rappel without leaving any gear behind.

To further clarify, the difference is that when lowering someone the rope moves resulting in wear on whatever piece of gear is carrying the load, whereas when rappelling the rope doesn't move at all and thus there is no/minimal wear. Picture below of an anchor that with a lot of wear presumably from lowering.

# ? Jul 20, 2014 18:31

alnilam: Nov 10, 2009

Can anyone recommend a good squeezy grippy thing for building forearm/grip strength?

I've had to be out of climbing for a while and still have to for a few months. Meanwhile I'd like to rebuild my grip and forearm strength a little.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 14:14

gamera009: Apr 7, 2005

alnilam posted:

Can anyone recommend a good squeezy grippy thing for building forearm/grip strength?

I've had to be out of climbing for a while and still have to for a few months. Meanwhile I'd like to rebuild my grip and forearm strength a little.

Captains of Crush. Don't forget to exercise the opposing muscles. Extensions are even more important, and harder to recover if there's an injury.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 15:10

alnilam: Nov 10, 2009

gamera009 posted:

Captains of Crush. Don't forget to exercise the opposing muscles. Extensions are even more important, and harder to recover if there's an injury.

Thanks! Could you elaborate a little, or give me some terms to google for? I've never explicitly "worked out" those muscles before since i was climbing anyway.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 15:14

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

alnilam posted:

Can anyone recommend a good squeezy grippy thing for building forearm/grip strength?

I've had to be out of climbing for a while and still have to for a few months. Meanwhile I'd like to rebuild my grip and forearm strength a little.

A tennis ball and some rubber bands.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:26

TotallyUnoriginal: Oct 15, 2004; Damnit bob

alnilam posted:

Thanks! Could you elaborate a little, or give me some terms to google for? I've never explicitly "worked out" those muscles before since i was climbing anyway.

Rice Buckets!!!!!!!

# ? Jul 22, 2014 17:05

gamera009: Apr 7, 2005

alnilam posted:

Thanks! Could you elaborate a little, or give me some terms to google for? I've never explicitly "worked out" those muscles before since i was climbing anyway.

Exercise opening your hand/extending fingers. It's never good to overdevelop your grip as you can tear the tendon easily if you have no strength in the opposing muscles.

Just get a bunch of rubber bands and put them around your fingers when they're closed. Open up fingers as if opening your palm like a flower. Close and repeat.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 17:53

French Canadian: Feb 23, 2004; Fluffy cat sensory experience

PYF bouldering slang:

Sun's out, guns out
Spoons, not forks

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:35

jackchaos: Aug 6, 2008

I love obnoxiously yelling DAB

# ? Jul 23, 2014 09:54

Sharks Eat Bear: Dec 25, 2004

alnilam posted:

Can anyone recommend a good squeezy grippy thing for building forearm/grip strength?

I've had to be out of climbing for a while and still have to for a few months. Meanwhile I'd like to rebuild my grip and forearm strength a little.

squeezy grippy things are generally worthless for improving finger strength for climbing; the vast majority of climbing has very little to do with being able to squeeze. you can search around mountainproject and climbing training blogs for more details if you want, but basically, squeezing those things isn't going to make you stronger.

that said, there might be some benefit for injury prevention, or for using the grip trainers as a warm up, e.g., en route to a crag where you'll have little opportunity to warm up on the rock, but even these uses are kind of dubious and not necessarily the best way to achieve either objective

if you're trying to stay in climbing shape without being able to climb, the best tool is really a hangboard. there are a variety of DIY tutorials on how to mount a hangboard to a doorframe pull-up bar (and even a pre-assembled one you can buy called blankslate). conventional wisdom is that you shouldn't hangboard until you're an advanced climber, already sending 5.12, etc. because the risk of injury is too high and time can be better spent training technique. this is bad advice because 1) hangboarding is probably the best injury prevention exercise, as long as you are thoughtful and careful about your approach (i.e., don't start off hanging full body weight on crimps and 2-finger pockets), and 2) although technique is hugely important, finger strength is likely the ultimate limiting factor in development and it makes sense to start training it sooner than later. training finger strength is also not mutually exclusive with training technique. you can hangboard and also do technique exercises at the same time, and even in the same workout!

if you really don't have any way to mount a hangboard, then door frames can be a substitute. the same principle stands around not using your full body weight. if you can't rig a pulley system to remove weight, you can even try standing on a chair to take some of the weight off of your fingers. the main exercise you should be focused on are NOT pull-ups (again, mostly worthless for climbing training) but called "repeaters" (again, search around for more info)

this is probably more info than you were looking for, but it's important to have realistic expectations, and if you want to maintain climbing strength without climbing, a grip trainer is not going to do anything for you

# ? Jul 24, 2014 20:00

Sigmund Fraud: Jul 31, 2005

alnilam posted:

Can anyone recommend a good squeezy grippy thing for building forearm/grip strength?

I've had to be out of climbing for a while and still have to for a few months. Meanwhile I'd like to rebuild my grip and forearm strength a little.

Developing eccentric strength is kinda pointless to a climber since all we use is isometric strength. Hence a ball or some other grip device won't do you much good. Get a hangboard if you wish to increase muscle fiber recruitment and improve your strength, but realize you should already have a good base before starting (you should at the very least be a solid 7a climber). Also keep in mind that muscular strength will increase much much quicker than the strength of your tendons. So take it easy the first year or so. Be sure to train your antagonists and throw in some contact strength as well so don't just go for the crimp holds on the board.

# ? Jul 24, 2014 20:06

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

French Canadian posted:

PYF bouldering slang:

Sun's out, guns out
Spoons, not forks

oblig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JPpM1nFLAE

# ? Jul 25, 2014 15:39

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

Ranma posted:

oblig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JPpM1nFLAE

Wish a climber would say to him that's not how you belay.

# ? Jul 26, 2014 16:00

Sharks Eat Bear: Dec 25, 2004

this is the far superior stupid meme* video.

http://vimeo.com/m/35036855

*i think it's hilarious but that's probably not cool huh :ohdear:

# ? Jul 26, 2014 17:12

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

this is the far superior stupid meme* video.

http://vimeo.com/m/35036855

*i think it's hilarious but that's probably not cool huh

That one is definitely better. Alex Honnold is so amazing. :swoon:

e: While we're posting videos here is a nice one of some super irresponsible soloing. This one appeals to me doubly because like Jack Geldard I spent some of my formative climbing years soloing at this crag (though a couple of decades later and a few grades lower). Also Almscliff is arguably the birthplace of bouldering as a separate discipline, and was in general super important to the development of early British climbing standards and ethics.

http://vimeo.com/44194136

big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 26, 2014

# ? Jul 26, 2014 21:25

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

Just got back from climbing lovers leap. Super nice 5.9 slab climbing. Nice and secluded due to the 40 min hike in. At the top of one route a lady at the top of the cliff asked if I knew what I was doing....I said of course. Well worth the trip out (no road noise!)

# ? Jul 26, 2014 21:29

gamera009: Apr 7, 2005

spwrozek posted:

(no road noise!)

Peter Beal would be proud of you.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 14:39

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

Got out to east Colfax yesterday. It was a pretty cool time. If you have lead climbers looking to start check it out since there are 5.4-5.9 a plenty. One super fun 5.9 there as well.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 15:19

MiamiKid: Dec 14, 2003

Anybody done much climbing in the Tetons? Some friends and I are visiting next week, and was looking for recommendations in terms of food/climbing/rest day activities. Our goal right now is to hit some class 4/easy 5 to get acclimated at the start of the week, easy 5 in the middle and finish with an ascent of the Grand via Owen Spalding at the end of the week.

# ? Jul 28, 2014 15:47

Radical 90s Wizard: Aug 5, 2008; ~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~

Got a shoe question i was hoping some of y'all could help with.

I bought a pair of 5.10 Coyotes just over 2 months ago. Since then I've been using them regularly about 2 or 3 times a week climbing indoors. This weekend I noticed that on one shoe, one of the buckles has started to wear and has torn halfway through the inch or so of material holding it to the shoe.

I'm planning on taking them back and trying to get a replacement pair, because as far as I can tell there is no way this should be happening 2 months in. I was just wondering what you guys thought, since this was my first pair of climbing shoes. Would you consider this normal "wear & tear"? The 3 other buckles on the pair of shoes are fine, with just minor abrasions/wear.

These shoes:

http://fiveten.com/products/footwear-detail/10089-coyote-vcs-canvas-indigo

e] yea I still had the receipt, shoebox etc, so proving the date won't be an issue.

Radical 90s Wizard fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jul 29, 2014

# ? Jul 29, 2014 05:34

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I would think that's within warranty. Particularly since it's only the one buckle.

Even assuming you're shooting low on your estimates, that's only around 30 days climbing on the shoes, and not a place where a shoe usually wears out. Hopefully you'll be able to prove that you bought them recently.

Ed: particularly with indoor climbing there ought to be little to no 'wear' on the upper, since you will rarely if ever stick them into cracks.

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 29, 2014

# ? Jul 29, 2014 05:43

modig: Aug 20, 2002

big scary monsters posted:

That one is definitely better. Alex Honnold is so amazing.

I totally thought you were hinting at a Honnold Cameo

# ? Jul 29, 2014 16:00

Manstrocity: Apr 28, 2009

Do we have any Seattle climbers? I'll be in the area in September and have 23/24 (Tuesday/Wednesday) free if anyone can meet up.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 01:54

Tarnien: Jul 4, 2003; Champion of the World!!!

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Got a shoe question i was hoping some of y'all could help with.

If you can return them, go for it. But if not, I've had that happen plenty of times on various shoes and I always just tape them back together (climbing tape) and it works fine. Just wrap around it 4-5 times and it should stay together.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 06:34

spwrozek: Sep 4, 2006; Sail when it's windy

Any Denver folks want to climb Saturday morning?

# ? Aug 1, 2014 03:02

gamera009: Apr 7, 2005

spwrozek posted:

Any Denver folks want to climb Saturday morning?

Busy, but we've been hitting BRC on M/W.

This evening Discomancer straddled the rope. He described the resulting testicular discomforting as "raisining."

# ? Aug 1, 2014 04:45

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

spwrozek posted:

Any Denver folks want to climb Saturday morning?

Next weekend? Going caving tomorrow

# ? Aug 2, 2014 00:17

CoasterMaster: Aug 13, 2003; The Emperor of the Rides; Nap Ghost

I got a thing today! Lead climbing owns. Holy poo poo it's so fun, but Goddamn are my arms tired now.

Manstrocity posted:

Do we have any Seattle climbers? I'll be in the area in September and have 23/24 (Tuesday/Wednesday) free if anyone can meet up.

I climb in Seattle, but I'm out of town that week

CoasterMaster fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Aug 2, 2014

# ? Aug 2, 2014 04:09

Unoriginal Name: Aug 1, 2006; by sebmojo

CoasterMaster posted:

I got a thing today! Lead climbing owns. Holy poo poo it's so fun, but Goddamn are my arms tired now.

I climb in Seattle, but I'm out of town that week

sup stone gardens buddy. Ballard or Bellevue?

# ? Aug 2, 2014 11:17

CoasterMaster: Aug 13, 2003; The Emperor of the Rides; Nap Ghost

Unoriginal Name posted:

sup stone gardens buddy. Ballard or Bellevue?

I go to the Ballard one 2-3 times per week. I try to go to the Bellevue one every once in a while because it's just so drat nice.

# ? Aug 2, 2014 16:45

Solly: Mar 21, 2005; That's a side effect of the marijuana poisoning.

I'm looking for some new shoes since apparently you don't need to break your toes to have an effective climbing shoe any more. Are these shoes with padded heels as much of a gimmick as they look? Seems like the padding wouldn't last that long and it would make using your heels more difficult.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 14:53

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

What shoes with padded heels? I've never heard of such a thing.

Personally, I'm in love with the Katana, and it's brother-from-another-mother, the Vapor V.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 15:55

jackchaos: Aug 6, 2008

I've recently become a fan of my normal sizing of the 5.10 moccasins for trad and buying a size or half size smaller then that for bouldering mainly so that they are tight enough that they don't slip off doing heel hooks.

# ? Aug 3, 2014 17:21

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 18:00

Tarnien: Jul 4, 2003; Champion of the World!!!

Looks like I'll be in Denver for 5 days in late September. I'll have probably 2-3 days to climb. Any recommendations for good outdoor bouldering circuits? It'll be me and the GF, so as dense with as wide a range of difficulties as possible. Can probably drive/hike 2-3 hours in any direction. Also, anywhere in Denver/Boulder rent crash pads or guidebooks?

# ? Aug 3, 2014 18:18

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